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  1. #1
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    Bookshelf or floorstanding speakers??

    I am not an audiophile i just want better sound system for music & movies (50/50) in my living room.

    My living & dining is in the same area of about 40' x 17', but i'm just gonna setup the system at the living area (17' x 17'). Should i get bookshelf or floorstanding speakers?

    I have auditioned AE Evo 3 (obsolete models therefore steep discount), Monitor Audio RS8 and Sonus Faber Concertino Domus, and i really like the Concertino for its clarity and craftmanship. The demo room is about 12' x 20'.

    I am now deciding between SF Concertino and MA RS8. Since i'm already planning to get a sub, is the Concertino/VX-10 combination or RS8 better for 2-channel music listening?

    Other equipments in consideration:
    Sonus Faber Center Domus (if Concertino) or Monitor Audio LCR Center (if RS8)
    Velodyne VX-10 subwoofer
    Wharfedale Rear Diamond 9 DFS
    Yamaha RX-V861 AV Amplifier
    Pioneer DV600 DVD Player

    What do you think of the combination of equipments above?

    Thanks for your help!!

  2. #2
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    I would go with the Faber's myself although that is based on reviews only,i have heard neither.I am partial to French speakers myself but have been told that those Italian beauties sound similar,and they are beauties are they not.On a side note i would look at something better than a Yamaha reciever to drive them with,like putting a Toyota engine in your Ferrari.For music especially.

    bill
    Speakers-Jm Labs
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  3. #3
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    The best advice about speakers is to buy what sounds good to you! Listen to as many speakers as possible. Don't buy on some else's opinion. You may want to ask for an opinion on what speakers to listen too, but it all comes down to what sounds good to your ears.

    Just another word of advice. Don't skimp on your CDP or DVD player and don't over spend on speaker wire and cables. You can buy good wires and cables with out spending a fortune.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  4. #4
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    SF is truly such a beauty that i had a crush with it on first sight!! That's why i asked for a demo and discovered that it also has inner beauty!!! The sound blew me away!!!

    So which receiver would you recommend? Is there a receiver that produces good quality sound on both music & movies? Or do I need separate amp for music and movies?

    If separate amp, can anyone recommend a good amp to drive SF Concertino Domus/Velodyne VX-10 sub combination for music only? I think i need a sub to take care of the low freq with the Concertino bookshelf, right?

    Now i sounded like a perfect stranger to the audio world... please help!!

  5. #5
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    Well there are many options,first what was the audio shop driving them with? This might be a good place to start,also establish a budget.You also need to decide on which features you want or need,such as video switching,HDMI,autoset up multi zone,and things of that nature.You often find that the more features that are included the less resources are used for sound quality.Myself i use an Anthem pre/pro feeding a Cambridge Audio reciever used as a power amp in turn feeding my Focal-JM Labs speakers.The Cambridge is my weak point but that will be addressed soon.

    bill
    Speakers-Jm Labs
    Disc player-Sim Audio Moon Calypso
    Pre-amp-Sim Audio P-5.3 SE
    dac= sim audio moon 300d

    Amp-Sim Audio Moon I-3
    Display-Toshiba CRT
    Wires and Cables-Kimber,Straight Wire, ixos, Gutwire and shunyata research
    Sacd-Cambridge Audio
    Bluray--Sony and Cambridge Audio
    Remote-- Harmony 1100

    Power-- Monster

  6. #6
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Since you liked the MA's too, you could check out their GS line too, something like a GS 60 or a GS20, the finish is way more beautiful than the RS series (I especially like the GS line in Piano black), and the sound is also really nice...

    however, with both speakers you mentioned, I don't think a yamaha would sound great with them (they can be pretty bright sounding...)...

    How big is your budget, actually?
    Life is music!

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    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  7. #7
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    The audio shop is driving the speakers with a Yamaha RX-V861, and this is the only amp i have demoed. The fact is, I have been spending most of my time choosing speakers (neglecting amps & players) because I think getting a good pair of main speakers would increase my immunity against the upgrade bugs

    I plan to spend around $4k for a 5.1 system. If I get all the equipments as below i would be 10% over budget.

