• 12-28-2003, 05:55 PM
    Smokey
    Looks like Axiom Mt3i blow away Paradigm Titans.
    Titans $220:6.5 woofer and 3/4 inch ceramic metal doem tweeter

    Axiom Mt3i $275 (include shipping): 6.5 woofer and 1 inch tweeter.

    This review is just in. I have always heard that Titans have a natural sound (no emphasis on highs or lows), and that migh work against their advantages.

    http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_121039_1594crx.aspx

    "I got a pair of Titans because I needed a set of rears for my home threatre system, which consist mostly of Axioms speaker. My current rears are Axioms Mt3i's. They are awsome and I wanted to used them instead for my bedroom setup.

    Having both sets at hand I decided to compare them with my HK receiver. Sound wise they don't compare. The Mt3i's are true audiophile while the Titans are LowPhile. The highs are for nothing crisp or clear, and it sharpness is a little pressing on the ears. The lows are like my Bose, a little mushy. The construction is on pare with my cheap Bose 201, with non removable grill."

    <img src="http://www.axiomaudio.com/img/prodpics/M3CherryPairGrillOff.jpg">
  • 12-28-2003, 08:20 PM
    RGA
    Actually I have yet to hear a speaker within $100.00 or so dollars that wasn't better than the Titan, so the fact that Axiom is better does not really say much about the Axiom and certainly doesn't surprise me that it beats the Titan. The lower end Paradigms are IMO unlisteneable to me and I would not own them at any price...other than to immedieately sell them. Things get better when you get to the Monitor 5, still would not crack my top 5 or 10 in that price range.

    The new Studio V3 line for the small time I spent with them seemed farily good though a little laid back in the treble. Need to hear them in a good set-up for further comment...likely better than the V2...but seemed a little lighter weight in the bass. If the treble has been improved that is a trade I would make.
  • 12-29-2003, 08:10 AM
    46minaudio
    Out of 178 reviews this speaker scored 4.49.IMO not bad..I am not disputing this review however I do have to ask Smokey what is it about this review that makes the other 177 null and void?Is this fellow some sort of golden ear wonder that has the last word in speakers(kinda like RGA)?Some would feel the Athenas would out preform the JBLs yet you thought otherwise...
    Here is a review done blind and with #s on the Titan vs other speakers in this price range..This review was done by Tom Nousaine
    http://www.paradigm.com/Website/Site...e/SI_Titan.pdf
    My point is listen for yourself.This Review and RGAs opinion means no more than the person that says they are worth 3x the price,..
  • 12-29-2003, 12:25 PM
    RGA
    The reasons some people's evaluations are more insightful than others is because some people have FAR moreexperience with far more speakers. It's fine for Joe Shmoe to love X speaker but if his comparison over the last 10 years is the stock radio in his car and and spending an hour listening to speakers with the wall-o-speakers at Wal-mart or Best buy then I'd rather read the experience of someone who has heard the world class reference speakers available.

    Blind listening is a good thing and obviously some people like the Titan. I and a whole ton of people don't. So the morale of the story is to go listen and find out.

    The problem with basing your buying decision on a statistical percentage is that YOU the actual person buying may not hear the way the majority oin a given test heard it. A sample size of two people who are FRIENDS of the reviewer tells me nothing about THEM. Maybe they tend to like bright shrill speakers and then the Titan would make sense to me as it's the shrillest of the ones on their list that I have heard. It is true perhaps that it is also the most extended. For home theater applications(which I have not heard them in) they may very well be the best of the lot. If it floats your boat go get em. But listen and be sure because you may actully have ears like Smokey or RGA or lots of opther people that listened to Paradigm but chose something else.
  • 12-29-2003, 06:01 PM
    46minaudio
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    It's fine for Joe Shmoe to love X speaker but if his comparison over the last 10 years is the stock radio in his car and and spending an hour listening to speakers with the wall-o-speakers at Wal-mart or Best buy then I'd rather read the experience of someone who has heard the world class reference speakers available..

    However Tom Nousaine is someone I trust (so much more than you) and does not fall in this category.



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    A sample size of two people who are FRIENDS of the reviewer tells me nothing about THEM. Maybe they tend to like bright shrill speakers and then the Titan would make sense to me as it's the shrillest of the ones on their list that I have heard.

