• 08-16-2004, 08:58 PM
    Motoracer5
    Good Speakers for Metal/Rock/Blues?
    So far my three choices have been KEF 104.2, PSB Sratus Goldi and Paradigm Studio 100's. I have heard all 3 in different rooms with different amplification. Right now im rather torn between the 100's and Goldi/104.2. The 100's seemed to have better slam and tightness in the bass, while the other 2 where smoother sounding. Can anyone recomend a speakers around 1200-1300*Used(Canadian) that can play loud, smooth and sound big? Thanks for any help!
  • 08-17-2004, 07:20 AM
    goatspeed
    Give Monitor Audio Silver S10's a try.
  • 08-17-2004, 07:28 AM
    topspeed
    For the type of music you like, I'd pay close attention to that "smoother" sound as it could be less fatiguing over the long haul. While I love rock as much as the next guy (just saw Van Halen a couple of days ago) an aggressive speaker can put too much edge on it. I'm not saying the Studio did this, I'd simply recommend a longer audition of all speakers under consideration before you plunk down your hard earned cash.

    There are a lot of good speakers, including the ones you've mentioned. Infinity's Primus speaker just received a nice review in TAS (if that means anything to you) and Athena's are well respected and can rock. I'd also find some Energy's as well as DefTech. The DT's powered subs could give you the viceral slam you need for rock. If you already have a sub, this may not be that important. Are any of these better than what you've heard? You tell us.

    Good luck and enjoy the search.
  • 08-17-2004, 07:32 AM
    tullymars
    I would go with Polk,maybe some rti8's or 10's
  • 08-17-2004, 02:12 PM
    jamison
    give Klipsch a listen
    I have a pair of Klipsch RF-7's that are great with that kind of music, I got my girlfriend a pair of RF-5's in cherry finish and they are in your price range definatly worth a listen. what ever brand you choose just make sure you can auditon them somewhere. bring cds you are familiar with and spend a lot of time doing critical listening. not everyones ear is the same. some people like me that are tone deaf need the brighter sound of a Klipsch.
    I find the RFS to be very accurate.

    good luck
  • 08-17-2004, 02:34 PM
    Motoracer5
    thanks
    Looks like i have to get off my ass and audition more speakers. Saw some Energy C-9 on canuckaudiomart.com for $1000, guess i could gave those a try. Im listening to Athena AS-F2 right now, loud and dynamic, but have more harshness in the midrange than my Paradigm Mini-Monitor.ver2 . Has anyone here heard Von Schweikert VR-1s? they sound rather interesting from what i have read about them, but sadly i cant audition them anywhere around where i live. Thanks for the great replys !
  • 08-17-2004, 03:58 PM
    Geoffcin
    I know one guy with VR-1's
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Motoracer5
    Looks like i have to get off my ass and audition more speakers. Saw some Energy C-9 on canuckaudiomart.com for $1000, guess i could gave those a try. Im listening to Athena AS-F2 right now, loud and dynamic, but have more harshness in the midrange than my Paradigm Mini-Monitor.ver2 . Has anyone here heard Von Schweikert VR-1s? they sound rather interesting from what i have read about them, but sadly i cant audition them anywhere around where i live. Thanks for the great replys !

    And I'm sure he would reccomend them! The mistake most often made with rock/metal is that the speakers should be "hot". Actually, you really want a speaker that's punchy, and is very dynamic across it's entire range. A "hot" speaker will sound good for a few minutes, but will become grating for extended listening. Make sure you audition speakers for more than one song to be sure.
  • 08-17-2004, 04:21 PM
    RGA
    I don't think the Studio 100 or the Stratus Gold are any better than the Energy C9 - they both cost a helluva lot more however.

    Fully agree with Geoffcin that you don't want a hot or buright speaker - IMO with metal it's almost even doubly as important to NOT have a bright speaker because there is generally a lot of cymbals at high dynamic levels. A good speaker will be right at home with Aerosmith, Motley Crue, Megadeth as it will be with Enya and Beethoven.

