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GMichael-My apologies it was very early in the morn and my brain was just reving up. What I meant to say is that Bose and McDonalds are both mass marketers but the general public generally percieve Bose to be at or near the top within their field where as most people would not say McDonald's makes the best hamburgers.
HAVIC-Your nomination of ipod might not be too far off the mark. While shopping for a MP3 player for my daughter earlier in the year I had a lot of salesman pushing me toward the ipods versus the iriver or other competitors which were less expensive. Admittedly my knowledge of these products is even lower than my limited audio knowledge so maybe they had my best interest in mind. With my daughter and others in her age group ipod appears to have captured that "percieved value" market that Resident Loser mentioned earlier.
I wonder if in a few years we will hear about the salesmen pushing ipod because of the higher commision structure/profit margin that ipods have and that "patented" AAC technology in ipods is a ripoff of other technology..... etc....you know the drill.
Topspeed- interesting observation maybe over exposure will be the achilles heel for Bose and in the end its recognized strength in marketing will become its greatest weakness.
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Whoa, whoa there nelly! Hold up quick draw....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident Loser
...with all due respect, while that may be the case (although I seriously doubt Bose would need to plant a shill given their non-audiopile customer base), I must question your use of the word "indefensible"...
What do you find "indefensible"?
The fact that someone, somewhere...who actually isn't a marketing-smitten boob, might actually prefer a Bose product?
I've already voiced my reservations about some of their stuff...
Their pricing, while high, is based on their advertising costs AND the always-cited argument re: low cost of raw materials they use vs. pricing, isn't the only facet to take into consideration.
If you read any books on marketing/business strategies, one of the biggest arbiters of pricing is percieved value...why else would some cups of coffee cost upwards of $4, certain toiletries (which are mostly ionized or distilled water) cost a day's pay per ounce or specific brands of womens' shoes cost $600-800 a pair?
I object to their closed-loop systems for obvious reasons...but...the 3-2-1 system is unarguably the simplest approach for a psuedo-surround HT experience...The whole HT enchilada is predominantly based on the unreal boom and sizzle of my oft mentioned laser-totin' mechanical lizards, so this product just carries it to a logical (and obviously acceptable-by-a-part-of the-buying-public) conclusion...fun and fast, plug'n'play...cheez'n'crackers it's only tee-vee...and FWIW I find the sound produced, given the premise of HT in general, to be quite satisfying and otherwise technically interesting...
I also object to the single summing bass module of the Acoustimass/Lifestyle stuff...but I also have a problem with single summing subs in general...in saying that however, if set up properly (as any intelligent audio enthusiast would position the components) a reasonbly respectable presentation would result. Not to mention the "value" (perceived and otherwise) of the decorating/WAF...
And whilst on the subject, while I may be a bit of a Bose-O-phile, placement and positioning is certainly a big issue with most of their line...
I purchased my 901-IIs (MSRPd @$525/pr)in '75...based, in part, on what I found as strong, technical reasons...no woofers, no tweeters, no crossovers...just nine 4.5" full-range drivers with +/- 1/4in. excursion and the equivalent output of a 12" woofer, with none of the cone mass and potential for hangover, etc. The ususal counter to that I oftimes hear is the spec of a high distortion figure...I've never heard any distortion or degredation of sound attributable to such...P.S. In practice...like it or not, believe it or not, it works. Obviously anecdotal and included only FWIW (which I realize is zero!), I perceive it as smooth, crisp and tight, well-extended bass response, felt as well as heard.
I've gone through a bit of work to coax the best performance out of them, but not really much more than other's who are as serious about sound. When I moved into my house, I had to build a half-wall for the right speaker to do it's direct/reflect thing and balance out the dispersion pattern/soundfield produced. In addition to reasonable room tweaking, the SAE half-octave EQ I added before becoming lord of the manor, aided in further refining the sound...Having a Crown test disk, an SPL meter and a more-than-tolerant wife, many FR plots later, I had a system that was EQd from the stylus to my preferred listening position...I determined that, at least for me, flat wasn't where it was at, so I have incorporated a gentle roll-off of freqs above 8-10k which sounds more natural...it hands me a laff when I read the ol' party-line-mantra of "...no highs, no lows...it must be Bose..."
Then there's the 301s I used to use as rears when I was into the whole post-quad, ambience recovery phase or the 101s that were bracketed over my bed (and would whack me whenever I forgot they were there). 901s and 301s=excellent sonic match for surround, synthesized or otherwise...in fact the both EQd to a very simialr response curve...The 101s were compact and operating as near-field radiators, were nearly oblivious to room effects.
