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5.1 Surround sound, need help with specs + General advice
Of first of all yes I know there is a similar thread just a few down from this but he hasn't asked the questions I need answered.
Ok, I typed in Speaker forum into google and you guys where second on the list (the first was shopping for speakers). Therefore this makes you guys (and girls) most qualified for the job. I have a 42" full HD tv in my room which I want to put 5.1 surround sound with.
My budged is around $150 AUS
Although I do own decent quality headphones I think I've got far from Audiophile like hearing some of you guys seem to have. {Although I still do cringe when my girlfriend voluntarily uses her origional iPod headphones ;( }.
I'll try and give as much detail as possible.
My room is approximately 4m wide, 5m long and 2.5m high, I have a big window about 2X2m (single glaze). Bed made of wood and cupboards able to be completely closed. Not sure what the walls are made up but I know they're not sound proofed or anything fancy like that.
We live in a pretty normal brick house. So far I've come across the Logitech x540s ($92 Aus off ebay inc postage) or the Creative T6160 ($104 Aus off ebay inc postage) or the Edifier M1550 ($140 Aus off ebay inc postage) although I'm open to other brands if they are easily sent and can be payed for via paypal. Its necessary for the system to be 5.1 surround sound because I dont think I can afford something 7.1 while still being decent quality. I NEED to be able to plug my MP3 (Creative Zen vision W 60GB) into the speakers.
I also need to be able to mount them on the wall. How would be the best way to do that ? I will be listening from the center of the room so one in each corner of the ceiling pointing down on me with the sub on the floor ? Or should I raise the sub to ear level ?
That brings me to my next question, can I get a 3.5mm cord, put in into the headphone jack of the MP3 and then into the headphone port on the logitechs and play my music through that ?
I've looked through brands such as Bose (apparently you guys dont like them though ;), yamaha, klipsch, altech lansing but they either dont do 5.1 computer style speakers or are stupidly expensive. I have heard the Logitech speakers at low to medium volume (about what I intend to have mine on about 80% of the time) and though they sounded really good for their size. I haven't heard any creeative speakers. Also this is going to sound really nooby but is it possible for speakers that only have one uuuummm I think they're called drivers (the actual circular things on the speakers) to sound as good as ones that have 2 ? Thanks guys, this will answer about a years worth of questions :)
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Grosser, your all over the place, but let's start with what's most important, what you need. You mentioned an HD set, yet you're discussing computer speakers, are we to assume your computer is feeding images to your TV?
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nah I've got a HD TV (i only asid that incase I needed a HDMI chord or something), computer speakers sound pretty good for the money and nah my t.v. is used exclusively for my Xbox 360. I just want my games and movies (that I play off my xbox 360 and eventually bluray) to be in surround sound. Hope you can make sense of my senseless ramblings ;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosser611
You cannot tell how something sounds by the specs. Hopefully some one will be around with experience with the brands you have selected.
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For your budget of around $120 US I would stay away from 5.1 sound. A decent 2.1 computer system is about all you can get for that price.
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Bud, I don't know much about using computer speakers for surround but I think you are missing a piece, something has to decode the digital signal. Getting a signal from your TV will not give you 5.1, you will only get 2 channel. You can only get 5.1 via a digital signal and it has to be output from something sending a 5.1 signal. The speakers you are looking at are meant to be connected to a computer where the computer will decode a signal in the sound card. There may be a system with a built in decoder but I'm not aware of one. The first link did say the system has a 5.1 inpput but I'm not sure what they mean by that and the second link didn't work for me. If they mean a 5.1 analog input and your Xbox offers 5.1 analog output you might be in business. A 5.1 analog in/out will have six RCA jacks. One for each 5 channels and one for sub. The system did look low powered and the power rating was at 10% distortion which is extremely high. But if you've heard them and satisfied...... This system is really meant to put around a desk or something, it isn't going to fill your room.
The cheapest you will get off is buying what's called a "home theater in a box" (HTIB), this is where the disc player, receiver/decoder and all speakers are sold in a package. The receiver/player being all one unit. I don't know what $150.00 in Austrailia will buy but you can't even get this type of system in $150.00 USD.
You might be able to get an older 5.1 receiver that is not HDMI since people are selling these in order to upgrade and you can usually find good deals. However, getting 5 channels of even budget speakers will probably run you over your budget.
