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  1. #1
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    b&w's or paradigm ?

    so im in the hunt for new speakers and ive narrowed it down to two so far b&w 683's or paradigm monitor 11. the 683s retail for about $1800 canadian but the local speaker shop said they could get me a smoking deal on the demos, but on the other hand i can order brand new paradigm monitor 11's for $1600 so im just asking for peoples input on what is the better speaker, better built speaker, better trusted company and better warraties or personal experiences to help me choose the right speaker thanx

  2. #2
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Have you listened to them?

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    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    Have you listened to them?
    ...and what kind of music will you be listening to and what associated equipment will be used?
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

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    i havent listened to the b&w's yet because i havent had the time and i havent listened to the monitor 11's i have listened to monitor 9s because that was all they had and i mostly listen to old rock and stuff like that and its gonna kill me to say this but also rap which is why i want a speaker to have alot of bass and i was looking at the specs and the monitor 11's can go a few hertz lower than the b&w's

  5. #5
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    You can always find equipment with better specs. You still gotta hear it. You are making a big investment. I say get your money's worth in the shop's time auditioning the speakers. And take some rap CDs with you.

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    yeah i could but this stuff is in my price range and yeah i do gotta hear it cause it only matters to me in the end and my ear. yeah i am spending alot of money and its gonna be alot more considering i just found out i have to pay rent ( im living at home still cause im only 18 ) and yeah i also read that u have to listen to them for like 20 minutes because ur ears sound could change in 5 minutes so they might sound good but then u could get home and hate the sound and yeah i want a speaker that when i turn it up loud on rap sounds the bass is gonna shake the house but have crisp highs and clear mids when im listening to something like scorpions- still loving you. and my system is still in the process of being built up right now i only have energy c-500 speakers which im in the process of selling and a denon pma 2000r amp, down the road im gonna buy a cd player possibly before the speakers

  7. #7
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I'd suggest trying to audition the speakers with the level of equipment you could see yourself having during the time you have the speakers, even if you don't have that equipment now. I once sat in a home-theater store and listened to a McIntosh/B&W digital setup for probably over a half-hour without a salesman interrupting. It was the best system I'd ever heard at the time, so I wanted to really think about what I was hearing.

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    yeah the monitor 9s were hooked up to some nad equiptment which i might get in the future but im also swaying towards rotel. and at the sound hounds they would probably hook it up to something rotel or mcintosh im not to sure but yeah i want to listen to it on equiptment that i might buy in the future

  9. #9
    RGA
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    This is the dealer I go to the most. Soundhounds is a good group of guys. Now slow the hell down.

    There is no reason to be looking at two brands because you have read some reviews or because they look cool. Take stock of all the music you like to listen to. Put together a system budget and get them to let you audition a full system. Determine if you like the system for everything it does. Try and talk to Terry - he is the store owner (he's an older fellow with a huge beard. He is there most of the time. Tell him you were on the forums and talked to RGA (Richard Austen) and that you want a good system.

    Ask his advice because frankly I would put more stock into him than any magazine review. If you go in to buy they will sell because most people never bother to ask advice.

    No one here can tell you what you'll like more between those two but you. But they have other speakers that I like more for two channel audio. In fact I like all the other speakers they carry more than Paradigm and B&W. they carry Dynaudio, Harbeth, Audio Note, Magnepan, Quad, Meridian, Sonus Faber.

    Have a budget and spend time there. Get to know them, ask for an audition time where they can give you half a day to try gear. You are prepared to spend money then they should be prepared to give you some time. Tell Terry or Paul or Don etc what you like to listen to.

    Ask to listen to tube amps and stuff you can't afford. It's about building the education as to what is out there and what is available for your budget. Just because something is half off doesn't mean it's something you'll be happy with.

    The key thing is NOT to get brand enamored. The label on the front of the boxes mean zilch. Some of the ugliest things they sell sound way better than the sexiest looking things they sell.

    Soundhounds is one of the best dealers you will ever find because they carry so much stuff of completely different designs. Ask them to audition some of their tube amplifier based systems.

    Cheers,

    PS - there is nothing wrong with B&W or Paradigm - both of them and all the other companies they sell are reputable and carry good warranties. So that should not be an issue. Also don't be afraid of their used section - they often carry some really nice stuff back there.

