How can I improve the sound of choral music

[Scruffy]

I currently have a H\K AVR 325 receiver with Polk RTi4 and 6 speakers. Most of my music sounds GREAT running from an M-Audio sound card on my computer using a single setting on my graphic equalizer. Not so for choral music. Here I find myself always having to readjust the midrange frequencies to get different voice tones to sound OK.

Can anybody relate to this? Perhaps suggest speakers that are better for choral music listening? Anything else I might want to explore to improve the sound of choral music?

My room is small and carpeted, and I never play my music very loud.

One thing I did already discover is that turning on the “Bass Management� on my M-Audio sound card greatly improves the midrange performance of my system, but I think the sound tones in choral music could benefit a lot more with some additional changes.
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[markw]

Have you tried your receiver/speaker combo with a standalone CD player? Either beg, borrow or, err... borrow one and feed in in through your aux inputs. If choral music sounds good, then it's the sound card. If it still sux, then it's probably the speakers.

Receivers are pretty neutral here.

[Scruffy]

Have you tried your receiver/speaker combo with a standalone CD player? Either beg, borrow or, err... borrow one and feed in in through your aux inputs. If choral music sounds good, then it's the sound card. If it still sux, then it's probably the speakers.

Receivers are pretty neutral here.

No, but I did try my connection using digital, which the M-Audio card and H\K receiver allow for, and the problem was still there. I also took my music and sampled it on other speakers, such as the B&W 601's, and I thought I heard some of the “distortion” in them as well, but it’s hard to really tell without having the opportunity to adjust the midrange frequencies with an EQ.

I find it in virtually all my choral music, and I seem always able to deal it using the EQ, but fix one choral tone to sound good and the problem pops up again when the recording emphasizes another choral tone, unless I eliminate virtually all the midrange altogether.

I’m inclined to think the “softer” sounding B&W’s would help a lot once properly adjusted, but I would like input before going through with the purchase. It would also be interesting to see if other people experience hearing the same “distortion” with this genera of music?

[markw]

I'm thinking it's the audio card but unless you play along, we're not gonna get anywhere.

Try connecting up a CD/DVD player and connect it up via the analog connections. Then try connecting the CD/DVD player using it's digital connections.

If these clean it up, it's the audio card. If not, it's probably the receiver or the speakers.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I agree with Mark on this one. Sound cards in computers are not the most resolute in terms of D/A conversion. They are not made for critical listening, unless they are the highest end soundcards(and even those cannot keep up with most mid to high end DVD or CD players)

Out of all the music I have recorded in my life, choral music(especially massed choirs)is probably the most difficult to record with a high degree of intelligibility. Choral music contains tons of harmonics and overtones when all of the voices are combined with music. It takes a dang good D/A converter to sort all of this out, and dang good speakers to resolve the complex timbres. If you want to get to the bottom of the problem, be open to all aspects of your system. Especially your sound card.

[Scruffy]

I'm thinking it's the audio card but unless you play along, we're not gonna get anywhere.

Try connecting up a CD/DVD player and connect it up via the analog connections. Then try connecting the CD/DVD player using it's digital connections.

If these clean it up, it's the audio card. If not, it's probably the receiver or the speakers.

I agree, and I knocked on 2 doors so far trying to locate a CD player with no luck. I'll keep trying, but may take a while.

Listening to a Naxos recording of William Byrd right now that was pretty easily managed in the midrange using an EQ, but still sounded way off when turning off the bass management function and EQ.

Thanks!

[Scruffy]

Oh yeah, one more point that caused me not to think it was my sound card is that listening with Grado headphones GREATLY improves things with minimal EQ adjustments.

[Scruffy]

I agree with Mark on this one. Sound cards in computers are not the most resolute in terms of D/A conversion. They are not made for critical listening, unless they are the highest end soundcards(and even those cannot keep up with most mid to high end DVD or CD players)

Out of all the music I have recorded in my life, choral music(especially massed choirs)is probably the most difficult to record with a high degree of intelligibility. Choral music contains tons of harmonics and overtones when all of the voices are combined with music. It takes a dang good D/A converter to sort all of this out, and dang good speakers to resolve the complex timbres. If you want to get to the bottom of the problem, be open to all aspects of your system. Especially your sound card.

Thanks! I have the connection on my sound card set to DIGITAL OUTPUT, and my input on my receiver set to DIGITAL INPUT, using coaxial cable, so it's my receiver that's doing the digital to analog conversion, not my sound card. I'm still looking for a CD player to borrow though, and will test it further.

[noddin0ff]

I'll ask the dumb question...when playing from the computer are you playing CD's directly or are you playing compressed audio files...

Much of what your looking for could've been lost ripping from the CD in the compression.

noddin0ff

[Scruffy]

I'll ask the dumb question...when playing from the computer are you playing CD's directly or are you playing compressed audio files...

Much of what your looking for could've been lost ripping from the CD in the compression.

noddin0ff

Most of my music is compressed, but this was one of the first factors I considered, and I honestly cannot notice any difference when using the CD directly. But I did find that "Volume Leveling” definitely has a negative effect on sound quality. I’m still looking for a CD player to connect directly to my receiver, and I think this will help eliminate a lot what may be suspect in my setup.

[Scruffy]

I ended up switching s/pdif outputs; instead of using the s/pdif output on my M-Audio sound card, I switched to the one coming from my motherboard, and things improved A LOT. What's odd is that the volume decreased considerably going to the s/pdif on my motherboard, which I'm not sure why, but again, the sound quality did improve.

Thanks for everybody's help!!!

[Lafferman]

just a little bit of my experience with my comps sound card. i have a sound blaster 2 zs platnum pro and it hooked up to my home theater was no where near my expectations. i would say the sound card is pry the hang up or the program that your using to play your tracks unfortunatly for the both of us i just gave up on it....sorry.

oh but burned music from my comp sounds a lot better so i now just burn it and bring it to the my cd/dvd player...just another option maybe.

[Debbi]

Choral music is about the best speaker audition material available and usually includes lots of applause which is close second....it is very complex.....let me guess....vocals sound like a tangled mass and applause sounds like rain......very fast transitions in this type of material and generally produced better by rigid cone speakers like Monitor Audio or Klipsch with mettalic cones which move fast and damp quickly... but you may not like this type of cone with other types of music.....no perfect answer here....

[Scruffy]

Choral music is about the best speaker audition material available and usually includes lots of applause which is close second....it is very complex.....let me guess....vocals sound like a tangled mass and applause sounds like rain......very fast transitions in this type of material and generally produced better by rigid cone speakers like Monitor Audio or Klipsch with mettalic cones which move fast and damp quickly... but you may not like this type of cone with other types of music.....no perfect answer here....

The problem is now fixed completely since I received my new Magnepan MMG speakers.

http://www.magnepan.com/the_offer.php

These new speakers have near perfect tonal balance with every type of music I have tried, including female choral music. NO MORE EQUALIZER!!!

[E-Stat]

The problem is now fixed completely since I received my new Magnepan MMG speakers.

Welcome to the world of planars. I was first turned on to Magneplanar Tympanis thirty years ago.

rw