• 02-08-2005, 06:25 AM
    dopefish
    1500$ for floorstanded - need more suggestions
    Hi ! My name is Jessy and I live in Quebec, Canada. There are not to much hi-end stores over here, and I'm in the market for buying a full range 2 speakers. My budget is 1500$US (2000-2500$ CAN$). My room is 16 X 20. The favorite speakers I have heard so far is the B&W DM604S3. I would like to see some suggestions in my price range before I make the purchase. The B&W is near perfect for me, but I could take some more warmness and life :) (read, mid-bass?). I currently listen to psychedelic trance music, which could be considered as a mix of techno and classical music. So I definately need a full range speakers, because the most important thing for this type of music is the mid-bass.. (where the bassline is at).

    I'll be using those speakers for music only with a avr635 harman./kardon receiver

    I currently have access to these (and only these) brands of hi-fi electronics in my city:

    ANTIQUE SOUND LAB?
    AUDIO RESEARCH*
    CALIFORNIA AUDIO LABS*
    GRADO
    KEF*
    LIBERTY
    MAGNEPAN*
    MB QUART
    MILLER & KREISEL*
    MIT*
    MONITOR AUDIO*
    MUSICAL FIDELITY*
    NAD*
    NAIM*
    NILES*
    PARADIGM
    REGA?
    ROTEL*
    SONANCE*
    SONUS FABER*

    - ACOUSTIC ENERGY
    (site officiel)
    - ARCAM
    (site officiel)
    - B&W
    (site officiel)
    - BEYERDYNAMIC
    (site officiel)
    - BELL'OGGETTI
    (site officiel)
    - CARDAS
    (site officiel)
    - CHANNEL PLUS
    (site officiel)
    - CLASSÉ*AUDIO
    (site officiel)
    - DRAPER
    (site officiel)
    -ELITE
    (site officiel)
    - GRADO
    (site officiel)
    - INFOCUS
    (site officiel)
    - KIMBERKABLE
    (site officiel)
    - LG
    (site officiel)
    - LOEWE
    (site officiel)
    - MARANTZ
    (site officiel)
    -MATRIX
    (site officiel)
    - McINTOSH
    (site officiel)
    - PANAMAX
    (site officiel)
    - PASSION AUDIO
    - PIONEER
    (site officiel)
    - PROAC
    (site officiel)
    - PRO-JECT
    (site officiel)
    - PSB
    (site officiel)
    - X10
    (site officiel)
    - ROTEL
    (site officiel)
    - RUSSOUND
    (site officiel)
    - SALAMANDER
    (site officiel)
    - SENNHEISER
    (site officiel)
    - STAX
    (site officiel)
    - STRAIGHT WIRE
    (site officiel)
    - TEAC
    (site officiel)
    - ULTRALINK
    (site officiel)
    - VERITY AUDIO
    (site officiel)
    - VIDIKRON
    (site officiel)
    - WBT
    (site officiel)
    - XANTEC
    (site officiel)


    Any suggestions ?

    Thanx !

    (and sorry about my poor english)
  • 02-08-2005, 08:36 AM
    dopefish
    Someone suggested me to audition some Definitive Tech BP series to get a warmer, larger, 3D sound.

    But no one carries this brand in my city. Do you think that I should make that 6 hours trip to listen to these models >?

    Thanx !
  • 02-08-2005, 11:17 AM
    20to20K
    I was in your boat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dopefish
    Hi ! My name is Jessy and I live in Quebec, Canada. There are not to much hi-end stores over here, and I'm in the market for buying a full range 2 speakers. My budget is 1500$US (2000-2500$ CAN$). My room is 16 X 20. The favorite speakers I have heard so far is the B&W DM604S3. I would like to see some suggestions in my price range before I make the purchase. The B&W is near perfect for me, but I could take some more warmness and life :) (read, mid-bass?). I currently listen to psychedelic trance music, which could be considered as a mix of techno and classical music. So I definately need a full range speakers, because the most important thing for this type of music is the mid-bass.. (where the bassline is at).

