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  1. #1
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    Advice about speakers

    Hello to all!
    I am new here,but I think here I can find a good advice about speakers-amplifier compatibility.
    I have a Acuphase E 406V integrat amplifier and a Acuphase Cd-player DP 65V.
    My question is:
    I will chose fromynaudio C2,Dynaudio Saphire,countur 5.4,or B&W Nautilius 802/803,or Focal JM lab Alto Utopia or Electra 920.
    First I must say...YES,I know ,the sound is much diferent wit this type of speakers,...but is the 406Vfrom Accuphase enough stronger/good/give high curent to handle this speakers on his performance or not?Know somebody this think?
    My tendency is to go for Dynaudio Saphire...????Wat you think?is a god choosing?
    I hear my Accuphase with a Dynaudio C2.I was satisfied with the sound,but...if is posibil to have a better sound with the accuphase line 406v and 65v,and someone can give a adwice,please give me this.
    And ...From Accuphase a Power conditioner PS 500,will be a big improuwment on the sound or not?(I read much of this Accuphase PS 500 and manny people said"he make miracle ".Is really so?
    Thanks,and sorry for....many question

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    I've heard the Sapphires and believe although they aren't cheap, they are, a good value. Their sound quality is incredible. In my opinion the Sapphire would put the B&W to shame.

    Not familiar with your amp but if it drove the C2's fine I don't see it having a problem with the Sapphire.

  3. #3
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    Many thanks for your answer ,Mr Peabody!!!
    Please if somebody know something different about my question,please answer!

  4. #4
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    I heard the sapphires with an Accuphase E-550 driving them, and I was thoroughly impressed.
    great match, great speakers, great amp.

    the B&W's are also extremely good, although I would definately aim for the 802D's big step forward from the 803's. Remember though you'll need lot's of space, and a good room to use them correctly. And a pretty powerful amp.

    ever looked at Thiel CS3.7's (I have thiels, so I'm slightly biased ), or Avalon's? those are exellent speakers too, I heard the Thiels a few times already now, and everytime again they suprise me (in a good way )...

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

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    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  5. #5
    RGA
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    For this kind of budget I would do your best to audition the Audio Note E and J speakers. They are the least good looking of the bunch but offer you the opportunity to move to low power tube amps in the future - neither Dynaudio or B&W offer that ability. Ideally they are to be positioned in corners to give their best response in terms of frequency balance and bass depth. The E, assuming your room is 25X25 or smaller will match the B&W N801 in terms of bass depth - despite being smaller and utilizing less drivers. In terms of sound quality IMO the AN J and E are quite a sizable step up from either Dynaudio or B&W especially on acoustic and vocal material though the big Danes and big B&W's will ultimately play louder. That Tannoy Westminster would be another option if you want the high SPLs while retaining again the ability to use SET amplifiers down the road. You may think to yourself that you would never go to low powered tubes but the option is nice to have and when you hear a good one - you may never go back - virtually all SET owners started with expensive Solid State amps and were highly skeptical and when they hear them - well their SS soon goes up on Ebay or audiogon.

    I own Audio Note and I am biased but at the same time a nice Audio Note E/LX HE runs around $7,500. The B&W Diamond 800 is $22,000.00 And Dynaudio Evidence speakers are up here as well. The E/LX HE IMO just sounds better - more cohesive, and like actual instruments rather than hi-fi speakers. To a degree the Westminster and the Quad 2905 share this ability in different ways.

    If the speaker is unfamiliar to you, check out www.dagogo.com (editor's reference speaker) - several different reviewers have reviewed them, enjoythemusic.com (editor's reference speaker), stereophile (the reviewer ended up buying a set), Hi-Fi Choice (magazine's reference speaker), Chesky Records (mastering engineer's reference speaker).