    Sonus Faber Concertino Domus
    Sonus Faber Center Domus
    Velodyne VX-10 subwoofer
    Wharfedale Rear Diamond 9 DFS
    Yamaha RX-V861 AV Amplifier
    Pioneer DV600 DVD Player

    If this is going to save me some bucks in long run i don't mind spending the extra 10%. I can always upgrade the 2-channel music quality later on by adding a good stereo amp / pre-amp and a CD player as budget allows. This is of course based on the assumption that there is no single good amp for both music and movies, hence I still need the RX-V861 for 5.1 movies.

    I am still wondering if a bookshelf is sufficient for my room size (17x17 with one side fully open). Any idea?

    For now, I have not committed to anything yet so my options are open.

    Any comments on the equipment list above? Any other suggestions on how to spend $4k?

  8. #8
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Hey wchek,

    Welcome to the forum. I respect the way you're trying to do it right the first time. I wish I would have done that and saved myself the time, frustration, money, etc.

    In a room that size I would think that even with a sub the Concertinos will have a hard time filling in all the space. Maybe give some consideration to picking up some used floorstanders. Since you like the SF sound maybe the Grand Pianos. A use pair can usually be picked for 2K which might stain the budget but ultimately be more satisfying.

    Nothing wrong with starting out with a receiver. Just make sure whichever model you use has "pre-outs" so that an external amp can be added later should you choose. At this level most speakers prefer high current which a receivers amp section rarely provides.

    Good luck and have fun.

  9. #9
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    Hey wchek,

    Welcome to the forum. I respect the way you're trying to do it right the first time. I wish I would have done that and saved myself the time, frustration, money, etc.

    In a room that size I would think that even with a sub the Concertinos will have a hard time filling in all the space. Maybe give some consideration to picking up some used floorstanders. Since you like the SF sound maybe the Grand Pianos. A use pair can usually be picked for 2K which might stain the budget but ultimately be more satisfying.

    Nothing wrong with starting out with a receiver. Just make sure whichever model you use has "pre-outs" so that an external amp can be added later should you choose. At this level most speakers prefer high current which a receivers amp section rarely provides.

    Good luck and have fun.
    Agreed.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    Hey wchek,

    Welcome to the forum. I respect the way you're trying to do it right the first time. I wish I would have done that and saved myself the time, frustration, money, etc.

    In a room that size I would think that even with a sub the Concertinos will have a hard time filling in all the space. Maybe give some consideration to picking up some used floorstanders. Since you like the SF sound maybe the Grand Pianos. A use pair can usually be picked for 2K which might stain the budget but ultimately be more satisfying.

    Nothing wrong with starting out with a receiver. Just make sure whichever model you use has "pre-outs" so that an external amp can be added later should you choose. At this level most speakers prefer high current which a receivers amp section rarely provides.

    Good luck and have fun.

    Thanks for your comments, Bobsticks!

    I have been trying to search for a used pair of Grand Piano or Concerto but seems people hardly sell their SF

    I forgot to mention that i'm living in an apartment so i will be playing low/mid volume most of the time. If really floorstanders are needed, is MA RS8 a good choice?

    I couldn't find any reviews on Concertino vs RS8 comparison which is kinda expected because how do you compare a sedan with a 4WD? If there is any please let me know!

    Another question, regardless of the room size, which would produce better stereo music? RS8 or Concertino/VX-10 combination?

  11. #11
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wchek
    Thanks for your comments, Bobsticks!

    I have been trying to search for a used pair of Grand Piano or Concerto but seems people hardly sell their SF

    I forgot to mention that i'm living in an apartment so i will be playing low/mid volume most of the time. If really floorstanders are needed, is MA RS8 a good choice?

    I couldn't find any reviews on Concertino vs RS8 comparison which is kinda expected because how do you compare a sedan with a 4WD? If there is any please let me know!

    Another question, regardless of the room size, which would produce better stereo music? RS8 or Concertino/VX-10 combination?

    the RS series is really good for their price, however, I heard the GS series too (Monitor audio's top line), they really blew away the RS ones though, maybe you should take a look at them too, and the price is reasonable
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  12. #12
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wchek
    Thanks for your comments, Bobsticks!