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    yeah i went into sound hounds like a month ago and i talked a fair bit with them, i schooled my dad there, im 18 hes 45 :P im quite proud of that :P. yeah i am trying to look around to find a good system but i think i should go to sound hounds and im only interested in 2 channel audio. and thank you RGA i will try to talk to terry and see if he can help me build a system for my buget, and yeah he probably has some really good advice.

    yeah i really like bower and wilkins but i also like dynaudio and yeah i might do that soon just go in and ask if i can spend a day or two there finding something i like and suites my music taste and my buget, and i try and learn as much as i can like what the speaker company has as a goal as a company, where the make there products, how much research and testing they put into them.

    and yeah something could be half off but doesnt mean im gonna like it, and yeah that is true, and yeah the last time i went in there they had soo much stuff i think i might sell my current system now and save up and build up a better one, cause i have a pretty good amp now and alright speakers but i want to get something good. like i found a denon pma2000r in used vic i got it for $575 which is not bad, and my energy c-500 speakers i got for $575 to i think so i have spent over a grand plus speaker wire which is dayton its good enough for now.

    when i go look to buy a product i want a store like say sound hounds which knows what there doing, have lots of experience, are gonna try and help u find something that u want not something that they are just trying to sell, and are VERY helpful and curtious which is really important to me cause i know there not just trying to rip me off and sell me something expensive that im not gonna like. but i have to say thanx for all the help Richard Austen u helped me alot and maybe when im in soundhounds trying to find my system i might see u its probably gonna be a month or more but cheers and thanx for helping a young fella like me

  11. #11
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    If you're looking at playing loud hip-hop then what you really want is a speaker with multiple bass drivers or a very big bass driver. I would look at Polk Audio's floorstanding speakers, they are probably a better match for what you are looking for. www.polkaudio.com

  12. #12
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    yeah i want to play alot ot bass but i also want a speaker that if i listen to old school rock like sabbath and scorpions its gonna sound just as good but im deffinetly going into sound hounds in the next few days just to check out what they got

  13. #13
    RGA
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    Soundhounds doesn't need to rip people off because they sell everything. Well not everything but they carry many different kinds of designs so if you like one design over another they sell it. That way they can let you like whatever you like and they'll probably make a sale. If you think about it, that is far easier for a salesman because they don't need to hard sell you on anything. I went to a high end store in Vancouver and they tried to bash you over the head with B&W because they only carried three speaker lines so they had to slag everything else and hype B&W.

    B&W makes some good speakers but I would very much caution you on the marketing. This is the biggest "high end" speaker manufacturer. They put a lot of money into the marketing, full colour glossy adverts, a lot of "sales-pitch" stuff like discussing their diamond tweeters and kevlar woofers and all sorts of things while plenty of other makers use boring old silk domes and paper woofers and square boxes. Soundhounds carries both Audio Note and Harbeth and they're as ugly as a bucket of rocks. Sit long and hard and listen to either one of those against the B&W's and you will learn very quickly that all the marketing in the world can't save them when the play button is pushed or the needle drops. If you're building a home theater and you need something that looks fantastic B&W is first rate - if it's about two channel music and you don't care what the box looks like then skip them.

    Paradigm is made in Canada, B&W is made in China and England (depends on the models). If the sound is close I would go with Paradigm if this sort of things matters to you - though B&W is made in China they may treat their workers well - we should not jump to any conclusions.

    Harbeth is made in England, Audio Note is made in England and/or Denmark and/or Canada and/or Japan and/or Russia depending on the model (some are completely built in Denmark while the SEAS drivers are all made in Denmark (I know they are trying to move to local building facilities to stop the wasted air travel of shipping and also to get rid of the boxes which wastes carboard, Sonus Faber is Italian and I'm pretty sure they're all built there, Magnepan is made in the US, Quad is made in China.

    You don't need to worry about bass. Soundhounds carries Harbeth and Audio Note and both produce prodegious bass despite being standmount designs. Both are well out of your price range however. Sonus Faber may have something - the "Toy" sounded pretty nice but I can't remember how much it goes for. I'll probably head up in a couple of weeks because I need a power amp to go with my Rotel preamp. But it's low priority at the moment.