    You may hate their look though www.dagogo.com/AudioNoteAN-E-SE-2003.html
    www.dagogo.com/AudioNoteAN-E-SPe-HE.html

    My review of the J
    www.dagogo.com/AudioNoteANJ-SPe.html

    Having said that - no review equals an audition - I am not telling you what to buy but merely suggesting something at significantly lower cost because IF you do like them it will save you a significant amount of money. You may very well prefer the B&W or the Dynaudio and feel the added price is worth it.

    But the HE speakers can of course be driven by the SS and digital amps as well - they ultimately give you more flexibility for future upgrades because you have far more amplifier choices.

    Good Luck - I personally find speaker hunting to be the most fun in this hobby.

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    Many thanks for your answers/opinion.
    I apreciate this,and I can make a good choosing when I buy the speakers.I have allready the Accuphase amplifier and cd-player,and I don't will to change them.
    I am happy to find here so friendly people.

  7. #7
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    Since you do not want to change your amplifier

    Quote Originally Posted by puiutu62
    Many thanks for your answers/opinion.
    I apreciate this,and I can make a good choosing when I buy the speakers.I have allready the Accuphase amplifier and cd-player,and I don't will to change them.
    I am happy to find here so friendly people.
    puiutu62, you have shortlisted a fine set of speakers, is it possible to audition them with your amps? Some of those speakers are more demanding on amplification than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA

    I own Audio Note and I am biased but at the same time a nice Audio Note E/LX HE runs around $7,500. The B&W Diamond 800 is $22,000.00 And Dynaudio Evidence speakers are up here as well. The E/LX HE IMO just sounds better - more cohesive, and like actual instruments rather than hi-fi speakers. To a degree the Westminster and the Quad 2905 share this ability in different ways.

    If the speaker is unfamiliar to you, check out www.dagogo.com (editor's reference speaker) - several different reviewers have reviewed them, enjoythemusic.com (editor's reference speaker), stereophile (the reviewer ended up buying a set), Hi-Fi Choice (magazine's reference speaker), Chesky Records (mastering engineer's reference speaker).[/url]



    I guess these folks do not know what actual instruments sound like, they just record them for a living
    It's a listening test, you do not need to see it to listen to it!

  8. #8
    RGA
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    Judging by most people's opinions on the quality of recordings - it might just be that they're using the wrong loudspeakers. B&W gives for free speakers to recording studios in exchange for advertising. You may know that B&W is used at Skywalker studios - but did you know that George Lucas does not like B&W loudspeakers - Did you also know that some of the top engineers designing B&W speakers prefer Audio Note. You may also know that many studios use many different loudspeakers and most try to ensure that recordings will fit car stereo sound quality best with limited dynamics and seriously compressed sound - sounds like a B&W to me. (That was a bit of a joke but as an ex B&W owner and someone who has heard virtually their entire line shmooze and hard sell dealers and wall to wall advertising and product placement in movies is amusing)

    Like I said - most people never really hear a B&W against anything worthwhile. Most dealers in Canada and the US seem to have B&W at one price point with nothing else worthwhile against it. I am fortunate that I can put a $22k+B&W against a $5-7k Audio Note and let the chips fall where they may.

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    Wink Now that's a good joke...

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    That was a bit of a joke but as an ex B&W owner
    More specifically an ex- B&W DM302 or was it 303 owner, It's huge leap from there to a B&W 803 monitor.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Judging by most people's opinions on the quality of recordings - it might just be that they're using the wrong loudspeakers. B&W gives for free speakers to recording studios in exchange for advertising. .
    True all those recording studios get B&W 800 series speakers for free so they can monitor Mch SACD recordings for use on non-existent SACD car stereos . The Audio Note E is unsuitable for monitoring orchestral recordings because of its limited loudness and dynamic capability. Large format Tannoys and B&Ws are popular in recording studios around the world for practical reasons.
    It's a listening test, you do not need to see it to listen to it!