    The VR1 is a standmount - and won't produce what I think you're going to want - most standmounts can't do any hard music (complex classical or heavy rock or anything with synthesizer bass) to realistic levels. But then not everyone listens to metal or complex classical music or pedal organ - why pay for what you don''t need?
  • 08-17-2004, 04:58 PM
    goatspeed
    What kind of metal do you like? I'm a big metalheal myself.
  • 08-17-2004, 09:26 PM
    Motoracer5
    metal
    nothing to extreme.... Tool, Pantera, Megadeth, Black Label Society, Iron Maiden, Dream Theatre, APC, Metallica, RATM.. stuff along those lines
  • 08-17-2004, 10:36 PM
    topspeed
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Motoracer5
    Has anyone here heard Von Schweikert VR-1s? they sound rather interesting from what i have read about them, but sadly i cant audition them anywhere around where i live. Thanks for the great replys !

    I don't know if I'm the guy Geoff is referring to but I use VR-1's on my bedroom rig. While they are without a doubt the best standmount I've heard under $2K...maybe $3K?...I wouldn't recommend them to you for rockin' out unless your planning to add a very high quality sub (VSA's VRS-1 is a winner) or your room isn't very large. Let me qualify this: While the VR-1's are supremely dynamic, throw a huge soundstage, and sport bang-on mids and highs without fatigue, the bottom line is that they are still standmounts and won't "bring it" with the spl's that I feel rock needs to really cook. Hey, waddaya want from a 13lb monitor?! If you paired them with a sub, you'd really be onto something but I don't see how you can fit this within your budget, even with a street price of $675-$850USD new and $550-650USD used. The challenge is that the VR-1's are so fast, you'll need an equally expeditious sub, and those don't come cheap. If you're not in a rush, might I suggest you audition a pair and see first and foremost if you like their sound. If you do, then save your nickels and try to pick up a pair of VR2's which possess an unreal (for their size) bottom end and would rock with the best of them. I'm talkin' real, viceral bass to 25hz. THAT's what you need for rock.

    BTW, congrats Geoff on choosing to be moderator. You're perfect for the job and I have the utmost confidence and respect in your judgement.
  • 08-18-2004, 02:45 AM
    Geoffcin
    Thanks for the vote of confidence Topspeed! I'm going to try to be as transparent a moderator as I can. Yes, it was your opinion of your VR1's that I was referring to. I like monitors for rock. As silly as it sounds, even with all my speakers, I still PREFER listening to rock on my computer rig with my little CSW monitors. I've been know to blast Tool, and NIN on occasion too. Also my newest favorite "rock" rig is my newest addition to the family; My new Mustang GT convert! It's got a Mach 460 soundsystem that totally destroys the system in the Honda.
  • 08-18-2004, 03:54 AM
    drseid
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Thanks for the vote of confidence Topspeed! I'm going to try to be as transparent a moderator as I can. Yes, it was your opinion of your VR1's that I was referring to. I like monitors for rock. As silly as it sounds, even with all my speakers, I still PREFER listening to rock on my computer rig with my little CSW monitors. I've been know to blast Tool, and NIN on occasion too. Also my newest favorite "rock" rig is my newest addition to the family; My new Mustang GT convert! It's got a Mach 460 soundsystem that totally destroys the system in the Honda.


    Admittedly this will most likely take up every cent of your budget, but I would recommend a pair of used Legacy Audio Classics if you can find them. You can frequently find them on Audiogon for about $1200 US, and maybe with some negotiation you can get them for $1300 CAN.

    The Classics offer some great bang for the buck used, and they get down to 22 HZ, so they can hammer out the low bass with the best of them in the below 2K US used price range. Also, they have a very nice Eton kevlar midrange driver that should make them a good fit for the blues as well.