  14. #14
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    Lightbulb Choose the one that sounds best to your ears

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanianmckinnon
    so im in the hunt for new speakers and ive narrowed it down to two so far b&w 683's or paradigm monitor 11. the 683s retail for about $1800 canadian but the local speaker shop said they could get me a smoking deal on the demos, but on the other hand i can order brand new paradigm monitor 11's for $1600 so im just asking for peoples input on what is the better speaker, better built speaker, better trusted company and better warraties or personal experiences to help me choose the right speaker thanx
    For the amount of money you want to spend, I would caution you to avoid esoteric brands recommended in this thread as they lack the economies of scale required to put out a quality product at this price point.Stick to brands such as Paradigm, Bowers&Wilkins(B&W) and PSB. I am not familiar with the Paradigm and PSB product as neither has a large support network in the Europe. But that should not be a problem for you as you are based in Canada. B&W is a well-regarded company worldwide and puts out quality products at each price point theey also have a very good dealer/support network. You cannot go wrong with either, Of the two, choose the one that sounds best to your ears. then relax and enjoy some good music.
    It's a listening test, you do not need to see it to listen to it!

  15. #15
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    There is some great advice comin at ya Ryan. I would only add that IMO, take your amp in if it's not too much of a bother. Pre book a listening room with the shop and tell them your plan. They will set up a spot for your amp and have the speakers ready to plug in. Take also your fave CDs/LPs and clear a couple of hours. Spend half of your time with the 'digms and half with the B&W.

    RGA is correct in advising you to listen to better gear while you're in there, HOWEVER, I don't feel that the time is right to do this. What may end up happening is you will add more confusion to the pot. Not only that, but if you aren't budgeted for a new amp, you will go home feeling dissapointed having to hear the brand new Paradigm speakers you just bought, from a lesser amp. Your amp!!

    Not a good scene. Focus on the speakers for now. If you can't take your amp in, I suggest using a similar unit at the shop. After you have made your purchase and are all set up, then take some time out of your schedule to listen and audition different combos of gear for future upgrades.

    Good luck man!

    BTW, don't get too obsessed about a few extra Hz. Hip hop recordings have such bloated, obnoxious bass it's almost impossible for ANY speaker not to respond. I think you hit it on the head with your need for something that can do hip hop bass, and then rock bass. For this alot of listening will be required.

  16. #16
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    everybody this is some great advice. i think i know what im gonna do now, im gonna go into sound hounds and look around at stuff at my price range, discuss with the guys there what my plan is and what my budget it and set up a time in the future when i have the money and set up a time where i can go in there and listen to them for a while. i am also going to ask if i can bring in my amp as it is gonna be with me for a while until i have the money and decide to upgrade. when i actually go into sound hounds im gonna actually spend about a hour or two in there looking around and talking with them about what would suite my budget for the future. the only down side about the paradigms is i would have to order them in and i wouldnt be able to listen to them before i would buy them which is a big downside for me.

    when im down at sound hounds im also gonna browse around at cd players which i am hoping to purchase in the near future and maybe at the same time as im getting the speakers. i really like bower and wilkins but im also gonna check out dynaudio and see what there prices are and stuff like that. my dad got me hooked on this and now its a hobby/ passion for me. but again thanx everybody for the great advice and i hope to keep discussing stuff for a while.

  17. #17
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    For the amount of money you want to spend, I would caution you to avoid esoteric brands recommended in this thread as they lack the economies of scale required to put out a quality product at this price point.Stick to brands such as Paradigm, Bowers&Wilkins(B&W) and PSB. I am not familiar with the Paradigm and PSB product as neither has a large support network in the Europe. But that should not be a problem for you as you are based in Canada. B&W is a well-regarded company worldwide and puts out quality products at each price point theey also have a very good dealer/support network. You cannot go wrong with either, Of the two, choose the one that sounds best to your ears. then relax and enjoy some good music.
    Paradigm is very big in Canada since they're made in Canada. He should have no trouble with servicing - in fact it would probably be easier than any import brand because a distributor doesn't necessarily fix the product and it may have to be shipped back to Europe/China wherever the import is made. I am not sure I would consider brands that have been in business for 30+ years to be esoteric because if they had huge problems with after service they would have went out of business by now. Although you may also be unaware that Soundhounds is also a full out repair facility and can build rebuild every speaker out there including electrostats and Magnepans etc. As the parts connection folks at CES noted they have speakers selling as kits for $300 that the big manufacturers have disguised and selling for $3k. Economies of scale on the one hand versus hundreds of thousands of dollars in marketing which cancels that advantage on the other.

