"Large" vs "Small" speaker settings.

[kexodusc]

I did spend a couple hours before lunch, playing some more tunes with the speakers set to small and the sub handling all the LFE. For music playback I think I tend to prefer this. The bass is more accurate, though the sub does tend to give itself away on a few rare occasions in the higher bass frequencies...I'm 100% confident if I could lower the LFE cutoff on my receiver to 80 or even 70 Hz, this would all but be eliminated. There's no loss of bass now that the speakers aren't handling it. If anything, the midrange seems a bit better. I can't believe I never tried this before.

I then spent the afternoon watching LOTR: The Two Towers. Okay, this made a far more significant improvement in my setup for LFE effects in 5.1. It's my belief that while I wasn't missing any frequencies below 90 Hz (my receivers cutoff) the ones above say 50 Hz or so were being output by the speakers alone...the ones below by both (to the limit of my Studios). This result in some very uneven bass "humps" (for lack of better terminology). Even though my sub was set properly volume wise, the bass output didn't blend in as seamlessly as before (though at the time it sounded quite good to me).

At this point I think I'm truly beginning to understand the advantages of decent bass management in a receiver or crossover. I really can't wait to get my RX-V1400.

For anyone with large speakers that hasn't tried playing with the size settings, I'd suggest you at least give it a go.
Thanks to all who posted!!!

[oakley#36]

I have monitor 11's w/ pw2200. should i also set my speaker setting to small or leave on large? how about my crossover setting Master Yoda?

[kexodusc]

Hey, give it a shot. My Studio's are hardly lacking in bass by themselves, not that they're booming with it either. I think the duplication of bass output from your Monitors and sub might be a cause for some concern, but I haven't heard you system, so it might sound great too. Try it out, and you may notice an improvement in mid-range details, as well as a better, seamless blend between the speakers and sub. Crank the sub's cut-off all the way to the max, and let your receiver determine the LFE crossover.
Give it some time too. If you're like me, at first it won't sound quite like what you're used to, and you may make quick judgements. I'm still quite impressed, and I really can't wait until my new receiver comes in. I'm stuck at 90Hz right now, I really think a few more lower options would further improve my system.

[oakley#36]

i have my monitor 11 w/ pw2200. speaker setting to large mains. pioneer elite 55txi receiver, pioneer elite power amp for bi-amping the 11's. my sub crossover is max w/ the receiver crossover set to 80? I welcome the input. thanks

[Tarheel_]

Kexodusc,
Glad your system has improved. I discovered the same improvments when i replaced a 2001 year model Denon (fixed at 80hz) with an HK with adjustable crossover points. My fronts can go to 20hz and my sub has a crossover bypass option. I heard significant boominess when using the receiver to set the fronts at 80hz or 60hz, but when I adjusted the fronts to 40hz = perfect. Now, the speakers and sub blend will.
See...just when you think the tweaking is over, it begins.

[F1]

Kexodusc,
Glad your system has improved. I discovered the same improvments when i replaced a 2001 year model Denon (fixed at 80hz) with an HK with adjustable crossover points. My fronts can go to 20hz and my sub has a crossover bypass option. I heard significant boominess when using the receiver to set the fronts at 80hz or 60hz, but when I adjusted the fronts to 40hz = perfect. Now, the speakers and sub blend will.
See...just when you think the tweaking is over, it begins.

I have similar experience. When I use receiver crossover at 80Hz (Marantz 7300) and connect my sub via LFE I noticed some boominess. But when I set the main as Large and connect my sub via main pre amp output and then set the sub crossover at 60-65Hz the boominess was gone. This setting is ideal to blend with my bookshelf mains.

[Woochifer]

Hey, give it a shot. My Studio's are hardly lacking in bass by themselves, not that they're booming with it either. I think the duplication of bass output from your Monitors and sub might be a cause for some concern, but I haven't heard you system, so it might sound great too. Try it out, and you may notice an improvement in mid-range details, as well as a better, seamless blend between the speakers and sub. Crank the sub's cut-off all the way to the max, and let your receiver determine the LFE crossover.
Give it some time too. If you're like me, at first it won't sound quite like what you're used to, and you may make quick judgements. I'm still quite impressed, and I really can't wait until my new receiver comes in. I'm stuck at 90Hz right now, I really think a few more lower options would further improve my system.

Aside from the crossover point, another aid in blending the sub to the mains is a parametric equalizer. The in-room measurements I've done of my Studio 40 v.2s shows a midbass bump around 50 Hz, the size of which varies depending on which room they're in. There are some other variations in the bass curve, which also vary by the room acoustics.

