HSU versus SVS

[Canadia507]

Aside from all the wild reviews on their site, does HSU's variable tuning frequency really make that much of a difference, compared to non vtf subs, such as SVS cubes and cylinders? I've also heard rumors that HSU subs aren't as well made as others, having the tendency to screw up and cost a fortune to repair since they aren't exactly as main stream as other subs.

Also, how about any preferences or recommendations for a nice music-oriented sub in general - Whats your favorite sub and why, and do non sub-only companies even have a chance?

[Woochifer]

I believe that Hsu's STF subs are now made in China, which probably leads to the perception that they aren't made as well as the U.S.-made SVS subs. But, even there, all of the components inside of these subs are manufactured by outsource partners, some of which might be outside of the U.S.

The biggest issue with subwoofers is often the room integration, and the variable tuning profile on Hsu's subs can actually provide some benefit in this area because it changes the frequency response profile. But, whether or not you will benefit from the feature depends entirely on the room acoustics, your placement, and your listening position location. Rather than worry about Hsu vs. SVS, I would start looking at your room and assess potential acoustical problems that you need to remedy via room treatments and/or equalization.

Since you're asking about music-oriented subs, a lot of audiophiles prefer sealed designs, which neither Hsu nor SVS use. Most subwoofers on the market are ported because of their higher output. Companies that make sealed subs include B&W, Martin Logan, ACI, Vandersteen, Paradigm (their Servo line only), Sunfire, Atlantic Technology, Rocket, and Acoustic Visions. A general rule of thumb that I've seen tossed around is that if your room is small to medium sized, then you should consider a sealed sub, and if it's large (400 sq.ft.+), then you're better off with a ported sub.

This is because the room boundary will reinforce the lower frequencies. The smaller the room dimensions, the higher the frequency at which this reinforcement begins. Sealed subs have a more gradual dropoff at the low end, which matches the rate at which the room boundary reinforces the low frequencies. Ported subs have flatter frequency response down to the tuned port frequency, but their dropoff at the low end is much steeper. In a small room, this can create bass with an exaggerated boost in the low end and less extension than a sealed sub can deliver in that same room. In a large room, the sealed sub no longer benefits from the boundary reinforcement, and the higher and generally flatte (down to the tuned port frequency) output from a ported sub has a distinct advantage.

But, no matter which sub you opt for, you should get up to speed with learning how to measure the in-room response on the subwoofer, and how to adjust for room-induced interactions that can create huge peaks and dips in the frequency response. If you don't own one already, get a SPL meter at Radio Shack, and then get a CD wth test tones on it. Those will allow you to measure the actual output of a subwoofer, and identify any problem areas that your room has created.

Once you've identified the problem areas, then the next step is to make the room adjustments. This can be done with corner bass traps, repositioning the sub, changing the listening location, and/or equalizing the sub. In my room, I use a Behringer Feedback Destroyer as a parametric equalizer, and it has been absolutely vital to getting my subwoofer to sound right. IMO, correcting for the room acoustics makes a bigger difference in the quality of bass that you hear than which brand of subwoofer you go with.

[Canadia507]

I'm a college student in an apartment - so rather than focus on precise room acoustics, (as I can hardly say this is a permanent residence) something along the lines of an all-around versatile sub that would be able to perform well under different circumstances (as well as with differerent types of music) would be ideal. And from what you're saying, a closed sub probably would be a better idea, thanks for the advice. I'm more concerned with it being able to adequately keep up with faster paced rock and alternative and to not turn mahler into a 50 cent concert, rather than its proficiency annoying neighbors in the next county whenever I put in a mase cd.

And as far as practicality is concerned, I know there's paradigm and wharfedale dealers nearby - any feedback on any of their models would be a great help - although I'd easily rather spend more and go the extra mile for a better piece of equipment.

Although, I can buy a lot of pizza with the going rate of a decent sub these days.

