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  1. #1
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Martin Logan ESL

    OK, today is the day that I always hear guys talk about. The day they first heard a pair of electro-stat speakers, and fell in love.

    A local shop in town are brokering a deal with Martin Logan. As a result, they've had a pair of ESL's for approx. 2 weeks. They told me that they were still playing with placement and room treatment, so I didn't expect much.

    Lucky for me, they chose the analog room to set them up. I ran out to the car and grabbed the new Sonny Rollins re-issue I just bought. Onto the $15K Linn table it went.

    BAMM!!!

    I've never heard anything so amazing in my life. Not only was Rollins in the room, he was right up in my face, the mouth of his horn in my ear. I've never felt so close to a recording. The bass was plenty. The connected sub was turned off and I didn't want to hear it.

    The only drawbacks I could see was the bass was a bit unfocused. Natural and present, but not very accurate. This was coming from TOTL MacIntosh. I suspect room treatment had much to do with this. They had a few bass traps in the room, perhaps these needed a shift.

    The other was the sweet spot seemed very specific, and small. If I moved more than 2 or 3 feet in either direction, everything changed.

    Anyhow, I'm sold. IMO, anyone who criticises these is either nuts, deaf or not heard the full potential. Simply amazing. I am halting production on my horns now.

    MMG, here I come!! BTW guys, how is the ESL and MMG different?

  2. #2
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Pops there is a big difference between ML's and Magnepans. They are totally different sounding. I feel the ML stats have a more airy delicate sound where as the Maggies have more weight to their sound. And if you like to listen to a lot of rock music with a lot of heart pounding bass you will be disappointed in the MMG's unless you use a sub. And you will run into problems with poorly recorded music and the small sweet spot of Maggies. With ML stats I always feel like I'm surrounded by sound where ever I am in the room, not so with Maggies.

    I would give a listen to the MMG's before you purchase them. And don't compare them to the 1.6's because they are leagues apart. I would look for a used pair of MG12's if you decide you like the MMG's.
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  3. #3
    Charm Thai™
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    Agreed...Magnepans and Electrostatic speakers are much different. Some of the ML models blend the panel with the woofer better than others but I've always preferred their sound over Maggies.

    I came so close to picking up a set of SL3's when i was shopping for speakers about 10 years ago. In the end i chose something else but I know i would have been more than satisfied with them.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    I heard a pair of ML's back in the 90's and was very impressed with them, can't remember which model since I don't follow their speakers that close but they were powered by some McIntosh gear and they sounded good to me. They did seem to have a wider sound stage and imaging than magnepans in my opinion. Could of been a placement issue and room issue but that was my opinion. The ML's also seemed to be more dynamically capable, maybe not as much as a higher end pair of Dynaudio's or Paradigms but still better than Magnepans. But also I do understand that most owners of magnepan speakers are not interested in loud dynamics and are willing to have less bass for the benefits to Magnepan speakers. But these experiences are limited to a high end shop and not living with them and being able to change things as I see fit to effect their sound, so my opinion probably does not hold as much weight as someone who has owned these products and have got the best out of them.

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  5. #5
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Rollins in the room, he was right up in my face, the mouth of his horn in my ear.
    Sounds like you got rather 'intimate' with the musician... Some people listen to music and some people date... perhaps you need to get out of the house for a bit

    Seriously though, be careful about converting to Maggies... While I was MIGHTY impressed with the Stats I've heard... I was MIGHTY disappointed with the Maggie MG12s... Totally different sound (as the others have pointed out), so you need to be sure that Maggies are for you....

    And by all accounts Stats and Vinyl should be pure magic... Enjoy....

  6. #6
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Magnepan makes the MMG with the intention of enticing buyers to move up in the line. The Maggy's without ribbon tweeters are not in the same league as those with. Maggy's with ribbons are closer in sound to ESL's. For all those who have heard the 1.6's the 3.6R's are an order of magnitude better. I'm not dissing the 1.6's. I recommend them to anyone who likes the sound of Maggy's. The new 1.7's sound quite interesting and I'm looking forward to hearing a pair. I could live with the 3.6's and not feel much if any loss from my ESL's.

