• 06-17-2004, 11:11 PM
    92135011
    Adventures at SoundHounds today - good times
    After taking the 7am Spirit of BC ferry across to Swartz bay, I proceeded over to Victoria for the imfamous Soundhounds HiFi centre. Apparently I took the wrong turn so it took me over half an hour to get there. They opened at 930 anyways, so I was just on time. On the outside Soundhounds doesnt look like much. It's a cutout from an old appartment that could pass as a safehouse for druggies. The white paint was peeling and the Soundhounds sign looked as though it was from the wild wild west. Stepping inside, it didnt look at all what commercialized hifi stores were like. LPs everywhere, gear everywhere - a clutter to say the least.
    Originally I was going to listen to the 3 audionotes K,J,E, B&W 805 and the paradigm studios. Then later I decided that I wouldnt listen to paradigm again since I didnt like them at all the last time I tried. I took the small room. Seemed like the room accoustics were pretty bad. High ceiling, narrow but long, and even has a TV somewhere on the side for some strange reason.

    I started with the B&W 805s. Never tried these before. Nice little speaker but it wasnt like what I expected. Sounded a little small. Maybe it was the room accoustics, but as you will read later on, maybe not. Another thing that was annoying was that the tweeter was sorta on its on - kind of like its not part of the music. Sorry for my lack of technical terms, but I'm no audiophile pro. They were nice, but werent moving.

    Now, the ANK/spe. These were the special price ones. Surprizingly, they look MUCH better in person than in pictures. The K didnt have the problem with the tweeter separation or whatever and definately sounded a lot bigger. It was also able to reproduce instruments a lot more realistically. I found that most speakers stuggle with a muted trumpet. The K muted trumpet sounded like the real thing. I enjoyed the Ks a lot more than the 805s.

    ANJ/spe was next. Now these were something else...I thought that the Ks kicked the 805s out of the water, but these Js kick those Ks out to space. Yes, it's not just the bass. The sound is about 10x bigger than the Ks and the music seems to float around in the air and leap out in front of you. I timed my sessions as 1 hour for each speaker. At the end of the hour, I didnt wanna stop. Everything about it was better than the K.

    The ANE/lexus was done in the outside room since it was all set up. I didnt get to spend very much time here though...Too noisy because the door was open. Couldnt really close it cuz it was at least 30 degrees today. I wont comment on this one - just isnt fair.

    I still had some time, so I talked with my dealer Paul, who raved on about how the internal cable of the speaker made a differnce and that the "special deal" ANs came once in a lifetime. So then I decided to listen to a copper version of one of the ANs.

    I think the ANJ/L was the same one RGA was auditioning. Sound was smaller, bass wasnt as tight anymore were the ones I noticed instantly. All in all, it wasnt as good of a Speaker than the ANJ/spe. Once you get there, you cant come back.

    I have always liked the B&W sound...thought it was better than a lot of speakers. Now, after listening to AN, it beats B&W! Here is the dillemma. I put in a refundable deposit for an ANJ to keep it on hold - keep in mind these are the special price ones at 2500cdn. Should I buy these or make my own E from the E kit for about the same price? I will be getting someone else to make the cabinet. However, there is still that factor of risk. My carpenters little experience with speaker cabinets, but a good carpenter nonetheless vs ANs carpenters who make them all the time.

    BTW, soundhounds has great hospitality. I spent a total of 6 and a half hours there straight with no lunch. They made me a tasty cappacino, offered me cookies, and later in the day gave me some pineapple with ice drink (this stuff is really good by the way)

    Equipment complemented: AN OTO phono, AN CD3.1x, AN TT1, AN Sogon IC, AN spx. Yeah I know its kinda biased toward AN. Well what do you expect from the "audio note room"

    Sorry for my lack of indepth analysis. I dont really know how to analyse if a speaker is good. Dont have the technical background I guess. All I know is what sounded good - and they all did, just that some were better.

    Note to RGA: the Maggie was model was SMG and the CD player you used was the Rotel RCD-1072
  • 06-18-2004, 09:11 AM
    RGA
    Glad you had a good trip - the outside looks like a delapidated wreck - safehous for druggies LOL Stereo druggies.

    The store has a used record store feel - and not the polish of other dealerships which look like Molly Maid comes through every week. Soundhounds is gear and music oriented - with extensive tube gear. If you saw the garage in back it's a repair upgrade place and the basement is loaded with stuff.

