• 08-26-2004, 02:52 PM
    nahmed
    Looking for a certain type of speaker
    First off, I prefer bookshelf speakers over floorstanding models. They are not as intrusive because the rooms in my house I use for audio are relatively small, and I am not worried to much about bass.

    I have listened to Paradigm Atom's, Titan's, and the Studio 20's. Obviously I think the Studio 20's had the best overall sound, but for me they were too laid back.

    What are some recommendations for bookshelf speakers on par with the Studio 20's as far as sound quality (I know that is subjective) but are more forward sounding.

    I am interested in any model, including kits that can be bought online, and am not worried about price as I won't be buying new speakers anytime soon, just want to know what is out there that would meet this criteria.

    thanks
    Nadeem
  • 08-26-2004, 06:17 PM
    topspeed
    B&W 603s3, JM Lab Chorus S, Green Mountain Europa, Von Schweikert VR1, Monitor Audio Silver, Energy Veritas 2.1, and that's just for starters. All of these are very good and worth an audition IMO.

    Hope this helps
  • 08-27-2004, 10:04 AM
    RGA
    I will post a review next week of several speakers - Two cheaper speakers I ran across the Dynaudio Audience 42 and the $549.00US Audio Note AX Two. The Latter is a steal IMO. Don't waste your time with the Paradigm's not even close and double the price. From the first half of track 11 on Dianna Krall's latest album I knew I was going to be in for something rather very exciting. At $700.00 Cdn it's ridiculously good with a very ful bodied sounding piano excellent and treble definition and extention and the vocals crisp and clear.

    Apparantely AN speakers reflected in room sound follows the direct firing sound by .5miliseconds - clear and clean vocals - which project forward without getting smudged.

    Go listen and compare them to any 1kUS Standmount - they don't look like much - non descript - but put the speaker of this size (small) on and many will be asking where the sub is. The Dane has a bit of this and was rather quite excellent on all counts but it's about double the price - and it's no better.

    The new series of Paradigm 100V3 is worse than the previous one - I kept wanting to turn the volume up to get them to sound good - they never did. For $2700.00 and for the thuddy bass these types of designs offer the AX Two is easily a superior speaker - you can hear cymbals better and make out voices a LOT better - and the 100 while it has MORE bass sounds like dreck. Don't be conned by the reviews --- You simply need to listen to these things directly against high end makers and you'll soon see errrr hear what can be done by people who care about music first and are not run by accountants.
  • 08-27-2004, 11:42 AM
    Woochifer
    If the Studio 20 is too laid back, then you should actually give the Mini Monitor an audition. Much more forward sounding, but you sacrifice the pinpoint imaging and the top to bottom balance that the Studio series gives you. But, they are a lot more refined in the midrange than the Atom and Titans, so it might be a good balance for your preferences. You should also give the Klipsch RB-35 and RB-25 a tryout. If forward sound is what you're looking for, then that's a good starting point.
  • 08-27-2004, 11:49 AM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    I will post a review next week of several speakers - Two cheaper speakers I ran across the Dynaudio Audience 42 and the $549.00US Audio Note AX Two. The Latter is a steal IMO. Don't waste your time with the Paradigm's not even close and double the price. From the first half of track 11 on Dianna Krall's latest album I knew I was going to be in for something rather very exciting. At $700.00 Cdn it's ridiculously good with a very ful bodied sounding piano excellent and treble definition and extention and the vocals crisp and clear.

    Well, all I can say is give the Studio 20 v.3 a listen for yourself. I don't remember the Dynaudios giving anywhere near the type of imaging that any of the Studio series models that I've heard do.

    And keep in mind that the original poster was looking for something that was MORE forward sounding, and in my listenings, the Danes definitely are not more forward sounding than any of the Studios. If the ANs are indeed more forward sounding than the 20s, then they are obviously worth trying out.

    Maybe for you, the Paradigms are a waste of time, but for me and probably for others, they very well might be the first choice.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    Don't be conned by the reviews

    Okay, I'll remember not to be conned when you post YOUR reviews of the ANs.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    You simply need to listen to these things directly against high end makers and you'll soon see errrr hear what can be done by people who care about music first and are not run by accountants.