    Wait till you hear ESL's on tubes!

    I don't know which model ML's you heard. The smaller models cross over to the bass at too high a frequency for me. This is something that E-Stat has mentioned. It's because of the different radiation patterns of cones versus panels. The cone woofer being essentially omni directional and the ESL panels being di-polar. I use 80Hz as a crossover point and two subs are still almost a necessity.

    If you get a chance give a listen to ESL's from other manufacturers. They all have the ESL sound and all sound slightly different. A pair of Quad ESL57's would work very well with your SE-40. Add a good sub and I mean good. You could consider the TL subs I built from the plans published on the Pass Labs DIY site. They are cheap, deep and loud.

    Some things to consider are; (all used of course)
    Quad ESL 57 and 63
    Martin Logan CLS-2
    Acoustat Spectra series
    The above can be bought for fairly reasonable cost. Bear in mind what I've listed almost require one or more subs.

    Yes the sweet spot is small. however when you're in it there's no comparison with anything else.

    With Maggy's or "stats" you will hear exactly what is on a recording.
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  7. #7
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    Martin Logan all the way.....

    I've heard various models of Martin Logan and Magneplaner speakers over the years and it's always the M.L. that I enjoy listening to the most. I can still recall listening to the M.L. Sequel 2, with Adcom CDP, and Adcom Amplification. It was one of the most musical systems I've ever heard and this was back in the early to mid 90's. Whatever shortcomings the ML may have I know I would be able to get over it.....just need the space enough to put them in.

  8. #8
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Shame about the MMG. I didn't realise the difference between Mags and ML would be so great. I need to do some listening. Closest dealer of Magnepan is in Toronto. Once I have the amp, I'll head over for the day...

  9. #9
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Shame about the MMG. I didn't realise the difference between Mags and ML would be so great. I need to do some listening. Closest dealer of Magnepan is in Toronto. Once I have the amp, I'll head over for the day...
    I'll be interested to hear your thoughts... That dealer should have the MG12s and the 1.6... That's actually the same dealer I auditioned the MG12s at....

  10. #10
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeRoy
    I've heard various models of Martin Logan and Magneplaner speakers over the years and it's always the M.L. that I enjoy listening to the most. I can still recall listening to the M.L. Sequel 2, with Adcom CDP, and Adcom Amplification. It was one of the most musical systems I've ever heard and this was back in the early to mid 90's. Whatever shortcomings the ML may have I know I would be able to get over it.....just need the space enough to put them in.
    Nice to hear an Adcom believer out there. I know there are a lot of options out there but Adcom is still a good amp which ever way you shake the bucket. And to boot they are running speakers that are supposed to be hard to drive. And I am not saying that my Adcom is a Odyssey Khartego but it is a nice amp for the year it was made and the class of high end it was intended to serve. I know people call Adcom bright or not up to driving high end speakers but I see it as I sold them for years and they can drive good speakers and do a good job of keeping up the high end sound. Now people upgrading into the thousands of dollars equipment you can bet it will beet Adcom will hell it better if your willing to spend that much it better leave tracks as it blows by the Adcom stuff I have but when the day is done I am still proud of Adcom for what they give me at the price I paid for it.

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  11. #11
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    OK, today is the day that I always hear guys talk about. The day they first heard a pair of electro-stat speakers, and fell in love.

    A local shop in town are brokering a deal with Martin Logan. As a result, they've had a pair of ESL's for approx. 2 weeks. They told me that they were still playing with placement and room treatment, so I didn't expect much.

    Lucky for me, they chose the analog room to set them up. I ran out to the car and grabbed the new Sonny Rollins re-issue I just bought. Onto the $15K Linn table it went.

    BAMM!!!

    I've never heard anything so amazing in my life. Not only was Rollins in the room, he was right up in my face, the mouth of his horn in my ear. I've never felt so close to a recording. The bass was plenty. The connected sub was turned off and I didn't want to hear it.

    The only drawbacks I could see was the bass was a bit unfocused. Natural and present, but not very accurate. This was coming from TOTL MacIntosh. I suspect room treatment had much to do with this. They had a few bass traps in the room, perhaps these needed a shift.