  10. #10
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Did you also know that some of the top engineers designing B&W speakers prefer Audio Note.
    Who would have thought?
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  11. #11
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Who would have thought?
    It's not really surprising to be working for a company that does not allow you to do the things you want to do because the owner/marketing team wants you to make your speakers fit a look that is highly salable. On the record they will say one thing - off the record they'll say something else, which is completely understandable.

    TAH - When did you get a set of AN E's in a room and directly compared them to a Diamond 800 - I have done this - have you? You probably have never heard either speaker anywhere ever. I have an - do that before you discuss.

    1) So we have a company that sells in large large numbers with heavy marketing like Bose. They give their speakers to recording studios who are out after all to make a buck selling CDs to the masses on stereos that are not very good. A competent speaker is all that is needed - B&W is certainly that. An out for profit recoprding studio will gladly take free speakers.

    2) The majority of speakers are competent so plenty of good reviews for a B&W is acceptable - look nice sound competant to good, big name makes buyers feel safe in their purchase.

    3) They sell more speakers than any other high end maker (Bose is the biggest seller by a wide margin of the speaker makers - in fact Bose sells more than the next five biggest combined).

    4) Virtually all reviewers for all major publications have heard B&W. The percentage of B&W sold to the public versus an Audio Note or a Quad is staggerring and yet the percentage of reviewers who buy Quad or Audio Note yields very interesting results. B&W probably sells in the order of more than 500-1 against AN or Quad or Tannoy prestige etc and yet the people who have actually done the direct listening comparisons have selected the "other one." There-in lies the difference. B&W sells - they are a first rate marketing machine with competant to good loudspeakers, and typically sell against other companies selling the same kind of megacorp speaker makers. Reviewers are fortunate enough to listen to all of those and the smaller makers - and they are buying in a very different ratio. If the B&W's were as good sounding as they are at marketing they would sell to reviewers at a 500-1 rate.

    As Art Dudley said in a recent issue - he has plenty of positive reviews and some where you need to read between the lines - it's when you find out what the reviewer actually lays out the hard cash for when you get a true inkling of what they "really" like.

    Having said that - like I said before - None of this is to suggest that someone won't prefer B&W. My dealer has carried B&W for decades and Audio Note for several years. Of course people will listen to both and some may have preferred the B&W. I do not see their sales receipts but they're the only dealer I know of on the planet that sells both brands - and so the sample size is one.

    I can say that looking at what they have done is shift the B&W line away from Audio Note price points. In other words they carried the 700 and Nautilus line and in head to heads the B&W's didn't sell. So they carry the inexpensive and IMO very good value for the dollar 600 line where Audio Note is not priced (and more importanly for home theater matched set-ups). The same N801 was sold three times and the speaker kept coming back for AN E's - the owner of the store was amused but frustrated at having to lug such heavy speakers back into the store so many times - They stopped selling the N801 completely and now stock the D800 which is over $22k - and even then they moved it as far away as possible making a customer feel a little guilty to request for a head to head challenge - they don't after all want to be stuck with $22k+ speakers forever. The store owner moved his similarly priced E to his own home to avoide that direct competition.

    DO I think the AN E is a better speaker than the B&W D800? Yes a lot better - vastly better, miles better, leagues better.

    Is B&W a bigger selle? Yes a lot bigger - vastly bigger miles bigger, leagues bigger.

    Is B&W used in more recording studios? Lot more, vastly more, miles more, leagues more.

    Have those recording studio engineers who actually listen to speakers heard Audio Note?Lot fewer, vastly fewer, miles fewer, leagues fewer.

    If they heard them would they agree with the majority of the reviewers who have heard the AN E or the people who have heard them in a store that sells both head to head?Lot more, vastly more, miles more, leagues more.
    Last edited by RGA; 11-20-2008 at 10:24 PM.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Your right ! I never heard this stuff, nor do i really care to be honest. I still dont read your posts fully.

