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  1. #1
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    Dynaudio Audience 62 vs. Triangle Altea vs. Focal 816V vs Monitor Audio RS8

    Since I don't have a chance to listen to these 4 speakers with the same amp or in the same room, it would be great if somebody could compare them.

    I mostly listen to acoustic jazz, soul and funk!

    Thanks!
    Last edited by groovastic; 03-07-2008 at 04:46 AM.

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    Dynaudios will be your best bet as long as you can drive them. They are 4ohm and would like a beefy amp. I have both the 82s and 42s. I drive the 82s with an Stratos amp and are using the 42s as rears with an HK HT receiver. When I hooked up the 42s to the Stratos, they really came alive and coupled with a sub is all you really need for a good size room. I was completely surprised.

    Dyns have a silk dome tweeter that is less fatiguing after long listening compared to any metal dome tweeter.

    Good luck.

  3. #3
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    The problem is of course we all can hear the same thing and take something completely different away from the experience. I have at least some experience with most of these speakers but of course I didn't buy any of them. Doesn't mean they're bad, they're all competent at the very least, just not what I'm looking for.

    First off, I disagree with Hyfi on the metal dome tweeter issue. There are metal tweeters with outstanding implementation and silk dome tweeters administered poorly. It all comes down to design and the skill of the builder imo. Take that Beryllium tweeter that Focal uses in the upper end of their products. I can't find too much wrong with what they've done with that.

    Dynaudio 62's would make a fine choice if you can afford to drive them. Personally I found them to be too polite and laid back. My preference is for livelier and more dynamic speakers and these aren't them. I can see why others like them though. I really wanted Dynaudio speakers at one point but I would have to go so far up the line that for me, there were better options.

    Triangle-Gorgeous looking across the board but universally lacking bass. Pretty sure the low frequency cut off is something like 50 Hz for the Altea. It's a company philosophy and my listening made me wonder if the 50 Hz was pushing the truth. Pretty much no bass. No problem with a really decent sub but to get the kind of quality sub you'd need to fill these out there were better options for me pricewise, my sub isn't all that. Gorgeous mids and highs though. Maybe for your music these would not be a problem.

    Focal 816 Again for me, beautiful looking but really lacking in bass response. The French, what's their issue with bass? Not as laid back as the Dynaudio, not as fluid on the mids as Triangle.

    Never heard a Monitor Audio floor standing product so I wouldn't have an opinion on that.

    In a line of similar speakers that you are listening to I vastly preferred the Von Schweikert VR2's. Bass, down to 25 hz, and it's real bass. I liked the looks almost as much as Triangle and Focal. But these were more forward, lively, and dynamic all the way around. Now here's the weird thing. All the press, all the awards and they aren't even made anymore. Unbelievable as far as I'm concerned but goes to show what I know - not much.

    BTW, I didn't buy these either, but I'm still thinking of picking up a used set to use a rears for my Von Schweikert HT system.

    jc
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  4. #4
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    The problem is of course we all can hear the same thing and take something completely different away from the experience. I have at least some experience with most of these speakers but of course I didn't buy any of them. Doesn't mean they're bad, they're all competent at the very least, just not what I'm looking for.

    First off, I disagree with Hyfi on the metal dome tweeter issue. There are metal tweeters with outstanding implementation and silk dome tweeters administered poorly. It all comes down to design and the skill of the builder imo. Take that Beryllium tweeter that Focal uses in the upper end of their products. I can't find too much wrong with what they've done with that.

    Dynaudio 62's would make a fine choice if you can afford to drive them. Personally I found them to be too polite and laid back. My preference is for livelier and more dynamic speakers and these aren't them. I can see why others like them though. I really wanted Dynaudio speakers at one point but I would have to go so far up the line that for me, there were better options.

    Triangle-Gorgeous looking across the board but universally lacking bass. Pretty sure the low frequency cut off is something like 50 Hz for the Altea. It's a company philosophy and my listening made me wonder if the 50 Hz was pushing the truth. Pretty much no bass. No problem with a really decent sub but to get the kind of quality sub you'd need to fill these out there were better options for me pricewise, my sub isn't all that. Gorgeous mids and highs though. Maybe for your music these would not be a problem.

    Focal 816 Again for me, beautiful looking but really lacking in bass response. The French, what's their issue with bass? Not as laid back as the Dynaudio, not as fluid on the mids as Triangle.

