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Originally Posted by RGA
Then you might like PMC Transmission Lines - Audio Note's AZ are transmission lines though they call it something else.
I didn't know AN made a t-line.
I'm really curious about the claims you're making about the wood vs. MDF here and elsewhere. Does AN talk about this specifically in any of their literature suggesting why this would "improve" the speaker's sound? The only literature I've ever seen suggesting wood could outperform MDF sonically is if the cabinet is made out of 1 piece of wood, chiseled and hollowed to design. A solid 1 piece cabinet. And I'm not saying MDF outperforms a good wood, the choice on which to use is usually influenced by looks vs. the ease to work with, not sound.
This is a very old argument in the DIY community though, without bringing that all up again, I would use cables as an analogy. Those that believe wood is better will stand by that claim to the death. Either way, most agree if the difference even is there, it is probably the single smallest contributor to sound in the complete system (assuming all other aspects remain constant).
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MDF vs. Wood
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Originally Posted by kexodusc
I didn't know AN made a t-line.
I'm really curious about the claims you're making about the wood vs. MDF here and elsewhere. Does AN talk about this specifically in any of their literature suggesting why this would "improve" the speaker's sound? The only literature I've ever seen suggesting wood could outperform MDF sonically is if the cabinet is made out of 1 piece of wood, chiseled and hollowed to design. A solid 1 piece cabinet. And I'm not saying MDF outperforms a good wood, the choice on which to use is usually influenced by looks vs. the ease to work with, not sound.
MDF is good for speakers in that it has linear properties of resonance. Wood, in and of it's nature is chaotic, and if you build a speaker using wood, then you do not have control of the resonant properties of your cabinet. Wood makes a great material for making musical instruments because it can be crafted by an artist for the sound, with each instrument being individual. But for speakers it's the wrong thing, as unique properties are NOT what you want in a speaker.
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Well said Geoffcin...though there is some charm with wood. If the proper insulating material, or ether or some liquid treatment is used though, you can usually get by with wood. I've never done it myself but I'd love to someday. A nice baltic birch would look incredible.
The properties of each speaker in a pair would be differently affected using natural wood though, no two pieces would be the same. The variance would be far greater than MDF. How big a difference this is would depend on each piece of wood though. You probably wouldn't know until the speaker was actually built, a time consuming effort, and one that makes duplicating and matching speakers that much more difficult.
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Audio Note has a 100% check rate. They are so anal that every driver they order is checked to their tolerances to make sure whatthey get from SEAS is up to snuff. People can argue forever about wood versus MDF. If the goal is to damp EVERYTHING then using a material that Damps everything makes by far the most sense - hence MDF. AN does not want to damp everything however. Peter claims that doing that whiole damping the resonances also damps a major part of the music you catually WANT to hear. Throwingt he baby out with the bathwater. So instead he claims that you want to damp only those things you want to remove and keep the rest intact.
Of course this is a different approach than all other boxed speaker makers - why do you think that I think they are the best speakers available. The only way that can be done is by not doing what everyone else is doing because to follow the logic if AN is right then everyone else must be wrong. That does not mean I'm saying they're perfect or that I don't like any other speakers - but the approach IMO they've taken sounds more like music to me. Some will find the speakers a bit colored. Paul messener said of the AN E/LX while giving it a Best Buy that some won't appreciate this(Though he kept them for himself).
I said when reviewing that AN will be for the folks not satisfied with the usual suspects currently available. If you want musical speakers AN is it - if you want techy analytical cannons and fireworks as they say speakers look elsewhere. That is not an apology - the goal is to make music musical.
Listening to a Piano from any disc good or bad on an AN J or E and then on a slim line floorstanding sepaker from B&W or Paradigm, PSB and it does not take an audiophile to know which one makes the sound resembling the piano.
From their site they simply say "The AN-E is a two-way, ported enclosure, with a carefully designed cabinet which is shaped to enhance and aid driver dispersion on one hand, and bass output on the other. The cabinet is lightly braced and little internal damping is used. The cabinet is designed in such a way that it augments and supports the drivers in their task, not unlike the box of a guitar."
Peter will come off arrogant but IMO from what I've heard over the last 14 years he's dead right. He even uses the phrase Cannons and Fireworks Which I have been *****ing about for a decade. As for the wood. Some folks on AA have said speakers not using real wood or Stone are not real loudspeakers. I think it depends on the application. Birch has no internal voids was mentioned over there as being major plus.
Basically it is a listen to it product. I'll post their little reason why they think they're right. Steinway and Bosendorfer have no trouble making fine exacting painos from real words. http://www.audionote.co.uk/speakers/spkr.htm
This review may provide more infor http://www.dagogo.com/AudioNoteAN-E-SEC-SILVER.html Also a search at AA has discussed this as well I believe.
Lastly the Absolute Zero floorstanders are transmission lines though AN calls them quarter wave folded horns or some such thing - but it's a varient of a T-Line. It's their lower end series though so don't expect miracles. Though they do reach a good 40hz
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Wow RGA
It's always hard to tell in text, but that last post of yours read like you were very defensive, insulted, and possibly angry. I don't see anybody here insulting you or AN.
Although I would submit that the success in AN's speakers has less to do with what Peter Q says he's doing, and more to do with what Peter Q actually (secretly) does.
