• 04-25-2004, 10:21 AM
    dackers
    Help - need floorstanders to eliminate sub woofer
    I am looking to buy a pair of floor standers that will remove the need for a sub woofer.

    My set up is Acurus Cd, Sony DVPS 7700 dvd (changing both of those for single player - lexicon RT10 or linn Unidisk 2.1) Lexicon DC1 processor (THX / Dolby digitial version) and Sunfire cinema grand amplifier. Speakers are Legacy studios for left and right with a velodyne sub. centre will be changed to match the foor standers.

    I have a large room 20 feet by 20 feet approx, but my wife is sick of the sight of the large black box that is the velodyne.

    I listen to a lot of music plus home cinema so need a good all round solution. I am yet to do any real listening tests but, based on some web research, am considering the Dynaudio 82's, PMC OB1's or ATC SCM 35's and would really appreciate hearing from anyone who has used any of the above speakers for similar purposes without a sub and their thoughts.

    Best,
    Paul.
  • 04-25-2004, 10:38 AM
    pelly3s
    there aren't too many speakers that will remove the need for a sub, you can always find some that have the sub built into them though. I haven't had much experience with those though. maybe you need to just find a different option like a better looking sub
  • 04-25-2004, 10:58 AM
    calvinv
    I'd suggest definitive technology........they're powered towers are meaty, and you won't need no subs
  • 04-25-2004, 11:54 AM
    92135011
    Depends what you mean by a sub
    Most subwoofers dont even go to the sub frequencies. Most I have seen in the market only go down to about 25hz.
    Hardly any towers go down to the subfrequencies though...so it will be hard to find any that will get rid of the use of a sub. Although, subwoofer integration is difficult so I can see the need to "get rid of the sub"
  • 04-25-2004, 12:03 PM
    N. Abstentia
    Even with powered towers, the subs will never sound as good as a seperate sub due to placement and quality issues.
  • 04-25-2004, 05:01 PM
    Pat D
    WAF can be a problem.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dackers
    I am looking to buy a pair of floor standers that will remove the need for a sub woofer.

    My set up is Acurus Cd, Sony DVPS 7700 dvd (changing both of those for single player - lexicon RT10 or linn Unidisk 2.1) Lexicon DC1 processor (THX / Dolby digitial version) and Sunfire cinema grand amplifier. Speakers are Legacy studios for left and right with a velodyne sub. centre will be changed to match the foor standers.

    I have a large room 20 feet by 20 feet approx, but my wife is sick of the sight of the large black box that is the velodyne.

    I listen to a lot of music plus home cinema so need a good all round solution. I am yet to do any real listening tests but, based on some web research, am considering the Dynaudio 82's, PMC OB1's or ATC SCM 35's and would really appreciate hearing from anyone who has used any of the above speakers for similar purposes without a sub and their thoughts.

    Best,
    Paul.

    I would first suggest putting the sub where it is less visible, if possible. The best place for a sub is usually in or near a corner, which gives the flattest and deepest response. As long as the crossover is below 80 Hz, this should work fine in most rooms. It doesn't have to be near the main speakers. I have had mine in a rear corner, which worked well, and currently have it in a corner beside the sofa, where it has dried flowers and a little bric-a-brac on top of it. Most people don't notice that it's a sub.

    If I could manage to keep the sub, I would, because the sub can be placed where the bass response is best, and the main speakers can be placed where the image is best--these are usually not the same places. This gives you more freedom to choose speakers you like, since you don't have to require super deep bass from them.

    If that doesn't solve the Wife Acceptance Factor problem, you may look for speakers with high output capability in the deep bass, such as the PSB Stratus Gold-i or a Mirage 7 which are good well below 30 Hz. Some of the VMPS speakers apparently are good to below 20 Hz, and some speakers with built in powered subwoofers such as the larger Definitive Technology speakers or the Mirage 5 are known for this, too, for example.
  • 04-25-2004, 07:45 PM
    Mr Peabody
    If you have one of the good Velodyne subs there isn't a floorstander that will replace that experience, unless it's the Dynaudio Evidence. If your wife don't like a little black box, I don't think she would like a 7 foot floorstander and the $85k price tag :) Bass, especially sub bass, is non-directional to the ear, you should be able to find a place to tuck the sub out of sight. Velodyne is one of the smallest boxed subs I'm aware of. Can you put it behind the entertainment center, a chair or couch? Perhaps under an end table. How would it look beside your current speakers facing forward? If none of this works, the amplified speakers would be worth a try, Several manufacturers offer these now but most are mass market brands. I don't use a sub for music and I have Dyn's. With music I am quite satisfied with the bass. I have always had a sub for home theater so I can't really say if they would be adequate. I'd guess they would be adequate but not to the point where you wouldn't miss that sub. I would really try to hide the sub and maybe just use it for HT.
  • 04-26-2004, 03:33 AM
    jeskibuff
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dackers
    my wife is sick of the sight of the large black box

    Why not try to camouflage it?

