• 09-15-2005, 09:43 AM
    ericl
    Florian vs. RGA
    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....lan&1131501483

    Based on Flo's raves they're tempting, but totally impractical for me. I'd have to spend almost as much on an amp, plus they're huge!
  • 09-15-2005, 11:12 AM
    Geoffcin
    Go on, do it!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ericl
    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....lan&1131501483

    Based on Flo's raves they're tempting, but totally impractical for me. I'd have to spend almost as much on an amp, plus they're huge!

    My old PS Audio 200c could be found pretty cheap on Audiogon, and could drive these no problem.
  • 09-15-2005, 11:26 AM
    noddin0ff
    I want to know how someone who can afford the gear, AND hook it all up, etc. ...can't seem to figure out a way to hold the camera steady. For $1700, I'd at least take a second picture.
  • 09-15-2005, 02:39 PM
    SlumpBuster
    Are the speakers behind the screen doors?
  • 09-15-2005, 02:50 PM
    Florian
    These are easy to drive and amongst the best speakers there are period. No point in a subwoofer and there are no integration issues. Now if you build in new Graz ribbons like in my DIVAS, youd be rocking up and down the street and waking your neighbors. Someone lucky is going to be very happy with them. Keep an eye out for the Duetta 2 Signature!

    -Flo

    PS: 4ohm impedance, around 86db efficency, down to 20Hz, fullrange, dipole with perfect integration and over 100db of SPL in a 40m2 room. If someone with with good ears and a nice place reads this then try them out and forget about all the stuff you read nowadays :p
  • 09-15-2005, 05:05 PM
    RGA
    I would make sure you listen to them before you buy them -- I was not impressed.
  • 09-15-2005, 05:33 PM
    Florian
    What a suprise. The Duetta doesnt go below 30Hz (your original post) is the same your best friend Peter Q said. Unfortunatly you have no clue and neither has Peter. If the person is interested go and listen to them, they all play below 30Hz and if you read the reviews you will see that they have output down to 20Hz same as all the larger Apogee models. This is why they quote "below 25Hz" or "below ?_?Hz". A lot depends on the distance to the wall and amplifiers. Run a 25Hz bass signal on the panel and feel the bass. Now to RGA, this post was as pointless as all the other posts about panel speakers. I wont get into it, since it your loss and afterall you dont know what your missing.

    -Flo
  • 09-15-2005, 05:34 PM
    Florian
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    The Duetta Signature I can tell you right now will NEVER get under 30hz not even remotely close. I have heard these in peron and their bass weight isn;t even up to a number of standmount speakers. Apogee themselves don;t even rate their largest speakers to anything deeper than 28hz. And the Duetta was not one of their big bass models -- expect no better than 40hz for that model with any kind of real driving prowess. Also expect a rather beamy sound a brightish upper midbass lower treble sound with plenty of sizzle. And they were also noted to suffer numerous failures so be prepared to start spending big money constantly repairing them. Overpriced loudspeakers with poor construction quality tend to go out of business -- and gee they did.

    This is the reason why i simpy can't stand you. You have no knowledge of loudspeakers at all. Absolutly no real experience and tend to bash things you do not understand. I guess schoolboys tend to do that. One of the reasons why i dont read these forums much anymore. You have not read one review, eventough you are a review fanatic. That Apogee's still exist over 20 years and still function, is of no concern to you. The best thing for you is to live in that high quality construction of the Audio Note speakers and shut yourself off from the real world completely. I am suprised how someone with such inferior intelligence can reach such a status with some members. Simply amazing.

    -Flo
  • 09-15-2005, 06:02 PM
    Florian
    Just a slight quote from Martin Colloms and other reviewers about the Apogee Duetta.I can asure people that RGA's response was simply to make them look bad. I seriously doubt his knowledge and experience. He has shown in the past to quote directly from the AudioNoteUK (not the original AudioNote maker) specs which are false and display the total lack of first hand experience. Take it from me, someone who owns these speakers and knows how they work. I would love to explain this to RGA, but unfortunatly he can only understand things from Peter. Quite sad, really. I hope that someday you will learn, RGA. Good luck.