    Never heard a Monitor Audio floor standing product so I wouldn't have an opinion on that.

    In a line of similar speakers that you are listening to I vastly preferred the Von Schweikert VR2's. Bass, down to 25 hz, and it's real bass. I liked the looks almost as much as Triangle and Focal. But these were more forward, lively, and dynamic all the way around. Now here's the weird thing. All the press, all the awards and they aren't even made anymore. Unbelievable as far as I'm concerned but goes to show what I know - not much.

    BTW, I didn't buy these either, but I'm still thinking of picking up a used set to use a rears for my Von Schweikert HT system.

    jc
    Good post....

    I wondered if I was the only one who found Dynaudio to be too polite and laid back....

    With a preference for livelier and more dynamic speakers, I'd suggest auditioning the Monitor Audios.... that's pretty much their strongest points....

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    Please don't give Dynaudio a false stereotype. What they are is one of the most neutral speaker on the market. So if anyone finds them to be laid back it's because the electronics are laid back or not driving them properly. I've heard them with mostly Krell or Arcam and the presentation is very dynamic, fast and lively with an incredible bass response. I also have a pair of the Audience 60's whose main amp has been Adcom 5400 and 5500. The sound of the 60's vary even between those 2 amps. The 2 do sound different but the point is the 60's reveal the differences very well. I've also driven the 60's with different things I've had from vintage Luxman, Sansui and Yamaha. The 60's done an amazing job of being a cameleon, conveying the attributes, or lack there of, in each amp. Can the 62's be laid back, I'm sure with the right amp, like a Rotel or Yamaha, but with the right electronics they can also display one of the most dynamic presentations you will hear. I use my t2.5's with both Linn and C-J, they sound different with each system. As they sounded even different when I drove them with Krell.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Please don't give Dynaudio a false stereotype. What they are is one of the most neutral speaker on the market. So if anyone finds them to be laid back it's because the electronics are laid back or not driving them properly.

    "Neutral sounding" is the most arbitrary describption in audio. But Dyn's higher end speakers do sound more neutral than laidback or bright,

    As for Triangle, I used own a pair of Comete ES and found them to be fairly inconsistant. altro sax I heard was one of the best, but Tenor sax was one of the thinnest. Trumpet was never shy to be expressive while maintaining its crips edges, standup bass was nothing more than a muddy note. That's just my impression on Comete ES. I think their negative attributes can be reduced if their drivers are placed in much more rigid cabinets. Damn shame....

    I hope this helps.

    JRA

  7. #7
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Please don't give Dynaudio a false stereotype. What they are is one of the most neutral speaker on the market. So if anyone finds them to be laid back it's because the electronics are laid back or not driving them properly. I've heard them with mostly Krell or Arcam and the presentation is very dynamic, fast and lively with an incredible bass response. I also have a pair of the Audience 60's whose main amp has been Adcom 5400 and 5500. The sound of the 60's vary even between those 2 amps. The 2 do sound different but the point is the 60's reveal the differences very well. I've also driven the 60's with different things I've had from vintage Luxman, Sansui and Yamaha. The 60's done an amazing job of being a cameleon, conveying the attributes, or lack there of, in each amp. Can the 62's be laid back, I'm sure with the right amp, like a Rotel or Yamaha, but with the right electronics they can also display one of the most dynamic presentations you will hear. I use my t2.5's with both Linn and C-J, they sound different with each system. As they sounded even different when I drove them with Krell.
    This is exactly why I quit posting in these forums. We simply can't stand it when some doesn't share the same love of gear or god forbid, has a different opinion concerning something we happen to own and enjoy. If I didn't like them then surely it was the electronics and couldn't possibly have been the speakers themselves. I could pull my notes or if I was really motivated I could find exactly which amp was driving the danes. As I recall it was either Conrad-Johnson or Cary. In the end, what difference does it really make?

    "Incredible bass response"? Not likely or at the very least not by my standards. What are the 62's spec'd at? 45 Hz? That was quite a bit lower than your 60's if I recall. The reality of the situation is this - the 62's are basically big bookshelf speakers. Probably reasonably decent big bookshelf speakers but there's no denying what they are and there's not much sense just making things up.