    Last time I checked, none of the guys who run Paradigm were accountants. I care about music and I'm not an accountant, but that doesn't mean that I know how to design a better speaker than the ones that I currently own.
  • 08-27-2004, 05:15 PM
    RGA
    Dynaudio is a difficult to drive loiudspeaker and sounded distant and vague with a $2500.00 Denon - so we switch over to a Linn in a fairly large room the sopund was forward not laid back with a top end that bordred on excessive - it is a forward speaker - the Studio V3 100 is rolled off in the treble and IS 100% a laid back speaker - in fact it is a lifeless lousy speaker IMO considering the $2700.00 price point - a smoother treble but the V2 stomps it. No doubt some may not think it's much different but with good equipment in a good well treated room it was to me.

    The 20V3 was in another location and it was ok still thin and undefined seemingly less bass but a laid back top end - just sounds wrong to me.

    I should have mentioned the weajness about the Dane 42 was the difficult impedence and low sensitivity - the AX Two is 90db 8ohm nominal not sure of the minimum impedence. At $700.00Cdn I would ask anyone in the Victoria area to swing by and A/B them Against the Studio 20V3 or the 40V3 or the B&W 705(I would even attempt the N805). All of which are significantly more expensive loudspeakers.

    No harm in at leat trying the cheaper speaker - IMO the only harm is to the competition which will be in for a rude awakening. And to the average Joe they get a vivid presentation in the musical event at a higher level and save anywhere from $500.00 - $2300.00.

    By all means I should not have said don't waste your time with the 20's you are right - Please DO spend your time and compare them directly with the cheaper AX Two - then after you listen to them you won't need to waste your time with audio magazines or the likes of Paradigm. If that sounds like a snob statement well it won't to people have heard them - it will to those who have not.
  • 08-27-2004, 05:58 PM
    NickWH
    Quote:

    I don't remember the Dynaudios giving anywhere near the type of imaging that any of the Studio series models that I've heard do.
    HAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Quote:

    The Dane has a bit of this and was rather quite excellent on all counts but it's about double the price - and it's no better.
    The Audience 42's are $699 US. That is not even close to double the price of the AN's. And low-sensivity is not a "weakness" when you have an amp with balls.
  • 08-27-2004, 11:10 PM
    RGA
    Nick

    Yes i was not sure what they cost - they're terrific speakers...unfortunately not everyone does own a Bryston amplifier and IMO receivers will not do justice to them - this of course is not the speaker's fault it is the fault of receivers masquerading as quality amplification. But since most people use dreadful amplifiers it would probably be wise to buy an easy to drive loudspeaker.

    And I didn't find anything particularly brilliant about the imaging of the paradigms either.
  • 08-28-2004, 06:00 AM
    NickWH
    RGA,

    Yes, I learned the hard way that you are short-changing yourself running these speakers with an AVR. Good thing we have Audiogon. In the end, the extra effort and expense was well worth it, at least for me.

    If you have any shops by you that carry Plinius, I encourage you to listen to the Dyn's through one of their integrateds. The synergy between these components really brings out the best in these speakers.
  • 08-28-2004, 02:13 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    Nick

    Yes i was not sure what they cost - they're terrific speakers...unfortunately not everyone does own a Bryston amplifier and IMO receivers will not do justice to them - this of course is not the speaker's fault it is the fault of receivers masquerading as quality amplification. But since most people use dreadful amplifiers it would probably be wise to buy an easy to drive loudspeaker.

    Receivers are typically not rated to handle more than one pair of 4 ohm speakers at the same time. I've tried the Danes on a Marantz receiver, and I didn't notice any difference from how it sounded on a Rotel integrated. It's only if someone tries to do a 5.1 setup on the receiver that the receiver will have trouble. I don't think that constitues "masquerading as quality amplification" given that most speakers out there are not the low impedance variety anyway. Separates are typically better, but that does not instantly make receivers "dreadful". I guess I'm just an unhappy camper with my "dreadful" receiver and speakers made by music-hating accountants.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    And I didn't find anything particularly brilliant about the imaging of the paradigms either.

    Well, in all my listenings thus far with the Studio v.3 models, I've found the imaging to be about as good as I've heard from a conventional dynamic driver speaker. And these listenings were in two separate demo rooms. The only dynamic driver speakers I've heard that left more of an impression than the 20 on the imaging side are the Vandersteens. Those Vandys had other tonal issues, but if imaging is the priority, then they are hard to beat without going to panel models.
  • 08-28-2004, 03:00 PM
    BillB
    If laid-back is your thing, give a listen to a pair of Vienna Acoustics Haydns. The entire Vienna Classic line is voiced for a laid-back smooth sound. I lived with a pair of Haydns first in a 2-ch system, then as rears in my MCH system. I also had Mozarts in a 2-ch system and they became my front in the MCH system. The Haydns were on par with the Mozarts down to the limit of the Haydn's bass where the Mozart then took the edge. Their relatively narrow baffle with curved edges makes them all but disappear as well. The real-wood veneer finish is first rate.