    Most of all Apogee's play well below 30Hz (all actually) and the larger ones have output at 20Hz but roll of at 25Hz. The large Apogee Studio Grand and Grand play below 22Hz and below 18Hz. For more information about these systems just email me and i will tell you the facts and not the lies and false information that RGA regularly posts on these forums.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Martin Collums
    I can assure you that it is possible to obtain a room curve using this method which runs within ± 3dB 25Hz to 200Hz, ±2dB 200Hz to 8kHz, with a gentle roll-off thereafter. (This latter effect is due to the finite directivity of almost all commercial tweeters at higher frequencies.) Blind listening tests have shown a consistently good correlation between perceived response and the room measurement.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hifi Choice 1989
    The bass was well extended to 25Hz, and can be a mite too powerful in some rooms.

  • 09-15-2005, 06:19 PM
    Florian
    On one of my last emails with Peter Q (not the original AudioNote maker) he statet that the Scintilla did not play below 40Hz. This is quite amusing and what a suprise, is the same thing our friend RGA posts. Here is a quote from John Atkinson from HiFI News.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by John Atkinson
    The bass of the Scintillas just goes down and down. The diagram shows the individual near-field response of the two driver sections in my room. That is real 20Hz extension!

    Interestingly enough RGA claims that panel speakers have no real bass output at all. This is a simple lie to make them look bad. I can post literally dozens of reviews, technical papers on these systems to fill up multiple pages but this would be a waste of time, since the knowledgeable folk already know that this is all typical for RGA. I really recomend that you go out and actually play with these systems, play with the placment, phono cartidges, amplifiers and cables. A whole new world will open and flow into your ears.

    And as RGA posts "Ignore the Press", i tend to disagree and state the following. "Ignore people with a lack of knowledge".

    -Florian
  • 09-15-2005, 06:54 PM
    Florian
    Also i apeal to the general intelligence to ALL members of this forum. The Apogee Duetta has not been made for at least 14years now. The typical response from some members is that "oh i heard these not too long ago", or that "i heard these at a dealer". The funny thing is that Apogee's are quite rare, and at their times were only avaliable for people with thick wallets. The odds that a member who just now reads this post says that he has heard them is more than suspicious. Dealers dont sell them for 14 years, which means that RGA has either friends who own all the speakers he says he knows and heard or he is simply lying. I belive its the later. By the amount of his posts and the amount of speakers he supposely knows (pretty much the same as Peter) and taken into consideration that he is studying in school leads me to belive that he is lying and infact has no knowledge over these systems at all. We in the ApogeeClub know the seriel numbers of these speakers, we know aprox. how many are made, what series they are and what they changed. Many know the designers personally and have a specialist who makes replacment ribbons to the exact same or better specs.

    Please think about those words i just wrote and ask yourself. Does he really know all this, does he have the time? What are the odds that a speaker, as rare as this can easily be found for audition? How come he says that they only play a certain frequency repsonse, why literally dozens of reviewers and specialist come to opposite conclusions? Is he is just full of it and envious that he cannot afford such systems?

    -Flo
  • 09-15-2005, 07:18 PM
    Florian
    I would please like to know how your supposely experiences can be so different from everyone elses? Fact is that what you are saying is wrong, this is not in question anymore. What is in question is why you spread such false lies, there is nothing to gain from it exept personal pleasure maybe? I find it offensive and wrong that you are trying to influence other members by bashing a product you totally lack knowledge off. When i critize the AudioNoteUK (not original AudioNote) speaker model J i speak of sound quality. You speak of facts such as freuquency response, efficency etc. and state false claims. This is very different from me and totally disshonest. If you add something to this post, please explain why you are stating false facts on purpose and 2 minutes later erase your repsonse and edit it?

    -Flo
  • 09-16-2005, 08:06 AM
    topspeed
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian
    If you add something to this post, please explain why you are stating false facts on purpose and 2 minutes later erase your repsonse and edit it?

