• 07-16-2004, 01:14 PM
    newbsterv2
    Anyone A/B Paradigm Studio 20 against B&W 705??
    I'm in the market for a new system, preferably a bookshelf/sub combo, and have 2 sets of speakers I want to audition. The only problem is that both of the speakers mentioned above are at seperate dealers. I haven't heard the B&W's yet but heard their bigger brothers the 703's. They seemed to disappear quite well but were a little too forward in the midrange for my taste. They weren't honky or nasal they just sound well...very flat through the midrange. I listen to a lot of classical music and like the midrange just a wee bit recessed. I currently own the Paradigm Monitor 7's and while I love what they have done for $550.00/pair I paid for them I'd like better performance even if I need to spend around $2,500 for a good bookshelf and sub combo. My question is this. Do the B&W's sound less boxy to me because the tweeter isn't in the box but a sepereate enclosure? I have these cheapy Cambridge Soundworks speakers for my pc that have a great "openess" and non-boxiness to them and the only reason I can imagine that is is because theyre little tiny cubes reproducing only the high frequencies. I've heard some of Paradigm's bigger Studio brethren including the behemoth Studio 100 v3's. While they were ok to me they still sounded "confused" or "boxy" I guess is the best way to explain it. Anyways my main question was how does the Studio 20 fair againts the 705? Thanks for any info. The 20's are $800/pair compared to the price of the $1,500/pair 705's however. Am I comparing apples to oranges?
  • 07-16-2004, 08:02 PM
    Pat D
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by newbsterv2
    I'm in the market for a new system, preferably a bookshelf/sub combo, and have 2 sets of speakers I want to audition. The only problem is that both of the speakers mentioned above are at seperate dealers. I haven't heard the B&W's yet but heard their bigger brothers the 703's. They seemed to disappear quite well but were a little too forward in the midrange for my taste. They weren't honky or nasal they just sound well...very flat through the midrange. I listen to a lot of classical music and like the midrange just a wee bit recessed. I currently own the Paradigm Monitor 7's and while I love what they have done for $550.00/pair I paid for them I'd like better performance even if I need to spend around $2,500 for a good bookshelf and sub combo. My question is this. Do the B&W's sound less boxy to me because the tweeter isn't in the box but a sepereate enclosure? I have these cheapy Cambridge Soundworks speakers for my pc that have a great "openess" and non-boxiness to them and the only reason I can imagine that is is because theyre little tiny cubes reproducing only the high frequencies. I've heard some of Paradigm's bigger Studio brethren including the behemoth Studio 100 v3's. While they were ok to me they still sounded "confused" or "boxy" I guess is the best way to explain it. Anyways my main question was how does the Studio 20 fair againts the 705? Thanks for any info. The 20's are $800/pair compared to the price of the $1,500/pair 705's however. Am I comparing apples to oranges?

    I have heard the Paradigm Studio 40, v 3, and it's quite a good speaker, although a bit colored. I would say the same of the Studio 100, v. 3. I presume the Studio 20, v. 3, sounds similar. However, the B & W 705 seemed to me to more neutral that the Studio 40 and the Studio 100, and I could easily live with a pair. The 705 has pretty good bass response so it should be easy to mate with a subwoofer.

    Somewhat cheaper--and harder to drive--is the PSB Stratus Mini. I liked them about as well as a number of others, and they were quite a bit cheaper, so I bought them. Very neutral speakers, they let the recordings come through. I already had a big subwoofer.

    You might look at the Joseph Audio RM7si, although it sounded hard to me. Still, it measures well and a lot of people like it a lot.

    There are a number of other speakers in your price range that people like from Quad, Dynaudio, Energy, Mirage, Kef, and so on. I would advise listening to a number of them. You are the one who has to listen to the speakers, so it is your preferences that count.
  • 07-16-2004, 08:38 PM
    RGA
    The 705 is $1500.00US?

    Anyway, ask the dealers to take the speakers home and compare. Do yourself a favour and listen to the AN K/Spe someplace. You can get last years model for $1500.00CDN or ~$1150US from http://www.soundhounds.com/ add a bit of shipping. Or the AN J/Spe and you won't need a sub. But you need to listen and if they are not in your area don;t bother.

    But if it's between these two, only you can tell if the extra money is worth the expendature.

    In the same price range I would try the Dynaudio Audience 52, Reference 3a Dulcet, Gershman Acoustics X1 (though they're a bit laid back).