So think about increasing budget or maybe going with only 2 channel until more money is available. 2 channel may not have all the surround effect but you'd benefit by much better sound.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMichael
You cannot tell how something sounds by the specs. Hopefully some one will be around with experience with the brands you have selected.
But you can to a degree, e.g. if something has a frequency response of 40hz ~ 20khz and another has a freqency response of say 50hz ~ 25hz you would be able to say which is better wouldn't you ? because I dont know what they mean. Like do I want a super high contrast between the first number and the second or will it sound better when they are very similar ? I need to know what makes good specs or at least what commonly used specs even mean in real terms. Thanks guys ;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffcin
For your budget of around $120 US I would stay away from 5.1 sound. A decent 2.1 computer system is about all you can get for that price.
All I want is clear sound as low decibals, do you really think I'll need something super high end to fullfill those requirements or will I be able to get by with mid range 5.1 ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosser611
All I want is clear sound as low decibals, do you really think I'll need something super high end to fullfill those requirements or will I be able to get by with mid range 5.1 ?
No, you don't need something "super high" but to decode a 5.1 signal your going to need a receiver, or with computer speakers a sound card. A 2.1 computer rig should be able to play directly from the headphone or RCA output of the TV. I have used 2.1 systems for TV and they are pretty darn good in the price range you looking at.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosser611
But you can to a degree, e.g. if something has a frequency response of 40hz ~ 20khz and another has a freqency response of say 50hz ~ 25hz you would be able to say which is better wouldn't you ? because I dont know what they mean. Like do I want a super high contrast between the first number and the second or will it sound better when they are very similar ? I need to know what makes good specs or at least what commonly used specs even mean in real terms. Thanks guys ;)
Specifications on computer speakers are mostly meaningless, as the basis of specification measurements often vary between manufacturers. Your best bet is either to try and demo some in a store or read up on reviews online.
Frequency response is the range of frequencies the speakers can play i.e how low and how high they can play. If you have one that claims 50Hz - 20KHz response and another 40Hz - 20KHz, the latter should be able to play a little lower. Again, don't get caught up on numbers with computer speakers, most often time they are misleading.
Personally I would go with Logitech, Klipsch or Creative's higher end stuff. They make semi decent speakers where as most others are rubbish.
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If you have to have a computer speaker system, go with the logitech 540's. They have very good sound for gaming and sound decent for computer music. Just make sure you have a stellar sound card. But like other's have said, what are you going to use to decode the signal to 5.1 for tv? Do have a very good sound card like an Xfi Fatality or something similar?
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Geoffcin - ah ok I'll keep that in mind if this 5.1 gear gets to expensive or too confusing.
audio amateur - Thanks for your opinion and insight, i'm leaning towards the X540s more and more now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven
If you have to have a computer speaker system, go with the logitech 540's. They have very good sound for gaming and sound decent for computer music. Just make sure you have a stellar sound card. But like other's have said, what are you going to use to decode the signal to 5.1 for tv? Do have a very good sound card like an Xfi Fatality or something similar?
uuummm yeh this is getting very confusing. I thought that these where just small speakers suited to pc gaming, I didn't realise that they would need to run through a computer. In the logitech ones it specifically says "game console adapter". Does that mean that it would have a built in, internal decoder ?
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/sp.../234&cl=au,en#
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No!!!! Go 2.1 for now and add more speakers later. Or just go with a pair of floor standers and add a sub and surround later but you will need some way to drive them such as a Home theater or multichannel receiver which you can probably pick up used for a decent price.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven
No!!!! Go 2.1 for now and add more speakers later. Or just go with a pair of floor standers and add a sub and surround later but you will need some way to drive them such as a Home theater or multichannel receiver which you can probably pick up used for a decent price.
I just realised that I might have something that could do the job. about a year or 2 ago I got an LG FB162 "mini home theater" system. On the front it says DIVX and Dolby Digital. Could this do the job of the home theater or multichannel reciever you speak of ? Would this have the decoder thing inside it ? Heres a front and back view.
http://www.cybertheater.com/wp-conte...cro-system.jpg
http://www.bidmadness.com.au/uploade...LG_FB162_4.png
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Grosser, that will do it. You will need to run a digital connection from your Xbox to your LG, either a single ended digital coaxial connection which will look like a single RCA cable or an optical digital. Either one will carry the 5.1 to the LG. You will also need to do the same from your cable/satelite receiver if you have any channels that will do 5.1. Usually the movie channels do (HBO/Showtime/Starz etc).
