floor vs. bookshelf

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  • 11-26-2004, 08:26 AM
    fotozcd
    floor vs. bookshelf
    I'm buying a new stereo (music only). I listen to a wide range of music---from Radiohead to Bossanova---and I'm considering an Audiosource Amp 3 to power two rooms each approx. 24'X14'. Can anyone suggest some speakers? I'm debating floor or bookshelf. I assume floors have the better sound, but they're so bloody big (see Athena AS F2s!). That said, if the sound is that much better I may go for it.

    Thoughts anyone?
  • 11-26-2004, 12:09 PM
    PAT.P
    floor vs bookshelf
    For room that size I would go with towers! At least for front in back bookshelf would do.Pat.P
  • 11-26-2004, 12:29 PM
    Lord_Magnepan
    One of the few "small" speakers i have heard which can fill up a medium sized room quite nicely was a Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor.

    Cheers
  • 11-26-2004, 02:57 PM
    Lensman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fotozcd
    I'm buying a new stereo (music only). I listen to a wide range of music---from Radiohead to Bossanova---and I'm considering an Audiosource Amp 3 to power two rooms each approx. 24'X14'. Can anyone suggest some speakers? I'm debating floor or bookshelf. I assume floors have the better sound, but they're so bloody big (see Athena AS F2s!). That said, if the sound is that much better I may go for it.

    Thoughts anyone?

    Floor standers have more bass. This does not mean they sound better. In fact in the under $2,000 price range, they often sound worse than bookshelves. So it's usually better to pair bookshelves with a sub. To recomend speakers we'd need to know what your budget is.

    An important consideration for you will be the speaker's efficiency. Given your room size and desired amp, I'd recommend speakers with a reasonably high sensitivity (88 db or better). I personally use bookshelves with a sub in a room of almost identical size (14x24.5) to good effect.
  • 11-26-2004, 05:21 PM
    Geoffcin
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lord_Magnepan
    One of the few "small" speakers i have heard which can fill up a medium sized room quite nicely was a Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor.

    Cheers

    Fill a room, and empty your bank account too!
  • 11-27-2004, 01:07 AM
    chimera128
    The best thing is for you to get out there and audition speakers, especially if you aren't really familiar with the brands out there. Since you mentioned the Athenas I assume that you went to Best Buy. I would stay away from the big store chains. Look in your phone book and visit some of the high end audio stores in your area. I tend to favor the sound of bipolar/dipolar speakers over direct radiators (even for music) but there are a lot of people out there who prefer the directs for 2 channel music. BTW.. what kind of budget are you looking at?
  • 11-28-2004, 10:28 AM
    Lord_Magnepan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Fill a room, and empty your bank account too!


    Kinda normal for this hobby :p

    I would rather save up and buy a good speaker then just go out and buy a cheap speaker just in order to get it faster.

    Maybe its just me ;)
  • 11-28-2004, 11:36 AM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lord_Magnepan
    Kinda normal for this hobby :p

    I would rather save up and buy a good speaker then just go out and buy a cheap speaker just in order to get it faster.

    Maybe its just me ;)

    No its not just you, I would prefer to have a great two channel system, than a mediocre multichannel system. I believe everyone should save their money and buy good stuff, rather than instant gratification, some cheap easy to get stuff, and lousy sound.
  • 11-28-2004, 03:39 PM
    fotozcd
    floor vs. bookshelf, continued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    No its not just you, I would prefer to have a great two channel system, than a mediocre multichannel system. I believe everyone should save their money and buy good stuff, rather than instant gratification, some cheap easy to get stuff, and lousy sound.

    Thanks for all the responses! The room is about 24 X 14 and I can go as high as $1500. I'd love to go higher but...

    What do you think of Klipsch?

    And yes, I fully intend test drive, if i can find the venue with the speakers.

