best bookshelf speakers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mash

Yes, Adam- Mackie makes pro gear.

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I'm just surprised - every single thing I've ever heard out of a Mackie has sounded just awful. But I've not heard their smaller monitors - just stuff I've heard at shows. And I generally think that sound at shows is pretty awful - but Mackie's have always sounded thin like a dentist drill and harsh like a kick in the teeth.

We went to our one-and-only indoor 'rock' concert c1976. BS&T. I took an SPL meter along. The EQUIPMENT HUM was 80 dB. Ever listen to music with your ears covered? They damn near exceeded the max level reading capability of my SPL meter. You never know how much smarts are posessed by the people who set up sound reiforcement speakers.

The Mackie Studio Monitors are very different products compared to the sound reiforcement products which are designed for abuse. The speaker servo feedback feature in the Mackie studio monitors just about forces accurate playback. Check out the schematic on pg 18 of the HR824mk2 OM (owner'smanual).

http://www.mackie.com/products/hrmk2series/design.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mash

We went to our one-and-only indoor 'rock' concert c1976. BS&T. I took an SPL meter along. The EQUIPMENT HUM was 80 dB. Ever listen to music with your ears covered? They damn near exceeded the max level reading capability of my SPL meter. You never know how much smarts are posessed by the people who set up sound reiforcement speakers.

The Mackie Studio Monitors are very different products compared to the sound reiforcement products which are designed for abuse. The speaker servo feedback feature in the Mackie studio monitors just about forces accurate playback. Check out the schematic on pg 18 of the HR824mk2 OM (owner'smanual).

http://www.mackie.com/products/hrmk2series/design.html

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The Mackie HR825mk2's are very attractive on all accounts. However I can't seem to find the reference to "servo feedback"; is the a more specific link you can send?

But even the specs would not "fit":

HR824MK2_Specs[1].pdf:
Your file of 193.9 KB bytes exceeds the forum's limit of 19.5 KB for this filetype.

SOOOOO.............

1. Go To:

http://www.mackie.com/products/hrmk2series/design.html

2. On right side "Downloads" tabs, Select "Owners Manual: 824mk2"

3. Download Adobe file HR824MK2_OM[1].pdf & Open it. This is a file you cannot edit....

4, Go to Page 18, which shows the schematic "HR824mk2 Block Diagram"

5. Setting 100% magnification is suggested

6. Look at Lower right corner of schematic (just below the woofer)

7. Checkout the "Bass Control Servo Loop" circuit.
_____________________________________
=================================
8. Now Go To:

http://www.mackie.com/products/hrmk2series/design.html

9. On right side "Downloads" tabs, Select "Spec Sheet: 824mk2"
_____________________________________
From the spec sheet HR824mk2_specs[1].pdf

Low-frequency power amplifier
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Rated Power (at 1 kHz with 1% THD):150 watts
Rated Load Impedance: 4 ohms
Burst Power Output: 350 watts
Rated THD (1W to –1 dB of rated power): 0.1 %
Slew Rate: 35V/μS
Distortion (THD, SMPTE IMD, DIM 100): < 0.035%
Signal-to-Noise (20Hz-20kHz, unweighted, referenced to 150W into 4 ohm): > 102 dB
Cooling: Convection

===> Design: Class AB, Parametric Servo Feedback

The crossover is 1900 Hz.

I would suggest the Tekton OB4.5 as the best $550 you could spend on a bookshelf speaker. The only problem is that it will make you want to upgrade your amp.




http://www.tektondesign.com/ModelOB45.htm

Wherefrom I copied this from a Nov 2009 review (EnjoytheMusic.com) quoted by Tekton:

[And this sort of review would give me a LOT of pause....]

"Fine Tuning
In the review of the OB4.5 there was an SPL chart of the monitors pointed straight ahead along with an overlay of the response with the monitors aimed directly at each shoulder. For the chart presented here I took measurements from 200 Hz down with the subwoofers active and used the line representing the monitors aimed toward me. When I took my first set of measurements with the subs crossed over at about 80 Hz and turned up to about 2/3 full volume as I had tuned by ear, I was disappointed in the measured results. Now, granted, these are crude in-room measurements taken from the listening position and the Radio Shack analog SPL meter is known to be less accurate at the frequency extremes, but I really expected to see a more convincing graph."

The graph referenced above did look like crap but I am bothered by the following:

"...these are crude in-room measurements taken from the listening position and the Radio Shack analog SPL meter is known to be less accurate at the frequency extremes, ..."

NO, the RS analog SPL meter is A-weighted **only**, i.e. sensitive to 500Hz to 10000Hz (?)

NO, the reviewer should have used C-weighting.

YES, One CAN correct the RS analog SPL meter readings to C-weighting, but why bother?