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Sorry Kex my reply was certainly not meant angrily or defensively - I was waiting for someone to pick me up to play soem Tennis so I just kind of rushed to get a fuller reply in.
The trouble is I can't explain to you what is going on because I don't work there. Simply relaying fractured very segmented tid bits I've picked up to form some cohesive answer. AN isn't really one for giving away much information largely because Peter wants people to hear his product. Does it really matter whether the product uses Birch or MDF or uses Silver or not or uses Black Gates or not or 12 drivers or a Ribbon or not or is crossoverless or is time aligned or on and on? What matters is the way it sounds.
It was and is the best sounding product Soundhounds Carries imo by such a wide margin that to me whatever they are doing it's right. So I, like most people, go and look at them and say right so what's up with this and a simple two way with a mere 8 inch woofer in a plain rectangle box. Where's the 4 woofers of the Studio 100(which has way less bass) where's the kevlar and fancy smancy top loaded high tech tweeter (that sounds far less extended open and smooth), where's the sidefiring built in subwoofers that also have less bass)?
I have realized that all the stuff is unecessary - The so-called new superior or modern designs don't seem to do what his basic two way does. In a way I am kind of angry. I'm angry that most of the stuff the mighty mega corporations con us into thinking is better isnt't. And more to the point if they wanted to they could build a stripped down version to the average Joe for $800.00Cdn and if it was even 80% of the AN E/L it would still be more enjoyable to listen to IMO of course than 98% of stuff that supposedly is high end.
Unfortunately, it takes up more room on sales shop floors, and is tougher to sell 5.1 of these.
I remember Woochifer said that he would rather hear 5.1 SACD to 2 channel and the n used an analogy that would I rather listen to One speaker in mono over two in Stereo.
Well I would rather listen to One AN speaker in mono than most stereo speakers. I said I'd rather listen to two good channels than 5 lousy ones - and that holds for stereo - I would rather listen to one good speaker than two lousy ones. Well that might be a little over the top :D
And hey you can always ask Peter directly as to why he would use Birch over MDF. He frequents Audio Asylum. Even his engineer Andy Grove comes by sometimes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGA
Does it really matter whether the product uses Birch or MDF or uses Silver or not or uses Black Gates or not or 12 drivers or a Ribbon or not or is crossoverless or is time aligned or on and on? What matters is the way it sounds.
Yes it matters, Im thinking I'd like to build a pair on the cheap, I have to know as much about it to start though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGA
I have realized that all the stuff is unecessary - The so-called new superior or modern designs don't seem to do what his basic two way does. In a way I am kind of angry. I'm angry that most of the stuff the mighty mega corporations con us into thinking is better isnt't.
My take on most of the modern superior designs is that it's mostly all "gimmick". More so for the marketing. There isn't much new and modern in them but rather older ideas refined. I think a great deal of the money invested (though not always) is spent on developing cheap and fast ways of facilitating concept to production instead of furthering design. A manufacturer builds a decent speaker at a decent price, then the engineers, instead of improving the speaker, consult with the marketing dept on how to sell the speaker (insert yellow woofers and fancy mounting plates here) and how to produce it and ship it as cheap as possible. I could be wrong though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGA
I remember Woochifer said that he would rather hear 5.1 SACD to 2 channel and the n used an analogy that would I rather listen to One speaker in mono over two in Stereo.
Well I would rather listen to One AN speaker in mono than most stereo speakers. I said I'd rather listen to two good channels than 5 lousy ones - and that holds for stereo - I would rather listen to one good speaker than two lousy ones. Well that might be a little over the top :D
Not me, and I honestly suspect not you either. I've tried this both with one speaker and with 2. Mono to me really neutralizes the advantages a good speaker has over a bad one.
Yuck. But if you had to Cerwin Vega towers in Mono you could blast the hell out of them and it'd still be fun. 2 ch. vs. 5.1, well, the the jury still out here, I've heard it both ways, when it's done right 5.1 is awesome, but to me it's not done right enough yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGA
And hey you can always ask Peter directly as to why he would use Birch over MDF. He frequents Audio Asylum. Even his engineer Andy Grove comes by sometimes.
This I might do soon. I'm already doing a bit more research into the matter, I might try all-wood cabinets once I'm finished my current project.
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Thanks Matt
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Originally Posted by matt39
Hi fahertyps,
Just thought I'd suggest a possible alternative to the Monitor Audio B2. If you have a PSB dealer in your area you might want to audition the new Image B25. It's in your price range at $450 and is also front ported. While I haven't yet heard this model, I auditioned it's predecessor the Image 2B extensively and they were very good speakers so the new model could be worth a listen. The Monitor is an excellent choice but the PSB could at least give you something to compare. One thing I was wondering, do you like your Mini Monitors? Seems to me they would compete directly with what you're considering. Good luck.
I was beginning to think this post had taken on a life of its own... I decided to go with the Monitor Audio B2. I have not hear them, but have read so many good reviews that I thought I'd chance it. I'm pretty limited where I live. Most of the high end dealers are over an hour away from me--even my favorite Paradigm dealer. As far as the Mini Monitors, I like them quite a bit as the fronts in my surround system. I was limited by size there also. Hope I won't be disappointed.
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