    Thanks everyone!
  • 11-28-2004, 05:00 PM
    chimera128
    I would recommend listening to the BP7004 (I like bipolar sound as opposed to direct radiating but you may not.. won't know unless you listen). The BP7004 is a slim design (but deep) consisting of a 300 watt 10 in sub built into the cabinet, 5 in mid and a 1 in tweeter. You have to have an outlet by each speaker as they need to be plugged in. I have the 7000SCs and they perform well on a wide range of music. You should also be able to get them for under the $1500 you have to spend (MSRP is $1600 but I would try to get them for around $1300 or so). TAS did a review of this speaker which you can read here:

    http://www.definitivetech.com/reviews/BP7004ASrev.pdf

    Bipolars/dipolars need room and a bit more time to find the correct placement (you can't just set them on the floor and expect them to sound as good as they can).
  • 11-28-2004, 05:32 PM
    Lord_Magnepan
    I would add a Magnepan MG 12 at the top of a very short list. Another interesting product would be the small Sonus Faber speaker (forgot the name, but there is only one at 1500$). Also try a Tannoy RS3 and a Castle Harlech 2.

    So top to bottom:

    Magnepan MG 12 <- my choice...since music doesnt live in boxes (my opinion)
    Tannoy RS3 <- very very nice, pulls a dissapearing act very nicely
    Castle Harlech 2 <- Very much like REGA very true and no funky stuff
    Lua Junior <- picky and not everyones taste

    Have fun ;-)

    PS> I wouldnt buy any commercial crap......
  • 11-28-2004, 07:18 PM
    RGA
    "since music doesnt live in boxes "

    Hmm a Piano does, The cello does, the violin does, all woodwinds, guitars, the human voice comes from the voice box :-)

    Just kidding with you. There is a bloke on AA that has traded his 1.6 in for the AN J so I am awaiting his view. Another fellow traded his Quad panel in for the E and has been happy since. (He's the one who called em the best of stats and the best of horns rolled up into one speaker).

    Don't blame box speakers - maybe just blame the people who don't know how to do it right. Which I grant you based off of most of them I have heard it's no wonder people go to panels/planars.

    A dealer in Vancouver has the Maggie 3.6 in stock so over Christmas I will take a listen - really they are not that expensive of a high end speaker - I would personally take a chance on the Magnepan MMG if I were in that price range as most of the boxed speakers sound mostly uninspiring.
  • 11-28-2004, 11:31 PM
    Lord_Magnepan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    "since music doesnt live in boxes "


    Don't blame box speakers - maybe just blame the people who don't know how to do it right. Which I grant you based off of most of them I have heard it's no wonder people go to panels/planars.

    A dealer in Vancouver has the Maggie 3.6 in stock so over Christmas I will take a listen - really they are not that expensive of a high end speaker - I would personally take a chance on the Magnepan MMG if I were in that price range as most of the boxed speakers sound mostly uninspiring.


    I dont blame box speakers, after all i have heard the crown juwels of box audio in the world. If there would be a single box in this world capable of realisticly (size, shape, dimension, tonal color) reproduce music at anywere near a dream price then i would save and hope to buy it someday.......but there isnt one to my ears. ;)

    Music itself lives in wood cases, but the shear power, size, dimension, life etc... cannot be reproduced by different drivers of drifferent types with different materials in such a way a Planar does. And afterall, there are always a very few individuals who go back to a box speaker (very very few) and there are those perfectioniests which dont buy a box in the first place :p

    And if a person chooses to select a speaker solely based on reviews, then he/she will find that Magnepan has the highest user satisfaction rate, and the highest most acclaimed reviews out there.

    Now please dont forgot, that we are comparing them to 40 or 50000$ speakers, the MG 20.1 stands and shares 1 place with a very few of the best loudspeakers in the world, which cost over 100000$....this is not comparable to a box like a B&W, Caslte, Infinity etc...

    Its made for music lovers, and perfectionists.

    "Taken on its own, however, the Magnepan Magneplanar MG3.6/R is a sensational speaker and, at $3750/pair, very reasonably priced. In some respects it's the best speaker I've heard period. Even in the areas where it's perhaps not the very best, it's awfully close -even when the very best is several times more expensive. Some speakers I admire, some I like ... the Magnepan MG3.6/R, I think I'll keep. Very highly recommended!"

    Cheers


    PS: Personally i have not heard a single speaker (box, hybrid) that can reproduce music in such a beatifull way as the Maggie does. I have heard the 1.6 and the 3.6 against 120000$ Avalons and I would always buy the Maggie.