    How about something like one of those Japanese-style room screens?

    You could custom build one simply. Just make 3 cross-braced panels about 3 foot high out of something like 1"x1/2" wood stock and hinge them together, stretching fabric across each wooden frame. Have your wife pick out the fabric. Tuck the sub in a corner and set the screen around it.

    Voila! No more ugly black sub to look at!

    But, you can still hear the sucker! ;)
  • 04-26-2004, 03:42 AM
    kexodusc
    Dude, you gotta lay the law down, and tell your wife how it is!!! Let her know that you are the boss and the Velodyne stays - don't make her choose between you and the sub, because she's got to realize she can't possibly win!!!
    Tell her to keep her mouth shut and appreciate all the hard work you did just to be able to put together such a nice sounding system for BOTH of your enjoyment, how considerate you are, and how insensitive she's being!!!

    Err - let me know how you make out with that! :)
  • 04-26-2004, 06:35 AM
    bturk667
    How much money are you intrested in spending?
  • 04-26-2004, 08:10 AM
    Bryan
    The least expensive option was mentioned previously. Camouflage the sub. Fake trees around it, perhaps? You may also consider having it repainted or stained. This is, of course, assuming the color/look is the problem.

    In almost all cases a sub is a requirement for HT. You could show her some of the other offerings from companies such as SVS, HSU, VMPS, Adire Audio, ACI, and Onix to see what she says. Another option could be to build a coffee or end table sub.

    It is still much cheaper to hide the sub than to spend several thousand dollars for new speakers and still have to buy a sub.
  • 04-26-2004, 10:03 AM
    erics0531
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bryan
    It is still much cheaper to hide the sub than to spend several thousand dollars for new speakers and still have to buy a sub.

    Yeah, I'd agree with this completely. Try to work something out either hiding or at least finding an inconspicuous spot for it, or trading it out for a sub that she can live with. The sub just adds so much to the home theater experience that I think you'll be disappointed even with some fairly expensive towers.
  • 04-26-2004, 03:27 PM
    Geoffcin
    It's not going to be easy.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dackers
    I am looking to buy a pair of floor standers that will remove the need for a sub woofer.

    My set up is Acurus Cd, Sony DVPS 7700 dvd (changing both of those for single player - lexicon RT10 or linn Unidisk 2.1) Lexicon DC1 processor (THX / Dolby digitial version) and Sunfire cinema grand amplifier. Speakers are Legacy studios for left and right with a velodyne sub. centre will be changed to match the foor standers.

    I have a large room 20 feet by 20 feet approx, but my wife is sick of the sight of the large black box that is the velodyne.

    I listen to a lot of music plus home cinema so need a good all round solution. I am yet to do any real listening tests but, based on some web research, am considering the Dynaudio 82's, PMC OB1's or ATC SCM 35's and would really appreciate hearing from anyone who has used any of the above speakers for similar purposes without a sub and their thoughts.

    Best,
    Paul.


    Almost no passive speaker will be able to create the LF effects that you can get from your Velodyne sub. For audio any of the speakers you have named would be great, but as a stand alone for use with no sub in an HT set up they will not recreat the dynamics you are used to.

    My reccomendation is that you look into a powered main speaker. I am using Cambridge Soundworks T500. It uses a powered woofer and a 300 watt amplifer. It is capable of the dynamics of a powered sub without a sub. There's several other companies that make powered speakers, but the T500 fit the bill for my HT setup.
  • 04-27-2004, 12:20 AM
    92135011
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Dude, you gotta lay the law down, and tell your wife how it is!!! Let her know that you are the boss and the Velodyne stays - don't make her choose between you and the sub, because she's got to realize she can't possibly win!!!
    Tell her to keep her mouth shut and appreciate all the hard work you did just to be able to put together such a nice sounding system for BOTH of your enjoyment, how considerate you are, and how insensitive she's being!!!

    Err - let me know how you make out with that! :)

    Does this work?
    Man, when if I get married, I'm gonna need a house that has its own listening room.
    Then, out of every paycheck, hide some of it for new and replacement stuff (carts, belts, super comfy lazyboy recliner). Then ask a friend to help me buy it so it doesnt appear on my credit card statement. You guys make it seem like marriage is a real downer... Seriously, is it that bad? or is it just the odd wife that doesnt like the "big black box"? The other day I asked my girlfriends opinion as a test. Go for the nice looks and ok sound or go for the uglier looks but good sound. She said to me "you are buying this to listen to, not look at. You know the answer." I suppose that changes once you start living with them eh?

    How low does the velodyne go?
    If you dont mind plain looks, Audio Note's E speaker goes to 16hz -6dB.
    Of course this is according to corner placement as AN suggests. They were made for corner placement so you wont get the same boom boom bass as speakers made to have lots of open space between them.

    Happy hunting.