floorstanders Vs bookshelves dilemma

[daspaceman]

Hello all,



I was 100% convinced to buy floorstanders against bookshelves for my new living room . I chose floorstanders over bookshelves because of a better bass extension. I auditioned the following speakers with a rotel power amp, playing Hotel California/Eagles live:



B&W CM9 : Sounded nothing special, too expensive for what they are (For me the mids sounded a little bit nasal)



Proac Studios 140 : Excellent bass, but it lost some detail in the mids&hi`s



Spendor A5: Sounded muddy (salesman said they were not broke in yet)



Art moderne 4 : surprisningly detailed, bass was thight but doesnt go very low.



was considering the PMC FB1i as the salesman said that they were very detailed with bass like the proacs.







On returning home I heard the same song in the new living room on my old B&W Dm602`s bookshelves (attached picture 1) and was surprised by the amount of bass these speakers produced. I`ve had these sperakers for almost 10 years, and I could believe how different they sound in a different room. As you can see in the picture both speakers were placed against a solid wall and adjacent to them there is a plaster/Gypsum board fire place.



The other option would be like in picture 2. Choosing floorstander speakers and moving them more towards the sofa. Asthetically I prefer the unit to be from wall to wall as in picture 1 (maybe making the TV unit with a marble/granite countertop and having two bookshelves on spikes). After all I might not need 2 floorstanders, and the living room would look neater!



With a budget of around 2K on hi-fi speakers I would buy something like the B&W 805S. What do you guys recommand, to go for floorstanders or bookshelves. What speakers do you recommand. I`m looking for detailed speakers.



Thanks!

[harley .guy07]

For your budget of 2 k I would say if detail and accuracy is your main concern it sounds like you need to get the highest end speaker that your budget will allow. At 2k you could probably get a more refined bookshelf speaker with a better cabinet,crossover, and drivers. In this price catigory a floorstander would probably be a lower of the line model in a brands series of speakers and with your needs I think you could get a better overall speaker with a bookshelf on stands. There are some bookshelf speakers out there that can put out a good amount of bass for their size. One that I know of is the Usher x-718. This model is not quite the speaker the be-718 from the same company but the x-718 is around 1300 dollars compared to 2800 for the be-718. I have studied the drivers that Usher puts in their speakers and they are first rate for the money and they are known for their musical accuracy and detail and are known to put out a satisfying amount of bass for there small size. They might be something for you to look into but finding a dealer for them can be difficult so I would go to their website and find one close to you. From the ratings I have read on them they are very pleasing and in comparisons to most other speakers of their size are quite capable of satisfying bass responce. I build speakers for a hobby and use drivers from several manufacturers and are planning on using Usher drivers for future projects since they are some of the best out there for the money. But this is just my opinion and I am sure others on this site will help you as well. there are some smart minds on this site and they have helped me out a lot

[daspaceman]

Thanks for your answer harley guy. Actually the budget is $3K as I was quoting the 2K in British Sterlings. What bookshelf or floorstander would you recommand for me to audition?
The Usher Be-718 is actually in my list

[02audionoob]

From ProAc I would recommend the Response D1. From the times I've heard them, they've had very good midrange and detail. For room plannning purposes, they should be about the same as floorstanders because they will perform best on stands positioned away from the wall.

[Mr Peabody]

Have you given Dynaudio a listen? The Focus 110 are excellent bookshelf or you could get a floorstander in the Excite series. I'm not sure any more on Dyn's exact pricing per model. Generally, the Dynaudio speakers are very detailed with excellent bass response. You can certainly buy a great Dyn in your budget.

One of our members here have Spendor and is very pleased with them, it may be worth going back at some point to see if they have improved after breaking in some. I don't think he'd go for anything "muddy".

Actually, if your old B&W's sound good in that room why are you going to buy new speakers? It would seem you have what you are looking for, just use them.

[daspaceman]

Mr PeaBody Dynaudio also have the contour s1.4 which should be even better than the focus range.
The spendors sounded muddy because they were just taken out of the box, and did not have any time for break-in period.
The B&W`s 602`s are gong to be used in my home studio while the new system will be used for Hi-Fi and home cinema listening in my Living Room.