    Your assessment of the 805 is the same as mine and speakers using non like non soncially matched drivers. Until you hear a better speaker the N805 sounds very good. It was my favorite speaker for a long time. But integration into a cohesive whole fails a little on them and all other speakers i have heard using totally different drivers. It does not take a golden ear to hear it. But considering the N805 is up against competition that ALSO has this problem you don't notice it - until you hear something much better and when you do then speakers like the N805 may as well be relegated to clock radio status.

    Well it is frankly hard to not have a snob like attitude after you hear them because the other brands the store carries while nice simply isn't close. Lack of treble noise or false artifact ringing - the highs are every bit and more-so extended so they are not rolled off. The bass is better than anything their size matching and betterring most sub $2000.00 subwoofers - with the exception of raw volume level.

    You have to consider your room size with relation to the J and E. And you have to consider the costs involved. The J/Spe is a higher level than the E/XL but the E's do have more bass response 11hz more which can't be completely ignored. But the E is designed for a larger room and could get a touch unruly in a smaller one.

    But the J will still thump most speakers under 10kUS in the bass department. The difference between the K and J is very noticeable - and you probably get why adding a sub to the K is just a laughable idea.

    Basically the J and the E are very very similar sounding speakers - the K has the same tone but quite a considerable step down.

    On the other AA forum reading through others' experiences You can safely put the J/SPe up against speakers in the 10KUS realm. The N801 for example is doubtful to put out more bass than the J. And the J will pressurize a room better with a faster tighter midband - it simply doesn't become conjested. Add to this the ease of room placement the size and the ease of driving the speaker - it's no small wonder Soundhounds replaced the top B&W's and ML's. Big doesn't mean more bass and it doesn't mean better.

    The vocal band is as strong as loudspeakers at any price can get. Yes they're expensive but in relative terms (against the competition) IMO are dirt cheap. There are reasons why people who have owned Quads and planars for 30 years and switched to AN - and why audiophiles/writers like Mr. Soo takes the AN E/D over Apogees, KHorns, and some other notables at double or triple + the price- rather than being SOTA in one given sonic area the balance comes off as real music accross the entire frequency band where your ear does not continually look for sonic attributes.

    It's hard with your eyes open though because you keep saying bass should not do that from an 8 inch woofer - but beyond the visual cues my ear, anyway, does not focus on the treble or the soundstage - it is merely presented and seems right. There is a supreme delicacy on stringed and acoustic instruments as well not the dullness from other boxed speakers.

    It's a tough call because the J/Spe is already made and would certainly save you a lot of time and effort(and skill level questions) - frankly if you're in a room of ~15x17 or even bigger the J would probably be enough in the way room filling bass capability. With my room of ~13-16 I can't turn the volume past 9 o'clock without hurtig my ears and it's pretty damn loud at 8. Seemingly more sensitive in this regard than my Wharfedales.

    The J is a good deal yes but you need to think about the sound you will want and not just because it's a deal. On the other hand there is the upgrade wiring etc of the Spe to consider over the basic E.

    You have all your colour options open to you building the E yourself. Thei opinion was that a higher J model is better than a lower E model like the J/Spe over the E/D kinda thing. Judging by the difference between the J/L and J/Spe then I would sacrifice some bass for the refinement everywhere else. How much recorded material is there that going to 16hz from ~25hz will matter much? Most music does not fall below 40hz.

    If you're in doubt about the J's ability in a normal room to have serious bass depth then on Tuesday (unfortunately it's the only day I have free) you're welcome to come to my place and listen for yourself. I live about 5 minutes by bus from the Departure Bay Ferry. Because of the huge ceilings at Soundhounds - which means a HUGE room the J still musters considerable energy. There is Far more bass in my room than what you heard at Soundhounds - though my Sugden/Cambridge combo is completely outclassed by the CD3.1/Meishu or Soro SE set-ups.

    Was Terry still working on the Juke Box? What kinda stuff were you listening to.

    And did you see any good used stuff?

    PS
    Thanks for the info on the Maggie etc.
  • 06-18-2004, 09:51 PM
    92135011
    RGA,
    thanks for the kind offer, but tuesday is the day after i finish my graveyard shift. Would be too tired. I do not doubt the J's ability at all. There were many things I heard in recordings that I simply never heard. What the! that was part of this song? However, it's true that I was expecting 30 somewhat hertz to sound lower than what I heard. Despite this, I found the sound most rewarding. I didnt want to end my hour long session with them. But to be fair to the rest of the speakers, I did. Paul said I could drop a deposit to place them on hold so then I did. One thing I like about soundhounds is that they dont have a real policy. Just like your K trade ins and my hold is flexible. They dont push any written policy of how many % of the merchandise for X number of weeks hold. He said himself that policies dont work for everyone.