    If you like the Paradigm like sound but want more refinment impact and build qquality try PMC. The TB2 is a pro moonitor speaker and offers incredible bass response. You need to listen fairly nearfield though and in a small or medium sized room - like apartment living rooms. The other good thing about the TB2 is that you can turn it into an active speaker later by adding a Bryston Power pack amplifier to it. This is a seriously good speaker - Despite my reservations of speakers using metal tweeters - and it still holds for me personally with these which is one reason I didn't buy them - but if the impact treble is what you like and you're not put off by speakers exhibiting the kind of treble Paradigm puts out then you want to try the PMC. I think it a bit tacky they list the recording studios that use their speakers - Many speakers are used in recording studios. But if this is the sound you want - then PMC is one of the front-runners at producing it...and the TB2 is under $1500.00US. The power pack add-on is new to this series and I would love to hear it. The speaker will produce a good 40hz - it sounds like it has more bass than the N805 or the Studio 20 to give you some context. http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com/tb2.html
  • 07-16-2004, 08:43 PM
    RGA
    I made an error PMC has revamped the TB2 to a TB2+ and changed the metal tweeter to a Silk Dome. Now I am VERY interested in hearing this new incarnation as the Silk Dome will always present better break-up than ANY metal design and will impart less ringing. PMC always used soft domes in their best speakers and only used metal for their cheap speakers. So perhaps the price has risen. These New PMC speakers have me interested - next time I'm in Vancouver I'll check them out myself.
  • 07-16-2004, 09:01 PM
    92135011
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    The 705 is $1500.00US?

    Anyway, ask the dealers to take the speakers home and compare. Do yourself a favour and listen to the AN K/Spe someplace. You can get last years model for $1500.00CDN or ~$1150US from http://www.soundhounds.com/ add a bit of shipping. Or the AN J/Spe and you won't need a sub. But you need to listen and if they are not in your area don;t bother.

    But if it's between these two, only you can tell if the extra money is worth the expendature.

    In the same price range I would try the Dynaudio Audience 52, Reference 3a Dulcet, Gershman Acoustics X1 (though they're a bit laid back).

    If you like the Paradigm like sound but want more refinment impact and build qquality try PMC. The TB2 is a pro moonitor speaker and offers incredible bass response. You need to listen fairly nearfield though and in a small or medium sized room - like apartment living rooms. The other good thing about the TB2 is that you can turn it into an active speaker later by adding a Bryston Power pack amplifier to it. This is a seriously good speaker - Despite my reservations of speakers using metal tweeters - and it still holds for me personally with these which is one reason I didn't buy them - but if the impact treble is what you like and you're not put off by speakers exhibiting the kind of treble Paradigm puts out then you want to try the PMC. I think it a bit tacky they list the recording studios that use their speakers - Many speakers are used in recording studios. But if this is the sound you want - then PMC is one of the front-runners at producing it...and the TB2 is under $1500.00US. The power pack add-on is new to this series and I would love to hear it. The speaker will produce a good 40hz - it sounds like it has more bass than the N805 or the Studio 20 to give you some context. http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com/tb2.html

    I thinks Soundhounds is particular about the area they serve. When I first emailed them, they asked me where I was from before any other enquiry was made. So I think you need to be in an area with no dealer or in the BC area.
  • 07-16-2004, 09:25 PM
    RGA
    That is fair enough - but i think they are more concerned about people trying to buy Paradigm from them because they are cheaper than anyone can get them in the US. Paradigm won't allow Soundhounds to sell to U.S. shoppers. It's a way for Paradigm to make more money off Americans. Though I'm sure they will claim they give Canadians the home town discount - your point of view will depend on how good you think their speakers are I guess.

    Soundhounds did sell the last AN E/D to Potlicker - who uesd to poset here - and he lived in the US. AN is selling last years models so I think they should be able to ship them to anyone anywhere. Being relatively light shipping would be relatively inexpensive.
  • 07-16-2004, 10:29 PM
    jasmit
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by newbsterv2
    I'm in the market for a new system, preferably a bookshelf/sub combo, and have 2 sets of speakers I want to audition. The only problem is that both of the speakers mentioned above are at seperate dealers. I haven't heard the B&W's yet but heard their bigger brothers the 703's. They seemed to disappear quite well but were a little too forward in the midrange for my taste. They weren't honky or nasal they just sound well...very flat through the midrange. I listen to a lot of classical music and like the midrange just a wee bit recessed. I currently own the Paradigm Monitor 7's and while I love what they have done for $550.00/pair I paid for them I'd like better performance even if I need to spend around $2,500 for a good bookshelf and sub combo. My question is this. Do the B&W's sound less boxy to me because the tweeter isn't in the box but a sepereate enclosure? I have these cheapy Cambridge Soundworks speakers for my pc that have a great "openess" and non-boxiness to them and the only reason I can imagine that is is because theyre little tiny cubes reproducing only the high frequencies. I've heard some of Paradigm's bigger Studio brethren including the behemoth Studio 100 v3's. While they were ok to me they still sounded "confused" or "boxy" I guess is the best way to explain it. Anyways my main question was how does the Studio 20 fair againts the 705? Thanks for any info. The 20's are $800/pair compared to the price of the $1,500/pair 705's however. Am I comparing apples to oranges?