    The easy way for you to crosscheck is to pull two given speakers apart look at the parts inside and then look at the retail price. If both speakers retail at $1k there is certainly no factual evidence to support the notion that a big corporation is using superior parts. Bigger corproations that heavily advertise actually have a human being with a paid yearly salary heading up a marketing department with an actual space and hiring professional website designers (who also get paid) and publishing departments to create manuals. All of these things have a "per unit" cost attached to the widget. And then in multiple languages. It is thus very likely that a smaller brand may have $250 in parts for that $1k retail speaker while the big corp only has about a $100. The smaller maker has a lower mark-up because he has a lower cost attached to the per unit cost of the product.

    The esoteric brands usually keep their products in the line-up far longer than big corps and that increases the resale value of the product(especially if the price rises) - as an example I got 100% of what I paid for my last esoteric speaker, I have been offered $1k more than what I paid for my current speakers, while my B&W's only fetched about 25% of what I paid. Once the model is changed the value of the old model is seriously diminished. The other problem is that after a few model changes there is no guarantee that you will be able to get the same driver if your speaker should blow. My Wharfedales were from a pretty big household name but I can't get either the tweeter or the woofer for them anymore. But if I bought my current speakers back in 1992 the esoteric brand keeps records of the driver and the measurements to be able to send me an exact duplicate. And because the esoteric brands often outsource to the big driver manufacturers those drivers tend not to go anywhere. Most all loudspeakers will last for 5-10 years without problems so big or small none of this is really of any importance but it's outside the warranty period where being able to get the same woofer and tweeters and other parts play a factor. IMO You have a better chance to get the same parts if the same loudspeaker is still being sold in 10 years and not when the model has been changed 3 times in that span.

    Though I do agree with you that if there is a "serious" problem you will probably get a "replacement" product faster than the esoteric brands because dealers likely have several of them in their storerooms while the esoteric may have to be built and shipped to you. Although there was a big thread on PSB where a fellow had his cabinet coming apart. PSB ignored his phone calls and e-mails until he posted on audioasylum and complained and asked for help. Months and months later after they tried not to do anything about it they finall did. Dealing with the esoterics you can e-mail the guy at the top directly and he will get back to you and actually do something about it. It doesn't go to lackey.

    PSB is a huge speaker company and this is an example http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...B+coming+apart

    That is the kind of thing you deal with with big speaker companies - lots of people involved lots of e-mails phon calls, people are away someone could drop the ball intentional or not the above is what happens when dealing with big corporations. All I can say is that audioasylum post illustrates what big companies are all about. And this is a speaker that is under warranty - they don't even keep the parts that long. God help you when it's out of warranty!

    I prefer sending an e-mail to the top guy and having a response within 2 days. I also like that the esoteric companies will ignore the warranty time and even if the product is out of warranty for several YEARS they will still fix some problems free of charge.

    Having said all of that I regret selling my little B&Ws because they were really quite good at the price. In fact when I traded them in - it only took an hour before another customer was in Soundhounds and bought them - I met the guy who bought them. But speakers are not like car dealers - cars break down and if you have a problem with certain kinds of cars that require certain parts like some Volvos and you're in a small town you may opt to buy a Toyota since they're everywhere, but loudspeakers? I don't see it.
    Last edited by RGA; 06-30-2010 at 10:01 AM.

  18. #18
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    Smile Whoa, RGA, where do you expect me start?

    Whoa RGA! Where do you expect me to start answering your meandering post? It's too long and unfocused, Could you condense your post into a few bullet points with examples to support each point , thanks
    It's a listening test, you do not need to see it to listen to it!

