Help me choose my first (used) speakers

[sjtm]

Yep, it's hard to put into words but the Focals have an "excitement". Get the 714's, their new and not much more than the used models you looked at. Your amp should sound better than the receiver. Have you received it yet? Plus, I bet the 714 would still have original warranty.

I wonder what his issue with Wharfedale was, but I haven't heard them in a few years. It may just be the Focals and B&W just outclassed them, and a better value for you.

The 714V are new leftovers (in the box) - probably no warranty. However, they are $775 ( no tax free shipping vs 714 @ $1,380 including tax. Do you think the 714 are worth the $600 difference?

BTW - how is Sherman?

[Mr Peabody]

I meant the 714v at $775.00. It would be hard to say if the mew model is worth the $600.00 or so difference without direct comparison. I'm inclined to think not. We have a Focal dealer and I've heard a few models but not knowledgeable enough to know about the changes made to various models.

Sherman is well, basically a good lad but can be a challenge at time

[blackraven]

Sheesh, I have never heard the B&W 683's as dull or boring. They are a dynamic and detailed speaker with a great tweeter that some find have too much energy. They do have great air and transparency which you may be mistaking for being dull. They respond well to high end amplification and preamps. Maybe they did not pair well with the amp or music that was playing. I suspect that they were not positioned properly. Here is a good review on the 683 S2's backing me up-
B&W 683 S2 review | What Hi-Fi?

PSB speakers can be described as laid back. They have a warmth and liquidity about them. The T5's are certainly not lacking bass. They dip down to 38Hz and need proper amplification. It does not sound like PSB's would be a good match for your tastes.

Paradigms might be up your alley as they are a lively sounding speaker.

The Focal's are a good choice and seem to have the sound you are looking for. It is all a personal choice . Check their bass specs, they are rated at 52Hz, make sure you give them a good listen and it is deep enough for your tastes.

It looks like you are putting together a nice system there.

[sjtm]

I meant the 714v at $775.00. It would be hard to say if the mew model is worth the $600.00 or so difference without direct comparison. I'm inclined to think not. We have a Focal dealer and I've heard a few models but not knowledgeable enough to know about the changes made to various models.

Sherman is well, basically a good lad but can be a challenge at time

He always was precocious, but a bit naive.

[sjtm]

Sheesh, I have never heard the B&W 683's as dull or boring. They are a dynamic and detailed speaker with a great tweeter that some find have too much energy. They do have great air and transparency which you may be mistaking for being dull. They respond well to high end amplification and preamps. Maybe they did not pair well with the amp or music that was playing. I suspect that they were not positioned properly.

PSB speakers can be described as laid back. They have a warmth and liquidity about them. The T5's are certainly not lacking bass. They dip down to 38hz and need proper amplification. It does not sound like PSB's would be a good match for your tastes.

Paradigms might be up your alley as they are a lively sounding speaker.

The Focal's are a good choice and seem to have the sound you are looking for. It is all a personal choice .

It looks like you are putting together a nice system there.

Like much of the rest of me, my ears may be past their prime - a little excitement can go a long way. I am feeling ok with my choices at the moment, thanks to everyone's feedback.

[Mr Peabody]

A quick look around, it seems the 714v has slightly larger woofers, like 1 or so cm, people really like them in customer reviews. The 714 has an "improved" tweeter". Both models seem to be well regarded amongst owners. If wanting to stick in a budget I'd say the 714v would be a good deal.

[sjtm]

Just when I thought I had this put to bed, other options have emerged. A dealer in my area has a pair of Focal Chorus 716V speakers in stock, new in the box, that he will sell for $800, just $25 more than the 714v's that I found (also new in box). The 716v have larger drivers (6.5" vs 5"). Design concept is the same(2.5 way), The FR for the 714v is 52-28k , the 716v is 41-28k, sensitivity is 714v@91; 716v @91.5; minimum impedance is 714v@4.1 716V @4.3, minimum recommended wattage is 714v =25w; 716V=40w.

I have a concern that the higher wattage requirements of the 716v may be an issue for my 60w amp, but the tradeoff could be a fuller bass presentation. The dealer actually said the 716v would be easier to drive and have a fuller sound, but the 714v would have more clarity. It has the added benefit of supporting a local retailer (not a big box) but I do not think I can demo them at this price. It is possible they may have the current 716 to demo.

In truth, I have not heard the 714v either, just the current model (714). But the specs are identical, as are the 716 and 716v.

To add another complication, the seller of the used Paradigm Monitor 7 V4 sent me an email that these are still for sale. The price is $500 less than the Focals. While advertised as "mint", they are still at least 10+ years old and I am not sure it is apples to apples to compare to the Focals. They are a two hour drive away and the only motivation would be to hold onto my original intent of "low cost quality". But if the Monitors can compete on sound quality with the Focals, or if the Focal sound is not "$500 better",I will make the drive.