    After living with the Vienna's for nealry three years I upgraded to a complete Paradigm Reference Studio Series v3 setup (100/CC-470/20). RGA, don't pass out on me... :D They blew the doors off of the Viennas with my music in my room as part of my system. The Viennas were too laid-back for my taste, and the Paradigms gave my music collection a fresh lease on life.

    Just goes to show how taste in speakers is a personal one. I've not heard the Audio Note but if they're in your area I'd give'em a try...can't hurt.

    One other speaker I've become quite fond of is the Nola Lil-Rascal. A shop in the area had a pair ($600 US I think) mated with an MMF-5 turntable and separates from Marsh and it sounded REALLY good. It's the first time I'd ever heard a decent turntable and I was floored at how good these small speakers sounded.

    Listen to as many as you have the time for before deciding. When you narrow it down to a shortlist of a few models come back again for feedback on those particular ones.

    Good Luck!
    Bill
  • 08-28-2004, 04:15 PM
    lumiere
    Hi.
    I would give the Totem Rainmakers a try,along with the others mentioned previously, specially the VR1.
    Cheers
  • 08-28-2004, 04:48 PM
    RGA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Receivers are typically not rated to handle more than one pair of 4 ohm speakers at the same time. I've tried the Danes on a Marantz receiver, and I didn't notice any difference from how it sounded on a Rotel integrated. It's only if someone tries to do a 5.1 setup on the receiver that the receiver will have trouble. I don't think that constitues "masquerading as quality amplification" given that most speakers out there are not the low impedance variety anyway. Separates are typically better, but that does not instantly make receivers "dreadful". I guess I'm just an unhappy camper with my "dreadful" receiver and speakers made by music-hating accountants.



    Well, in all my listenings thus far with the Studio v.3 models, I've found the imaging to be about as good as I've heard from a conventional dynamic driver speaker. And these listenings were in two separate demo rooms. The only dynamic driver speakers I've heard that left more of an impression than the 20 on the imaging side are the Vandersteens. Those Vandys had other tonal issues, but if imaging is the priority, then they are hard to beat without going to panel models.

    I am sorry you cannot hear much difference between quality separates and receivers - don't presume that because you don't that no one else does - I do - if you don't that is fine - I don't notice much difference at all between the yamaha and Anthem separates used with Paradigm. So with those speakers I would not bother spending the money on a big powerful amp to get pretty much the same if not identical sound.

    If a speaker stands out in one area above other things IMO it is probably doing something wrong. The Paradigm Studio 100V3 is the only V3 that I have logged any sort of apprecialble time on because I figured I would start with the BEST the company figures is their flagship product because I am under time constraints to listen to speakers. I am also more interested in speakers that to me sound good musically and I lose patience quickly when they are not up to others I have heard.

    I will be going to Soundhounds again this week and I want to listen to some Linns and the AX Two longer. I fully realize many people must think I'm off the beam with Audio Note and that's fine. But everytime I go there and talk to other customers and the store's owner
    I am tlking to Audiophiles who love music and know their stuff.

    I am A/Bing the gear. This isn't really an insult to Paradigm because the stuff is sold to a pricepoint and for a purpose but musically the 100V3 is off to me. A speaker is more than imaging or soundstaging. I can't jump for joy or particularly even notice those as strengths when the bass and tonality in the midrange is so off as to me to be unlistenable loudspeakers - they may very well image fine or soundstage fine but to me and my several listenings they sound off a bit hollow in the midband rolled off on the top end and lack microdynamics - macrodynamics is no problem they thump but IMO they're a mess at the price.

    And maybe I only notice this because of wat I'm comparing them to. A friend mentioned today that if you didn't A/B them you would not be as put off by them - that's a good point and it's probably true much of the time.

    If you get an opportunity and your bored out of your mind one day do A/B AN speakers with any of the usual suspects to get a feel about what I'm talking about - right now this is just words and it can't truly describe the visceral listening experience. I trust my dealer - the only dealer I do trust. I think it is not so unimportant that IF and I say IF because not everyone will agree but IF you "get" what AN is doing with their speakers when you audition them you will never go back to a Paradigm or a B&W speaker. They will literally sound bad afterwords.