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    yeah i kinda get the point but its kinda scattered everywhere.I get that not all speaker companies have good customer service and that some have the worst customer service ever, but in the end i have to still go down to sound hounds and listen to the 683's and see if they are what i want if not i will listen to a few others and see what i might like and im gonna spend as much time as i can to find the speaker for me cause after i buy this speaker im not gonna upgrade them for a while. the only problem i have with the paradigms is that they dont have any in stock ( atlas audio ) and thats a big downside for me because what if i end up spending $1600 dollars and i end up not liking them its gonna suck cause i work soo hard for my money. also one thing my dad also made me think about is what brand will be easier to sell and get my money back from down the road if i decide to sell them, and not get my money back but get the most back, i wanna say paradigm because bower and wilkins is a high end brand and im not sure if lots of people know about them but i think most people know about paradigm, another speaker i was just looking at that bower and wilkins has and sound hounds has is the cm9, i might check that out because the 683 and the cm9 pretty much have the same specs the only difference really is that the frequency response is a fair bit different which i dont know what that does to the sound or anything but u never know. so im gonna listen to both speakers depending on how much the cm9 costs if its in my price range im gonna listen to it if not then there is no point.
    Last edited by ryanianmckinnon; 07-01-2010 at 12:43 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanianmckinnon
    yeah i kinda get the point but its kinda scattered everywhere.I get that not all speaker companies have good customer service and that some have the worst customer service ever, but in the end i have to still go down to sound hounds and listen to the 683's and see if they are what i want if not i will listen to a few others and see what i might like and im gonna spend as much time as i can to find the speaker for me cause after i buy this speaker im not gonna upgrade them for a while. the only problem i have with the paradigms is that they dont have any in stock ( atlas audio ) and thats a big downside for me because what if i end up spending $1600 dollars and i end up not liking them its gonna suck cause i work soo hard for my money. also one thing my dad also made me think about is what brand will be easier to sell and get my money back from down the road if i decide to sell them, and not get my money back but get the most back, i wanna say paradigm because bower and wilkins is a high end brand and im not sure if lots of people know about them but i think most people know about paradigm, another speaker i was just looking at that bower and wilkins has and sound hounds has is the cm9, i might check that out because the 683 and the cm9 pretty much have the same specs the only difference really is that the frequency response is a fair bit different which i dont know what that does to the sound or anything but u never know. so im gonna listen to both speakers depending on how much the cm9 costs if its in my price range im gonna listen to it if not then there is no point.
    l


    You should also consider the second-hand market, as you likely to get better value for money. If you buy a popular model, you may be able to sell it for close to the original price you paid for it.
    It's a listening test, you do not need to see it to listen to it!

  21. #21
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    l


    You should also consider the second-hand market, as you likely to get better value for money. If you buy a popular model, you may be able to sell it for close to the original price you paid for it.
    Indeed. Actually audiohobby, you and RGA share the same view here as Rich is a large advocate for used speakers. Thought I would try and sprinkle some love into this thread.

    Opinions about Mission aside, I recently picked up a pair of mint 707's for a yard note. The seller was the original buyer and included the manuals, sales brochures and receipts. He paid $700 after tax in the mid 90's, when the 707 was first introduced.

    I immediately refoamed them and let me tell you, they absolutely sing. Good luck finding anything even remotely close for $100.

    Just an aside, because I know alot of people disliked the 700 series, but everything you have heard about imaging is true. Most certainly the widest stage I have ever experienced, but the depth is even more impressive.

    Where exactly do you live Ryan? Are you on the island or in Van? We can browse Kijiji and give you some opinions perhaps. 02audionoob started me out on that and I really enjoy it.

  22. #22
    RGA
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    Used speakers are fine provided they're in good shape and the model has been around long enough and you are somewhat familiar with the parts. Speakers are not rocket science and if buying used you will save a LOT of money. I recently picked up a nice little set of Tannoys for $60 at a Pawn shop because I needed to do some testing.

    1) Small makers you can talk to the owner and get things resolved.
    2) Speakers that sell for many years without model changes (and increased prices) retain their value longer and you are far more likely to get replacement parts.**
    3) Big companies that change models and don't use "known" drivers and will make it difficult to get replacement parts. Note the PSB thread where the speaker was under warranty but the model changed and PSB no longer had any replacement parts.

    They don't even keep replacement parts of the last model. He was fortunate that they finally caved in and resolved the issue but if this had been 5 years and one day then he would be out of luck becuase they had no parts - the speakers woould have to go the junk yard. Big companies are not interested in using valuable space to store back-ups. Lots of luck if you need a 10 year old part from the big guys who change models every four years because the sales have plateaud. As my Wharfedale and the PSB thread I posted noted the big name companies can't offer you parts for old product. They sinply don't care because once they got your money the relationship has ended. The smaller makers use drivers from companies in the business of making the best drivers, Scansepak, Vifa, SEAS, Dynaudio etc and you can go to them to get the drivers even if the company you bought from goes out of business.