    I have been trying to search for a used pair of Grand Piano or Concerto but seems people hardly sell their SF

    I forgot to mention that i'm living in an apartment so i will be playing low/mid volume most of the time. If really floorstanders are needed, is MA RS8 a good choice?

    I couldn't find any reviews on Concertino vs RS8 comparison which is kinda expected because how do you compare a sedan with a 4WD? If there is any please let me know!

    Another question, regardless of the room size, which would produce better stereo music? RS8 or Concertino/VX-10 combination?
    Well, it's not always a matter of overall volume but what will smoothly cover the full range of frequencies. Floortanders generally make integration easier but many still use a sub with them for the last octave (i do). Some of that is going to depend on the styles and variety of music you listen to. Another factor will be your willingness to play around with placement and the crossover factor.

    As for "better", blackraven said it all. It's what sounds best to you. Both SF and MA are respected manufacturers but it's a bit like comparing apples to oranges. The SFs will be more forgiving (I've only heard the GPs but I imagine that the same sonic characteristics will be shared throughout the whole line) and "warmer". Hard-core audiophiles will argue that "warmer" means inaccurate and they may be correct. On the the other hand, those of us that prefer to listen to broad catalogues of music...and not listen to gear...don't mind a little warmth.

    Keep us informed

  13. #13
    Forum Regular Jack in Wilmington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wchek
    Thanks for your comments, Bobsticks!

    I have been trying to search for a used pair of Grand Piano or Concerto but seems people hardly sell their SF

    I forgot to mention that i'm living in an apartment so i will be playing low/mid volume most of the time. If really floorstanders are needed, is MA RS8 a good choice?

    I couldn't find any reviews on Concertino vs RS8 comparison which is kinda expected because how do you compare a sedan with a 4WD? If there is any please let me know!

    Another question, regardless of the room size, which would produce better stereo music? RS8 or Concertino/VX-10 combination?
    Try Audiogon. They have a pair of Grand Pianos on there for $1850 in walnut. I think I also saw a pair of Concertos

  14. #14
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Well, it's not always a matter of overall volume but what will smoothly cover the full range of frequencies. Floortanders generally make integration easier but many still use a sub with them for the last octave (i do). Some of that is going to depend on the styles and variety of music you listen to. Another factor will be your willingness to play around with placement and the crossover factor
    .

    With your MLs, whereabout you have the crossover set?

  15. #15
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    Thank you for all your comments!

    I have read reviews that says what a bookshelf speaker gives up in bass, it makes up in sound imaging, providing better sound stage. Bigger speaker can get a bit "mushy" in terms of positioning the sound in the field. Smaller speakers also tend to be more neutral in terms of fidelity to the original sound, unlike floorstanding speakers which would color the sound to some degree.

    What do you think?

  16. #16
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by wchek
    Thank you for all your comments!

    I have read reviews that says what a bookshelf speaker gives up in bass, it makes up in sound imaging, providing better sound stage. Bigger speaker can get a bit "mushy" in terms of positioning the sound in the field. Smaller speakers also tend to be more neutral in terms of fidelity to the original sound, unlike floorstanding speakers which would color the sound to some degree.

    What do you think?
    Well I would not always trust reviews since most of them work for magazines that take a LOT of advertising dollars from the makers who want their information to get to the eyes of readers.

    Soundstage and imaging is the one thing you cannot determine if it is being done correctly -- a big stage for example may sound better but may be less accurate -- too small to one person may be accurate to another person. You want a system that can differentiate the recordings so that the stage and imaging are recording dependent and not a signature stamped on by the speakers -- and I would argue that many speakers offer up this kind of stage than producing the recording of the imaging and staging.

    Bass is critically important to overall sound and adding subwoofers in my experience is a poor way to get it. They are geared for home theater feeling effects and overall boom and not for music - yes there is disagreement on this and that's fine - everyone is entitled to their view. So in general I would far prefer a floorstander over a standmount because I don't want a speaker that compresses early, has generally poor bass, limited dynamics, and still takes up the same floorspace as a floorstander.