    I'll be using those speakers for music only with a avr635 harman./kardon receiver

    I currently have access to these (and only these) brands of hi-fi electronics in my city:

    ANTIQUE SOUND LAB?
    AUDIO RESEARCH*
    CALIFORNIA AUDIO LABS*
    GRADO
    KEF*
    LIBERTY
    MAGNEPAN*
    MB QUART
    MILLER & KREISEL*
    MIT*
    MONITOR AUDIO*
    MUSICAL FIDELITY*
    NAD*
    NAIM*
    NILES*
    PARADIGM
    REGA?
    ROTEL*
    SONANCE*
    SONUS FABER*

    - ACOUSTIC ENERGY
    (site officiel)
    - ARCAM
    (site officiel)
    - B&W
    (site officiel)
    - BEYERDYNAMIC
    (site officiel)
    - BELL'OGGETTI
    (site officiel)
    - CARDAS
    (site officiel)
    - CHANNEL PLUS
    (site officiel)
    - CLASSÉ*AUDIO
    (site officiel)
    - DRAPER
    (site officiel)
    -ELITE
    (site officiel)
    - GRADO
    (site officiel)
    - INFOCUS
    (site officiel)
    - KIMBERKABLE
    (site officiel)
    - LG
    (site officiel)
    - LOEWE
    (site officiel)
    - MARANTZ
    (site officiel)
    -MATRIX
    (site officiel)
    - McINTOSH
    (site officiel)
    - PANAMAX
    (site officiel)
    - PASSION AUDIO
    - PIONEER
    (site officiel)
    - PROAC
    (site officiel)
    - PRO-JECT
    (site officiel)
    - PSB
    (site officiel)
    - X10
    (site officiel)
    - ROTEL
    (site officiel)
    - RUSSOUND
    (site officiel)
    - SALAMANDER
    (site officiel)
    - SENNHEISER
    (site officiel)
    - STAX
    (site officiel)
    - STRAIGHT WIRE
    (site officiel)
    - TEAC
    (site officiel)
    - ULTRALINK
    (site officiel)
    - VERITY AUDIO
    (site officiel)
    - VIDIKRON
    (site officiel)
    - WBT
    (site officiel)
    - XANTEC
    (site officiel)


    Any suggestions ?

    Thanx !

    (and sorry about my poor english)

    About 6 months ago I was looking for the exact same thing as you...$1500 floorstanders that sounded and looked good. (Looks may be more important to me than most people when it comes to audio equipment). Having said that I auditioned the following brands:

    Def Techs
    Polks
    B&W
    Paradigms
    Sonas Faber
    Infinity
    Canton

    Based on my listening I chose the Polk LSi15's at exactly $1500 a pair. I perferred the following models:

    B&W 703's
    B&W 9NHT
    Paradigms Studio 100s
    Sona Faber's Grand Pianos

    But all of those were $500 to $2000 more than the polks and I just didn't have the money.
    All of those brands had lesser models closer in price to the Polks (including the B&W 6 series you mentioned) but I thought the polks sounded better...particulary in the mid-bass area. Very clear and clean highs as well...a great speaker for acoustic pop and jazz.
    A word of warning...if you listen to the LSi15's make sure they are properly driven. A
    bargain basement AVR will not do them justice. They are 4 ohm speakers with a sensitivity of only 87db so they need juice to sound good. A top AVR or a 2 channel hi current amp with at least 200RMS is recommended.

    I personally did not care for the Def Techs...they sounded thin and airy...same for
    the Polk RTis series (which is slightly cheaper than the LSi's). Infinity Kappa 600 sounded good...but not worth $2500. If I was spending $2500 I would have gotten the Paradigms.
    The Fabers sounded awesome...but they were $3500...at that price I would have gotten
    the B&W' 703's at $3000.

    I didn't care for the Cantons either. I hear Axioms are good too...but I've never heard them.

    Hope this helps...
  • 02-08-2005, 11:46 AM
    PAT.P
    Floorstanding
    I like Paradigm ,Energy and Dahlquist .You could go to this website they are in Ottawa they sell Energy and Dahlquist they have a great sale on these www.audioshop.on.ca I have Dahlquist Qx9 and are great ! Pat.P
  • 02-08-2005, 12:19 PM
    Florian
    This would be my list

    Magnepan (1.6 used)
    Naim
    Rega
    Sonus Faber

    look if you can find VMPS
  • 02-08-2005, 07:45 PM
    RGA
    Where are you located?

    The B&W 604 for the type f music you listen to would probably be a reasonable choice...but depending where you are I might be able to offer you some others to listen to...a lot fo stuff on your list won't be much different from eachother.

    I'd also look at the used market.
  • 02-09-2005, 12:37 AM
    hertz
    See if you can audition the PROAC studio 125's
    Hi,
    See if you can audition the PROAC studio 125's. They are in a different league.They are my current bench mark for speakers around 2k$. The DM series B&W are entry level and not as refined as the Proacs. The proacs go down to 30 hz.
  • 02-09-2005, 05:07 AM
    dopefish
    Funny thing ! I already listened to the PROAC 125 :) If I was looking for the perfect speaker to listen to classical music, I think that would be my choice; but..