    The 62's are the least expensive (most affordable?) floor standing speaker in the Dynaudio line up. Hardly the last word in sound reproduction so I sincerely doubt they will ever give me one of the most dynamic presentations I will ever hear. Don't forget, I heard them, it wasn't!


    jc
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  8. #8
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Please don't give Dynaudio a false stereotype. What they are is one of the most neutral speaker on the market. So if anyone finds them to be laid back it's because the electronics are laid back or not driving them properly. I've heard them with mostly Krell or Arcam and the presentation is very dynamic, fast and lively with an incredible bass response. I also have a pair of the Audience 60's whose main amp has been Adcom 5400 and 5500. The sound of the 60's vary even between those 2 amps. The 2 do sound different but the point is the 60's reveal the differences very well. I've also driven the 60's with different things I've had from vintage Luxman, Sansui and Yamaha. The 60's done an amazing job of being a cameleon, conveying the attributes, or lack there of, in each amp. Can the 62's be laid back, I'm sure with the right amp, like a Rotel or Yamaha, but with the right electronics they can also display one of the most dynamic presentations you will hear. I use my t2.5's with both Linn and C-J, they sound different with each system. As they sounded even different when I drove them with Krell.
    You really should lighten up... This is a very very very subjective hobby... hence not everyone will like your favourite gear... The fact that you like it, is all that matters...

    Since both Rotel and Yamaha are usually referred to as being/leaning towards 'bright'... and my problem with the Dynaudios (when paired with Rotel) were that they didn't have sufficient treble impact, I doubt that Arcam (which is often refered to as 'polite' and paired with 'bright' speakers such as Monitor Audio) would improve my experience with Dynaudio... Most likely such a pairing would make the Speakers even less appealing to me.... The point being that it's not the electronics that 'spoiled' perfect speakers... the speakers were just not to my tastes.... and there's nothing wrong with that....

  9. #9
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    Boo hoo, so JC your opinion is the one that counts and no one elses? It would seem respecting differences should go both ways not just when some one disagrees with you. You and Ajani don't like them, fine, neither does Topspeed.

    I own Dynaudio obviously, my local dealer carries them, I have heard the vast majority of their line, I hardly think I have to make things up. I also think I gave enough examples to back where I was coming from. A good speaker being "neutral" is very much dependent on the electronics. It means the speaker has no colorations or sonic characteristics of their own that enter the presentation no matter what electronics you use. If a speaker was "laid back" with every amp then the speaker is no good. I'm telling you it is a fact that any Dynaudio speaker from the 42's up will sound absolutely different depending on what equipment drive them. Mine sound quite a bit different with C-J then they did with my Krell. With the Krell the Dyn's frequency response was very extended with some of the most bone jarring transcient responses I've experienced. With the C-J I can maybe see "polite", I don't know about "laid back", the C-J still has good pace. The C-J doesn't play as deep in the bass and the extreme highs aren't there like with Krell.

    The 62's being 3rd from the bottom of the line, they aren't the last word in what Dynaudio has to offer but polite and laid back are not adjectives I would tag them with. Maybe in comparison to something like Klipsch one could make that claim. As far as their bass response goes with the addition of the Adcom 5500 in that system I have no need for a sub. Also, some of the statements I made were in general about Dynaudio. I find that those generalizations hold true throughout the line, but obviously in a particular models price range.

  10. #10
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I like the sound of Triangles, but they definitely need a good and fast sub. They have very detailed and crisp sound. They need a warmer sounding CD player like the Marantz SA8001 or an NAD CDP other wise I found the sound too bright.
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    Wow.. I made quite a mess here!!!

    Sorry for that and thanks for your answers guys!

    Regarding the amp... I will probably buy a 2x 50 W hybrid amp to run those speakers.
    Would that be enough power for the Dyns? Or for the other speakers I mentioned?

    Thanks again!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by groovastic
    Wow.. I made quite a mess here!!!

    Sorry for that and thanks for your answers guys!

    Regarding the amp... I will probably buy a 2x 50 W hybrid amp to run those speakers.
    Would that be enough power for the Dyns? Or for the other speakers I mentioned?

    Thanks again!
    No, they will indeed sound "Laid Back" with that little bit of power. Like I said in my first reply, playing the 42s with my HK avr635 was kind of a joke. Hooking them up to my Stratos modded amp pushing about 240wpc into 4ohms they came alive. The more I gave them the more alive they became.

    Don't wast your money on Dynaudio if you don't plan to have an amp that can drive them properly.