The over 30yr.-old 901s are still alive and kickin'...the 301s (victims of foam-rot) and 101s are no longer used...the bedroom now has a GPX CDP ($7 after rebate) plugged (via a RS adapter) into basic Wave radio (won in a non-audio retailers promotion-I would never pay that much for a clock-radio) which, when properly positioned, sounds quite good BTW...plus it has a small footprint and doesn't bop me noggin'...
I have often said, given the whole direct/reflecting aspect of the majority of Bose loudspeakers, a comparison with direct-radiator systems is simply untenable...neither sounds like the other, nor given their immense design differences, should they...I won't tell anyone what they should buy and I certainly don't tout Bose products...even though they have worked for me for over 30yrs. That is a decision that the individual should arrive at for themselves...you will either like them or you won't, but they are a completely different animal and must be appreciated and more importantly listened to, from a different perspective and with a different mindset.
jimHJJ(...and for some they just might be the "best"...)
Wait you took me wrong. I'm not in the "all Bose is crap" camp. I owned 901's in both the civilian and pro-audio incarnations. Not all Bose is bad. I think their H.T. systems are over priced garbage but that wasn't the point of my response... My comment were about the guys overzealous defense of Bose to the point where he would not respond to any "reasoned" debate. As other's pointed out he'd answer pointed, rational comments or questions with broadbased characterizations and dogma. That's what made me think he might have been a shill. I've dealt with plants and shills on other boards. I'm serious... company's know now that a products bad rep on boards can kill it with enthusiasts so they've taken this tack.
No I'm willing to listen to any "reasoned" opinion as my post history on this board has proven, but I'm skeptical of zealots of any stripe, why do you think I avoid Florian LOL!
Da Worfster
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[QUOTE=thekid]GMichael-My apologies it was very early in the morn and my brain was just reving up. What I meant to say is that Bose and McDonalds are both mass marketers but the general public generally percieve Bose to be at or near the top within their field where as most people would not say McDonald's makes the best hamburgers.
QUOTE]
No apologies needed. I figured that it was just a stray thought that wandered too far from the heard. So I attacked it like a jackle after a lost sheep.
But if it's OK, I'd like to throw in another twisted thought. If you were to ask 1000 kids from the ages of 3 to 13, "who makes the best burgers" you just might get a fair percentage of them saying McyD's. My twisted thought is that, the people who like Bose cube systems are beginers in the HT hobby. Much like these kids are new to good food. So that makes the McDonnalds idea a little closer to what you were looking for. Not many people who have actually tried better systems ever go back to Bose.
Not that I feel that Bose is crap. I still eat at McyD's once in a while too though.
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Trust me Worf...
...no offense taken...just curious as to what you found "indefensible"...simply took the opportunity to post an open-letter more or less...
It's just every once in a while...well...
jimHJJ(...you know the drill...)
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I owned bose 601's and 901's and enjoyed them back in the 80's, but i didn't have the opportunity to listen to high end. once you listen to high end, you aren't gonna turn back to bose if you are partially SANE! sure, there are loudspeakers far more overpriced than BOSE, but they are also far more qualitied in parts and design. Bose like many products are overhyped like NIKE SNEAKERS not speakers! You can get a nike sneakers for $10 in korea and buy it in england or U.S. for 100 pounds or dollars. The same with bose, you spend $4000 on cheap crappy lifestyle system, for that you can get MARTIN LOGANS or an entire AXIOM SYSTEM for a lot less or even get an excellent set of orbs, mirage, anthony gallos and kleggs. You talk about live sound, OHM blows away bose by miles or lightspeed. If you want affordable loudspeakers around $250, another option is FLUANCE, it's a decent canadian company that makes inexpensive good quality sound HT system. I got some SM-938 for my brother and he enjoys them. So much to choose from aside from bose. I'd rather get CHEAP SONY'S over bose, unless you plan on buying a bose 901 or 802's! those are ok if they were priced HALF of what they sell them for! if they sold 901's for $500, i don't think even the most critical among AUDIOPHILES would be so critical and bashing. THE ONLY SPEAKER COMPANY THAT MATCHES the controversy of bose is THEATER RESEARCH OR DOGG DIGITAL?
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Why are you CAPITALIZING so many THINGS?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf101
Wait you took me wrong. I'm not in the "all Bose is crap" camp. I owned 901's in both the civilian and pro-audio incarnations. Not all Bose is bad. I think their H.T. systems are over priced garbage but that wasn't the point of my response... My comment were about the guys overzealous defense of Bose to the point where he would not respond to any "reasoned" debate. As other's pointed out he'd answer pointed, rational comments or questions with broadbased characterizations and dogma. That's what made me think he might have been a shill. I've dealt with plants and shills on other boards. I'm serious... company's know now that a products bad rep on boards can kill it with enthusiasts so they've taken this tack.
No I'm willing to listen to any "reasoned" opinion as my post history on this board has proven, but I'm skeptical of zealots of any stripe, why do you think I avoid Florian LOL!