    I'm not sure which guy was Terry. It was a pretty relaxed day and most of the staff spent their time lounging around chatting and serving the occational customer that came in. A total of maybe 5 customers came in all day while I was there (at least I think). Didnt see the jukebox anywhere though. The used section was cluttered as usual. Paul said that all the speakers were in no terms as good as the K. Saw a tannoy and some other brands I wasnt too interested in. Dont think they got anything thing good ever since you went there last.

    Because of my lack of music selection, I had to make due with any music I had at home. This is the list here.
    1. Tin Tin Deo, Oscar Peterson meets Roy Hargrove and Ralph Moore
    2. Fallen, Sarah Mclachlan
    3. Bring me to life, Evanescence
    4. Klimblim, Don Ross
    5. Cole's Song, Julian Lennon
    6. One O'clock Jump, Count Basie
    7. All of me, Count Basie
    8. Hannah Jane, Hootie and the Blowfish
    9. Billy Jean, Michael Jackson
    10. The song is you, Frank Sinatra
    11. Some sort of canon by the Canadian Brass
    12. Beethoven 6th (5-6 min worth from the start)
    13. I've got a Rock'n'roll heart, Eric Clapton

    9-13 on vinyl, the rest on CD. It might not be the "audiophile's choice" for audition music, but let's face it. It's stuff I like! and I think that's what really matters!

    I think I might just end up going for this deal rather than making it myself. Although the grill holes make the speaker look good looking than its newer counterpart, I think it will be quite useful against dust and just in case one of my little cousins come over.

    Well, looks like I'm into the Audio Note band wagon now. i first heard AN from you here on the AudioReview. Checked out their website and said to myself "what the heck...this website sux...where are the products? what's with all this level stuff? why are the speakers so plain and 70s?" Hearing more of your rant and rave, I felt that maybe they are worth trying out just for the hell of it. Shelling out that much money really gives me a heartache though. That's a lot of cash. Hell, I'm not gonna tell anyone how much I will have paid for them. Afraid of the lecture and all that. Especially the plain look will really throw them off guard. To those who dont know hifi, good looks and size count a lot. For some reason, to them, a large speaker sounds and costs more than any small ones. If they saw the plain box of AN, they would have guessed it was a DIY 200 speaker. I mean I was gonna chip in with a bunch of friends to get another friend a pair of Energy C-1s for bout 220cdn. Their response was "WHAT? that expensive?" My response was "WHAT? you should see what I have my eye out for. " A close friend also said I was wasting money on stuff that I would be leaving at home. Why not get something you could show off or something? Like a car with a nice sound system? 1) I dont feel the need to impress anyone. 2) car sound is never nice in my experience 3) the time I spend in a car is probably small fraction of the time I spend home. 20Gs for a modified used sports compact car is ok, but a few thousand on high fidelity sound reproduction isnt. Different priorities I guess, but double standards nonetheless.
  • 06-18-2004, 10:56 PM
    RGA
    When I was 18 I went into a high end dealer and dropped $2500.00 on a Pioneer Elite receiver and a Boston Acoustics subwoofer. At that time I had no car. My theory was that I could own a total piece of junk car or a pretty nice stereo system. The theory was sound - unfortunately what I purchased was not. But no internet back then and really only had magazines to rely on. Oops - little did I know that many companies smooze to get positive reviews nor did I pay attention to magazines that gave EVERYTHING a positive review. Both were and still are useless.

    Yes they're ugly, yes they won't impress others in this regard. Most of my friends - actually all of them are not in the slightest way interested in high end audio. Though I did impress a Bose 901 owner with my lowly B&W DM 302 - he later sold the utterly inferior 901 - and I never did find out what he bought.

    Soundhounds does not have the best rooms but they have a fair set-up - compare speaker X versus Y in the same room. I don't think you should be pressured into buying the J/Spe. The very fact that they are ugly and relatively unknown means that they are not going anywhere immediately.

    And you should not strap yourself to do such a deal. On the other hand I look at a speaker as a 20 year+ investment if you get the right speakers. People spend more on leather seats for their car yet would whine about $2500.00 on speakers that will outlast 4-5 cars and leather options. Hell I don't even have a job.

