Can you hear?

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Originally Posted by SpankingVanillaice

Ok 3 db is "barely" audiable now I know what I always wanted to know. But what freq on my speakers drop 3 db? Since my S26 is rated -3 db.

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Look, it's going to be all over the place. Get a freq. response graph and look at the damn thing. There will be peaks and valleys everywhere! The key is (pay attention here):
IT DOESN'T MEAN SH!T!

You don't know if the measurements were anechoic, in room, testing parameters, or whatever. The measurements will be different in your room anyway so who cares?

Good Lord kid, just listen to the music!

Were can I get a graph for the S26?

Were can I get a graph for the HLS410 too??

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Originally Posted by SpankingVanillaice

Were can I get a graph for the S26?

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If knowing every last detail about your speakers means that much to you, then why don't you do your own measurements and tell us how they perform? Here's an RTA program that you can download for that purpose.

http://www.trueaudio.com/

Personally, I would heed topspeed's advice and just enjoy your speakers rather than endlessly spinning all this minutae.

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Originally Posted by SpankingVanillaice

Were can I get a graph for the S26?

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say the graph was really bad, full of peaks and nulls. Would you sell the speakers? It probably will be cause every room reacts to the speakers differently. Are you trying to get us to tell you your speakers are the best so we boost your self esteem because you have none off the computer?

.. .that the kid reworded his question after three people already tried to answer the original poorly worded question?

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Originally Posted by markw

As usual, I have NO idea what you are trying to say, but a 3db change is barely audible. Note the "barely"

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I am spoiling for a fight, I have appeared on the thread, now defend your statement above. I say that 3dB is an audibly noticable increase and yep I am piggy backing off newbsterv2's post.

Mr. Huge Ego,

I suppose noticeable and barely mean the same thing, don't they?

so after all that tough talk, you simply whimpered out on a lame excuse, ho..hum..so much for the macho talk hee..you finally realised that you were wrong afterall. May you learn to accept correction gracefully in the future.

Game over since you whimpered out.

Markw, apologies for the crossing of swords, I enjoyed it while it lasted though :D. I should have guessed that you were simply bluffing. Still accept my sincerest apologies, next time when you commit a boo boo online, I will stay silent, since I now know your ego is rather huge and fragile :p .

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Originally Posted by theaudiohobby

Markw, apologies for the crossing of swords...

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Gee guys, didn't this get a bit heated over degrees of subjectivity? I appreciate the self control (on both sides). To a degree, i agree with both of you.

Indeed conventional widsom for a long while was 3 db was the least amount of perceptible change. And that required a doubling of power to achieve. I would say it is more like 1 db given the change I sense using the 1 db stepped balance control on my preamp. I would further agree that the audible difference between 1 db and 3 db is relatively small. The new McIntosh C-46 preamp touts 0.5 db steps for its attenuator. Now, that may be cutting it a bit finely!

rw

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Originally Posted by SpankingVanillaice

What I am woundering is that can I hear the difference on a speaker compairing with one that is +- 3db or -3 db to a speaker that is just +- 1 db???

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This one frequency response spec tells you almost nothing about how the speaker is voiced...or how it sounds.


to answer your questions...
Yes, you can have two speakers that have a rating difference of 2db...and they could still sound similar (or different)

You can also have two speakers that have this same frequency rating, but the two can sound very different (or similar).

unless there are some gross problems showing an obvious flaw...I wouldn't get too hung up on them.





dan

i agree just enjoy your speakers and quit making us nebraskans look bad our football team is doing a good enough job of that.

More bad news about perceived level:

First, the doubling of sound level is stated as a RANGE because no two people have identical linearity of hearing. This range is typically 6 to 10dB for perceived doubling, and depends on the listener, and the threshold of audibility, pain threshold, and where in between the step is created.

Next, Fletcher/Munson curves for "perceived loudness" have been used for many years to illustrate deficiencies even larger at the frequency extremes; deep bass and extreme treble. While some of their research methodology has been called into question about the SPECIFIC profiles of their curves, there is no doubt that the non-linearity is frequency dependent.

Add to this TLS (Temporary Level Shift) which adds further compression over time, and it gets harder to decide where a specific relative level is at all.

The biggest deal about speakers sounding different, is that frequency response is only ONE specification out of so many considerations, some of which aren't even well understood yet, like velocity of standing waves vs. stiffness and damping in diaphragms. This means two speakers with indistinguishable frequency plots may still sound very different because of their energy emission OVER TIME, and how quickly they can start and stop making sound in comparison to the input signal. That is just ONE example. See the Fostex website for discussions about the diaphragm issues.

http://www.fostex.com/support/pdf/fo...hite_paper.pdf