    The advantage of the typical good two way (and I find that there are few of these) is that it is easier to match two drivers to get an integrated "as one" sound than it is to match three drivers or more. There are 2 way standmounts that will offer the ideal of the two way standmount and still offer prodigious bass depth of big floorstanders, and most of the dynamics of large horns - but they are not inexpensive, not pretty, and not easy to find.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by wchek
    Thank you for all your comments!

    I have read reviews that says what a bookshelf speaker gives up in bass, it makes up in sound imaging, providing better sound stage. Bigger speaker can get a bit "mushy" in terms of positioning the sound in the field. Smaller speakers also tend to be more neutral in terms of fidelity to the original sound, unlike floorstanding speakers which would color the sound to some degree.

    What do you think?
    Well I use Jm Labs Cobalt 816s floorstanders in the front and 806s standmounts in the rear.The 806 is basically the top third of the 816 and other than bass extension the two sound
    very similar as i used the 806 as mains before getting the 816.

    bill
    Speakers-Jm Labs
    Disc player-Sim Audio Moon Calypso
    Pre-amp-Sim Audio P-5.3 SE
    dac= sim audio moon 300d

    Amp-Sim Audio Moon I-3
    Display-Toshiba CRT
    Wires and Cables-Kimber,Straight Wire, ixos, Gutwire and shunyata research
    Sacd-Cambridge Audio
    Bluray--Sony and Cambridge Audio
    Remote-- Harmony 1100

    Power-- Monster

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman1999
    Well I use Jm Labs Cobalt 816s floorstanders in the front and 806s standmounts in the rear.The 806 is basically the top third of the 816 and other than bass extension the two sound
    very similar as i used the 806 as mains before getting the 816.

    bill
    What is your room size?

  19. #19
    golden ear
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    having owned the sonus faber concertino, MA GS10, and the vienna acoustics haydn, i should say that the VA haydns sounds best...but this is just for me. try and audition the vienna acoustics bach or mozart models.

  20. #20
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    I have recently discovered that my personal preference tends to lean more towards floorstanders for 2-channel music playback and bookshelf for HT purposes.

  21. #21
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    I like the floorstand speakers. i bought some last year form Best Buy and have never regretted the purchase.

  22. #22
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    It seems floorstander gain more votes here than bookshelf

    So what would you guys recommend for a 5.1 system on a $4k budget? 50% music 50% movies.

  23. #23
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wchek
    It seems floorstander gain more votes here than bookshelf

    So what would you guys recommend for a 5.1 system on a $4k budget? 50% music 50% movies.
    Is the 4K just for the speakers or for all that is needed for a 5.1 system...I would recommend doing a hybrid setup in order to accommodate HT and 2-channel needs, in which case yo would want a nice power amp to drive your mains, a receiver for 5.1 mode and a nice balance overall, but I would invest most of that into your mains, then a center, then a sub and finally the surrounds.

  24. #24
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
    .

    With your MLs, whereabout you have the crossover set?
    About 65k.

    $4k is a difficult figure if that is th ebudget for the entire project if only because it puts one so close to an eschelon on speakers that is a little higher than average. Meaning, once you get done purchasing 5speaks and a sub there is very little left over for proper amplification and source.

    If I had 4k and a fondness for Sonus Faber I think I would start off with the Grands and some solid two-channel amplification which could later be used off the pre-outs of a pre/pro or receiver. Just an IMO moment...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wchek
    What is your room size?
    Sorry man,my room is about 12x20.

    bill
    Speakers-Jm Labs
    Disc player-Sim Audio Moon Calypso
    Pre-amp-Sim Audio P-5.3 SE
    dac= sim audio moon 300d

    Amp-Sim Audio Moon I-3
    Display-Toshiba CRT
    Wires and Cables-Kimber,Straight Wire, ixos, Gutwire and shunyata research
    Sacd-Cambridge Audio
    Bluray--Sony and Cambridge Audio
    Remote-- Harmony 1100

    Power-- Monster

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