    People will think whatever they want in the end. I knew a guy who had $40,000 in a two channel rig but didn't own a car - he lived in a penthouse in Vancouver. He reasoned that he lives in his home - that's where the investment should be made not some silly car - easy when you live downtown admittedly. But $15k is a cheap car. I would much rather have a $15k Car and a $15k stereo than a $29,000.00 Car and a $1000.00 stereo. Cars to me are like toasters - you need it to make toast - you need a car to get you someplace. Music brings me pleasure - a good system enhances that pleasure. A car - is a freaking money pit - the fancier the car the bigger the money pit.

    But I stress that you really should not feel rushed about this. I was looking for years until I arrived at the K. And because I was SOOO familiar with the K and after hearing the E's moving to the J was more of a confirmation than starting at the beginning - ie; I knew the sound before going in pretty much.

    For you it is all very new. So make sure you have in fact listened to a variety of the competition - like ML, and other differring designs. Once you have, or if you already have heard them, if the J is still king then it's not a hard choice.

    But I also knew you had your plans for building the E's. Then again there is no law that says you can't build those as well one day.

    Remember this is a LOT of money to spend on a single componant. While IMO it is the most important componant - most people don't spend $1000.00 on an ENTIRE stereo system over the course of their whole life. That can put things in some perspective.

    $2500.00 can buy an awful lot of other stuff - a Big Screen TV AND a lptop computer and maybe even a Digital camera - JUST for speakers. This is all stuff that I was considering - $2500.00 can buy a full very good stereo system with a tube amplifier - and also bring musical satisfaction - so be sure you think it through.

    And make sure you're not being biased of what I have to say or what Paul has to say about this gear - or Peter etc. I do love the gear and I get caught up in my own liking for it but I also recognize that not everyone has the same preference that I have. SO if the music that came out impressed you more than what the competition has offerred to your ear and you have put out what I, Paul, Peter or the reviews have said - then you can feel totally comfortable buying them.

    One good thing about being ugly and very retro is that if you're ever robbed they may leave the speakers LOL they would think ahh just some 70's thing not worth taking. But a B&W? WOW...look at that cool thing.
  • 06-19-2004, 09:11 AM
    RGA
    Forgot to ask - did you see the Kits? Or hear them?
  • 06-19-2004, 11:03 PM
    92135011
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    When I was 18 I went into a high end dealer and dropped $2500.00 on a Pioneer Elite receiver and a Boston Acoustics subwoofer. At that time I had no car. My theory was that I could own a total piece of junk car or a pretty nice stereo system. The theory was sound - unfortunately what I purchased was not. But no internet back then and really only had magazines to rely on. Oops - little did I know that many companies smooze to get positive reviews nor did I pay attention to magazines that gave EVERYTHING a positive review. Both were and still are useless.

    Yes they're ugly, yes they won't impress others in this regard. Most of my friends - actually all of them are not in the slightest way interested in high end audio. Though I did impress a Bose 901 owner with my lowly B&W DM 302 - he later sold the utterly inferior 901 - and I never did find out what he bought.

    Soundhounds does not have the best rooms but they have a fair set-up - compare speaker X versus Y in the same room. I don't think you should be pressured into buying the J/Spe. The very fact that they are ugly and relatively unknown means that they are not going anywhere immediately.

    And you should not strap yourself to do such a deal. On the other hand I look at a speaker as a 20 year+ investment if you get the right speakers. People spend more on leather seats for their car yet would whine about $2500.00 on speakers that will outlast 4-5 cars and leather options. Hell I don't even have a job.

    People will think whatever they want in the end. I knew a guy who had $40,000 in a two channel rig but didn't own a car - he lived in a penthouse in Vancouver. He reasoned that he lives in his home - that's where the investment should be made not some silly car - easy when you live downtown admittedly. But $15k is a cheap car. I would much rather have a $15k Car and a $15k stereo than a $29,000.00 Car and a $1000.00 stereo. Cars to me are like toasters - you need it to make toast - you need a car to get you someplace. Music brings me pleasure - a good system enhances that pleasure. A car - is a freaking money pit - the fancier the car the bigger the money pit.

    But I stress that you really should not feel rushed about this. I was looking for years until I arrived at the K. And because I was SOOO familiar with the K and after hearing the E's moving to the J was more of a confirmation than starting at the beginning - ie; I knew the sound before going in pretty much.

    For you it is all very new. So make sure you have in fact listened to a variety of the competition - like ML, and other differring designs. Once you have, or if you already have heard them, if the J is still king then it's not a hard choice.

    But I also knew you had your plans for building the E's. Then again there is no law that says you can't build those as well one day.

    Remember this is a LOT of money to spend on a single componant. While IMO it is the most important componant - most people don't spend $1000.00 on an ENTIRE stereo system over the course of their whole life. That can put things in some perspective.