    The other was the sweet spot seemed very specific, and small. If I moved more than 2 or 3 feet in either direction, everything changed.

    Anyhow, I'm sold. IMO, anyone who criticises these is either nuts, deaf or not heard the full potential. Simply amazing. I am halting production on my horns now.

    MMG, here I come!! BTW guys, how is the ESL and MMG different?


    I remember the first time I heard Innersound electrostatics with an SACD player. I had a bamm moment. Those moments fuel the hobby.
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  12. #12
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    i own MMGs

    and have spent MANY hours listening to ML ReQuests driven by adcoms 5400and 5500 in my friends system. my system with the MMGs is driven by a 555II. bright is not a descriptive term to describe the sound of the adcoms.

    that fallacy was emitted by people who never heard them. they are smooth, flat and POWERFUL. when i went from the adcom 565 preamp to the audio research sp3a1, the great sound of the arc came right through.

    poppa, a pair of MMGs is a bargain and good to have in the house, you may never want to let them go, even if you get some 'stats later. i use a hsu sub with mine with VG results.

    MLs are good, acoustats are worth seeking, quad a bit pricey, as are sound labs. i have never owned ESs but would if the opportunity was good. i was here in socal during the heyday of the infinity servostatiks with their infamous modification of the week.

    i DID own infinity monitor juniors which were a pretty good system, dome tweets/mids/cone woof tight and flat to 30hz.

    good luck on this quest.
    ...regards...tr

  13. #13
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hifitommy
    and have spent MANY hours listening to ML ReQuests driven by adcoms 5400and 5500 in my friends system. my system with the MMGs is driven by a 555II. bright is not a descriptive term to describe the sound of the adcoms.

    that fallacy was emitted by people who never heard them. they are smooth, flat and POWERFUL. when i went from the adcom 565 preamp to the audio research sp3a1, the great sound of the arc came right through..
    that is exactly what I have thought as well. I have a 545 series 2 and love it. It is powerful, very smooth and while I know there is better out there I am quite happy with the results I have had with Adcom on several system that I have had or peoples systems that I sold them back when I worked in a better audio shop in the 90's. They are great and I have never had bad results running any speaker I have come across with them. Hell the 555 that you have running your MMG's even has come back out as the 555se which has upgrades to its power supply and capacitance among other things but basically it is the same which says to me that it still has a following. Plus Adcom stuff can be had at very cheap prices used.

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  14. #14
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I'm in total agreement with you guys on adcom. My Adcom GFR receiver is smooth, powerful and neutral. It drove my 1.6's to extreme loud levels with no problems.

    Pops, the only problem I see with the MMG's for you is that they need a sub and they probably won't do the trick for you with your taste in Music.
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  15. #15
    RGA
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    The difference is sound and price. There are no stats in the maggie 1.7 and down price points. The 3.6 and 20.1 are priced like Stats and IMO are totally and completely and utterly outclased in every possible way.

    Your initial reaction to ML is not surprising - it was the same for me - the trouble with them over time has always been driver integration. However, you can clean this up with room placement and choosing wisely the front end gear. The new SummitX I auditioned at CES with Mystere amplifier (under $5k for preamp and power amp) and the sound was better than I have ever heard from Martin Logan - EVER - it was absolutely fantastic to listen to. They cost something like $14,000 the same as the 20.1 - to me it's not a contest.

    But here's the thing - another terrific panel is called the Prince II from King Sound and they're just $6000 a pair. They IMO destroy the 20.1 and 3.6 for less than half the price. Unlike most electrostats they have a unique designs which allows them some actual punch and bass dynamics without sounding like a ribbon or having that heavey thumpy sound like the 20.1.

    I take a beating for stating my opinion but listen to the 20.1 and the Prince II before you attack me and I'm pretty sure you'll agree. The 1.6 is a great deal because it's something like $1700 and there's no other panels at that price.

    Interestingly the Prince II was amazing for $6k but the King is only $8k and has even more bass response. From a big panel guy and a guy who owned several planars over the years - Doug Schroeder bought the King's and I'm not a panel guy and even I think I could live with the Prince II. If only I can find space for them!!