Does the LG have speakers as well? If so, I guess you are set without knowing it :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
Grosser, that will do it. You will need to run a digital connection from your Xbox to your LG, either a single ended digital coaxial connection which will look like a single RCA cable or an optical digital. Either one will carry the 5.1 to the LG. You will also need to do the same from your cable/satelite receiver if you have any channels that will do 5.1. Usually the movie channels do (HBO/Showtime/Starz etc).
Does the LG have speakers as well? If so, I guess you are set without knowing it :)
Yeah the LG has the 2 speakers pictured bot no more. So I should go to a reputable electrical store and say "I would like X1 single ended coaxial cable please" and that should be all the extra cables I need ?
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Does it have speaker connections for the center and rear? If not, I wonder if it's really 5.1. I couldn't tell anything from the pictures. Do you still have the manual or can you list the connections on the back?
Also, what outputs are on your Xbox?
You can just go to Radio Shack and ask them for a "coaxial digital cable" and they will hook you up. For what you are doing something inexpensive should be fine. You also should be able to find these at department stores. There's no need to go to a specialty shop and spend big dollars.
If we have to one of us can call the other and we'll get this ironed out.
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Xbox uses optical digital out
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In that case let's hope the LG has an optical input.
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I just remembered I set my mother's TV up with almost the exact same setup. I got her a very inexpensive LG DVD player/2.1 stereo unit. It's very basic, but I have the TV outputting via RCA jacks into the AUX in on the control/DVD unit. There's no other inputs digital or otherwise. However, the unit the OP has appears to have a toslink input.
FWIW; The system, (even though pretty cheap) sounds infinitely better than the crap speakers in the 42" flat screen. It don't play very loud,(at least by my standards) but dialog is much clearer, and you do get a hint of what "theater" is like even though it's 2.1 system.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
Does it have speaker connections for the center and rear? If not, I wonder if it's really 5.1. I couldn't tell anything from the pictures. Do you still have the manual or can you list the connections on the back?
Also, what outputs are on your Xbox?
You can just go to Radio Shack and ask them for a "coaxial digital cable" and they will hook you up. For what you are doing something inexpensive should be fine. You also should be able to find these at department stores. There's no need to go to a specialty shop and spend big dollars.
If we have to one of us can call the other and we'll get this ironed out.
;( No center speaker connection from what I can see. I got the owners manual out and the only ports on the whole thing are:
X1 USB
X1headphone
X2 Microphone
X1 Antenna terminal
X1 Auxiliary Input (one left and one right) (AUX) connector
and a "speaker terminal" which I counted physicaly has i think 2 ports both are full. Then not listen in my piece of **** manual are 4 eatra ports for video I think, they're coloured green, yellow, blue, and red. This is all the information I have on the supposed "micro home theater".
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Well, unfortunately, that will not do 5.1. I'm not sure why it says Dolby Digital on the front, a bit misleading. Dolby Digital is the brand of decoding if you will but it mostly is used to refer to 5.1. You can still come out of the L/R analog of the Xbox and plug into the AUX inputs to get some sound. But you are back to square one on getting 5.1. You will need something similar to the LG but it needs digital input and be able to decode 5.1 and have amplification and hook ups for all channels.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
Well, unfortunately, that will not do 5.1. I'm not sure why it says Dolby Digital on the front, a bit misleading. Dolby Digital is the brand of decoding if you will but it mostly is used to refer to 5.1. You can still come out of the L/R analog of the Xbox and plug into the AUX inputs to get some sound. But you are back to square one on getting 5.1. You will need something similar to the LG but it needs digital input and be able to decode 5.1 and have amplification and hook ups for all channels.
yeah i was hoping you weren;t going to come to that conclusion but at least I didn't buy the speakers then find out. Ok well its seams while computer speakers are good value for money and prety much exactly what I want performance wise, they will never work for me unless I buy a heaps of other crap which would probly jack the price up to a regular home theater system anyway. My solution, budget increase :)
hows $400 MAX Aus sound ? according to XE.com thats approx $361 American dollars. Would I be able to get some sort of decent sounding 5.1 surround sound with a sub for this price and if so should I just stay with the big mainstream brands, e.g. Panasonic, LG, Sony or are the smaller, more underground ones just as good (and most importantly able to compete price wise) ?