    ---Dave
  • 08-18-2004, 04:06 AM
    HokieVT
    Nothing will ever beat a pair of old school Cerwin Vegas for metal. Sigh!
  • 08-18-2004, 04:07 AM
    psonic
    See if there's an Energy dealer in your area (see link below)...you won't be dissapointed...the Connoisseur C-5 with a with the excellent 1" aluminum tweeter and dual 6.5in woofers goes for ~$699 and is very well rounded, with plenty of bass extension. I have spent considerable time with that speaker, it is a steal in that price range. A subwoofer is not required w/ this speaker as you'll see in the reviews below. Listen to as many speakers as you can before deciding, but this is a standout next to any floorstander under a grand. I have not heard the C-9, but I am sure that can rock as well. You may find yourself saving $100s over the others and using the rest on a good amp, etc. Take your time and listen to as much as you can, and keep us posted!

    speaker
    http://www.energy-speakers.com/conno...kers1_c-5.html

    dealer locator
    http://www.energy-speakers.com/deale...r_locator.html

    reviews
    http://www.energy-speakers.com/prod_...r_reviews.html
  • 08-18-2004, 11:22 AM
    Woochifer
    Whether or not the hotter high edge is an asset or liability depends on 1) your personal preferences; and 2) your room. An acoustically dead room with lots of absorption all over the place (thick rugs, uneven wall surfaces, odd shapes, lots of cushions and foam everywhere), will benefit from a speaker that's a bit more forward sounding. If you have a reflective room with hard surfaces everywhere, then the smoother sounding speaker will probably work better for you. You really won't know until you try them out at home.

    I think the other thing that you want to listen for is how the imaging cues come out from each pair of speakers. This can be tricky because you need to play around with the speaker positioning and the room acoustics will affect this as well. For both PSB and Paradigm, the imaging is definitely an asset, so do your own comparisons because that part of it can be just as important as the tonal characteristcs.
  • 08-18-2004, 01:40 PM
    goatspeed
    Quote:

    nothing to extreme.... Tool, Pantera, Megadeth, Black Label Society, Iron Maiden, Dream Theatre, APC, Metallica, RATM.. stuff along those lines
    Oh that's plenty extreme:) I listen to all those plus some newer stuff like Slipknot, StaticX, and Disturbed. My favorite metal is Type O Negative. Ever hear them? They can really test a speaker. I'm a big Megadeth fan too..the old stuff of course. I'd say about 70% of my music listening is metal or at least hard rock (long live GnR), so that's mostly what I demo'd with. My favorite speakers during the tests ranged from Infinity Kappa 600's to Klipsch RF series, to B&W 604's, and then finally Monitor Audio Silver S10's. If you have a local MA seller, I'd highly encourage you to give them a listen. They were my favorite after a good couple three months of trial.
  • 08-18-2004, 03:18 PM
    Jimmy C
    For R&R, Heavy Metal...
    ...and a variety of other (generally) poory mastered music, I would look into old-school stuff.

    The semi-vintage speakers, IMO, works wonders with hard Rock. Brands like Boston Acoustics ("A" series), Polk ("RT"), Snell Acoustics ("K", "J"), K.E.F., A.D.S. ("L" series), the Pioneer HPM series, JBL, etc. Many of these speakers had a bit of a recessed midrange, and many employed soft-dome tweeters... they didn't have to be state-of-the-art, but they softened the presentation a bit.

    Let's face it - much of Rock and Metal was mastered to sound good in a boomin' car stereo, or through a compressed radio signal. Once bands had enough "pull" (and bands that actually care) they would put their foot down and say "I don't wan't my stuff miked like that!" Steely Dan is a good example... most of their records sound REALLY good.

    At any rate, I know it's hard to hear these things, just something to ruminate, but maybe a friend or a friend's dad has a pair. eBay usually has plenty to offer.