[LeoFenderBender]

I'm liking my Hsu VTF-3 Mk2 - it is adjustable to just about any space. If you plan on living in that apartment forever you probably want something less. If you want room for growth, you might look no further...

[kexodusc]

I think Wooch summarized it very well.
Generally, sealed subs are said to be more "musical" than ported subs (at the expense of higher output, and some low extension). If you're buying the sub for music purposes only, I'd recommend going that route. There's several technical reasons why this is...I won't get into those now.

If you use a sub for both home theater and music (many of us do) than it's a job of balancing trade offs. You can get super low bass extension in a ported design (5 Hz or so lower) and much better power handling and output ability - this is great for home theater. To get the same performance from a sealed sub, you have to spend more money, or buy a much bigger sub (probably a 15" woofer).

All this isn't to say that a ported sub won't sound good for music, or a sealed sub good for home theater, just that each have their own design advantages

Depending on your budget, sealed subs might not be much of an option though. If we knew roughly how much you were budgeting for this, we could probably make a few recommendations for some of the more popular subs here.

[Canadia507]

I'd be willing to spend up to 700; the VTF-2 MK-2 runs about 500 according to the HSU site (which is what I had been leaning to prior to this post) and i'd probably be able to get one a bit cheaper - but a decent sealed would cost more, no?

And yeah, the emphasis is on music - I'd rather have a sub that would short change my cinematic explosions rather than make non-rap sound overly boomy. I had hoped through reading reviews that the VTF-2 would be able to switch hit fairly well between music and HT - and Leo, i'm curious as to how the VTF-3 keeps up with faster paced stuff seeing as its HSUs next step up from the smaller 2, and I'm sure both would be more than adequate in terms of a movie sub for my tastes.

[GMichael]

I'd be willing to spend up to 700; the VTF-2 MK-2 runs about 500 according to the HSU site (which is what I had been leaning to prior to this post) and i'd probably be able to get one a bit cheaper - but a decent sealed would cost more, no?

And yeah, the emphasis is on music - I'd rather have a sub that would short change my cinematic explosions rather than make non-rap sound overly boomy. I had hoped through reading reviews that the VTF-2 would be able to switch hit fairly well between music and HT - and Leo, i'm curious as to how the VTF-3 keeps up with faster paced stuff seeing as its HSUs next step up from the smaller 2, and I'm sure both would be more than adequate in terms of a movie sub for my tastes.

Can you do a little work with you hands? If you can assemble things without too much trouble I would suggest one of the kits available from Parts Express. Here is a link to a nice one, but they have more kits. They also have all the parts you need to design and build what you want if you don't like the kits.

http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...ake/index.html

[kexodusc]

I'd be willing to spend up to 700; the VTF-2 MK-2 runs about 500 according to the HSU site (which is what I had been leaning to prior to this post) and i'd probably be able to get one a bit cheaper - but a decent sealed would cost more, no?

And yeah, the emphasis is on music - I'd rather have a sub that would short change my cinematic explosions rather than make non-rap sound overly boomy. I had hoped through reading reviews that the VTF-2 would be able to switch hit fairly well between music and HT - and Leo, i'm curious as to how the VTF-3 keeps up with faster paced stuff seeing as its HSUs next step up from the smaller 2, and I'm sure both would be more than adequate in terms of a movie sub for my tastes.

I liked my old VTF-2. When I moved up in room sized I upgraded to a Paradigm PW-2200, which was a bit better, but in hindsight, probably not worth the extra money I paid.

For $700, look no further -
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-762
This is a fabulous subwoofer for the money, exceptionally well designed. You'll need to assemble it (20 minutes, very easy).

Sometimes you can find them on their auction site at e-bay a bit cheaper. The Titanic I built my parents was much better sounding than my PW-2200. Not even close. There aren't many sealed subs in this price range available right now, but you might try Adire Audio as well (have they brought the Rava back?)

There are other options, but I can't find my list at the moment.