    "The gap between the membrane and signal plate has been reduced by 1/3rd! Thus, the excursion, or amplitude of the membrane’s travel is drastically reduced, resulting in a much higher efficiency, lower distortion, and faster response. Having heard many planars utilizing diaphragms several feet long, I can assure you that the King, to my ear, sounds more lithe and quick than any “full sheet” planars, ESL or otherwise, that I have heard."

    http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=513

  16. #16
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Comparing ML's and Magnepans is like comparing apples to oranges. They have totally different sound and presentation. I find the ML sound to be pleasant but unnatural. The sound is very open, airy and transparent but there is no meat to it if you will. I find it too airy and transparent. The Maggies present a very live sound and more natural sound. Just my take on it. Every one hears things differently. The Audio Perfection store where I bought my maggies also sells ML and they sell a lot more Maggies than ML and they all prefer the Maggie sound over the ML sound.
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  17. #17
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    The difference is sound and price. There are no stats in the maggie 1.7 and down price points. The 3.6 and 20.1 are priced like Stats and IMO are totally and completely and utterly outclased in every possible way.

    Your initial reaction to ML is not surprising - it was the same for me - the trouble with them over time has always been driver integration. However, you can clean this up with room placement and choosing wisely the front end gear. The new SummitX I auditioned at CES with Mystere amplifier (under $5k for preamp and power amp) and the sound was better than I have ever heard from Martin Logan - EVER - it was absolutely fantastic to listen to. They cost something like $14,000 the same as the 20.1 - to me it's not a contest.

    But here's the thing - another terrific panel is called the Prince II from King Sound and they're just $6000 a pair. They IMO destroy the 20.1 and 3.6 for less than half the price. Unlike most electrostats they have a unique designs which allows them some actual punch and bass dynamics without sounding like a ribbon or having that heavey thumpy sound like the 20.1.

    I take a beating for stating my opinion but listen to the 20.1 and the Prince II before you attack me and I'm pretty sure you'll agree. The 1.6 is a great deal because it's something like $1700 and there's no other panels at that price.

    Interestingly the Prince II was amazing for $6k but the King is only $8k and has even more bass response. From a big panel guy and a guy who owned several planars over the years - Doug Schroeder bought the King's and I'm not a panel guy and even I think I could live with the Prince II. If only I can find space for them!!

    "The gap between the membrane and signal plate has been reduced by 1/3rd! Thus, the excursion, or amplitude of the membrane’s travel is drastically reduced, resulting in a much higher efficiency, lower distortion, and faster response. Having heard many planars utilizing diaphragms several feet long, I can assure you that the King, to my ear, sounds more lithe and quick than any “full sheet” planars, ESL or otherwise, that I have heard."

    http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=513
    I can't say I disagree with what you've said. I do have a couple of points to make. I was speaking of buying a pair of used whatever's. For most of us here buying used is an option that gets serious thought. I may be wrong, but as far as I know you have never suggested any used products ever. Do you have a problem with used gear?
    For a lot of posters here $2000 is a lot of money. It seems that once someone starts reviewing and getting gear for free or damn near free their attitude about what is a bargain really changes. Reviewers just don't live in the real world as far as purchasing gear goes. I'm not trying to insult or denigrate you or your recommendations. However, you as a reviewer seem to fail to understand that saying a $6000 a pair speaker is amazing and it's $2000 more expensive bigger brother is better means nothing to most buyers. Remember $2000 is still a lot of money to many people. For $6000 or $8000 they should be fu**ing fantastic and a bag of chip's. You reviewers with all the perks and free gear you get would do well to remember that.

    There are lots of bargains on the used market. For anyone interested in ESL's or any panel I suggest taking a look at Audiogon.
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  18. #18
    music whore Happy Camper's Avatar
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    With a matched M-L sub they are very musical. I have a 5.1 HT of M-L and am thrilled everytime I hear it. Yes they are lighter than dynamic speakers but are also much less fatiguing in long listening sessions.
    d HC b

  19. #19
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Camper
    With a matched M-L sub they are very musical. I have a 5.1 HT of M-L and am thrilled everytime I hear it. Yes they are lighter than dynamic speakers but are also much less fatiguing in long listening sessions.