    -Flo

    Because RGA is more mature than you are. He's a fanboy. No big deal. You're so egomaniacal that you'll defend to the death a company that has been out of business for how long now? Their speakers still "function after 20 years" you say? What kind of obtuse logic is that? I've got Missions from the early '80s and my dad's AR's from the 70's are still making fine music. That proves nothing.

    If you want proof of concept, all you have to do is see if the product is still being made. The market doesn't lie. If the product is good, regardless of price, it will be bought. I'm not saying the Apogee's aren't everything you claim they are, and to be honest I don't care. What I am saying is that you can talk yourself blue in the face defending Apogee and you still won't be able to refute that the vast majority of people disagree with you. That is a fact. How do I know?

    Is Apogee still in business?
  • 09-16-2005, 08:25 AM
    Florian
    The sad matter of fact is that you have not read nor understood the posts that i have written. If you would have read them, then you would know that my problem is that he "lies" and posts "false" information about a speaker manufacturer. Let me repeat that, just for you. He is lying and putting down a speaker with false facts! The fact that i said that they still work after 20 years was only as a reply to RGA's false statment about the "longterm functionality" of a Apogee speaker.

    Please only reply to this post when you can prove that RGA's post were correct and that all the specialist and reviews are wrong. I would aslo enjoy it very much to have a intelligent conversation with you, unfortunalty you did not read my posts and lack the knowledge of why Apogee went out of business.

    -Flo
  • 09-16-2005, 08:35 AM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian
    This is the reason why i simpy can't stand you. You have no knowledge of loudspeakers at all. Absolutly no real experience and tend to bash things you do not understand. I guess schoolboys tend to do that. One of the reasons why i dont read these forums much anymore. You have not read one review, eventough you are a review fanatic. That Apogee's still exist over 20 years and still function, is of no concern to you. The best thing for you is to live in that high quality construction of the Audio Note speakers and shut yourself off from the real world completely. I am suprised how someone with such inferior intelligence can reach such a status with some members. Simply amazing.

    -Flo

    And this is why you catch so much flak from some of the other veteran members on this forum, because of your persistent heavy-handed snobbery and intolerance of any opinions that don't square with yours. You bash others for being fanboys, yet here you are attacking anyone that dares to say that the Apogees aren't the best speakers ever made.

    You seem to equate your personal opinions with universal fact, and that is a fallacy that's more symptomatic of a "schoolboy" mentality or "inferior intelligence" than anything that RGA posts on this board. I've had more than my fair share of heated exchanges with him over the years. But, he will acknowledge that his opinions reflect his personal preferences and admit when his facts are in error, while you seem to lack that capacity -- instead prefering to condescend, attempt to discredit, or otherwise slander anyone who doesn't share your worldview. Agree with him or not, he does plenty of listening and his opinions of the Duettas are comparable to what I observed in my listenings several years ago.

    How many times are other people on this going to have to call you out before you figure out that a knowledgeable person can very well have an entirely different perspective from you?
  • 09-16-2005, 08:42 AM
    noddin0ff
    Ah, those halcyon days of respectful disagreement...too bad money can’t buy civility.
  • 09-16-2005, 08:44 AM
    Florian
    The matter of fact is that you guys all seem to have problems with these "panel" speakers. All, and i mean ALL profesional reviews that listen to these extensively and test them come to 100% different conclusions than you. Whenever i write about my personal experience with one box speaker i get bashed to pieces by the GREAT reviews, but as soon as i post "COLD HARD FACTS" i get attacked and i am getting called a snob. This is complete crap and in a matter of fact i am the only one with Bernd and Itch who actually encourage beginner systems and write nice things here. I write about equipment i extensively tested or owned. If i write about my personal "hearing experience" noone can touch that, same as if RGA writes about it. But he and others lie about the facts and lack the knowledge.

    My problem lies with people that lie and claim false specs, and ,many on here do. This site is so geard towards box speakers and against people with money in their systems is sickening.