    Enjoy
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  13. #13
    RGA
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    Since we're being honest - I'm not terribly surprised.

    enjoy to you as well (that's the point after all)

  14. #14
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    Question Do you have any evidence to back your claim?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    TAH - When did you get a set of AN E's in a room and directly compared them to a Diamond 800 - I have done this - have you? You probably have never heard either speaker anywhere ever. I have an - do that before you discuss.
    So recording studio requirements are the same as your dealer's showroom? And all your experience of these speakers you trash at every opportunity are based on dealer' s showroom demos and your DM303, nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    They give their speakers to recording studios who are out after all to make a buck selling CDs to the masses on stereos that are not very good. A competent speaker is all that is needed - B&W is certainly that. An out for profit recording studio will gladly take free speakers.
    So the masses buy mch sacds for use on 'not very good' stereos I bet Tannoy is also giving away speakers for free, aren't they?
    Here's a quote from B&W site and another quote showing a number of studios that purchased B&W 800 series speakers, do you have anything to back up your claims that most B&W loudspeakers used in recording studios are freebies or is it just word on the street?
    Last edited by theaudiohobby; 11-21-2008 at 08:09 AM. Reason: shortened
    It's a listening test, you do not need to see it to listen to it!

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    A lot of B&W's sales can be attributed to marketing. They associate themselves with Denon and Rotel. You rarely see a store that carries one of these without the other. It's like Rockford used to be with Alpine. And, B&W has built up the name. Nothing wrong with that, after all making money is the name of the game. People begin to buy an item based on rep and status over true listening and performance. Bose, need I say more... Please don't come unhinged, I'm not comparing B&W to Bose, I just use Bose as an example of the type of mindless purchses I'm talking about, in that respect, maybe I am comparing the two. Not that everyone who buys B&W are like that, we all have our own idea of how we want, or think, our music should sound.

    Speakers are a very personal thing to a true audiophile. I'm talking about a person who buys the speaker based on sound solely and cares not what it looks like, not one of those guys who will buy a speaker because it's pretty and he has to please his wife so he compromises. I'm one who buys solely based on sound. I have not heard Audio Note speakers but have heard B&W plenty. Dynaudio, in my opinion wipes the floor with B&W's costing many times more. Driven by Krell or other high quality amps I have yet to hear anything give the impact and transcient response these combos reproduce. I'm talking crescendos so hard I didn't think possible to recreate by electronics. The closest thing to reproducing the snap of real drums I've heard. I'm sure there's many brands of speakers used in recording studios, I haven't been to many to see what was used. Dynaudio makes studio speakers and I'm assuming they are in some studios as they are still making them.

    I feel it's a weakness if a speaker has to be put in a corner to work. That in itself will limit use and sales. AN isn't alone in the woods with a difficult placement though.

    I believe I said this in my thread where I talk about the Sapphires, I have heard the Flagship Evidence and the, at the time, $35k Temptations, dollar per performance comparing the Sapphires to the big brothers, the Sapphires are a stunning value. When I heard them they were driven by Clayton Audio Class A monoblocks, I believe they are about $15k a pair, the rest of the electronics were T+A, the demo was incredible. Dynaudio had better be careful making speakers like the Sapphire at such a price because it becomes hard to justify more than double for a Temptation.

    I also heard the Flagship Diamond series. They were driven by ARC with Classe' monoblocks. This was a very expensive system but one that made me think, "give me the money so I can buy something else". I later heard those Classe' monoblocks with an all Classe system and was very under whelmed so I can't lay all the blame on the B&W's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Your right ! I never heard this stuff, nor do i really care to be honest. I still dont read your posts fully.

    Enjoy
    Pardon this low-life's interruption, but truthfully Florian, you come across as a real elitist prick, did you know that? How sad for you little boy.