    Camper I bet that sounds amazing. I would love to see some pics of your set up. Maybe you can invite me over to watch a movie. Problem is, with that set up I may never leave...

  20. #20
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Several people have said comparing Maggy's to ESL's is like comparing apples to oranges. I don't really agree with that. Comparing any dipolar transducer to any "monkey coffin" is where the apples to oranges analogy should apply. IMO comparing ESL's to planar magnetics to ribbons is comparing apples to apples to apples. There is an almost infinite (well 7500+ varieties) number of apple varieties. They are all apples. Just as any planar transducer is dipolar.

    When I heard my first Maggy's in 1976 it was the dipolar sound that sold me. I could get used to Maggy's (again), Eminent Technology LFT's or any planar. To me they are just different versions of "apples". The same applies to ESL's and ribbons including my Acoustats, E-Stats Sound Lab's and Florians Apogees.

    ESL's to my ears have more (less?) of that dipolar sound. Everyone has to listen and decide for themselves exactly what they want. There is one thing for certain. If you like the sound of a planar of any construction type "monkey coffins" will never satisfy you.
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  21. #21
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Several people have said comparing Maggy's to ESL's is like comparing apples to oranges. I don't really agree with that. Comparing any dipolar transducer to any "monkey coffin" is where the apples to oranges analogy should apply. IMO comparing ESL's to planar magnetics to ribbons is comparing apples to apples to apples. There is an almost infinite (well 7500+ varieties) number of apple varieties. They are all apples. Just as any planar transducer is dipolar.

    When I heard my first Maggy's in 1976 it was the dipolar sound that sold me. I could get used to Maggy's (again), Eminent Technology LFT's or any planar. To me they are just different versions of "apples". The same applies to ESL's and ribbons including my Acoustats, E-Stats Sound Lab's and Florians Apogees.

    ESL's to my ears have more (less?) of that dipolar sound. Everyone has to listen and decide for themselves exactly what they want. There is one thing for certain. If you like the sound of a planar of any construction type "monkey coffins" will never satisfy you.
    Funny you should say Joe. Not having the benefit of experiencing the full range of planars available, I can't say too much. I was quite shocked though at the idea that MMG's would be so far off the path from the ML's.

    Of course, critical listening and acoustic measurements would reveal differences, but I have a feeling that Joe is right about this. It's that whole dipole/bipole vibe that would be shared amongst all of these speakers. And when put against a typical ported box, fuhgedaboudit...

    I have been chatting with a fellow inmate for a few weeks now via email. Met him in the Speaker Asylum. He owns a Golden Tube SE-40 and runs Maggie's with it. He's quite certain he'll never need anything else.

    Feanor owns the 1.6, and I'm quite certain that Him and I will get together at some point. This will give me a good test run for the GT. If I like what I hear, I think I'll blindly buy the MMG's. They have a 60 day return policy right now, which is nuts!! For the cost, it seems crazy to buy used.

    Aside from that, the bulk of these speakers are out of my price range or out of my amp's league. If the planar route ends up a deadend, I will build a pair of frugal horns or open baffle. Oh who am I kidding, I'll probably build them anyways...

  22. #22
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Let your own ears decide PC. MMG's are designed by Magnepan to get you in the "door". That's why they have the liberal return and upgrade policy. I think they realize, if you like the MMG's you'll like the bigger and more expensive Maggy's even more.

    For me the 3.6R's are the ones to get. The Ribbon tweeter and size of the bass/mid panel get it right to my ears. Even then, if you listen to real world music a sub (or two) is recommended.

    With all that said, once the reviews come out on the 1.7's there will be a boatload of 1.6's for sale. The next couple of months will be the time to get a pair of used 1.6's. Were I in the market I would jump. The 1.7's being better than 1.6's and still less than $2K are gonna be really popular.

    Hey PC! Go on and get the MMG's. You know you wanna try em'. You got nothing to loose.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  23. #23
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Hey PC! Go on and get the MMG's. You know you wanna try em'. You got nothing to loose.
    It's looking like a 80% possibility. I have cleared a budget with my wife of approx. $800. Obviously, I don't want to spend it all if I don't have to. Yet another reason the MMG's are callin'. The return policy is another. If I buy used, realise for whatever reason I don't want them, and sell them, I'd be in hot water with my wife.