    Downside where; ineficient speaker (87db) ; I would need more than my 90watt h/k receiver to drive them correctly, because psychedelic trance music is very hard on the bass, thus need a lot of juice. Hence, I need a very efficient speaker (let's say 90db would be really nice !). They are not cheap also, 2K$+ :(

    Also, I've found that most 2way floorstander in this price range had a really hard time pumping hard bass AND melodies+vocals (mid, mid-bass) at the same time.

    I have come to the conclusion that by the type of music I listen, a dedicated driver for the bass would be more efficient. And since most kik & bass is around 100, 200hz, I noticed that the bookshelf/combo was not for me, also...

    But, I could be wrong...

    Some 3 way floorstander in the sub 2K$ to suggest ? (1.5$K would be ideal, lol )
  • 02-09-2005, 05:11 AM
    Florian
    The VMPS 626R goes pretty low and loud as hell. Check it out, its efficent too with 90db

    http://www.vmpseurope.com/e/p-626r.htm

    http://www.vmpseurope.com/pics/626rpb.jpg
  • 02-09-2005, 08:11 AM
    Pat D
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dopefish
    Hi ! My name is Jessy and I live in Quebec, Canada. There are not to much hi-end stores over here, and I'm in the market for buying a full range 2 speakers. My budget is 1500$US (2000-2500$ CAN$). My room is 16 X 20. The favorite speakers I have heard so far is the B&W DM604S3. I would like to see some suggestions in my price range before I make the purchase. The B&W is near perfect for me, but I could take some more warmness and life :) (read, mid-bass?). I currently listen to psychedelic trance music, which could be considered as a mix of techno and classical music. So I definately need a full range speakers, because the most important thing for this type of music is the mid-bass.. (where the bassline is at).

    I'll be using those speakers for music only with a avr635 harman./kardon receiver

    I currently have access to these (and only these) brands of hi-fi electronics in my city:

    ANTIQUE SOUND LAB?
    AUDIO RESEARCH*
    CALIFORNIA AUDIO LABS*
    GRADO
    KEF*
    LIBERTY
    MAGNEPAN*
    MB QUART
    MILLER & KREISEL*
    MIT*
    MONITOR AUDIO*
    MUSICAL FIDELITY*
    NAD*
    NAIM*
    NILES*
    PARADIGM
    REGA?
    ROTEL*
    SONANCE*
    SONUS FABER*

    - ACOUSTIC ENERGY
    (site officiel)
    - ARCAM
    (site officiel)
    - B&W
    (site officiel)
    - BEYERDYNAMIC
    (site officiel)
    - BELL'OGGETTI
    (site officiel)
    - CARDAS
    (site officiel)
    - CHANNEL PLUS
    (site officiel)
    - CLASS�*AUDIO
    (site officiel)
    - DRAPER
    (site officiel)
    -ELITE
    (site officiel)
    - GRADO
    (site officiel)
    - INFOCUS
    (site officiel)
    - KIMBERKABLE
    (site officiel)
    - LG
    (site officiel)
    - LOEWE
    (site officiel)
    - MARANTZ
    (site officiel)
    -MATRIX
    (site officiel)
    - McINTOSH
    (site officiel)
    - PANAMAX
    (site officiel)
    - PASSION AUDIO
    - PIONEER
    (site officiel)
    - PROAC
    (site officiel)
    - PRO-JECT
    (site officiel)
    - PSB
    (site officiel)
    - X10
    (site officiel)
    - ROTEL
    (site officiel)
    - RUSSOUND
    (site officiel)
    - SALAMANDER
    (site officiel)
    - SENNHEISER
    (site officiel)
    - STAX
    (site officiel)
    - STRAIGHT WIRE
    (site officiel)
    - TEAC
    (site officiel)
    - ULTRALINK
    (site officiel)
    - VERITY AUDIO
    (site officiel)
    - VIDIKRON
    (site officiel)
    - WBT
    (site officiel)
    - XANTEC
    (site officiel)


    Any suggestions ?

    Thanx !

    (and sorry about my poor english)

    Your English is better than my French, I'm sure. Your grammar is fine. Instead of "warmness" I would use "warmth" but that is a very subtle point.

    I do suggest that in the long term, the midrange, treble and highs are more important than the bass response. So if it comes to a choice between a better midrange and highs and a little better bass, go for the former. You can always get a subwoofer later.