    It may be hype you're tired of and most people who own speakers going in won't like to be objective and I grant you they're generally more expensive than most others. But the E and J are something else musically(and sonically) that do't get me talking about sonic aspects nearly as much other than dynamics especially on a microdynamic level at low volume.

    As such is VERY hard for me to go BACK and listen to the 705 or paradigms and have much good to say about what they're doing because they do nothing better and tend to sound like a box with incredibly closed in boxy sound. Talking to Terry at Soundhounds he is just there listening to gear - does not sell it. Nor does he try to upsell or sell you something you don't want. Just brings things in and tries it out if he doesn't like it he gets rid of the line. He broght in 3 $1500.00 Clearaudio Turntables - hated them preferred much cheaper Project tables - sent two clear audio's back and is blowing out the third one. The NAD 320 Bee was weird sounding out of phase - literally the most surprising or noticeable amp difference I've heard or soundstage - you cannot get Krall in the center when listening - all three models - Terry figures they must have used a cheaper part in the production run because the reviews have been great - but if that's the amp's sound I would buy a receiver.

    Now obviously Paradigm is reputable GOOD company that makes what many find good speakers - Sounhounds carry what they LIKE and they carry Paradigm because they feel it's a good brand - it is for the most part at the price range. They had ML in for a while dumped them - Terry didn't like the panel/sub match same as me and many others but he had problems with the midrange as well - but they look good but eventually just felt they were not good enough - too many people coming back.

    Another Highly touted and very good speaker is the Mani Two and it is very good. A teacher from my town moved to the E almost immediately after hearing them - he said to me while getting his turntable adjusted and new cart fitted that the Mani Two was a wonderful speaker but the E was something else. Yes It's hearsay and to you means nothing but IMO they're THAT good that they make other very highly touted speakers just sound weak(not all but many). Indeed Terry has been lobbying Boston Acoustics who owns Snell to make a heritage line based off the original Snells. Soundhounds carries BA but feel because of their looks they would never sell - which may be true. B&W has gone to Audio Note for advice on building cabinets that frankly don't suck the life out of the speakers. You can hear it from these Designer's mouths if you're in England anytime soon. When B&W is going to Peter for help to make a good sounding speaker then that is pretty telling - and Paradigm is in B&W's league - they're at least similar one is a bit forward the other a bit laid back but the sound is similar,
  • 08-30-2004, 05:18 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    I am sorry you cannot hear much difference between quality separates and receivers - don't presume that because you don't that no one else does - I do - if you don't that is fine - I don't notice much difference at all between the yamaha and Anthem separates used with Paradigm. So with those speakers I would not bother spending the money on a big powerful amp to get pretty much the same if not identical sound.

    No, I did not say that I cannot hear much difference. I'm merely pointing out that the sound is not "dreadful" like you say. That Rotel amp was an integrated amp, and in my listenings, the integrated amps were not all that different from the better receivers. It's only when you make the jump to preamp processor/amp separates that the differences are more discernible. But, even then, that doesn't make the receiver sound quality inadequate under most normal listening conditions.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    If a speaker stands out in one area above other things IMO it is probably doing something wrong. The Paradigm Studio 100V3 is the only V3 that I have logged any sort of apprecialble time on because I figured I would start with the BEST the company figures is their flagship product because I am under time constraints to listen to speakers. I am also more interested in speakers that to me sound good musically and I lose patience quickly when they are not up to others I have heard.

    In the case of the Vandy, it did sound not quite right in a few areas, and that's why they are the most frustrating speakers I've yet heard because they do specific things exceptionally well, and by that I mean top-of-the-class at any price well. People who are fans of the Vandys will swear by them, and opine that those are the most truly musical speakers around. And if the focus of the listening is on how immersive the speakers are and how pinpoint the location is with both two-channel and 5.1 setups, the Vandys are hard to beat. If not for their occasionally bizarre tonal characteristics, I very well might have bought those speakers. The frequency response measurements one of the Vandersteen models was comparable to a B&W Nautilus model, but subjectively sounded much more subdued. Some reviewers have speculated that the Vandy's better phase and time accuracy are responsible for this. Knowing how time domain problems in room acoustics can smear the imaging and make a speaker sound harsher, and hearing for myself how the phase adjustment affects the bass on a subwoofer, I wouldn't discount this notion.