  17. #17
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    So recording studio requirements are the same as your dealer's showroom? And all your experience of these speakers you trash at every opportunity are based on dealer' s showroom demos and your DM303, nice.
    No those are not the only times I've heard B&W but it is the only place I know to do a direct comparison - speakers are designed to be operated in homes that is why they are called home audio loudspeakers - not - this only works in a studio with $350,000 worth of treatments and digital Equalization. A dealer room and a room in a person's home is largely the same - maybe not in your town but in my town dealers set-up a room that would be typically found in most houses - some complete with typical furniture. Not a wall of speakers in a cramped space like in England, where sympathetic vibrations are abound that just starts the problems that dealers face of there. Here - one set of speakers properly set-up by the company who builds the speakers - When I listened to the Magnepan 20.1 or the Wilson Sophia - these are professionally designed rooms with proper positioning and room treatments that specifically fit the loudspeaker. Unfortunately that dealer went under.

    I don't trash B&W. I owned the 302 and I owned it because it was a damned fine speaker for the money - it still is. Liking another speaker a lot more is not trashing the B&W - it's a subjective albeit strong subjective preference for one speaker over the other - one that virtually everyone I know of and the very people SELLING both agree with. If you got off your butt and actually bothered to listen to them you would no doubt agree - but since you'd rather have a preference for one speaker you've never heard over another speaker you've never heard that is your choice.

    If you want to infer that B&W is superior because they are used in more sound studios at a higher rate or that they are better because they sell more or for any other reason that is your right.

    But the comments of someone who has not tried them EVER and then tries to say my listening was invalid because I did not listen to them in a particular room is puzzling - I have not ever owned the AN E in my home either and in fact at Soundhounds you are far better able to hear the D800's true capabilities than the AN E over the past several years.

    Quote Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    So the masses buy mch sacds for use on 'not very good' stereos I bet Tannoy is also giving away speakers for free, aren't they?
    Here's a quote from B&W site and another quote showing a number of studios that purchased B&W 800 series speakers, do you have anything to back up your claims that most B&W loudspeakers used in recording studios are freebies or is it just word on the street?
    Virtually all SACD discs are dual encoded with the regular CD format - most shoppers are buying DVD multi-format players from the likes of Sony with the SACD capability thrown in. $200 Sony DVD player with SACD with the customer not realizing what SACD even is - it pumps up the perceived sales of SACD but little more. The actual dedicated players sold peanuts.

    Since I have been unimpressed with all of the SACD multichannel music demos I've heard it does not really impress me that B&W is involved. It does not help their cause. Studios have to use something after all - and many of the better two channel makers simply don't LIKE multichannel set-ups and do not make systems for that technology. Since B&W is very big and well positioned they can offer serious discounts, freebies, special warranty add ons, and kickbacks to studios (especially ones with satellites that will buy in larger bulk). "Free" for all studios no of course not - "free" for ones that help B&W advertise - well you buy our speaker for $14,000.00 and we'll pay you $14,000.00 for the use of your studio name on our website. Technically that isn't free.

    The market is far and away shifted to home theater and the big companies real preference is for home theater pyrotechnics and not musical subtlety - which with mp3 has been killed in the music arena as well.

    As I said earlier - you and anyone else is perfectly within your rights to prefer B&W over Audio Note with or without an audition, for any and all reasons you wish - Makes no difference to me. Since Audio Note is so hopelessly behind on meeting the huge demand - even if you wanted something you would likely have to wait 6 months to 2 years to get it. B&W does not have such problems - one more reason for you in fact not to buy an Audio Note. You dislike the owner, you dislike the writing, the measurements, probably the looks, me, and a host of other things - waiting for it too is another one to add to the list. And hey B&W has more employees to feed, name brand appeal, sexy looks, more owners out there to stroke your ego - definitely buy one of those. Does not even need an audition first - it has to be better because more people buy them.

  18. #18
    RGA
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    Mr. Peabody

    A few points - the AN speakers will not compete with many speakers in sheer slam or SPL of which I think you speak. Thus I am not suggesting they are the right fit for everyone. The corner is a compromise in the sense that many people don't have corners - The company specs the speaker to be used where it believes the best results will occur - corner loading in a certain sized room - arguments over whether it meets those specs have been discussed endlessly with TAH but the hearing of it is more important than whether a bass spec is off a few db or a sensitivity spec is off a few db.