    I hve been impressed with PSB Stratus which for my purposes outclass the Paradigm Reference line for smoothness and are right up there with the Proacs, Sonus Fabers, and the big B & W's in my opionion. I bought the Stratus Minis which are too small and insensitive for your purposes.

    The Stratus Bronze is the most sensitive of the Stratus line and has useful bass down to 30 hz. It is still listed on the specifications page on the PSB web site but I have an idea they are phasing it out of the line. All of the Stratus are 4 ohm speakers but your HK receiver should be able to handle that. It's the only one of the Stratus line I haven't heard, but the PSB Stratus speakers I have heard do have an excellent midrange and highs.

    However, the Paradigm Reference speakers are very good with wide dispersion. They tend to be more sensitive. They have a good midrange. They tend to be balanced somewhat brighter than the PSB Stratus. I have heard the Studio 40, v. 3, and the Studio 100, v. 3. Most recently, I had a chance to listen to the Studio 40 at some length and it was quite good. I listen mostly to classical music and it did seem to me that there was a bit of roughness in the upper strings which my speakers don't have. The Studio 60, v. 3, impressed the reviewer in Stereophile quite a lot and they measure very well.

    http://stereophile.com/loudspeakerre...gm/index4.html

    I don't have a canadian price but it's probably more than $1500.

    I haven't heard the B & W 600 series but they have a gooe reputation. You are the person who has to listen to them and so you should pick speakers you like.

    I see Mission, Sonus Faber, and Proac on you list. I have heard some of their speakers in the past and they can make good ones.

    You seem to have quite a good selection of speakers available in Quebec City. Anyway, you could always shop in Montreal, which is a very large city with even more selection. It's somewhat closer than Ottawa. If you want really sensitive speakers, try out some of the Klipsch models.

    Here is a link to an old article on "How To Judge Loudspeakers" by the late Julian Hirsch, who used to do most of the equipment reviews for Stereo Review. It is somewhat out of date as it is prior to the compact disc, which can give you master tape sound quality, and has no difficulty at all in reproducing deep bass (though most music still doesn't have much). Also, we have available much better equipment and methods for measuring the performance of loudspeakers nowadays. But it still contains excellent advice.

    http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/ass...9200314639.pdf
  • 02-09-2005, 10:16 AM
    dopefish
    Thanx a lot for all your inputs !

    I'm taking notes of all your suggestions. Next weekend I'll probably go out and audition some more speakers that you have suggested to me.

    Would you guy recommend me to bring my own receiver & cd player ?

    Again, thanx to everyone.

    I'll come back with my impressions later if I make my final decision :)
  • 02-09-2005, 11:15 AM
    Florian
    If you can bring the H/K etc... than go ahead and do so. Good luck ;)
  • 02-09-2005, 11:20 AM
    Pat D
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dopefish
    Thanx a lot for all your inputs !

    I'm taking notes of all your suggestions. Next weekend I'll probably go out and audition some more speakers that you have suggested to me.

    Would you guy recommend me to bring my own receiver & cd player ?

    Again, thanx to everyone.

    I'll come back with my impressions later if I make my final decision :)

    No. The source material, the listening room, the speaker positioning, and the speakers make the most difference to the sound. It's too much trouble for things which should make very little difference. Unless the store doesn't have comparable products, solid state, and roughly the same power ratings, there should be no problems. As long as the namplifiers are operating within their design limits, they should sound very much the same and accurate CD players (which is most of them) sound very much the same. If it worries you, you can always try them out on the speakers you think you like most, but I certainly wouldn't carry your receiver and CD player to each store. It's a lot of trouble for both you and the staff in the store. You should have a chance to listen to the speakers on your short list at home, anyway.

    I don't have measurements for review of your particular receiver, but H-K receivers usually have an excellent amplifier section. It should drive most speakers very well.
  • 02-09-2005, 08:11 PM
    RGA
    I have 95db Wharfedale speakers 8 ohm min horn tweeters. Had the top of the line Pioneer Elite -- it wasn't enough at 125 watts per channel RMS 20hz-20khz --- and the watts were rated full bandwidth not the usual 1khz you see now. It had a large power amp secion with massive caps a copper chasy and Bryston like THD numbers. It was an expensive glorified paper weight. My new Marantz at $300cdn the 4300 I would not bother with for two channel music.

    I would not judge 2 channel standmounts - the AN J Or E has more bass than the 604S3 with ease will both play deeper than the 604. The only B&W than can beat the E for bass depth is the model Nautilus at $40kUS. And bass quality is somthing too few have heard.