    -Flo
  • 09-16-2005, 08:56 AM
    Florian
    By the way i bet all of you do not even know why i write this.

    This is the ORIGNAL post from RGA that i call a lie. He states false frequency response measurments and more.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    Originally Posted by RGA
    The Duetta Signature I can tell you right now will NEVER get under 30hz not even remotely close. I have heard these in peron and their bass weight isn;t even up to a number of standmount speakers. Apogee themselves don;t even rate their largest speakers to anything deeper than 28hz. And the Duetta was not one of their big bass models -- expect no better than 40hz for that model with any kind of real driving prowess. Also expect a rather beamy sound a brightish upper midbass lower treble sound with plenty of sizzle. And they were also noted to suffer numerous failures so be prepared to start spending big money constantly repairing them. Overpriced loudspeakers with poor construction quality tend to go out of business -- and gee they did.

  • 09-16-2005, 09:09 AM
    GMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ericl
    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....lan&1131501483

    Based on Flo's raves they're tempting, but totally impractical for me. I'd have to spend almost as much on an amp, plus they're huge!

    You didn't expect all of this did ya?
  • 09-16-2005, 09:11 AM
    SlumpBuster
    Somebody call homeland security, because this thread has been hijacked! :D

    FYI, Flo its more about your tone than your speakers or your money. It's not necessarily a snob issue. Many of us have plenty of money too, but also mortgages, kids, jobs, and cars, and saving for retirement. I really like my stereo, but I'm just never going to spend more than one mortgage payment on a pair. What you accuse RGA of simply isn't that bad. Here's an example: "My 8" velodyne plays to 20hz. It is the best subwoofer ever. None of you know subwoofers. This one is different and special because it is mine." See I made a false statement, yet the world still turns.

    But to your credit you have been encouraging beginning systems in the photo gallery.
  • 09-16-2005, 09:19 AM
    Florian
    Why should i take the blame? RGA postes a false statment and i have to write tons of post that obviously prove him wrong and now i should take the blame for it.

    -Flo
  • 09-16-2005, 09:22 AM
    ericl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GMichael
    You didn't expect all of this did ya?

    hahahaha

    no

    and i'd like it to stop! mr florian...
  • 09-16-2005, 09:36 AM
    Geoffcin
    Someone call?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    Somebody call homeland security, because this thread has been hijacked! :D



    RGA; you were trolling for Florian plain and simple. Stop it. If people want to talk about Apogee speakers, (and in case you weren't looking it was el grande enchilada who opened the thread) then let them talk.

    Florian; Don't you see that RGA was playing you like a violin? You did EXACTLY what he thought you would do. Time to take a step back and cool off. Perhaps you should also read some of the comments from the regulars too, your people skills need some work.
  • 09-16-2005, 09:50 AM
    Florian
    My people skills are generally very good exept 2 people so far. If he stops ever mentioning planars then i will stop about his box. I recommend a word stop about planars for RGA and a AudioNote stop for me.

    -Flo
  • 09-16-2005, 09:58 AM
    topspeed
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian
    The sad matter of fact is that you have not read nor understood the posts that i have written.

    Guilty as charged. I only glanced over it. Your rhetoric bores the hell out of me after a few sentences.
    Quote:

    He is lying and putting down a speaker with false facts! The fact that i said that they still work after 20 years was only as a reply to RGA's false statment about the "longterm functionality" of a Apogee speaker.
    Fact: the ad states the ribbons have been replaced. Fact: YOU replaced your ribbons. Now why would anyone question their durability?
    Quote:

    Please only reply to this post when you can prove that RGA's post were correct and that all the specialist and reviews are wrong. I would aslo enjoy it very much to have a intelligent conversation with you, unfortunalty you did not read my posts and lack the knowledge of why Apogee went out of business.
    When you grow up, you'll realize the simple truth about business; you're either in it or not. If you are, you're doing it right. If you're not, find another profession. Anything else is an excuse.