    I've basically told her this would be it for '10. Having to possibly take a loss on my purchase and then go back into the market would make her nuts. With Magnepan's policy, I would be out very little in relative terms, and still have enough of my budget to buy something decent.

    Lot's to think about. Of course, once I buy the MMG's, I will be sure to include you in my speech Joe.

    "...to thank God. But even more important than God, I'd like to thank Joe for showing me the path to audio greatness. I'm forever grateful. This is for you Joe!"

    Not sure what award that would be, but you're in the speech ok? BTW, check the box for some stuff. Just picked up Mingus Sextett w/Dolphy live in 64. Real energetic performance although the recording wanders back and forth from great to average. I'll be ripping it later...

  24. #24
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    I can't say I disagree with what you've said. I do have a couple of points to make. I was speaking of buying a pair of used whatever's. For most of us here buying used is an option that gets serious thought. I may be wrong, but as far as I know you have never suggested any used products ever. Do you have a problem with used gear?
    For a lot of posters here $2000 is a lot of money. It seems that once someone starts reviewing and getting gear for free or damn near free their attitude about what is a bargain really changes. Reviewers just don't live in the real world as far as purchasing gear goes. I'm not trying to insult or denigrate you or your recommendations. However, you as a reviewer seem to fail to understand that saying a $6000 a pair speaker is amazing and it's $2000 more expensive bigger brother is better means nothing to most buyers. Remember $2000 is still a lot of money to many people. For $6000 or $8000 they should be fu**ing fantastic and a bag of chip's. You reviewers with all the perks and free gear you get would do well to remember that.

    There are lots of bargains on the used market. For anyone interested in ESL's or any panel I suggest taking a look at Audiogon.
    I can't speak for other review publications but I don't get anything for free. I am "for" buying most things used. A reviewer will typically get an item at manufacturer or dealer cost - no better than that - and someone who buys used would pay the same amount so the reviewer's "deal" is that he will get a new item for the used price. Martin Logan is typically in the $6k-$25,000 price range. The Maggie 20.1 $14,000 so prices are relative which is why I mentioned the $6k Prince II. You could always look for a Prince II on the used market and you may get it for $2500 for all I know. That is why I am FOR used products.

    But I do not scour the internet everyday looking for 10 year old items to offer as a suggestion. Most stuff depreciates in a relatively similar fashion so if the starting price of the Prince II is $6k and the 20.1 is $14k then you would expect on the used market that the Prince II would STILL be cheaper than the Magnepan (which has more name brand appeal (for now) and would cost a used buyer like yourself more.

    The thing with a reviewer's discount is that the item thereviewer has is now an open box used piece of gear. Manufacturers who sell at their cost - well they all do it - that puts all manufacturers on the same playing field. In other words if ABC maker has a retail amp for $6,000 and the price to the reviewer is $3,000 then you can pretty much be sure that every amp that retails for $6,000 will run the reviewer between $2,000 to $4,000. This is typically what a non reviewer would pay walking into their local store's used selection or buying off of Ebay - probably paying less in fact.

    I would definitely buy amplifiers used if I were you. Speakers too but check them out. I would be a little more cautious with cd players.

  25. #25
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    OK, today is the day that I always hear guys talk about. The day they first heard a pair of electro-stat speakers, and fell in love.
    That happened in 1975 with Dayton-Wright XG-8s for me. Bought my first Acoustats in '77.

    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    I've never heard anything so amazing in my life. Not only was Rollins in the room, he was right up in my face, the mouth of his horn in my ear. I've never felt so close to a recording.
    Welcome to the club. They are giant condenser microphones at the other end of the transduction chain.

    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    The only drawbacks I could see was the bass was a bit unfocused. Natural and present, but not very accurate.
    What you are hearing is the discontinuity between the dipolar panels and the monopole dynamic woofer. Which is why I prefer full range electrostats. Those issues disappear (along with the sense of listing to equipment).

    rw

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