Couple of links to systems that meet that criteria would be helpfull guys, and while yeah we are back to square one its not like you guys haven't helped. You have answered heaps of my questions so we are still kinda making progress :wink5:
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Take a look at the Energy Take Classic 5.1 system
http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-spe...-33310963.html
You may be able to find it on sale for $400 US.
Or build a 3.1 system and add to it later.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven
I've seen that recomended before and I think it looks awesome and probly sounds the same but in Australia it is near impossible to find. I dont think anyone carries that brand in Aus. Also my post was $400 MAX Australian so yeh its still a little out of my price range. Whats a 3.1 system ? A center speaker, 2 sides and a sub ? I haven't seen any for sale ?!?
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The Energy set up is just speakers though.
One thing about All-In-One systems most come with built in DVD or Blu-ray, of course, DVD being cheaper. Is this redundant or can you use a disc player? Either way it may still be your cheapest way to go. I'd definitely stick with Panasonic, Sony etc. those who have a track record building these. The off brands you pretty much get what you pay for. You should be able to get a HTIB in your budget. If you didn't care about HDMI look for older models being blown or closed out.
A more upscale option would be to look for a used receiver that some one is selling because it don't have the latest gizmos like HDMI and mate it with a decent speaker package. If not wanting used receivers from the likes of Sherwood or Insignia are cheap.
You should at least hook up your LG to see what you think of the sound in stereo.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven
I've seen these reccomended on a few sites, whats meant to be so good about them ? I've found them brand new for $380 australian dollars (about $360 US), I'm very seriously considering buying them.
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I haven't heard the system but according to the review they are great sounding matched 5.1 set of speakers.
CAUTION: You will still need a receiver to drive the five satelite speakers. So the speakers will take what you said your budget was, then what?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
I haven't heard the system but according to the review they are great sounding matched 5.1 set of speakers.
CAUTION: You will still need a receiver to drive the five satelite speakers. So the speakers will take what you said your budget was, then what?
Ok well I found this website that has an absolute **** load of A/V recievers, Can you tell me a luist of features you would consider neccessary and which ones would be "nice to have". Thanks.
Heres the link.
http://www0.dealtime.com/xPP-home_au..._Receiver_hdmi
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First ask yourself what you will be doing with it:
* Do you have a HDTV? If so, am I happy with using component video or do I want HDMI? A new receiver will most likely have HDMI.
* Will I eventually have Blu-ray? If so, the HD audio decoding will be important (Dolby Tru-HD & DTS-MA).
* Will I be interested in "auto speaker set up"? If new at the HT thing this could be handy. It will set up your speaker levels, delay & some even do some room equalizing.
You won't need things like "2nd zone" or maybe not XM radio or HD radio compatible. Many receivers are pretty much the same with features. Another thing that is probably not necessary is video upsampling. IF, you use HDMI AND had a couple other components that don't use HD, like a VCR, upsampling in order to pass it via HDMI could be something to look for.
To get all the current bells & whistles with good performance I'd recommend that Onkyo SR-607. On a budget it looks like the Pioneer 819 will do what you want.
I'd recommend going to some of the retail sites and reading the reviews of users. Let me know if any questions on a specific feature.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
First ask yourself what you will be doing with it:
* Do you have a HDTV? If so, am I happy with using component video or do I want HDMI? A new receiver will most likely have HDMI.
* Will I eventually have Blu-ray? If so, the HD audio decoding will be important (Dolby Tru-HD & DTS-MA).
* Will I be interested in "auto speaker set up"? If new at the HT thing this could be handy. It will set up your speaker levels, delay & some even do some room equalizing.
You won't need things like "2nd zone" or maybe not XM radio or HD radio compatible. Many receivers are pretty much the same with features. Another thing that is probably not necessary is video upsampling. IF, you use HDMI AND had a couple other components that don't use HD, like a VCR, upsampling in order to pass it via HDMI could be something to look for.