    $2500.00 can buy an awful lot of other stuff - a Big Screen TV AND a lptop computer and maybe even a Digital camera - JUST for speakers. This is all stuff that I was considering - $2500.00 can buy a full very good stereo system with a tube amplifier - and also bring musical satisfaction - so be sure you think it through.

    And make sure you're not being biased of what I have to say or what Paul has to say about this gear - or Peter etc. I do love the gear and I get caught up in my own liking for it but I also recognize that not everyone has the same preference that I have. SO if the music that came out impressed you more than what the competition has offerred to your ear and you have put out what I, Paul, Peter or the reviews have said - then you can feel totally comfortable buying them.

    One good thing about being ugly and very retro is that if you're ever robbed they may leave the speakers LOL they would think ahh just some 70's thing not worth taking. But a B&W? WOW...look at that cool thing.

    I am truly impressed by the ANJ sound. I was actually expecting a lot from the 805s, but something just wasnt right. That was however not the case after I heard the AN. After the numerous dealers I have visited in Vancouver, Richmond and West Van, I found that the ANJ was the only speaker that caused me to stop trying to analyse the damn thing for its highs and lows. Totally forgot about the whole analysing thing and started to enjoy. And again, that muted trumpet sound really caught my attention because it sounded so real unlike most other speakers that make it much too nazal.
    I'm definately in no rush, but I thought I would drop a deposit just in case I wanted to get it and get this deal. But it's true. It's a lot of money indeed. Hard to say if it justifies, but that goes to all hobbies. In the US there is a national association of toothpick holder collectors. They spend money and time with toothpick holders - makes them happy so why not. Lots of my buddies got themselves cars, but I still take the bus (mostly because of the $20 UBC bus pass and the girlfriend is OK with it now). I'm not into cars. I have been doin music since I was 7 - thats my thing.
    The kit I never got to try because Paul said something about how he didnt have a suitable preamp or something. I thnk maybe he got tired and a little lazy LOL. But he did say that if I was good with soldering and like upgrading then the kit could be the way to go. He is confident that AN will back up their products. BTW, the stands are commin in within a week or 2. The price is really steep. Maybe he can work out a better price. Afterall, accessories are marked up big time
  • 06-20-2004, 09:55 AM
    RGA
    Well you're right there is a hobby aspect here - and I'll take this over toothpick collecting :D

    In the big scheme of life $2500.00Cdn is chump change - and compared to what a lot of people pay it's a relative steal.

    As for stands - no law says you have to buy AN stands. The 20 inch stands i have now are quite good enough.

    I'll have to determine what trade in and price I'll get. What did he say they sell for?
  • 06-20-2004, 10:31 AM
    92135011
    the stands are a rip at 5 bills.
    i dont know how else to get a 15 inch stand though.
    Pretty sure i can work out some sorta deal. I mean, I will be making over 3 grand in purchase. A discount isnt too much to ask for.
  • 06-20-2004, 03:07 PM
    RGA
    You can order stands a 15 inches from Skylan, Atacama, and probably loads of others. $500.00 for stands is obscene IMO. It does not need to be made out of steal.

    Hell you might even get Sound Anchors for less than that and these guys make some of the best stands. Audio Note stands are shipped in from Great Britain - and the shipping is the killer.
  • 06-22-2004, 09:08 PM
    92135011
    here is to save you an email
    if you want 15 inch stands from skylan, they are about 200 including shipping with custom larger top-plate
  • 06-24-2004, 02:44 PM
    RGA
    That's a pretty good price - err that's the exact same price soundhounds charges. Their 4 pillar stand would still be less than the Audio Note stand - so I may look at that. Trouble is I would have my current stands being ather useless. Perhaps I can trade the Skylans in for something else at soundhounds - like wiring *shudder* and then order the 15 inch stands direct from Skylan. Hmm. Things now to think about.
  • 06-24-2004, 03:33 PM
    92135011
    You think the stand will be heavy enough to support the speaker?
    I guess I can go get lead shot to make it heavier than only sand
    You have any idea how much lead shot is?
  • 06-24-2004, 09:51 PM
    RGA
    Don't laugh but I am such a NON builder that I had Paul put together the stand when I bough the K/Spe. They filled it with some weird blue sand(for free). The stands are heavier than the speakers by a lot.

    5 inches lower is not very much - it reduces the height by 1/4 and will reduce the weight of the stand - but the base is the heaviest part.