    Apples to oranges? With respect to price, yes. With respect to sound, no. When I was speaker shopping, among the speakers I auditioned were the B&W 705's and the Paradigm Reference Studio 20's. Unfortunately I was unable to A/B them because no store in my area at the time carried them. Anyway, to my ears, the 705 was a better sounding speaker -- clearer highs and better imaging in particular. But, the differences, in my opinion, were slight to moderate -- definitely not $700 worth of difference. I didn't think either speaker sounded "boxy." I ended up buying the 20's. If money were no object, I would've bought the 705's -- for the slightly better sound and I must admit, for the more gorgeous cabinet. But, after all is said and done, I'm very satisfied with my purchase. The 20's, in my opinion, are one of the best bang-for-your-buck speakers in audio.
  • 07-16-2004, 11:38 PM
    topspeed
    As others have noted, the difference most certainly won't be night and day. Hey, they are simply both excellent speakers and only your ears will be able to determine if the price difference is worth it or not. A less subjective difference that may or may not affect your decision is that the B&W is available in 4 different solid wood veneers, not a vinyl wrap like the Paradigm. If you have WAF issues, this could worth considering.

    You mention you like classical so why not look into so 'stats or planars like Maggie's or Apogee's? These things love unamplified music and they are certainly worth a listen don't you think?
  • 07-17-2004, 03:24 AM
    newbsterv2
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by topspeed
    As others have noted, the difference most certainly won't be night and day. Hey, they are simply both excellent speakers and only your ears will be able to determine if the price difference is worth it or not. A less subjective difference that may or may not affect your decision is that the B&W is available in 4 different solid wood veneers, not a vinyl wrap like the Paradigm. If you have WAF issues, this could worth considering.

    You mention you like classical so why not look into so 'stats or planars like Maggie's or Apogee's? These things love unamplified music and they are certainly worth a listen don't you think?

    I actually own Maggies my friend. While I do like the way they do certain things I believe that they don't disappear very well. The bass is usually boosted and the highs recessed. I've heard some box speakers that sound really amazing and would just like to stay with those. I love the finish of the 705's for sure. The studio 20's eh well I have to listen to em and decide. Thanks for your input :)
  • 07-17-2004, 11:42 AM
    RGA
    For what it's worht and it's not uc I much preferred the CDM 1NT to the Studio 20V2. I felt the 602S3 was considerably better than studio 20V2 as well as the DM 302(which was a LOT less money) along with the Dynaudio Audience 42. But people say the V3 is better - and the V2 was a lot better IMO than the unlsitenable first series. But then the 705 is supposed to better as well while the 602S3 is getting a little long. Have you thought to try Quad?
  • 07-17-2004, 04:10 PM
    topspeed
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by newbsterv2
    While I do like the way they do certain things I believe that they don't disappear very well.

    Wow, that's interesting. I usually don't hear that from planar speakers. Of course, Maggies are much more sensitive to placement and room interaction than dynamics so who knows? FWIW, I prefer the sound of the previous CDM 1NT to the 705's, and no, it's not because I own 1NT's. B&W changed the voicing of the 700's to a rounder, fuller sound more in line with the 600's as oppossed to the Nauts. A matter of taste I 'spose. The 20 v3's are very, very good speakers and you really can't go wrong with either. Are you considering anything else?
  • 07-17-2004, 05:31 PM
    Geoffcin
    It's not just for classical!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by topspeed
    You mention you like classical so why not look into so 'stats or planars like Maggie's or Apogee's? These things love unamplified music and they are certainly worth a listen don't you think?

    Thanks for recommending Planars, and I agree that they work well for classical. The real surprise that people get when they hear them is that they are great for ALL types of music, except for possibly RAP, and heavy bassed dance. Planars throw a HUGE soundstage, and need space to work correctly. If you have a limited space, or have problems with WAF, then I would not recommend them.

    The problems that Newbster has with his maggies sould more like the fact that he has the MMG model. The MMG's while great speakers, do not use the true Ribbon tweeter. The Quasi-Ribbon they use is a superior tweeter to all but the most exotic tweeters used in box speakers, but it is not in the same class as the true Ribbon tweeter, which is quite possibly be the best high frequancy driver ever made. My advise is to get a slightly used set of 3.3r's or even a IIIa. These can be had pretty cheaply, and will knock your socks off whether your a "planar" guy or not.
  • 07-18-2004, 08:46 AM
    newbsterv2
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Pat D
    I have heard the Paradigm Studio 40, v 3, and it's quite a good speaker, although a bit colored. I would say the same of the Studio 100, v. 3. I presume the Studio 20, v. 3, sounds similar. However, the B & W 705 seemed to me to more neutral that the Studio 40 and the Studio 100, and I could easily live with a pair. The 705 has pretty good bass response so it should be easy to mate with a subwoofer.