    I also have a pair of JMLabs Tantal 509s (Focal) that has the metal tweeter. Although they are very nice, fast, responsive, and have a brilliant midrange, they lack bass like most afordable JMs and after a few hours you get fatigued by the tweeter, well I do anyway. JC may hear it differently.

  13. #13
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by groovastic
    Wow.. I made quite a mess here!!!

    Sorry for that and thanks for your answers guys!

    Regarding the amp... I will probably buy a 2x 50 W hybrid amp to run those speakers.
    Would that be enough power for the Dyns? Or for the other speakers I mentioned?

    Thanks again!
    Groovastic-you didn't do a single thing wrong. Valid enough question and you got just enough responses to completely muddy the waters. That's the way it usually goes. In the end the only person you need to impress is yourself. If there was one universally "correct" answer there would be one speaker company. I bought my current set of speakers without ever having heard them so the fact that you're auditioning different models will make it easier, even if the auditions aren't perfect.

    Good luck,
    jc
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  14. #14
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    No, they will indeed sound "Laid Back" with that little bit of power. Like I said in my first reply, playing the 42s with my HK avr635 was kind of a joke. Hooking them up to my Stratos modded amp pushing about 240wpc into 4ohms they came alive. The more I gave them the more alive they became.

    Don't wast your money on Dynaudio if you don't plan to have an amp that can drive them properly.

    I also have a pair of JMLabs Tantal 509s (Focal) that has the metal tweeter. Although they are very nice, fast, responsive, and have a brilliant midrange, they lack bass like most afordable JMs and after a few hours you get fatigued by the tweeter, well I do anyway. JC may hear it differently.
    Hyfi,

    I've never heard any Tantals, but one thing of which I am absolutely 100% certain is that they don't have the BE tweeters. And btw, if those little domes bother you, I've got a set of KG 4.2's that might be lethal to you : )

    As always, nice to read your posts even if we do hear things quite differently.

    jc
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Hyfi,

    I've never heard any Tantals, but one thing of which I am absolutely 100% certain is that they don't have the BE tweeters. And btw, if those little domes bother you, I've got a set of KG 4.2's that might be lethal to you : )

    As always, nice to read your posts even if we do hear things quite differently.

    jc
    The Tantals have the Titanium tweeter. The Tantal line was replaced pretty quickly by the Chorus line.
    http://picnic.ciao.com/fr/26865.jpg

    the 509s are far right with two woofers and tweeter in the middle. I absolutely love these speakers for what they are used for. For me though, I can listen to the Danes at high volume much longer than the JMs. JMs are always lacking of base similar to Thiels untill you get to the Utopia line. Luckily, mine are set into some built-in corner cabinets which act like a larger enclosure and produce much more bass than if they are on stands outside the built-ins.

    I have heard the Grand Utopias and they were awesome, but then for that kind of money, they should come with a happy ending.

    Cheers JC, nice to message back and forth with you also.

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    I'm gonna listen to Audience 62 and Altea with Unison Research Unico P and I'll post my opinion. Can't wait! I even bought some new CDs just for Tuesday

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    What CD's did you buy? I'm not familiar with Unison but I'll be interested to hear your opinion.

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    I bought Me'shell NdegeOcello - Plantation Lullabies, Erykah Badu - Live, and Christian McBride - A Family Affair.

    In fact I've allready had 2 of those but don't have them any more.. A long story...
    Anyway, those are some of my favorite CDs of all the times!

    I think I'll take Miles Davis, Ella&Louis and Ray Brown CDs too. That should be enough.

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    Some nice choices groover...of the 4 you mentioned...I would side with dynaudio...which looks like you already have..the other 3...although very strong in key areas...are too bass shy imho...dynaudio clearly has the edge in bass response...however...looking at your musical tastes..and i hate to throw another speaker into the mix...i have to mention sonus faber...their presentation is less nuetral than the others...but far more expressive...just my .02...good luck

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    You have a nice variety, you should hear how the Dyn's perform equally as well on all genres. Does the Badu being live sound pretty well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Does the Badu being live sound pretty well?
    Badu live sounds pretty perfect! At least from a musicians point of view

  22. #22
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    It's all about synergy

    Some thoughts:

    Is the bass that we are demanding, unrealistic when compared to a live performance? When I'm at a concert, even smaller jazz venues while sitting in the front row, the bass hardly ever hits me in the chest. But when I turn it up at home, I keep wanting more of that pounding bass. Now, I still want it tight, but I want it visceral, and I wonder if that's realistic. Maybe our American taste for wanting everything bigger, bolder, louder is, while desired, an unrealistic expectation. Maybe those snooty French (and the Italians, too) know a bit more about what real music should sound like?