    I would be willing to bet you'll get the bass you want AND the smoothing you'll need with a pair of Boston A100s... O.K., O.K.... I checked... there is a pair on ePay now! ;*)
  • 08-19-2004, 01:35 AM
    Motoracer5
    Looks like the budget is expanding to $1800 or so
    listened to the Energy's today in A&B Sound(not the best place to hear them) Started with the C-5. Good bass, seemed to not have much trouble playing Audioslave at higher volume with out many nasties(more sibilance than i hear with my MiniMonitors though) But they sounded kind of thick and mushy with other music, the midrange wasent as vibrant or real sounding as I would like. For some reason they kept reminding me that im listening to speakers. The C-7's where far better to my ears, not the bigger and deeper bass of the C-5 though, but quicker, tighter and more transparent. The mids sounded more open, detailed, involving AND smoother. I really enjoyed these speakers with all the music i listened to them with. Would love them for a bedroom system, but they lacked the scale and energy im looking for. Next up the C-9.. Big soundstage, snappy deep bass, far more alive than the C-7. Exactly what im looking for!!!.... untill the volume got turned up. After a few songs the upper-midrange started to get hard on the ears with good ole Led Zeppelin II. I also thought that the mids where not as lush or big sounding as the PSB Goldi. They had better treble than what i remember from the Studio 100's though, and matched them in most every other area, cept MAYBE bass slam and depth. Well, that was my trip to A&B sound, I had all the speakers played on Parasound separates with a Denon DVD player(2900 i belive). I listened to Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, AudioSlave, ZZTop, A Perfect Circle and Down2 on all the speakers. Now i just got to track down Von Schweikert, Legacy Audio, Monitor Audio...... and probably a hundred others:S ....oh well, should be fun
  • 08-19-2004, 08:07 AM
    Bryan
    Try checking on audioenvy.com and see if anyone in your area has some Rocket RS750s they will let you audition. Could be what your looking for.
  • 08-19-2004, 01:57 PM
    toquemon
    I Agree With This
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by HokieVT
    Nothing will ever beat a pair of old school Cerwin Vegas for metal. Sigh!

    ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!. I HAD A PAIR OF CERWIN-VEGA 380-SE DRIVEN WITH A GRADIENTE(120 W) AMP.

    NEVER IN MI LIFE I HAVE HEARD IRON MAIDEN LIKE THIS AGAIN!
  • 08-19-2004, 05:04 PM
    RGA
    Expand your budget to $2500.00Cdn and you can get my speakers(AN J/Spe) from Soundhounds in VIctoria - you mentioned A&B Sound so I'd thought I'd mention em. While specifically designed for classical music - they are equally adept at heavy rock and pop/tranc/dance. Few speakers do everything well - and since I listen to everythin(exceopt rap) I needed a speaker that could sound quad like for Classical and yet also be able to hump up and slam like a big floorstander.

    I realize you have budget - so did I and I went up a grand. Largely because they retail for close to $5kCdn and opportunity knocked and more importanly they sounded better than any speaker under $15k (except for the AN E) I've heard over the last 15 years. You won't be able to go back and listen to stuff sold At A&B Sound or Audio Video Unlimited etc.

    Yes it's $700.00 more than your budget and you have to spend about $300.00 on Stands(because they're BIGF standmounts and normal stands don't work. Audio Note stands list at $500.00US but I will be trying a custom built four post Skylan stand made specifically for the AN J. Skylan has outdone more expensive standmounts in the past so I'm excited to hear what Noel has come up with.

    Think of a speaker as somehting you're going to own for 20-30years - People spend $10k on OPTIONS they don't need on cars they keep for 5 years. I know people who make impulse buys on Air Conditioning - only $1500.00 more and they think "OK" in about 4 seconds. Yet $1500.00 on speakers they will get enjoyment out of for years and they agonize over it.

    You need to listen to speakers before you buy and if you're bnot in the area forget it - but if you are - you can listen and DIRECTLY compare them to ANY speaker they have in the store - my bet is you'll find AN outclasses with ease any speaker in the store. And you may end up loving Classical music as well - because you will finally be able to hear a piano that actually sounds like a piano and not some compressed strained thin sounding powder puff of a speaker. And the people who will complain about my post have not heard em directly compared to the others. Actually another poster already mention the Snell K and J well the AN's are re-makes of those speakers but with superior cabinets and drivers materials a changed port and strategic damping.
    My dealer http://www.soundhounds.com/
  • 08-20-2004, 07:51 PM
    ranbunctious
    I agree with Hokie. Most bass players use Cerwin Vegas. I've been playing with 2 18"s for years. I'm sure the home speakers have the same quality, and will play strong without clipping.