    Don't let the corner scare you off - When I first heard the AN E's they were not in corners - and in fact the AN E is usually the speaker that is set-up the least well - in a room too big or far too small with no treatments and not in corners. I swear the owner of Soundhounds deliberately handcuffs the AN E to make the other stuff that is more ideally set-up have a better chance. Mario of AN came to Soundhounds and when I found out went down to visit. We set the AN's up properly in a basement room the store stopped using for logistic reasons - it took about 20 minutes of positioning and set-up and let er rip at higher SPLs than i would listen at in a fairly big room with three couches behind each other - the first being about 10 feet from the speakers (I don't know the exact dimensions. The speakers were hard in corners with serious toe in such that the drivers were firing a good meter in front of the first couch. 8 watts powering the set-up - clean crisp resolute - quite far and away the best sound that store has produced - They carry some nice gear - no question about it - the 2905 is a special speaker, the Cremona from SF was quite good in their other room with Linn direct streaming technology and top of the line Sim Audio, the Magnepan 20.1 was in the main room that you could not help but notice, the B&W D800 is a sheer work of visual art. It is so nice for a dealer to carry such stuff.

    When and if you ever do hear an AN set-up you will probably notice that it will give up some in the area of sheer macrodynamic impact - it will take your ear to adjust but what may win you over is a kind of inner resolution and trimbral rightness that is awfully appealing and I would say beguiling. Lightning fast transients but less in your face than some and full body decay allowing you to hear the finishing of the last note along with the new one - something that AN DAC owners notice. There is a "lighter" "bouncier" "openness" uncommon with most boxes that seem to me to be trying to get out of their box as if the box was a necessary evil to overcome.

    The Tannoy Westminster is a class act because it captures a lot of what I like about the AN E, it has the cohesiveness nearly down, it's relatively easy to drive and it obviously can play louder with more slam - all day listenable and musical. For a bigger room it would probably be my choice.

    But if you ever want a second stereo for a smaller room (25X25 down) I would definitely try an audition of an AN system - I have probably posted this before but this KevinF fellow had a similar set-up that you have in the respect that he owned top of the line high impact top tier professional loudspeakers and while not a Krell, Top of the line professional grade insanely high powered SS amplification.

    He tried a modest level 3 AN system and wrote about what the Audio Note's give up and what they gained. He writes very well, better than me, http://www.audioasylum.com/reviews/O...al/345133.html

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    I understand some of what you are saying I have the AN 1.1x DAC. It was the first piece of tube gear that I owned. I hooked it to the digital output of my Krell CD player and ended up preferring the AN DAC. I eventually got a transport for the DAC and sold the Krell CD player. The CD player I have now is better and I'm using the AN DAC in a second system. I posted it for sell a couple times but nothing seems to be selling, even used gear.

    The AN 1.1x gives instruments and vocals an organic sound. I heard that adjective used in describing AN gear and didn't understand it until I heard the DAC. There were things the Krell was better at but the sound of the 1.1x just kept drawing me back. When listening to the Krell it never seemed glaring but after listening to the 1.1x for a while and going back to the Krell it did seem to glare. I believe the AN would appeal to those who like a "analog" sound.

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    Smile In otherwords, you do not have anything back up your claim

    RGA

    I take you do not have anything to back your claim of freebie B&W speakers do you?
    Last edited by theaudiohobby; 11-22-2008 at 02:18 AM.
    It's a listening test, you do not need to see it to listen to it!