Anyone ever listen to or , better yet, compare one or more of these options

[blackraven]

I would go with the Focal 716's, they will have better bass, deeper and fuller but your room size does come into play. Don't pay any attention to the wattage specs. With a sensitivity of 91.5dB they will play very loud with the high current Marantz.

The Focal 716's sell for almost $1500pr and the Paradigms sold for $700pr. Just on price alone, the Focal's should sound better. I always recommend to buy the best that you are comfortable with. Either speaker should sound good. But just remember that speakers make the most difference in sound.

Good Luck

[sjtm]

Good advice.

[Mr Peabody]

Yeah, the M7's don't look like that great of deal at 10 years old. Half price and still in the box looks like a good deal, and only $25.00 for the next model up, meaning 716v over 714v

Good advice.

[sjtm]

Commitment is a good thing. Especially in the form of a pair of 716v's. The dealer was happy to let me demo them. Initially I liked the sound of the 714's better - actually a little brighter, which was to be expected given the smaller drivers. But after a while the qualities of the 716v's began to emerge. Still great clarity, but a fuller sound that I decided better represented the recording. Are there better speakers? Yes. Are there better $800 speakers? Not in my house!

So I blew through my initial $1,000 budget (ended up at $1,600), but I ended up with all new equipment with full manufacturer's warranties at just a hair over half of the list price and I think a system that will serve me well for many years.

Still will not get to hear it all together until at least the weekend - need to rearrange some things in the room and order some cables. I am going to buy the Blue Jeans cables - just need to figure out lengths.

One quesion - I saw photos online of these and other speakers sitting on what appear to be granite slabs. What is the purpose? Stability or sound attenuation? My room has wall to wall carpet ( tight berber weave) over concrete slab ( basement) so no hardwood floor to consider.

[Mr Peabody]

As long as your speakers have spikes that make contact with the concrete you are fine. I actually have carpet over concrete myself.

Let us know how you like the system. I think you'll be happy.

[blackraven]

Congrats on the great system! Give it time to break in and play around with positioning of the speakers using tape to mark the spots.

Play around with running the Cd player into the amp's analog inputs as well as using the digital out's of the player into the digital input of the amps DAC and see which you prefer. I imaging they will sound the same but there might be slight differences that you prefer.

Please let us know how things progress. You won't be sorry spending the extra money but you would have been sorry in not getting the sound that you wanted.

Best Regards,

Larry

[recoveryone]

Just glancing through the threads, but I hear no talk about the room itself. We all know the room size and make up play a more important role than make and model of any speaker. The right speakers in the right room is what you should be looking for, some speakers may be too much for the room size and not give you that seemless image of left and right. While another may be bass heavy or sound thin, not that they are bad speakers, just not a good fit for that room.

Its really a lot of trial and error and more of what you like to hear from your system.

IMHO

[sjtm]

Well the trial is coming, with my wife as judge, jury and, possibly executioner. But that only is due to not consulting her prior to laying claim to a small outpost in our home for my personal pleasure. Under the circumstances, I will accept any error, if
I survive the trial.

As Vince Lombardi said: “Gentlemen, we will chase perfection, and we will chase it relentlessly, knowing all the while we can never attain it. But along the way, we shall catch excellence.” I am getting there.

[sjtm]

Have not purchased any cables yet, but came across some old speaker wire in the workroom last night. My guess is it is from a roll of Monster speaker wire I bought many years ago. No markings, but I am guessing it is 14awg based on pictures online.

Hooked everything up this am before work - very good , but not great sound. Soundstage is very good. Treble separation breaks down a little bit in busy passages. Bass is present but not in your face still sounded fuller when demoed. I am sure room acoustics and speaker position are playing some part in this, but I hope a lot has to do with speaker break in, as these are right out of the box. I have only listened for about 20 minutes so far. I doubt the cables have much to do with this as the longest run is only 11'.

I read an article that said break in has the most impact on the spiders by developing micro cracks, making them flex more responsively. Focal recommends 20 hours minimum, but some say 100 hours+. I plan to try to run these in over the next two weeks without causing micro cracks to form in my noggin ( or major cracks caused by spousal retaliation).

[blackraven]

Be patient with the speakers. As they break in over the first 25-100 hours things will greatly improve. Your electronics will also break in. Getting some decent interconnects will help with the treble as well. 14g speaker wire is fine but you can always upgrade to a higher quality wire which may or may not help. Blue Jean Belden wire has a good clean sound and you can pick up the unterminated 12g wire for 0.52 cents a foot. I run their 10g for my reference system because of the high current that my Magnepan speakers use.

What interconnects are you using now? The cheap RCA IC's that come with gear seam to smear high frequencies IMHO.

I would play around with speaker position after about 25 hours of break in.

Don't forget that your in store demo had different room acoustics and different electronics.

After the first 100 hours if you still feel the need for bass you can add a sub. There are plenty of good budget or used subs that will do a nice job.