To get all the current bells & whistles with good performance I'd recommend that Onkyo SR-607. On a budget it looks like the Pioneer 819 will do what you want.
I'd recommend going to some of the retail sites and reading the reviews of users. Let me know if any questions on a specific feature.
In my very first post it says I have a full HD t.v. so yeah I'll need HDMI, I'm getting a blu-ray within the next few weeks so I guess yes I will need HD Audio decoding although is that only neccessary if I get the blu-ray enabled speakers because they're too expensive. I think the speaker set up would be something I'd like toplay with myself but it'd be nice to be pointed in the right direction so 50/50 for that one...could live without. How about on a super tight budget like I am would the Sony STR-DH500 tick the same boxes as the Pioneer ? Reasn I ask is the cheapest I can find the Pioneer is $719, cheapest I can find the Sony $225, the sony has HDMI and like 7 different dolby decoding types although it doesn't mention specifically Dolby Tru-HD or DTS-MA like you've mentioned. Those dot points where EXACTLY what I was after, perfect post Mr Peabody (nice name too :smilewinkgrin:
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I don't know what you mean by "blu-ray enabled speaker". You just need a regular 5.1 speaker set up. that Energy Take 5 would be great.
$719.00 for a receiver that shows a price of $245.00 U.S. dollars is crazy.
Don't buy the DH500 unless it's absolutely all you can afford. It has HDMI but only passes a video signal, NO AUDIO, which defeats the purpose of having HDMI which is BOTH audio and video. If you can swing it the DH700 is a true full function HDMI and also adds the auto set up. Shame on Sony for even making a receiver like the DH500, I'm sure many a unsuspecting consumers got burned with this one. I guess if that Pioneer was $719.00 the Onkyo must have been over $1k. I'm not a Sony fan but it does show a 2 year warranty if you had any problems with it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
I don't know what you mean by "blu-ray enabled speaker". You just need a regular 5.1 speaker set up. that Energy Take 5 would be great.
$719.00 for a receiver that shows a price of $245.00 U.S. dollars is crazy.
Don't buy the DH500 unless it's absolutely all you can afford. It has HDMI but only passes a video signal, NO AUDIO, which defeats the purpose of having HDMI which is BOTH audio and video. If you can swing it the DH700 is a true full function HDMI and also adds the auto set up. Shame on Sony for even making a receiver like the DH500, I'm sure many a unsuspecting consumers got burned with this one. I guess if that Pioneer was $719.00 the Onkyo must have been over $1k. I'm not a Sony fan but it does show a 2 year warranty if you had any problems with it.
I dont really know what a meant by blu-ray enabled speakers either...I just mean like when I look through catalogues and see "blue-ray home theater" and its got the speakers with it, thats the speakers I mean. I thought they where different somehow or something because they're sooooo much more expensive. Well I did some more trawling through eBay and found a Sony STR-DH700 "home theather reciever" for an amazing $277 Australian dollars including postage. Thing is, its American. Are these things region coded like DVD or Blu-ray players or will it be ok to buy overseas ?
haha well I couldn't find the Onkyo 607 but the 606 was $1,031.00 and the 706 was $1,637 so yeah not exactly cheap (and I'm guessing reasonable pricing either). So will that sony reciever do the HD audio decoding ? if so I might have to pick me one up as it seems like a price that wont last....same as the speakers though...and I need to get a blu ray while its still on sale then I got chrsitmas presents to buy and im going on a holiday before that....all on a wage of about $100 per week ;( how is this fair, haha
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What you were calling "blu ray enabled speakers" is what I was calling "home theater in a box". This is more expensive because it's the player, receiver & speakers all in a bundle. If not needing huge power and you have a small room this may be an option. Although the separate receiver and speakers should provide some better performance and more flexibility.
If Austrailia isn't 220 volts from the wall like Europe an American DH-700 should be fine. Now the Blu-ray player may be a different story as I'm not sure what "region" you would be in. For instance, U.S. & Canada are "Region 1". This is usually found on the movie box or if you look at Amazon it will show the Region. Some discs are Region free. Most DVD/Blu-ray players in the U.S. only play Region 1. LG seems to be a player that will do more than one region. Well, now that I think of it Europe also was set up on PAL which is a system for video where the U.S. was on NTSC, now we are digital and ATSC but I have no idea how this would work for Austrailia or if it matters. So if no one else chimes in you may want to call or email Sony and tell them you are thinking of buying one of their receivers and make sure it will work fine in your country.