    In the case of the Studio v.3, the improved imaging is not at the expense of anything. The highs are slightly mellower than before, and the midrange is more refined. The Studio 20 and 40 both lost some bass extension compared to the v.2 versions, but they gained in how well articulated and controlled the bass now sounds. And IMO, that's a fair tradeoff, since they still have plenty of bass extension for their size.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    I will be going to Soundhounds again this week and I want to listen to some Linns and the AX Two longer. I fully realize many people must think I'm off the beam with Audio Note and that's fine. But everytime I go there and talk to other customers and the store's owner I am tlking to Audiophiles who love music and know their stuff.

    Sounds more like you're talking to people who share your preferences. Keep in mind that there are plenty of others who love music, know their stuff, and enjoy a totally different type of sound from what you are preaching.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    I am A/Bing the gear. This isn't really an insult to Paradigm because the stuff is sold to a pricepoint and for a purpose but musically the 100V3 is off to me. A speaker is more than imaging or soundstaging. I can't jump for joy or particularly even notice those as strengths when the bass and tonality in the midrange is so off as to me to be unlistenable loudspeakers - they may very well image fine or soundstage fine but to me and my several listenings they sound off a bit hollow in the midband rolled off on the top end and lack microdynamics - macrodynamics is no problem they thump but IMO they're a mess at the price.

    And there are plenty of others who focus as obsessively on the imaging and soundstaging as you do on specific tonal characteristics. They are the ones who will take issue with horn speakers or any other speaker tends to have a narrow dispersion pattern. If the speaker beams or sounds overly "boxy", then they will eliminate it no matter how even or euphonious the tonal characteristics. After listening to the Vandersteens in a 5.1 configuration, their imaging is such that I cannot write them off completely just because I find fault with their tonal characteristics. And I can't dismiss the possibility that I did not like them simply because I'm not used to that type of sound and there aren't very many speakers on the market that use a suspended baffle or a time and phase correct design.
  • 08-30-2004, 07:49 PM
    RGA
    OK Woochifer fair enough.

    I understand I think where you're coming from - I was talking to another forumer on AA and he said he preferred speakers that would do one or two things at a SOTA level even if one or two other things were done quite badly. SO perhaps a speaker like Vandersteen would fall into that camp by what you say. I personally would rather a speaker that does everythig say 9/10 all across the board than do one thing better than any other speaker if say it scores a 3/10 in dynamics.

    The trouble I guess I continually seem to get into, whether it's my writing style or what, is that I am figuring people want what I want in a loudspeaker. I do not want to listen to a loudspeaker and intellectually say "wow check out the imaging or the off axis response" I want to be transported into believing that the singer is there the instruments are seamlessly completely from top to bottom there without ANY hint of a thump a conjested instrumental anything that makes me believe that it's not the way it should be. And of course this is Artful compromising of tricking us by highlighting the speaker's strengths and if designed well making us not notice the weaknesses.

    I'm not sure if you spend time on AA under another name but you seem to listen to a lot of speakers and as such I think you will appreciate why I am a fan of the sound of Audio Note particularly their J and E. They sound like no other boxed speaker I have heard. I have a hard time of explaining what they sound like. Interestingly if you have Hi-Fi CHoice in the states their August issue the reviewer Paul Messenger contradicted himself about 4 times trying to explain what they sound like.

    Here is my main problem with the measurements - we agree the 20V3 has good measurments but when actually listening to them against the AN (which supposedly has good measurments but of which I have not seen), I don't get the impression I'm being presented with lifelike music. How the hell do I say that any other way? I hear a tweeter and a woofer producing notes working almost independantly of each other. The sound is laid back in the treble a bit upfront in the midbass and I always feel I need to turn the volume UP to get it to sound good. Paradigm is hardly alone on this front for me. Even with Bryston and it was even worse on the N705 on the turn it up to sound good front.

    Perhaps it's imediacy perhaps something is not being resolved. I have tried to numerously to note dynamics but Terry used a better word microdynaimics. When there is Brush work on cymbals or drum behind Dianna Krall we both want to turn it up because we know something more is there but we can't hear it - it's subtle granted - but we want to turn the volume knob to get at that to flesh it out. Flipping the AN you don't get that sense because it seems like the sound is much bigger to start with (I suppose people would call this a fatter sound but not a bad fatter sound like the west coast sound alla JBL or Cerwin Vega etc. The word "tuneful" compes up from other people who mention their speakers. When I heard someone strum a guitar earlier today you get a rather tuneful box sound where the box lingers that extra bit. I get the sense from the 20 like most speakers designed similarly of a stunted box - sure if I sit well off axis or on axix I get a similar sound - wide dispersion no question but the tonality or reality of that box seems to be eliminated.