    I would ask Woochifer what he paid for his stands - his are adjustable which is nice and heavier than the Skylans - Pretty sure they're high mass. They may cost the same or more than the Audio Note's though - and really I would not want the hassle of buying from the States and getting nailed a bunch of other costs.

    I just think it's ludicrous to spend $500.00Cdn on a stand.

    I think the skylan stands ire heavy enough because the Audio Note's while large for standmounts really are not that heavy. Indeed the instruction manual on the J states that you can get good results from an open frame stand provided that it is is rigid and has spikes - but they then go on to say that a spiked high mass stand will give best results.

    The speakers will come with blue tak so you don't need to buy it. After reading through the manual - not exciting just photo-copied pages with a staple in the corner - LOL talk about not wasting money :) these are actually Infinite baffle designs.

    I think I get how they match speakers so closely

    "The individual adjustment, and matching to a reference, of each crossover network to each pair of drive units allows an unparalleled degree of sample to sample consistency not only within pairs of loudspeakers, but also from one pair to another. This adjustment, carried out under dynamic opertaing conditions compensates for the slight variations that always exist in drive units and assures precise uniformity of sonic performance. Complete quality assurance can only be achieved by such a system of 100% sample testing."

    As to your question about vinyl versus veneered.

    "We recommend that you occasionally (perhaps once a year) was the veneered surface of your speakers."

    The speakers have a 5 year warranty but unlike many companies the warranty is fully transferable.
  • 06-24-2004, 11:56 PM
    92135011
    Paul said I could get the AN stands for 4 bills.
    50 bux more shouldnt be a problem
    So I would be looking into 350.
    I think Wooch's sound anchors are something like 400 or so US, which would work out to be way too much for me.

    Blue sand you say? I think maybe that is playground sandbox sand. A nice sanitary stuff rather than some of the stuff you can buy in large loads extracted from a river or something.

    Well, its not like a real wood veneer matters too much anyways. Afterall, black will always look black anyways. Too bad they didnt have any of the nice stuff left over. I wouldnt mind a nice Cherry or something like that.

    Another thing about the skylan is that it has 2 posts. The J is quite a bit wider than most speakers. In fact, it's dimentions are close to that of the early 70s technics my old man got a long time ago. Wonder if that would make a difference in stability.
  • 06-25-2004, 09:43 AM
    RGA
    Well I'm using the J's right now on Skylan's and without a proper top plate and they're fine stability wise.

    $400.00CDN? That is not too bad I guess - depends what they'll give me for my Skylan's.
  • 06-26-2004, 10:41 AM
    RGA
    Hey - you might be interested if you're following that guy ranting against Audio Note on AA (people need to listen before ranting) that the E/LX was given a Best Buy in Hi-fi Choice's August issue(technically that is the highest award they give). They reviewed E's in 1992 and 2000 and recommended them then and they are still chosen best against new competition - shows you that speaker design has really come a long way over that time when a a 1940's inspired speaker is still pounding the competition eh? And to my mind what is more impressive is that this is despite being positioned 1 meter into the room and described by Peter as about the worst place you could put them Paul Messenger has apparently not returned the speakers to boot.

    I have asked to get the full review scanned and e-mailed to me - I have page one but my hotmail can only take 1 at a time for some bizarre reason.

    Why they don't let you buy the issue in the from of a PDF I don't know. You're in Vancouver so maybe the bigger Chapters stores carry the magazine.
  • 06-26-2004, 04:25 PM
    46minaudio
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    Hey - you might be interested if you're following that guy ranting against Audio Note on AA (people need to listen before ranting) that the E/LX was given a Best Buy in Hi-fi Choice's August issue(technically that is the highest award they give). They reviewed E's in 1992 and 2000 and recommended them then and they are still chosen best against new competition - shows you that speaker design has really come a long way over that time when a a 1940's inspired speaker is still pounding the competition eh? And to my mind what is more impressive is that this is despite being positioned 1 meter into the room and described by Peter as about the worst place you could put them Paul Messenger has apparently not returned the speakers to boot.

    I have asked to get the full review scanned and e-mailed to me - I have page one but my hotmail can only take 1 at a time for some bizarre reason.

    Why they don't let you buy the issue in the from of a PDF I don't know. You're in Vancouver so maybe the bigger Chapters stores carry the magazine.