    You seem to post about HI fi mag or some other I cant remember where they do blind testing.Does this hold true for them..It really tells me nothing other than they like speakers with a wet towel thrown over them..So who is right YOU,,.The mags you read,,Tom Nousaine..Who RGA...If you will read what I posted you will find I reccomend to try these out for yourself...
  • 12-29-2003, 08:22 PM
    RGA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 46minaudio
    You seem to post about HI fi mag or some other I cant remember where they do blind testing.Does this hold true for them..It really tells me nothing other than they like speakers with a wet towel thrown over them..So who is right YOU,,.The mags you read,,Tom Nousaine..Who RGA...If you will read what I posted you will find I reccomend to try these out for yourself...

    You are always very defensive about anybody that happens not to like a particular speaker you like or own. That aside you can like Tom Nousaine if you wish...he took two of his friends and had them review the speakers. That's great for some.

    Hi Fi choice is the magazine that reviews with a blind panel. Their site reveals smaller snippits of their magazine review but fairly informative. As soon as they ever get a Paradigm sent to them it'll be tough to say. The Studio series would probably fair pretty well. Interestingly the Atom and micr got the second worst rating of all the speakers reviewd by Home theater choice - who I believe, not 100% sure - also listen in blind panels. **1/2 out of five only beating a pair of sony speakers and losing to al the other bigger names. Their were more than a dozen tested and all the others did better. One of Pradigms center channels got 5 stars as did a sub if I recall. October or Novemeber issue.

    The Titam and Atom use the same tweeter and the Titan is bassier version but that's about it.

    And none of that is to say people will agree with those panels of listeners. I have differed with speakers those blind panels have raved about as well...largely because blind is not usually done long term which is a requirement for a valid session. The ones who live with the speakers for review only have that speaker usually so that doesn't help a lot either.

    I'm sure plenty of Paradigm Atom owners are quite happy and will disagree with Home Cinema Choice's opinions of the speaker, and there are some like me, who are put off by a speaker two people who know Tom Nousaine said they like best.

    Paradigm has a house sound that I don't particularly care for. I give them credit though for at least keeping their house sound so if it's what you like then it gets better and better as you move up to their higher end models. Reviewers and buyers are not the same. A Reviewer has to evaluate a speaker in terms of what they think buyers will like. (assuming it is even that honest). A buyer has to discern what they will want to listen to for the next several years...they all have compromises but I don't particularly like the Paradigm sound. What their upper end Studio series do they do well if you like it and I have given them very positive reviews. If someone asks for a speaker to do certain things I'll recommend certain Paradigm's. If they want something else then a different speaker is better suited. I don't just recommend the same speaker over and over and over and over for everyboody in all circumstances.
  • 12-29-2003, 08:30 PM
    RGA
    Actually Mr. 46minaudio

    This is not totally different from movies reviewing or people's taste in music. You either like what the film is doing or you don't. You believe an actor's performance or you don't. You think Rock has musical merrit or you don't like Skeptic.

    Obviously if you totally never play 80% of the world's music then your choice of speaker may dictate your purchase as well.

    It's called personal preference...people either like Paradigm's sound or they don't or they're somewhere in the middle or have a mixed view on them. No crime in that.
  • 12-29-2003, 10:17 PM
    Smokey
    ConsumerReports didn't like Titans either.
    CR total power response graphs (sorry no picture) pointed out frequency response problems for Paradigms. It seem that Titans had a bass boom in the 100-200Hz. octave that made male voices too heavy and its frequency linearity was not as smooth as other bookshelf speakers they tested. They noted:"Spike in mid-bass creates a boomy quality that may sound disturbing". (May '99 issue)
    So they only got "Ok" rating :)
  • 12-29-2003, 11:16 PM
    RGA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Smokey
    CR total power response graphs (sorry no picture) pointed out frequency response problems for Paradigms. It seem that Titans had a bass boom in the 100-200Hz. octave that made male voices too heavy and its frequency linearity was not as smooth as other bookshelf speakers they tested. They noted:"Spike in mid-bass creates a boomy quality that may sound disturbing". (May '99 issue)
    So they only got "Ok" rating :)

    The funny thing is a rise in the midbass is not that bad really. Most people buying the Paradigms are probably going to use them for movies or rock. Mid bass humps are not the worst thing in the world to add a little bit of warmth to thinner 70s recordings and of course explosions to movie soundtracks.