    Somewhat cheaper--and harder to drive--is the PSB Stratus Mini. I liked them about as well as a number of others, and they were quite a bit cheaper, so I bought them. Very neutral speakers, they let the recordings come through. I already had a big subwoofer.

    You might look at the Joseph Audio RM7si, although it sounded hard to me. Still, it measures well and a lot of people like it a lot.

    There are a number of other speakers in your price range that people like from Quad, Dynaudio, Energy, Mirage, Kef, and so on. I would advise listening to a number of them. You are the one who has to listen to the speakers, so it is your preferences that count.


    Thanks for the info Pat. I've listened to the Studio 40's and 100's both v3 as well. I just couldn't keep listening to them I don't know what it was. I've listened to the Joseph's and those are some nice speakers. They seemed to me though to be just a tad forward in the midrange. Maybe flat I guess but for classical music I think a speaker that is just a wee bit laid back is a better bet. I'll check out the PSB's also I didn't even think about those. Thanks.
  • 07-18-2004, 08:49 AM
    newbsterv2
    Thanks for your info. I admit there's just something about the design and looks of the 705 that make it extremely attractive. Paradigm has never really been about the looks but hey they are very straightforward about what's important to them and that's speakers that have it where it counts. The drivers, crossovers, and cabinets. I know for sure that the cabinet of the studio 20 is better braced than the 705. Anyway thanks for your input I'm going to audition the 20's.
  • 07-18-2004, 09:51 AM
    Jochem
    Paradigm 2'0s
    Hi, I just posted a new topic, considering my new Studio 20 V3s
    Maybe my words are of some use in this discussion too.


    Jochem
  • 07-18-2004, 08:22 PM
    topspeed
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by newbsterv2
    I know for sure that the cabinet of the studio 20 is better braced than the 705.

    How? The 705 uses B&W's famous matrix bracing along with tapered cabinetry to further combat internal reflections and cabinet signature. I'm not saying you're wrong, just curious as to how you arrived at your deduction.

    Cheers.
  • 07-18-2004, 09:30 PM
    newbsterv2
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by topspeed
    How? The 705 uses B&W's famous matrix bracing along with tapered cabinetry to further combat internal reflections and cabinet signature. I'm not saying you're wrong, just curious as to how you arrived at your deduction.

    Cheers.

    I've looked at B&W's website and listed under every one of their product lines is the technologies they use. When you look under the 700 series the "matrix bracing" is not shown there it is only shown in the signature lines on up. I assume they don't use the "matrix bracing" in the 700 series. I will however check into it for clarification. I also read a review of the 705 from stereophile magazine and they measured some significant behavior from the side panels which to me would indicate less than adequate bracing.
  • 07-18-2004, 11:08 PM
    Woochifer
    I've only listened to the Studio 20, and I will add that the v.3 version is easily one of the better speakers I've heard at the $800 price point. For a conventional box speaker, it's imaging and ability to "disappear" are about as good as I've ever heard for under $1k. I've not had a chance to listen to any of the floorstanding Studio series speakers yet, but both the 20 and the 40 v.3s are very impressive speakers in their price range. They'll definitely be a revelation if you're used to the sound of the Monitor 7s. The level of refinement, imaging, and the all around balance of the Studio speakers are a clear step up. You only lose the bass extension, but gain big time everywhere else.

    If you do get a chance to audition the Studio 20 against the B&W 700 series, definitely report your findings because I've heard mostly good things about that new B&W series. The main drawback is the high price, but Paradigm has been hiking the prices on the Studio series as well.

    FWIW, I felt that the Studio 20 v.2 (which sold for $650) was a better all around speaker for both multichannel and two-channel applications than comparable models in the B&W 600 S2 series. And the Studio 40 v.2 was an even stronger offering, so that's what I started with (the question I had to deal with was whether the $900 Studio 40 was worth the extra $300 over the DM602, and my answer was a resounding yes). I use a pair of the Studio 20s as surround speakers, and coupled with the Studio CC, it makes for a very balanced and well matched 5.1 setup.

    Even if the speakers are sold thru different dealers, the best thing for you to do is to borrow the speakers from those dealers and do a comparison at home, since you need to check on how those speakers react to your room's acoustical environment anyway. I did exactly that when I'd finalized my choices down, and the A/B home comparison confirmed what I had jotted down at the various dealer demo rooms.