Da Worfster
Who are you calling a shill?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njspeer
Who are you calling a shill?
Most likely anyone exhibiting shill like behaviors.
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Errr.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by njspeer
Who are you calling a shill?
I suspect any "nugget" with a low posting record, a combative attitude, an unrealistic and out of character love for any ONE product of possibly being a shill for a company. I didn't come to this attitude out of thin air. Companies have been caught and confessed to paying people to frequent forums to tout their products. You wouldn't be the first or the last if that is indeed what you are...
Da Worfster
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Is this tread ever going to stop?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio_dude
Is this tread ever going to stop?
not of this stuff keeps up.
what do you think?
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-ahahahahahahaha-
shake,
rinse,
repeat,
-ahahahahahahaha-
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OP: I was able to pick up a pair of Canton GL-260s recently (used) for $115. They are wonderful speakers if you can find them in good condition and for a good price. Any Canton bookshelf would be great for the setup you propose. I am glad you are no longer considering the Bose. You wouldn't be happy.
I got mine through Craigslist. Had to take the bus over to some stranger's house, and it was a little weird. He really didn't seem like he wanted to part with them. As soon as I verified they were in working order, I wanted to buy them and go, but he kept playing different pieces to show off different aspects of the sound. I have no idea why, if a guy liked his speakers so well, he would part with them. Funny enough, I had given a pair of mine away to my brother's kids and had regretted it ever since.
As you can see, there is a gentleman selling these speakers on the web for $795.
edit: www.componentaudio.com
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PLEASE, in that name of all that is holy, STOP BUMPING THIS THREAD!
Let it die...along with every other f**king Bose thread.
Move along, nothing to see here, move along...
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Why did you just bump it, then?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf101
I suspect any "nugget" with a low posting record, a combative attitude, an unrealistic and out of character love for any ONE product of possibly being a shill for a company. I didn't come to this attitude out of thin air. Companies have been caught and confessed to paying people to frequent forums to tout their products. You wouldn't be the first or the last if that is indeed what you are...
Da Worfster
How does advocating buying a pair of 30 year old speakers for ~$300 help any company other than eBay or Craig's List? You don't really think I'm a shill. Calling me a shill is just the easy way out.
Just admit that I'm correct in my generalization of snobby, gullible, insecure, wine-and-cheese-party-having, silver-cable-buying audiophiles.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njspeer
How does advocating buying a pair of 30 year old speakers for ~$300 help any company other than eBay or Craig's List? You don't really think I'm a shill. Calling me a shill is just the easy way out.
Just admit that I'm correct in my generalization of snobby, gullible, insecure, wine-and-cheese-party-having, silver-cable-buying audiophiles.
Oh my you are at it again. Trying to have the last word. You sir are not correct.
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This is back again? njspeer, your comments about the people here only show that you have put the same amount of research into getting to know the people here as you have put into finding out what real audio is.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
This is back again? njspeer, your comments about the people here only show that you have put the same amount of research into getting to know the people here as you have put into finding out what real audio is.
"Real audio." ... "Real audio??" No sir, no snobbery on this board. I was way off basis on that one.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njspeer
"Real audio." ... "Real audio??" No sir, no snobbery on this board. I was way off basis on that one.
Snobbery is all about your perception. You happen to be backing a product that's almost impossible to rationalize if sound quality is the primary concern. And yet you're trying to. You've got an uphill battle you can't really win.
:17:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njspeer
"Real audio." ... "Real audio??" No sir, no snobbery on this board. I was way off basis on that one.
Once again, take a look at my system. The price tag is less than yours. So, I must be a snob because I took the time to find out that Bose is not what they claim to be and saved some cash? Wake up and smell the coffee. Or better yet, just go listen to something else. Are you afraid that we may all be right?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
Once again, take a look at my system. The price tag is less than yours. So, I must be a snob because I took the time to find out that Bose is not what they claim to be and saved some cash? Wake up and smell the coffee. Or better yet, just go listen to something else. Are you afraid that we may all be right?
:sleep: .............:Yawn:.............:sosp:........snif f, sniff........(OHHH, too much wine last night).....:Yawn:.......sniff.......(Hmm, smells like someone made coffee).........:)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.J.
:sleep: .............:Yawn:.............:sosp:........snif f, sniff........(OHHH, too much wine last night).....:Yawn:.......sniff.......(Hmm, smells like someone made coffee).........:)
And french toast too. Like some?
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Holy carp!!!...
...I can't believe this thing is still breathin'...
jimHJJ(...better sound through research...)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.J.
:sleep: .............:Yawn:.............:sosp:........snif f, sniff........(OHHH, too much wine last night).....:Yawn:.......sniff.......(Hmm, smells like someone made coffee).........:)
I also drank wine last night. It came from a box and my cables are copper.
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