Maybe forget Sony, the DH-700 DOES NOT have the decoding. I couldn't believe it, so glad I double checked. Check this review, not so good: http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers...-33539695.html
How expensive are the "home theater in a box, (HTIB)", keep in mind this could be only one purchase that includes everything, no buying this or that, so you can include your receiver/speaker/player funds all together when looking at the HTIB. I'm afraid this may be what you have to look at to get all you want at a price you can afford. No brands sold at a regular price in Austrailia?
It's a shame those Onkyo are off the chart, the 606 has everything you would need and more.
Here, what's this Pioneer VSX-919 cost in Austrailia? It has verything you will need and supposed to be low price, HD audio, HDMI, auto speaker set up etc. Take a look: http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Pi...SX-919AH.shtml
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Ah ok fair enough. I actually thought it would be cheaper because your buying lots at once...hhhmmm :s
Yeah we use pretty standard stuff over here so we wouldn't be 220 volts. Yeah thats ok I'm buying the Blu-ray locally. I'm pretty sure we're Region 2 (Oceana or something). Region free blu-rays are like over a grand still. We're on PAL over here to so yeah I hope it doesn't matter. Yeah ringing Sony could be the go.
GAH ! I can't believe it, everytime I find a cheap reciever that has all the stuff I need it turns out to have something missing and the fun begins again ;(
HTIB's here (including blu-ray) are $999 + (this will buy me a LG 5.1 1000 RWS)
It looks like i'm already going to be up for around $600-700 for the energy/something combo so are the HTIB's worth stretching the money ? Well I just use shopbot.com but even they dont always have everything....they just show prices of stocked items from stores all around Australia. No brands sold at a regular price in Austrailia?
For the Pioneer VSX-919 prices range from $865 to over $1,100. Basically anything I cant find on eBay and have to search a regular store for is grosly overpriced.
I dont know if your allowed to post eBay links on this forum but maybe searching that could be the go as I always buy and sell stuff off there. Love that place :)
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The Energy Take 5 is JUST speakers. Good quality but ony speakers. You'd still need a receiver and a player. So add up the Take 5 + a Blu-ray player + a receiver and see what it comes too. The LG is all of that in one package or set up. The trade off is quality. The HTIB will not be as high quality as stand alone components. The main difference would probably be in the quality of the speakers. So for the $999.00 you could get everything.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
The Energy Take 5 is JUST speakers. Good quality but ony speakers. You'd still need a receiver and a player. So add up the Take 5 + a Blu-ray player + a receiver and see what it comes too. The LG is all of that in one package or set up. The trade off is quality. The HTIB will not be as high quality as stand alone components. The main difference would probably be in the quality of the speakers. So for the $999.00 you could get everything.
$1,097 and I could get the energy speakers (with no sub), Panasonic BD60 and Sony STR-DH 800. I think for the extra $100 I'll be getting a lot better components.
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Will the DH800 do all you want? If so, it would be a much better set up than a HTIB.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
Will the DH800 do all you want? If so, it would be a much better set up than a HTIB.
Well I was hoping you would check it out, but its second from top in that range from Sony so I'm guesing its pretty good quality. It DOES do Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio which is what we discussed as necessary and its got four HDMI inputs and one HDMI output which could deffnately be handy for the blu-ray too. Before we seal the deal and decide this si the right A/V Reciever for me though I just thought I'd let you know some prices of others:
$423.39 Onkyo TX-SR07
$380.85 Onkyo TX-8255
$390.36 Yamaha HTR-6130BL - Refurbished
$403 Yamaha HTR-6140 - Refurbished
$392.33 Yamaha HTR-6140
$333.81 Yamaha HTR-6230
$434.80 Harman Kardon AVR-154
$363.35 Sherwood RD-6513
$429.16 Sony STR-DH800
$483.07 Pioneer VSX-819H-K
If not mentioned these items are new, include shipping and are in Australian currency. I just compiled a list of A/V Recievers that where in my budget, the only ones whos specs I have looked up on their website are the sony ones. I had to go to work before I could do any others. Just after your opinion like always :)
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