    In my opinion, someone has to hear a perfectly setup Planar Speaker (Magnetostat, Electrostat) to fully understand it and to apreciate it. And am i biased ? Hell yes i am ;-)
  • 11-29-2004, 04:23 AM
    chimera128
    "In my opinion, someone has to hear a perfectly setup Planar Speaker (Magnetostat, Electrostat) to fully understand it and to apreciate it. And am i biased ? Hell yes i am ;-)"

    I think we all could be considered biased to the speakers we buy, after all we bought them because we thought they were the best in their respective price classes for the uses that we put them to. I do know what you mean though, a good stat, planar, or bipolar setup makes direct radiators sound bland and lifeless in comparison. They take a little more time to setup but it is worth it. It is funny though how most (if not all) reviews of speakers say that a $500 set of speakers sounds like a $1000 set of speakers, a $2500 set sounds like $10000, $10000 sounds like $50000 etc. They are obviously trying to make you feel like you are getting a good deal. Unfortunately buying speakers isn't necessarily about which speakers are the "best deal for the $$$" because that is totally subjective. Another funny thing about speakers is the budget. I don't know about you guys but I can never stick to a budget for speakers. Before I bought my current system I only planned on budgetting around $4k for everything but so far have ended up spending around $10k (and plan to buy a pre/pro + amps next year and more speakers for a bedroom system to work with the receiver I will be replacing =X). It's a fun hobby but unfortunately it's a constantly evolving hobby. New dvd players, formats, amps, speakers, etc. I haven't even begun to look at televisions =/ (still using a 32 in trinitron). In the end I know I will probably end up spending over $20k for everything, mostly because when I went out to look for components I discovered that I would be happier buying better ones over time than getting the $4k system. If only they didn't have the speakers I bought on display to listen to =).
  • 11-29-2004, 12:17 PM
    Lord_Magnepan
    Yes i do agree with you. I dont limit my budget as i dont think in the budget terms. I know what i want and i save up towards it and then buy it. Of course money is a big subject and i must have spend at least 12000$ on the 2 channel alone. The hobby is great, but the biggest thing i always try is to make people open minded. There are many amazing planars, and boxes out there but sometimes i feel that people do not care about "real music" anymore and seem to be lost in a world of stats and descriptions.

    Have fun listening
  • 11-29-2004, 09:16 PM
    RGA
    Lord Magnepan

    I am happy to see someone as passionate as me about their choice of audio products - and I have a pretty good idea about why you dislike boxed speakers - but IMO I have the king of box speakers. I got a small taste of the SMG which had too many problems for me - but it's old and supposedly nowhere as good as the new ones - and there was already an openess to the sound that I liked better than most of the spekaers I've heard - so the 3.6 and 20 I'd like to hear one day.

    The key is to be passionate about it - it boggles my mind that people need to hear speakers at home versus a bunch of others - it should hit you like a ton of bricks that one is "right" and the other isn't. Sounds like Maggie is such a speaker.

    Yeah the specs measurements are overplayed - plenty of utter crap that appears to measure veyr well. :rolleyes: So umm what is it that they left out of the measurements (the one for what sounds good?
  • 11-30-2004, 08:20 AM
    Lord_Magnepan
    I am happy to see someone as passionate as me about their choice of audio products - and I have a pretty good idea about why you dislike boxed speakers - but IMO I have the king of box speakers.

    Heheh well thats totally depending on taste. :p My favoriete box speaker is the Avalon Eidolon Diamond

    The key is to be passionate about it - it boggles my mind that people need to hear speakers at home versus a bunch of others - it should hit you like a ton of bricks that one is "right" and the other isn't. Sounds like Maggie is such a speaker.

    It sure is, but one needs the right room and the right equipment and the passion and will to set it up correctly. Give it a try ;)

    Yeah the specs measurements are overplayed - plenty of utter crap that appears to measure veyr well. :rolleyes: So umm what is it that they left out of the measurements (the one for what sounds good?

    I think the most overrated speakers out there are B&W. But lets keep that a secret or else i have to have discussions with 1000s of people for the next years ;)

    The thing is, i heard many speakers so i can make some judgment. Most people i talk to always praise their speakers but never even heard others. The biggest problem i have is that people tend to say my speaker is the best and as soon as someone joins in with a sysytem costing several thousands alone which ranks in the pure high end heaven they say its overkill and badmouth it.