[harley .guy07]

Thanks for your answer harley guy. Actually the budget is $3K as I was quoting the 2K in British Sterlings. What bookshelf or floorstander would you recommand for me to audition?
The Usher Be-718 is actually in my list

Sorry I am so used to the use of k being either for a crossover point or thousands of dollars that I did not even think about it being put in British Sterlings, But thats very cool because now you can go listen to the Usher BE-718 and There are several guys out there that swear by that speaker as the best in the sub 3000 dollar mark and even higher. Mr. Peabody made some good points with bringing in Dynaudio because While I have not owned a set I have seen their drivers and they are first rate. The only problem I think That you might have with my opinion is that finding a Usher dealer in your area might be hard to do. But you might luck out.

[harley .guy07]

I agree with Mr. Peabody in that If you like Bowers and Wilkins sound wy not also look into their higher end lines like some of the smaller 800 series to see if there is something in their lines that gives you the sound you like with the speakers you have but with more refinement and better accuracy. And since Bowers and Wilkons are British made it should be no problem finding a dealer in you area.

[ForeverAutumn]

If there is a Paradigm dealer available go check out the Paradigm Studio series. We recently purchased a pair of Paradigm Studio 60s (paid $1800 CDN). We listened to a lot of different speakers, mostly floorstanding but a couple of bookshelfs, including the B&W CM9s (I agree with your assessment of them BTW) and the Paradigms were, by far, the most detailed speaker that we heard in that price range. Lots of bass too.

If it's within your budget, the Studio 100s blew us away! But were too expensive for us at $3,000 CDN.

[LeRoy]

I happen to have an audio dealer only a few minutes drive from my home and he is dropping the Usher line in favor of the Reference 3A line. I have owned the Usher S520 bookshelf and am quite familiar with the sound of various models of Usher speakers. Having said that, I am planning on buying a pair of Reference 3A Dulcet's next year.

I have heard the Episode and Grand Veena floorstanders from Reference 3A and both are 2 of the most musical and enjoyable speakers I have had the pleasure to listen to. The Dulcets have the same "house sound" as the rest of the R3A line just only with less dynamic impact since they are obviously smaller speaker.

While I was living in Austin,TX a few years ago I was able to go to a custom audio shop, Modia, and listened to various models of Dynaudio speakers. Most of the models sounded quite good though I thought they beamed the music and there was a perceptible void in imaging between the speakers.

So, my strong suggestion is to give R3A a listen along with speakers from Sonus Faber and you might find them to be preferable?

Good luck with your selection.

LeRoy

[Jack in Wilmington]

You have gotten some very nice recommendations from the guys and girl here. I was just wondering what kind of amp or receiver you would be driving these speakers with? The Dynaudios that Mr. P suggested are excellent speakers but they can put the hurtin on some underpowered amps and receivers. My own Usher X-719's benefited greatly from a seperate amp. It made the mids open up and tightened up the bass. Just something you might want to think about.

[Mr Peabody]

LeRoy, do you remember what electronics they were driving the Dyn's with? I've never noticed what you described from any of the Dyn's, not even from using my monoblocks. I've have yet to hear a speaker that can reproduce any type of music and do it superbly as Dynaudio. It seems to be jack of all genres. One of the many things I love about them.

Good point about what we are mating these speakers to.

[blackraven]

I would look at PSB synchrony's. Warmer sounding than the B&W's, excellent bass and treble with good resolution. Dynaudio would be on my list as well.

[LeRoy]

Mr. Peabody,

I heard the Focus 110, Focus 140, and a couple of very large floorstander's from Dynaudio and they were all demonstrated with Rotel amplification, and Rotel CDP. With the same Rotel gear and switching to the B&W Nautilus line of speakers the B&W had much better soundstaging than the Dyn's.

While I prefer the sound of Dyn's over B&W any time of the day/night...i simply found what I perceived as beaming to be unacceptable especially at their price points....maybe I need to give them another listen sometime soon..

The R3A are very, very efficient and are easily driven by a quality 30 watt amp. I have heard the R3A with Belles amplification and the paring is just so natural and musical that just last week I bought a Belles Soloist Amplifier 5 and Belles Soloist Pre-Amp for $1100.00 total for both, demo gear, full 5 year warranty.