    I come on here and try to describe it and it fails I suspect because most people these days will have likely only heard speakers that have a very very very similar designed box, or electrostats - which surprisingly have narrow sweetspots. Basically, it may be an issue of the size of the sound I prefer over the same sound in 8 different places you sit in the room. I don;t want the same sound I want a big soundstage with full tonality of instruments - and before we sing the praise of the current dominating design let's at least compare it, not to other companies doing the EXACT same thing, but other makers not doing that at all. Ie doing a DBT or any listening test with 8 brands all of which are slim line designs using a metal tweeter with multiple 5-7 inch drivers all with the exact same goals - have 8 completely different approaches.

    I used to argue with people here about choosing between B&W and a Paradigm counterpart --- I know realise I was argueing over two speakers that pretty much sound exactly the same - give or take bass or whether they are forward or laid back but regardless the differences between the two to me now seem rather minor.

    I'm not here to convert you or even have you listen - doesn't matter really in the big scheme of things but i am trying to articulate why I have gravitated to this type of sound and why what I heard before just to me now is virtually unlistenable. I am fully aware that Maggie owners or Vandersteen owners will say the same thing largely - and they like AN will have their weaknesses. It will depend on how liveable the weaknesses are. But the To me the strengths the AN produce are just so strong that the likes of the 705 sound so so lacking on those areas that I can't stand listening to them - they sound so so small like those speakers you connect to those little Yamaha or TEAC shelf mini-systems. And we're not talking about cheap low end speakers in the B&W.

    Soundhounds is selling more Audio Note than any other brand they carry - I respect that these guys have been selling for 30 years and all of them have J's or E's in their homes. Reviewers of magazines have them recording studios use them, manufacturers of amplifiers cd players (competitors use them). And yes fan boys like me. And all of that can be said for a number of manufacturers. And no they won't be to all tastes. But I have heard Vandersteen and one Maggie - and while I understand their appeal - they make big tradeoffs that are very very noticable. TO me that is unnacceptable. But to others obviously not so.

    Long winded sorry - to each their own - I will post a review later this week and will not attack any of the products I heard - just impressions that I found with them stressing personal prefernce. I was thinking of using a similar rating system that Enjoythemusic uses. BUT, with say for imaging I might give a rating out of 10 but because microdynamics are more important to me I will score out of 10 with maybe a multiplier beside it like X3 so it it would be valued out of 30 - so a speaker scoring well say a 9 would get 27/30 but one that gets 6 would only get 18/30. Then at the end people know what I personally value - but if they think imaging is way more important they can adjust for it. This is the only fair thing I think one can do when rating subjectively and everyone will knwo where it is I'm coming from. We do this in my education class. Content out of 10 X 8(or just out of 80) and style out of 10 and spelling and grammar out of 10 kind of thing. A grammar Nazi teacher may have grammar 20X2 style 10X2 and content 10x4(or out of 40).

    This way if you think Dynamics is only worthy of being scored out of 10 and imaging should be 30 then you can still be able to determine if I'm being FAIR to the product but that my personal taste or NEED for something else is simply different than yours. All I know is that sound out of 5 is useless becuase most everything gets 4 or 5 because 3 seems really harsh.
  • 08-31-2004, 03:57 AM
    BillB
    So I think our advice to Nadeem is to try and listen to as many more speakers as he possibly can before plunking down his hard-earned cash.

    Then again one could argue that listening to speakers out a various dealers, while idealistic, is simply a waste of time as 99% of the time they're going to sound quite different when that person gets them home and hooks them up to their equipment in their room.

    Bill
  • 08-31-2004, 10:14 AM
    RGA
    Bill I agree...my only problem with recommedning home listening tests is that one is making an assumption that you will never move to another home. Room interaction is important but the better speaker will sound better in any room...a good room or a bad room provided the room is large enough and you have options to place the speakers. I simply think the room is used as an excuse by speaker manufactuers who often leave their systems static at tade shows - well everyone else is in the same boat.

    Most dealer's rooms are pretty average to good and so are most of the homes and apartments I have lived in. The sound will be different - but my dealer has three rooms of verying size and quality - one isn't ideal for Audio Note speakers because there is no corner - and yet it still sounded the best the store carries in that location even though that location would be advantageous to the the B&W N801.

    I think it is important to listen to the speakers in the same room with the same gear properly set-up. Move it all to another room and the winner should still win.