    RGA I went to the AN web sitet and looked up the AN ks and I read this
    "The AN-K is a bookshelf-sized loudspeaker capable of a bandwidth from 50 Hz to 20 Hz (-6 dB) with an efficiency of around 90 dB/m. "
    Where are you gitting these 16 HZ figures from?And if you would please give me the 8" driver specks thats in This woofer..?
  • 06-26-2004, 09:00 PM
    92135011
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    Hey - you might be interested if you're following that guy ranting against Audio Note on AA (people need to listen before ranting) that the E/LX was given a Best Buy in Hi-fi Choice's August issue(technically that is the highest award they give). They reviewed E's in 1992 and 2000 and recommended them then and they are still chosen best against new competition - shows you that speaker design has really come a long way over that time when a a 1940's inspired speaker is still pounding the competition eh? And to my mind what is more impressive is that this is despite being positioned 1 meter into the room and described by Peter as about the worst place you could put them Paul Messenger has apparently not returned the speakers to boot.

    I have asked to get the full review scanned and e-mailed to me - I have page one but my hotmail can only take 1 at a time for some bizarre reason.

    Why they don't let you buy the issue in the from of a PDF I don't know. You're in Vancouver so maybe the bigger Chapters stores carry the magazine.

    Yeah, the downtown Chapters has all the audio magazines like hifi choice, hifi world, UHF, stereophile, and the other big names. Could you possibly send me to review too?

    BTW, 46minaudio, the 16hz is for the AN/E not the K.
  • 06-26-2004, 09:10 PM
    RGA
    We are talking about the E. The K can produce 36hz -6db only if place in a corner.

    The AN J/Spe was rated by Hifi choice as Follows: Though this rating was not done in a corner as Audio Note recommends:

    "Not as sensitive as the bigger floorstanders in this test, the AN-J/SPe still musters a full 89.5dB (re. 2.83V/1m) from its essentially undamped, reflex-loaded cabinet.

    Neither is the load especially tough with a minimum 5 Ohm at 150Hz and an average of 12.3 Ohm to keep any valve amps from wheezing. The port resonance looks very broad indeed, providing a deal of reinforcement from 20Hz-90Hz (-3dB points) while the driver itself rolls off to 60Hz (-6dB).

    Bass distortion remains very low indeed at ~0.15-0.2% but climbs closer to 0.6% through the midrange where the pulp-coned bass/mid driver is obviously working a little harder.


    The E is rated at 16hz -6db - basically the same as the J but a bigger cabinet.

    "There is a Martin Colloms article in HiFi News & RR June 2002 about level 5 AN system . MC checked in the lab AN-E/SEC Silver speakers with claimed sensitivity of 94.5dB. He wrote:

    "I checked out the speaker in the lab and confirmed the high 94dB sensitivity, with 3.6 ohm minimum impedance, a wide 28Hz to 20kHz (+/-3dB) response when adjusted for near wall palcement, and a 29Hz tuned port with an in-room -6dB point of 18Hz at reasonable drive levels.."

    It should be noted that Peter continously works to achieve better. The sensitivity for example in the 1992 version of the E mustered only 90.2db(a chipboard box copper wiring) in 2000 got 92db and this latest batch are 94db. The higher versions trade a more difficult impedence swing apparently though - the cheaper E's don't go under 5ohms but the more silvered E/Sec by Colloms went to 3.6. This is still pretty easy.

    Hi Fi Choice did note with the new E/XL that at two times the speaker dips to 4ohms at the tuning frequency of 30hz and throughout the upper bass lower mid octave of 150hz to 300hz. This could cause some lesser amps some difficulty.

    The top E/Sogon is rated at 98db and bottoms out at 12hz are matched to within .1db of each other - I don't know anything about that speaker except that it sells for 69,500 British pounds and have external crossovers.

    There are ten different E speakers coming and will have slightly different results in the measuring of sensitivity etc. There is the company measurement which is 2hz lower than what Colloms got but rooms are different and so is positioning - but they get pretty similar results.

    Paul Messenger does note some colouration which could be argued as better decay - So listening for oneself is the only way to know. I think it's fair concern because frankly it has to sound considerably different to sound considerably better - so if one is perfectly happy with what is on the market they may not love the compromises made by Audio Note.

    All speakers are compromised in some way and while I get overly passionate about the sound to my ear I do want it known that I don't think they're PERFECT speakers. I have heard a number of speakers over the years that do various things at a micro level better - but not to my ear on a macro level.

    Mr. Messenger noted several things that are weaknesses and could be off-putting to some listeners(he also curiously contradicts himself) - but in the end the strengths in musicality were too hard to ignore and it garnered the best buy tag even at 2,650GBP. This is the basic E.