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    Preferences at play

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    I understand some of what you are saying I have the AN 1.1x DAC. It was the first piece of tube gear that I owned.....
    The AN 1.1x gives instruments and vocals an organic sound. I heard that adjective used in describing AN gear and didn't understand it until I heard the DAC.
    Last time I checked in on an Audio Note DAC (2.1x Signature), I was relieved to come home to the 'organic' sound of the rig I had the time. I think I got home that evening and put on "Miles Davis/Marcus Miller Siesta" and just chilled out To a certain extent, your comment speaks to the heart of how a DAC works, but that's a something for the digital forum. As point of reference, fully over 70% of my listening time is classical and jazz, so good instrument and vocal tone is very important to me. I am listening to Horowitz playing Mozart Sonata (K330) as I write this.
    It's a listening test, you do not need to see it to listen to it!

  22. #22
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    RGA

    I take you do not have anything to back your claim of freebie B&W speakers do you?
    I could but Mr. Qvortrup is in your neck of the woods and was willing to have you sit down and talk with B&W engineers about their preferences in loudspeakers and while there could tell you about the "freebies" - since you were too afraid to do that why would it be any different from my end. Why would I take up my time when you have proven to be a no show.

    And when I asked for the serial number on the back of your AN K you claimed to own - you could not provide the information - even though it was supposedly sitting in your home.

    And even here - you obfuscate the issue of sound quality by changing it to something unrelated since you have not auditioned either product and I suspect no Audio Note product ever - and certainly not the D800 then I understand why you would shift the topic to something other than sound quality and preference.

    Interestingly the obfuscation is still irrelevant because even if the RE chooses the loudspeaker and his company pays top dollar for the speaker that still does not address quality or the RE's experience, hearing, level. The RE is a technician who is well versed in mathematics but is still in the same boat as the home consumer - and advertising is still paramount in those pages. Democracies are wonderful but not always right. The fact that most people buy Nike or that most studios use HD 580 headphones does not in fact make them the best or subjectively preferable to something else.

    I am a little perplexed by your reasoning TAH - more people buy it so it must be better? I find the obfuscation amusing when even the B&W designers went to Peter for help. And hell Quad hired Andy Grove. I have to hand it to both those companies - they actually bothered to listen and they liked what they heard. I understand why B&W could not take the advice - the AN look is just not saleable to the masses and studios could not possibly put up with tube amplification downtime where studio time is exorbitant.

    And as you quite correctly note in your sig line - that you don't need to see it - but as you know many people buy with their eyes - The B&W engineers prefer what they heard with their ears but they know full well that people = especially males - and I have mountains of education support for this - are visual creatures. B&W could not possibly sell the AN look even with nicer wood finishes - the form is far more important to the sale - whether it is a male buying it for his house or a male buying it for his recording studio.

    I am surprised that you don't believe B&W is trying to sell the aesthetic over substance to the predominantly male buyer.
    Last edited by RGA; 11-22-2008 at 04:08 AM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    Last time I checked in on an Audio Note DAC (2.1x Signature), I was relieved to come home to the 'organic' sound of the rig I had the time. I think I got home that evening and put on "Miles Davis/Marcus Miller Siesta" and just chilled out To a certain extent, your comment speaks to the heart of how a DAC works, but that's a something for the digital forum. As point of reference, fully over 70% of my listening time is classical and jazz, so good instrument and vocal tone is very important to me. I am listening to Horowitz playing Mozart Sonata (K330) as I write this.
    What digital playback do you have that would sound more natural than the 2.1? There may be players that sound better or preferrable but I doubt you have one that sounds more natural (what I mean by organic). AN whether you like them or not have something with their "no filter" technology.

    Miles/Marcus together I'll have to check that out.

  24. #24
    It's just a hobby
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    Question What's this something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    ... but I doubt you have one that sounds more natural (what I mean by organic). AN whether you like them or not have something with their "no filter" technology.
    What's this 'something with their "no filter" technology?
    It's a listening test, you do not need to see it to listen to it!

  25. #25
    Forum Regular winston's Avatar
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    hello everyone, can i ask you all about (ENERGY SPEAKERS) their new models namely the C500

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