    ** Number 2 - As an example I can sell my speakers for about a thousand dollars more than I paid for them because the same model is still selling and due to currency and other world related financial situations the model has increased in price dramatically and so to have all the used models. Indeed, I could get what I paid for my amp with ease as well. Conversely my Arcam integrated that was $1400 now can be bought for $250. That is because the model has been changed at least 3 times and so has the styling. Lots of luck if you need a board for the 14 year old Arcam.

    Buying used will save you lots of money but either get one that is still selling or uses parts that you can come by readily. If the drivers used in the speaker are from driver manufacturers that sell drivers then you can get them should they go. If however the drivers are made by the manufacturer only and the manufacturer now uses different drivers - you'll likely be out of luck - or they will charge a premium for them.

    The repair guy at Soundhounds was fixing speakers beyond repair he was taking them apart and he held up a part and said good now I have one of these. It's a part he's going to keep around should anyone come in needing a speaker repair. It was for a Tannoy loudspeaker but Tannoy doesn't make them anymore. So he's pretty good at collecting parts he knows are tough to find.

    Lastly have you considered building your own speakers - some can be surprisingly inexpensive and the cabinets are very nice - they had a space at CES in Vegas. They give you the cabinet so the hard part is done. you need toknow how to use a soldering iron. http://www.parts-express.com/wizards...AT&srchCat=769

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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Paradigm is very big in Canada since they're made in Canada. He should have no trouble with servicing - in fact it would probably be easier than any import brand because a distributor doesn't necessarily fix the product and it may have to be shipped back to Europe/China wherever the import is made. I am not sure I would consider brands that have been in business for 30+ years to be esoteric because if they had huge problems with after service they would have went out of business by now. Although you may also be unaware that Soundhounds is also a full out repair facility and can build rebuild every speaker out there including electrostats and Magnepans etc. As the parts connection folks at CES noted they have speakers selling as kits for $300 that the big manufacturers have disguised and selling for $3k. Economies of scale on the one hand versus hundreds of thousands of dollars in marketing which cancels that advantage on the other.

    The easy way for you to crosscheck is to pull two given speakers apart look at the parts inside and then look at the retail price. If both speakers retail at $1k there is certainly no factual evidence to support the notion that a big corporation is using superior parts. Bigger corproations that heavily advertise actually have a human being with a paid yearly salary heading up a marketing department with an actual space and hiring professional website designers (who also get paid) and publishing departments to create manuals. All of these things have a "per unit" cost attached to the widget. And then in multiple languages. It is thus very likely that a smaller brand may have $250 in parts for that $1k retail speaker while the big corp only has about a $100. The smaller maker has a lower mark-up because he has a lower cost attached to the per unit cost of the product.

    The esoteric brands usually keep their products in the line-up far longer than big corps and that increases the resale value of the product(especially if the price rises) - as an example I got 100% of what I paid for my last esoteric speaker, I have been offered $1k more than what I paid for my current speakers, while my B&W's only fetched about 25% of what I paid. Once the model is changed the value of the old model is seriously diminished. The other problem is that after a few model changes there is no guarantee that you will be able to get the same driver if your speaker should blow. My Wharfedales were from a pretty big household name but I can't get either the tweeter or the woofer for them anymore. But if I bought my current speakers back in 1992 the esoteric brand keeps records of the driver and the measurements to be able to send me an exact duplicate. And because the esoteric brands often outsource to the big driver manufacturers those drivers tend not to go anywhere. Most all loudspeakers will last for 5-10 years without problems so big or small none of this is really of any importance but it's outside the warranty period where being able to get the same woofer and tweeters and other parts play a factor. IMO You have a better chance to get the same parts if the same loudspeaker is still being sold in 10 years and not when the model has been changed 3 times in that span.

    Though I do agree with you that if there is a "serious" problem you will probably get a "replacement" product faster than the esoteric brands because dealers likely have several of them in their storerooms while the esoteric may have to be built and shipped to you. Although there was a big thread on PSB where a fellow had his cabinet coming apart. PSB ignored his phone calls and e-mails until he posted on audioasylum and complained and asked for help. Months and months later after they tried not to do anything about it they finall did. Dealing with the esoterics you can e-mail the guy at the top directly and he will get back to you and actually do something about it. It doesn't go to lackey.