If you and your wife work, leave the system running with the CD player on repeat while you are gone for the day. This will hasten break in. Put on some very dynamic music.

[sjtm]

Be patient with the speakers. As they break in over the first 25-100 hours things will greatly improve. Your electronics will also break in. Getting some decent interconnects will help with the treble as well. 14g speaker wire is fine but you can always upgrade to a higher quality wire which may or may not help. Blue Jean Belden wire has a good clean sound and you can pick up the unterminated 12g wire for 0.52 cents a foot. I run their 10g for my reference system because of the high current that my Magnepan speakers use.

What interconnects are you using now? The cheap RCA IC's that come with gear seam to smear high frequencies IMHO.

I would play around with speaker position after about 25 hours of break in.

Don't forget that your in store demo had different room acoustics and different electronics.

After the first 100 hours if you still feel the need for bass you can add a sub. There are plenty of good budget or used subs that will do a nice job.

If you and your wife work, leave the system running with the CD player on repeat while you are gone for the day. This will hasten break in. Put on some very dynamic music.

My indentured servitude has afforded my wife the luxury of not working for a very long time ( although, based on how my kids are turning out she has definitely put in untold hours on that project). I am patient and will look forward to tinkering with the sound over time. The bass if fine as is, but I anticipate it will fill out more with time.

I am using the patch cord supplied with the cd player. I saw that BJC sells those as well. Based on the very simple wiring I need, I think I will opt to by some of their Belden 12 or 10 awg wire without plugs and just use the bare connections for now.

[blackraven]

Get the BJC LC-1 RCA interconnects for your CD player. They are well made and you will have to pay about $100pr to get a comparable cable. You can't go wrong for $30pr.

Stereo Cables at Blue Jeans Cable

Their digital coax and HDMI cables are great as well. I own a few.

[Mr Peabody]

Your speakers will definitely have a break in period. The voice coils have to loosen up. Unless some break in was done before boxing I doubt 20-25 hours will do much, you'll hear them coming in some after about 100 hours.

I don't remember my Revels having a real long break in but I did play the tuner on a mono station for about a week while at work. I had a set of Dynaudio speakers that took months. I knew what to expect as I auditioned a pair but I think I drove the dealer crazy with questions until they finally began to come around.

[sjtm]

This is just my taste but I would lean toward the Focal. I've heard them be slightly bright, not harsh, on some electronics but they can boogie. That's my pick from the lot.

Next would be a toss up between the B&W or Monitor 7's, I'd have to hear them to decide.

I would strongly urge you to pick the models you could get some type of audition of. Listen for balance, you don't want anything really jumping out at you like too strong bass or highs, especially highs as you may find yourself with listening fatigue down the road that will put you on the audio marry-go-round looking for another speaker. I like my speakers to reveal detail but sometimes there has to be a balance between detail and what you enjoy. The thing is while you listen, do you find yourself engaged in the music, being drawn in, like, don't bother me now or I can't wait to see what my next favorite recording sounds like.

Also, keep in mind recordings vary wildly so play a bet of a variety and things you think sound good. Some of those Joe Bonamasa albums sound pretty good, I hope if you are a Blues guy you have some Joe.

Forgot to mention i am longtime Bonamassa fan. My catalogue is almost complete going all the way back to Bloodlines. While some efforts get limited play others are in regular rotation. Also a fan of kenny Wayne Shephard, Warren Haynes, johnny Winter Buddy Guy, BB , Albert and of course SRV. I have played guitar ( badly) for almost 50 years and had the pleasure of seeing most of the greats perform live when venues were clubs not stadiums. Ihave a lot of room in my heart for most guitarists from John Mayer to Andy McKee.

My biggest problem at the moment is turning off the music. Three 6 hour listening sessions since Thursday.

[blackraven]

I am a Bonamassa fan and have seen him live in a small venue here in Minnesota.

I like Buddy Guy, Junior Wells and BB King. I have seen all three live. I am a fan of Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker.

I love to listen to acoustic guitar on my Maggies from Pat Metheny, Ry Cooder and Billy McLaughlin

[sjtm]

Never seen Bonamossa live- missed him when he came to town last year. If your tastes include Metheny, let me suggest an artist / album you may enjoy - I have been using it to break in my Focals: Antonio Forcione - Ghetto Paradise. I think this is among his most interesting recordings.

[Mr Peabody]

6 hour listening sessions, sounds like you did good with picking your gear.

[sjtm]

I would listen longer, but my wife says it is ant- social behavior.( I don't need no stinkin society). Actually cannot stop digging into decades of cd's that I have not listened to in years. Aja, Brothers in Arms, Chaka Khan, Leo Kotke, Tubular Bells...it is almost as if I am hearing them for the first time. Much fun.

Placed my order for BJC LC1 innerconnects and some 10awg wire. Hopefully will get it by the weekend.