    It should also be noted that these are just reviews and like I always say you have to listen for yourself - but hey at least Mr. Messenger said as much. I wonder if Hi-fi CHoice will trade the old E they took in 1992 in for the new E with the better cabinetry. Pretty cool to keep the same reference speaker for 12 years - as does one of the Stereophile writers. Enjoythemusic's chief editor has used the J/SPx as his reference speaker for the last 10 years and still going - I'm not a big supporter of reviews but it's interesting to know what the reviewers themselves use to listen to music for enjoyment.

    The K as good as it is is a significant step down from the J or E. But it's significantly cheaper as well.
  • 06-26-2004, 09:37 PM
    92135011
    The 3.6 ohms minimum impedence doesnt sound very good. Well not nearly as good as 5 anyways.
    I thought that the advantage of the AN speaker was to have a flat-line impedence curve so that it wouldnt go choking on a tube amp or something.
    Does the review show the lab results too? like the graphs and stuff?
  • 06-26-2004, 10:31 PM
    RGA
    There is no frequency graph largely because they don't tell you anything - look at soundstage - interesting graphs many measure very similar and yet i dislike a lot of them they consider "good" measuring speakers."

    There are not flat line impedence speakers. It is a range of max/min you need to look at. The J is actually easier to drive from an impedence stand point.

    Hi Fi choice did give the E/XL 91/100 for ease of driveability (They changed to a 100 scale). The sound got 89/100. And he does say it is very compaitble with valve amps. The J is 5ohms at 150hz while the E is 4ohms. How much difference will this make - zippo when the E is still more sensitive.

    It would be nice if Audio Note would update their site once in a while so someomne could get something specific about a speicfic model levels.

    In the end though some of their speakers do slightly better when independantly measured and slightly worse on other products. AN Claims 16hz on some E but 18hz on their web-site. AN claims 25hz -6db for the J but Hi-fi choice gets 20hz -3db. In my room I suspect it's AN's number that is correct - then again hearing below 20hz is not a capability of most people anyway.

    The impedence does seem to be more of an issue on the E's than the J's so if you're concerned question Peter on it.

    He often likes to use the word around - probably because he knows different rooms measurers will do it differently.

    Frankly for me it would not matter since my amp will drive either regardless - and Audio Note amps are all geared for their speakers and won't be a problem. Still claiming they don't dip below 5ohms may be a truth for the J but not the E. But the E/D is not the E/Sec or the E/LX.
  • 06-26-2004, 10:35 PM
    RGA
    Actually, if you look real close their site does differentiate the sensitiivity amongst levels.
  • 06-26-2004, 11:04 PM
    92135011
    Dont matter now...I already ordered a kit1 from Brian Smith. He said he would include the black gate caps and the transformer covers for free.
    I'm still negotiating with soundhounds on the final price of the speaker and stuff. Got it down a bit (stands to about 350).
    I'll post pictures of the kit when I'm finished. Also thinking maybe of doin a website for picture by picture of how to build the kit1. Well depends how much I enjoy building it of course.
  • 06-27-2004, 11:29 AM
    RGA
    Well if you're getting the J none of this ohm business matters since the J does not go under 5ohms.

    46min audio
    I never answered the actual question about the drivers the woofer is a Foster driver made for Audio Note - I do not know which 8 inch woofer it is modelled off of - but the drivers roll off at 60hz - the box serves as a third woofer due to the design - sorry I did not just answer the question thought you were questioning the overall bass response.
  • 06-27-2004, 01:12 PM
    GSI
    RGA,

    Do you have scan of an old HFC articles about AN-J and E? If not, drop your email and I will send it to you.
  • 06-27-2004, 01:19 PM
    RGA
    Hi GSI

    I have these two http://hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=1577
    http://hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=475

    I also have the August 2004 new one of the AN E/LX but it's too big to post it on this site.

    Is this what you meant?
  • 06-27-2004, 02:18 PM
    GSI
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    Hi GSI

    I have these two http://hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=1577
    http://hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=475

    I also have the August 2004 new one of the AN E/LX but it's too big to post it on this site.

    Is this what you meant?


    No, I mean from 1992.
  • 06-27-2004, 04:48 PM
    RGA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GSI
    No, I mean from 1992.

    Thanks I sent you an e-mail

    I see that you own the E SE. Pretty nice indeed.

    I don't feel special anymore - there are more Audio Note owners than I thought :D



    92135011

    Do you know when those stands actually come in?
  • 06-27-2004, 08:58 PM
    92135011
    Yo can I have a copy of those reviews too??

    Stands...im not sure. Paul said they were sent out last week from the UK