    Also, the Triangles have an amazing mid range and treble, and unlike other horn-loaded speakers (i.e. Klipsch), they are not fatiguing at all. The bass doesn't go deep, but it is still there and it does not drop off immediately as someone else suggested - it rolls off like it's supposed to. Let's remember that we're also talking about an entry-level speaker at a great price. Add a closed sub to it and you've got an amazing speaker - perhaps not up to the caliber of the VSA VR2, but that speaker is in a different league, I think.

    While the Dynaudios are often described as laid back, I have found that they are extremely picky with amplifiers. I had a pair of Audience 82s, and while I tried everything from 60-1000W amps, it wasn't always the most powerful amps that brought out the best in them. Krell always comes up as a good match and I must say I agree. Class D amps, with all the power reserves they typically pack, were not a good match at all.

    The other thing I noticed with my Dynaudios was that they had incredibly flat response. For a speaker that runs $800-ish on the used market, that's a hell of a good speaker for the money. But one has to have the right kind of amp to drive them properly. Class A amps come to mind, but I'm sure a high powered Bryston or Anthem would be a good match as well. Ironically, if money is tight, I found that some of the higher-end NAD amps are also a good match, despite the typically low power ratings. HK amps: not so good - and I honestly can't say why that is.

    But Groovastic is looking to use a low-powered Unico amp, and while it will probably work, it won't bring out the best from the Dynaudios that a higher-quality and power amp will. So if he's set on that amp, the Triangles are definitely worth a look - the French and Italian gear seem to have good synergy. I would also add Quad, Epos, Castle (if you can find 'em), or even Tannoy to the list to give the Brits a shake. They don't require too much power, have decent bass, and have meaty mid ranges that could rival the Triangles / JMLabs. If anything, they would provide a good differentiation from the French speakers.

    Anyhow, that's my 2c. And if anyone is going to be pooring out any French or Italian wines over this, send the bottles to me instead .

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    NF, I'd say you got it right on Dynaudio. Adcom drives my 60's well too. The 5400 at 125x2 was a tad bright but the 5500 at 200x2 is an excellent match, better frequency balance and plenty of clean, high current, power. I'm not familiar with Unison Research. My Conrad Johnson MV-60 at 50x2 tube power drove my t2.5's pretty well. Once I got another and had them monoized though then I could get some decent volume when needed. Even in stereo though the MV60 was able to sound full it just didn't have the volume I was used to.

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    I wrote a HUGE review and somehow lost it so this time I'll just post a short post

    Dynaudio Audience 62 has a lot of deep and strong bass, but unless listening to jazz, it can sound unreal (not in a good way)! Highs can get quite annoying, and mids are nothing special. Don't get me wrong... It's yet a very good speaker!

    Triangle Altea has much much nicer highs and wonderful open mids, but lacks power in bass. And depth, compared to Dynaudio!

    If I hadn't heared Dyn's first, would have probably bought Alteas.
    If only I could find a speaker with depth of Dynaudio, but with a bitt less accent on bass, and still more power in bass than Triangle! But with Triangle's highs and mids.

    Maybe a stronger amp might be worth a try! Perhaps Unico would work much better with Altea...
    But maybe I just got spoiled with Dyn's tremendous bass power!

  25. #25
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by groovastic
    I wrote a HUGE review and somehow lost it so this time I'll just post a short post

    Dynaudio Audience 62 has a lot of deep and strong bass, but unless listening to jazz, it can sound unreal (not in a good way)! Highs can get quite annoying, and mids are nothing special. Don't get me wrong... It's yet a very good speaker!

    Triangle Altea has much much nicer highs and wonderful open mids, but lacks power in bass. And depth, compared to Dynaudio!

    If I hadn't heared Dyn's first, would have probably bought Alteas.
    If only I could find a speaker with depth of Dynaudio, but with a bitt less accent on bass, and still more power in bass than Triangle! But with Triangle's highs and mids.

    Maybe a stronger amp might be worth a try! Perhaps Unico would work much better with Altea...
    But maybe I just got spoiled with Dyn's tremendous bass power!
    I'd suggest you keep auditioning different speakers... as you will probably find one that sounds the way you want it to... but it'll take a bit of auditioning and patience...

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