I have an RS Digital SPL meter which offers both A-weighting and C-weighting. At the least this reviewer SHOULD be using the RS digital SPL meter set to C-weighting. I worry about the results produced by people who perform their jobs with inappropriate or obsolete equipment...................

I thought about this parallel-cone configuration years ago but I could not get enthusiastic about it. And the Dahlquist was an open-baffle cone speaker that generated a lot of interest years ago but I think it died. My friend and I listened to the Dahlquist at his house. I went for Magneplanars and I never looked back. He went for double KLH-9's, and later, Martin-Logan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mash

But even the specs would not "fit":

HR824MK2_Specs[1].pdf:
Your file of 193.9 KB bytes exceeds the forum's limit of 19.5 KB for this filetype.

SOOOOO.............

1. Go To:

http://www.mackie.com/products/hrmk2series/design.html

2. On right side "Downloads" tabs, Select "Owners Manual: 824mk2"

3. Download Adobe file HR824MK2_OM[1].pdf & Open it. This is a file you cannot edit....

4, Go to Page 18, which shows the schematic "HR824mk2 Block Diagram"

5. Setting 100% magnification is suggested

6. Look at Lower right corner of schematic (just below the woofer)

7. Checkout the "Bass Control Servo Loop" circuit.
_____________________________________
=================================
8. Now Go To:

http://www.mackie.com/products/hrmk2series/design.html

9. On right side "Downloads" tabs, Select "Spec Sheet: 824mk2"
_____________________________________
From the spec sheet HR824mk2_specs[1].pdf

Low-frequency power amplifier
_____________________________________
Rated Power (at 1 kHz with 1% THD):150 watts
Rated Load Impedance: 4 ohms
Burst Power Output: 350 watts
Rated THD (1W to –1 dB of rated power): 0.1 %
Slew Rate: 35V/μS
Distortion (THD, SMPTE IMD, DIM 100): < 0.035%
Signal-to-Noise (20Hz-20kHz, unweighted, referenced to 150W into 4 ohm): > 102 dB
Cooling: Convection

===> Design: Class AB, Parametric Servo Feedback

The crossover is 1900 Hz.

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Yes, I see that now. :o That seems like it ought to be an excellent feature in addition to everything else. Like I said, those Mackies are very enticing speakers and very reasonably priced considering the built-amplification.

In priniciple at the very least, self-powered speakers with their custom crossovers, amps, and other features like the servo control in this case, really ought to be far more popular than they are with audiophiles.

It is nice to see that Mackie places a large emphasis on pair matching.

If people are interested in the home theater aspect of this on the budget and quite good - then perhaps also consider M&K loudspeakers. I remember hearing a very inexpensive set back in the early 1990s and was roundly impressed - but back then space warranted only a floorstander. The dealer at the time was good friends with Georg Lucas and noted that M&K was George's speaker of choice. Apparently, despite the B&W advertising, M&K is STILL George's speaker of choice.

I am certainly going to consider them when I start my home theater system. Apparently M&K invented the subwoofer. So I should think they make some good ones.

Remember that Pro speakers sometimes get a raw deal because of their looks. PMC is a pro-speaker maker but decided "hey if we put them in a nicer looking cabinet we can sell to the public too" and it has worked well for them.

Since I could give a rat's ass about the look and I'm generally a cheap bastard I have no problem with looking into speakers that are used to make the movie sound tracks on.

Incidentally M&K subs have been put up against audiophile brand subwoofers in a shootout and the M&K beat them all with only one other Sub making the cut. And the M&K is less money by quite a bit in the North American market.

Now some studio monitors don't work as well for home listening - they can be a little tiresome but that is still speaker dependent. M&K is on my short list for home theater whenever I finally bother getting around to doing it. Have a read of their website http://www.mksoundsystem.com/mk750.htm

I thought M&K created the first satellite and subwoofer system and Janis created the first subwoofer.

I don't know. M&K is claiming they invented both. Bottom right of this page http://www.mksoundsystem.com/history.htm

Sorry I posted the home series - M&K's active pro series is here http://www.mksoundsystem.com/propages/mkprof_2401p.htm

May I recommend the Wharfedale Diamond 10 series? I've been hugely impressed with them so far... downright better than everything else in it's price range...

http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/Products...lt.aspx#detail

and Montior audio Silver series, too...

keep them spinning,
Bert.

Rick Baker of "Enjoy The Music" made these final comments regarding the Tekton OB4.5 in his August 2009 review:

"The OB4.5 gives you an incredible transparant and focused view into the recording venue that opens the door to the upper level of High End audio at an entry level price."

In his latest review of the OB4.5 ( January 2010 ) he states the following:

"But it is by far the best full range speaker I've heard under $2000. If I close my eyes, it is not difficult to imagine I am listening to a $20,000 pair of speakers. It is that good."