    PSB is a huge speaker company and this is an example http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...B+coming+apart

    That is the kind of thing you deal with with big speaker companies - lots of people involved lots of e-mails phon calls, people are away someone could drop the ball intentional or not the above is what happens when dealing with big corporations. All I can say is that audioasylum post illustrates what big companies are all about. And this is a speaker that is under warranty - they don't even keep the parts that long. God help you when it's out of warranty!

    I prefer sending an e-mail to the top guy and having a response within 2 days. I also like that the esoteric companies will ignore the warranty time and even if the product is out of warranty for several YEARS they will still fix some problems free of charge.

    Having said all of that I regret selling my little B&Ws because they were really quite good at the price. In fact when I traded them in - it only took an hour before another customer was in Soundhounds and bought them - I met the guy who bought them. But speakers are not like car dealers - cars break down and if you have a problem with certain kinds of cars that require certain parts like some Volvos and you're in a small town you may opt to buy a Toyota since they're everywhere, but loudspeakers? I don't see it.
    Why are you bringing up ancient history? That was in 2004. Not only that, you generalized about "big speaker companies." Lets see, he didn't initially request repair through a dealer, who would know who to contact and could carry the ball, but contacted PSB directly on Jan. 28, but even so with all the mix-ups in PSB and UPS, he started with Stratus Bronze speakers and they ended up giving him Stratus Silvers a couple of months later (not "months and months"). It should've been done faster but all in all, they ended up well with an upgrade.

    Paradigm, PSB, and Energy usually beat most non-Canadian speakers in their price range.
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.

  24. #24
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat D
    Why are you bringing up ancient history? That was in 2004. Not only that, you generalized about "big speaker companies." Lets see, he didn't initially request repair through a dealer, who would know who to contact and could carry the ball, but contacted PSB directly on Jan. 28, but even so with all the mix-ups in PSB and UPS, he started with Stratus Bronze speakers and they ended up giving him Stratus Silvers a couple of months later (not "months and months"). It should've been done faster but all in all, they ended up well with an upgrade.

    Paradigm, PSB, and Energy usually beat most non-Canadian speakers in their price range.
    PSB resolved the issue well and if you note I said that in that thread. The point however remains that they had zero replacement parts for the speakers he purchased (and it was still under warranty). If the speaker was out of warranty he would be S.O.L. This contests the notion that buying from big companies is somehow better than smaller companies. I know others who can't get certain paradigm and B&W drivers anymore. So if you have a problem the whole thing has to be chucked in the garbage. Hardly a green solution!

    As for what beats what from whom at what prices that depends who is listening and what they have directly compared them to. Fortunately. Soundhounds carries both the big name brands and some smaller name brands and a good used section. FWIW I wish PSB had better representation out here. And Energy took a hit when A&B Sound went out of business. I have not seen them any place else. And Totem used to be in the higher end shops but they bailed and went to A&B and the High End dealers have not looked to pick them back up. I said way back then that that was a bad move going big box chain to start with.

    Personally I have never blown a speaker and assuming you're reasonably careful they should all last at least 10-15 years trouble free. By then it is entirely possible you might want to change them anyway.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    PSB resolved the issue well and if you note I said that in that thread. The point however remains that they had zero replacement parts for the speakers he purchased (and it was still under warranty). If the speaker was out of warranty he would be S.O.L. This contests the notion that buying from big companies is somehow better than smaller companies. I know others who can't get certain paradigm and B&W drivers anymore. So if you have a problem the whole thing has to be chucked in the garbage. Hardly a green solution!

    As for what beats what from whom at what prices that depends who is listening and what they have directly compared them to. Fortunately. Soundhounds carries both the big name brands and some smaller name brands and a good used section. FWIW I wish PSB had better representation out here. And Energy took a hit when A&B Sound went out of business. I have not seen them any place else. And Totem used to be in the higher end shops but they bailed and went to A&B and the High End dealers have not looked to pick them back up. I said way back then that that was a bad move going big box chain to start with.

    Personally I have never blown a speaker and assuming you're reasonably careful they should all last at least 10-15 years trouble free. By then it is entirely possible you might want to change them anyway.
    If the speakers don't have foam surrounds and they aren't abused, they should last a lot longer than that.
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.

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