[daspaceman]

You have gotten some very nice recommendations from the guys and girl here. I was just wondering what kind of amp or receiver you would be driving these speakers with? The Dynaudios that Mr. P suggested are excellent speakers but they can put the hurtin on some underpowered amps and receivers. My own Usher X-719's benefited greatly from a seperate amp. It made the mids open up and tightened up the bass. Just something you might want to think about.

Thanks all for your ansewers.. now I have to do a lot of research and auditioning
As for Amps I`m going to buy something like the rotel RB1582 to power the two front speakers, a rotel RMB1575 to power centre, surrounds and multi room 2.0.

As for preamp, something like the rotel RSP1570.

I`m more int hi-fi the homecinema, so music listening is a priority

[JoeE SP9]

daspaceman:
This may be a little late. How about some good bookshelf's on stands, placed like the floor-standers in your second picture? Spend 2K for them and another 1K for a good sub-woofer.

[Jack in Wilmington]

When I was doing my final speaker auditions last spring, I had the Dyn Focus 140 on my short list. The store that I went to had the whole Focus series running on Rotel equipment. I was sceptical at first, but was very pleasently surprized by what I heard.

The first place I heard the 140's at had them powered by Naim gear. I felt that the Dyn/Rotel combo was a bit warmer and more what I was looking for in a speaker. I didn't hear the "beaming" that Leroy was referring to. But that could be from a number of reasons.

[daspaceman]

daspaceman:
This may be a little late. How about some good bookshelf's on stands, placed like the floor-standers in your second picture? Spend 2K for them and another 1K for a good sub-woofer.

No JoeE sp9, it`s not too late as i`m still on the hunt! I agree with you, and from the response I got ... the best thing to do is place them as in picture two.. and add a sub.I can always "hide" the speakers in the corners (adjacent to the fireplacewhen not in use in the living room, to keep things tidy.


Jack in Wilmington: I would like a little bit of warmth in my system, so the Dynaudio/Rotel might work. Initially I was thinking of an NAD amp, but all the dealers in the Uk were telling me not to buy NAD as a high percentage of them are faulty, and that is not worth the hassle, as there are good alternatives for warm amps. I`m also considering cinenova3 for the fronts and centre, and an average 4channel amp for the rears, and the 2.0 multi room.

[Mr Peabody]

When looking for a sub I'd recommend taking a look at SVS, I've been extremely impressed with mine. www.svsound.com

[RGA]

If you're able to place the speakers near walls or in corners I would consider the British Audio Note E, J, or K. I would also consider the larger dual concentric designs from Tannoy (the prestige line).

Don't get two caught up in the bass and standmount versus floorstanders the Audio Note speakers J and E have prodigious bass response of a floorstander but with all of the advantages of a two way. The J starts at $5k but many dealers have older models they may be willing to do a deal on. If you're in England they will come to your home and let you home trial them for free. Other dealers will too most likely. There are ten different AN E and many different K and J models - all look the same but are essentially hot rodded as you go up the price range with better drivers, crossovers, wiring etc.

Both AN and Tannoy are highly efficient designs which opens the door to far more amplifier choices in the future than B&W or Dynaudio. So should you want to go with what I believe are the best sounding amplifiers - Single Ended class A amplifiers (tube or not) both of these companies will be able to take advantage of them.

Granted I am biased as an owner of Audio Note speakers so take it with a grain of salt.

My review of the J is here http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=124

Some of my fellow reviewers also own Audio Note speakers and I would definitely try to audition them.
http://www.stereophile.com/standloud...an/index5.html
http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=360 (this reviewer compares it to the Revel F30)
http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=351
http://www.stereotimes.com/speak071701.shtml
http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=447
http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=352

Personally I would hang onto the B&W 602 and save - the 602 is a fine speaker and if I made the jump it would be to AN or Tannoy Prestige. A lot of speakers in that 2k-3k price class make rather minor improvements and often a few downgrades. You'll get more bass in a floorstander but more box colouration, many of the so called audiophile approved standmounts offer a nice treble but poor bass depth and dynamics. I like the older 602 and CDM 2SE over the newer 700 Series or CM line.

[JoeE SP9]

I agree with RGA. Keep your current B&W's. Get some good stands for them. Let's say the stands cost 1/4K. Place them per diagram number 2. Get a good sub for 1K. Spend the other 3/4K on new source material to enjoy your system.

On second thought, use some of that 3/4K to take your SO out for an evening. Spend what's left on new source material.