The thing about subwoofers is that you can move to the spot in the room that reinforces low frequencies the most. This is where the higher crossover frequency can be a disadvantage because it often creates multiple peaks in the bass response. If the sub is in a spot where the bass is reinforced, then the size of these peaks can be huge, and significantly larger than with the mains, which are typically situated along the middle of the front wall, where bass is not the strongest. In my case, my subwoofer had +14 db peak right at 88 Hz, which made the bass sound VERY boomy right out of the box.

However, by doing a lot of measurements with a SPL meter and test tones, I identified the three biggest problem frequencies. Using the parametric equalizer, I was able to dial down all of those peaks and basically fine tune the subwoofer response such that it is now within 2db between 25 Hz and 90 Hz. That makes for very seamless integration with the mains. That 90 Hz crossover frequency is still high enough for the subwoofer to reveal itself at times, but the parametric equalizer eliminated any hint of boominess.

By going with a lower crossover frequency, it does allow for the subwoofer to "disappear" better, but at the same time if you set the crossover frequency too low, then the uneven in-room bass response for the mains can potentially take over (any peaks and/or nulls from that spot cannot be easily corrected). By shifting more of the load over to the subwoofer, it allows you to use the parametric equalizer to fine tune a wider frequency range and create a more even sounding bass. Can't easily use a parametric equalizer with the main speakers, so any low frequencies coming from those speakers are still subject to the whims of your room acoustics.

[oakley#36]

Aside from the crossover point, another aid in blending the sub to the mains is a parametric equalizer. The in-room measurements I've done of my Studio 40 v.2s shows a midbass bump around 50 Hz, the size of which varies depending on which room they're in. There are some other variations in the bass curve, which also vary by the room acoustics.

The thing about subwoofers is that you can move to the spot in the room that reinforces low frequencies the most. This is where the higher crossover frequency can be a disadvantage because it often creates multiple peaks in the bass response. If the sub is in a spot where the bass is reinforced, then the size of these peaks can be huge, and significantly larger than with the mains, which are typically situated along the middle of the front wall, where bass is not the strongest. In my case, my subwoofer had +14 db peak right at 88 Hz, which made the bass sound VERY boomy right out of the box.

However, by doing a lot of measurements with a SPL meter and test tones, I identified the three biggest problem frequencies. Using the parametric equalizer, I was able to dial down all of those peaks and basically fine tune the subwoofer response such that it is now within 2db between 25 Hz and 90 Hz. That makes for very seamless integration with the mains. That 90 Hz crossover frequency is still high enough for the subwoofer to reveal itself at times, but the parametric equalizer eliminated any hint of boominess.

By going with a lower crossover frequency, it does allow for the subwoofer to "disappear" better, but at the same time if you set the crossover frequency too low, then the uneven in-room bass response for the mains can potentially take over (any peaks and/or nulls from that spot cannot be easily corrected). By shifting more of the load over to the subwoofer, it allows you to use the parametric equalizer to fine tune a wider frequency range and create a more even sounding bass. Can't easily use a parametric equalizer with the main speakers, so any low frequencies coming from those speakers are still subject to the whims of your room acoustics.

I'm running a pioneer elite 55txi receiver w/ elite m-10 power amp. Speakers are paradigm monitor 11's for fronts and pw2200 subwoofer. How should I set my speakers and How to set which crossover? Receiver crossover only or with the subwoofer too? oakley36

[cam]

I'm running a pioneer elite 55txi receiver w/ elite m-10 power amp. Speakers are paradigm monitor 11's for fronts and pw2200 subwoofer. How should I set my speakers and How to set which crossover? Receiver crossover only or with the subwoofer too? oakley36

First, set all speakers to small, second, choose a crossover setting on your receiver somewhere close to 80 hz, third, on your sub turn your crossover dial all the way up to 150 hz that way your sub crossover will be out of the way of your receivers crossover.

[poneal]

All Wooch's recommendations are right on. I did like you did and played with both large and small. When small is selected my receiver only lets me choose 100Hz or 80Hz. I tested all of the different variations and ended up with all my speakers set to small and the sub xover set to 80Hz. This provided me with the best sound on my system. Moving the sub around does make a diffence. I moved mine to a corner and it increased the bass response. It also made it more detectable when playing the higher notes just as Wooch pointed out. I decided I could live with that. I can say that adding a subwoofer to my system was the best investment I could have made. Now music and movies sound like they should.