    Unfortunately not everyone buys speakers for movies and rock.

    The problem with measurements is that every speaker has a different measurements...even professional recording monitors from JBL and PMC may look flat but one may have a rise at 3khz the other will have a dip etc all the way through the graph. It is puzzling then to say flat is best...none are flat. They never discuss the "Relationship" between frequency points. You may have a pretty flat speaker and then a slight ever so slight dip at 2khz and a ever so slight rise at 4khz. How does that speaker compare to one that has more dips and doodles but is dead flat at those two points. Our ear hears a lot of these notes at the same time or right after eachother and may be more sensitive to the slight spike at the wrong frequency than a less than stellar graphed speaker the hits what we are sensitive too well.

    One look at the rather ugly graph of the Reference 3a MM De Capo compared to say the B&W N805 and your expectation will be that the N805 should be a much better speaker. If we put the graphs on the wall it moist certainly is. Of course the Driver integration problem of the N805 is not mentioned in those graphs and the lack of bass dynamics compared to the De Capo doesn't show up in those graphs, the metallic sounding high frequency does not show up in those graphs.

    The N805 may in fact be more accurate...but it isn't more accurate to sounding like music. And the N805 is one of the best standmounts for the money...it's overpriced IMO. The De Capo despite its flaws has chosen to use the flaws to their advantage by making it a cohesive sounding speakers. They use the midrange dip to create what many call the speakers "midrange magic." It is warm and it has a deepr soundstage than most and it has a big room filling sound and it's terrific. The designer built to his ear, he used the same measuring equipment available to anyone else and deliberately made his speaker with the graph it results in. Why? Because it sounds more right to the ear...and since Harman generally irritates a lot of people why make another retread. The whole point is to offer selections or variety to buyers.

    Pretty sad if the only restaurant was McDonalds because it's a proven bland formula. Too many fast-food like speakers - bland all sound similar and lifeless.
  • 12-30-2003, 03:41 AM
    Jimmy C
    I was using a pair of Titans...
    ...for about a year (before Studio 60s) with a Denon receiver. For the money, I thought they were pretty good - I always knew they were not the last word in speakers, but they were enjoyable with a wide variety of music.

    I never found the highs aggressive (I do have wall-to-wall) but the box seems to boom as the volume increases... this would be my biggest complaint about them. This does indeed impart a nasality on vocals - my BR1 kit is MUCH better in his regard. Actually, for $139, the BR1 is better in all areas.

    Never heard the Axioms, but the concensus is they are on the bright side... maybe the bass is shelved-back compared to the Titans.

    Strangely enough, the new Titans sound pretty freakin' good at my dealer - I never got mine to sound like that. If the new ones are better (and sound like they did in the store), they would definitely be worth the $220.
  • 12-30-2003, 08:12 AM
    kexodusc
    On Dec. 5th, long before this thread, I posted a review of the M3Ti's and compared them to my old V2. Titans....go look for yourself. IMO there is no comparison, the Titans are superior for most types of music. That being said, I still like my M3Ti's, but when you start to crank the volume and play something demanding like a classical score arrangement, don't expect them to keep up with the Titans. At lower volumes, like background room noise at a social gathering (say, elevator level) the M3Ti's actually sound a bit better than the Titans, though.

    As for this thread, let's say for the sake of diplomacy that at the very most the speakers differences are dependant on the listeners preference and reasonably equal. At 20% more price I expect much, much more from my Axiom's...they've put most of their effort into looks rather than sound with this edition.

    I think Axiom will prove to be a strong competitor at this entry level though, and hopefully will force other companies to improve their products and produce superior values.
  • 12-30-2003, 08:17 AM
    markw
    I don't think any well made speaker "blows away" any other well made speaker. It al boils down to what someone prefers.

    Now, if sheer verbosity of posting is what causes one speaker to "blow away" another, then I'd say that this might be true here. Lately, some seem intent on trying to "sell" their personal opinions (or vendettas, whatever) on the unsuspecting public as facts, which is NOT the case.

    It's simply an opinion and, like a$$holes, everyone has one. It's just that some seem to enjoy airing theirs in public.