    One speaker you may really want to look, because the Audio Notes are way above your price range is the new Gershan Acoustics Cameleon - It looks great and has bass to 32hz - also bettering the 604. I have not heard this particular Gershman but at $1700.00 you have to try and find it and see what you think - it only has an 8 inch woofer just like the Audio Note's and it too is a two way .

    He addresses the bass and notices the sae things I complain about. The Gershman X1 standmount was very accomplished but needs a bit more bass - the Cameleon may be a terrific speaker that goes under a lot of folks radar - oddly the Opera Sauvage was the only one that never sounded right in the room and it's their flagship - but not all flagships are the best the company makes.

    http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...2/gershman.htm
    I stress you should not buy based on this review or any review but it may have the balls you require and I use it to illustrate that there is more to bass than how many drivers. The AN E is a two way standmount and it has plenty of bass - for trance at least if Delerium counts.

    The Cameleon is simply cheaper and I happened to stumble across it. http://www.gershmanacoustics.com/cameleon.html
  • 02-15-2005, 10:25 PM
    evil__betty
    A couple brands that I recommend:

    Jamo E875 ($2000 CAN)
    Jamo E855 ($1300 CAN) - slightly smaller than the E875
    Dalhquist QX10AB (support the local boys - made in Missisauga, Ontario)
    Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 and up

    The bass response from the Jamo's are amazing on their own for the price and the 8" sub to match them is just deadly.
  • 02-16-2005, 02:39 AM
    drseid
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dopefish
    Funny thing ! I already listened to the PROAC 125 :) If I was looking for the perfect speaker to listen to classical music, I think that would be my choice; but..

    Downside where; ineficient speaker (87db) ; I would need more than my 90watt h/k receiver to drive them correctly, because psychedelic trance music is very hard on the bass, thus need a lot of juice. Hence, I need a very efficient speaker (let's say 90db would be really nice !). They are not cheap also, 2K$+ :(

    Also, I've found that most 2way floorstander in this price range had a really hard time pumping hard bass AND melodies+vocals (mid, mid-bass) at the same time.

    I have come to the conclusion that by the type of music I listen, a dedicated driver for the bass would be more efficient. And since most kik & bass is around 100, 200hz, I noticed that the bookshelf/combo was not for me, also...

    But, I could be wrong...

    Some 3 way floorstander in the sub 2K$ to suggest ? (1.5$K would be ideal, lol )

    You may want to look at the Tyler Acoustics Freedom F-4 floorstander at $1650... The downside is that you have to purchase Internet direct (and Tyler is located in KY, US, so duties may apply to CA as well as shipping costs). The upside is that you get *a lot* of speaker for your money, and would most likely not find better at that price point. The F-4 uses the same SEAS drivers found in the lower to midrange priced Joseph Audio speakers. The F-4s have an efficiency rating of 89 db, and get down to a *real* 30 hz. The Tyler web page is at www.tyleracoustics.com .


    ---Dave
  • 02-16-2005, 12:41 PM
    20to20K
    I posted this earlier today on another thread...
    I don't know if you still in the market, but this is what happened to me yesterday:

    If anyone is in the market for $1500 floorstanders I heard a pair yesterday that knocked me off my feet. I was at my local audio shop checking out what they had (to see if the upgrade bug would bite) and he let me hear these modest sized QUAD 22L($1600) floor standers that sounded incredible. The bass response out of the speakers were stunning...I literally checked every sub in his showroom to make sure he wasn't trying to pull a fast one. The spec sheet claims they're rated down to 30 Hz (+- 3db) and after listening I believe it! I compared it to the B&W 704's($2200) and Thiel1.6($2300) and it blew them out of the water. It's not just the bass either...across the entire spectrum the frequency reponse and sound stage was excellent. They were being driven by a Rotel reciever...but so were the other speakers.

    Funny thing was I wasn't familir with QUAD but the dealer said they are a Brit company known for Electostatic speakers but have now gone conventional.
    Just as amazing as the sound was the quality piano gloss wood finishes.
    Even put the B&W's to shame. I don't know how they do it at that price.

    If you're in the market for great inexpensive speakers check them out. They also make a smaller floor stander, book shelves you can use as surrounds and a $500 center as well. I'm seriously thinking about selling off all my Polks and changing up! They were the only speakers in the group that I thought sounded better than my LSi15's. (Fortunetely he had those in his showroom as well so I was able to compare). The weird part was the Quads were the only speakers that had a LOWER list price as well. Go figure.

    Has anyone else had experience with these speakers? What are your impressions?
    __________________