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  1. #26
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_Klim
    And I've been here for years and can tell you that I think I know what you think and if that's what you think then you are correct.
    Actually you dont, and you never will because you are not there yet.
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  2. #27
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    The thing is Flo of all the people on this forum while we have argued i can relate a little more to you than some other people -- ignoring the equipment for the time being -- I understand what an up hill battle it is to discuss with people who have not "EXPERIENCED" what you have heard the SAME way you experienced it. In other words I get what it is like to hear something that in one's opinion compekltely destrys everything they have ever heard by such a margin that it would be like the World Series Boston Red Sox playing a 5 year old little girls team (and the last place 5 year old little girl's team).

    So you come onto a forum and you want to tell everyone that holy crap I've been listening for 15 years to all this stuff and it's all a pile of crap what you've been told by the press and marketers and here is the "panacea" of music reproduction that actually sounds "right" --- never of course thinking that people will look at you as some sort of liar shill or every other name in the book. So I get your "passion" for your equipment and in fact I'm probably the ONLY person on this entire board who does becuase you and i may be the only people who like our systems to such a degree that we want to tell everyone about it. We may disagree on the "system" itself but it's no different than me saying Schindler's List is the best American film and some other guy arguing for Citizen Kane - The film that gives you the ultimate life changing cathartic experience is the one you're probably going to think is best.

    What I came to realize is that all it's going to lead to is endless arguments. many people will believe that because they can only afford $300.00 on speakers that anyone who spends more wasted their money - or $3000.00 etc. Is it surprising to you?

    There are people who believe that $500.00 turntable set-up is better than the best CD player in the world - that any speaker that is not a horn is crap, that without tubes you lose. There are others who think if you don't spend $50,000 you have nothing worthwhile to listen to.

    There is a problem with using hi-fi and high-end. I have made the mistake several times of using these terms and i fear I learned them from the magazines -- they mean next to nothing. I tried to illustrate thet hi-fi is a technically very well made solid product in engineering terms but often a mecahnical and unengaging presentation that to me isn;t musical. High End I tried to explain as possibly being just as good or better in engineering terms or possibly even worse but sound organic rich and never fatiguing dry and uninvolving.

    Even with that one gets into even bigger trouble because you're perceived as insulting everyone's decisions - ask anyone here about me and Paradigm --- I've attempted to avoid getting into flames with these people - because I've realised that chances are if they love those speakers they just do not hear it the same way I do -- I've had roughly 5 Paradigm owners take me up on going to Soundhounds and listening to the speakers I've suggested all five agree with me 4 have since bought them and the other is exploring several other options because if a no name can do that to the conglomorate maybe other no names can also do it.

    You are not going to convince people you are right no one is all of the time and not everyone is going to like what you propose they should. I don't see this forum as a problem -- if a person has $300.00 to spend then don;t try and get them to spend $50,000.00. You suggest what you think is good for $300.00 -- if you don't think there is anything good at $300.00 don't answer the thread

    I take a tremendous beating on this forum from practically everyone and I have said several times that's it I'm going to get off here -- but the satisfaction of seeing a person who simply auditioned a suggestion i made and know they are way happier now than they were with the usual stuff keeps me here to get blasted called names.

    I have learned largely to word myself slightly differently -- I use Woochifer as a guage in fact about what i've said -- I figure if he is not blasting me -- then I've successfuly worded my post in a way that gets my opinion across without coming across as a snot...Since April I figure for the msot part I'm wording myself a bit better. Unfortunately they closed the last thread so I could not reply to him.

    Good Luck with wherever you go.
    Thanks RGA, you actually understood my point exactly and i know how you and i feel about out audio systems and we know exactly what the differences are between HIFI and High End.

    Thanks
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  3. #28
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixadude
    Wow, I just got here, but I definately feel your pain.

    My dad always sez, "Everybody's got a monkey on their back". He was a music teacher during my childhood, fwiw.

    I'm a professional soundman since 1977, when I was in my mid 20s. Sometimes it's hard to relate, but when and if I finally can, sometimes it's worth it. And other times it's a long dry spell.

    I don't have endless resources to committ to my personal playback system in my dwelling, nor do I have a space to modify to my liking (I recently lost my house). Does that mean I can't make some pretty impressive noise here? Absolutely not. I'm also a lifelong artist and take great artistic license with my equipment. But I always appreciate seeing where somebody has taken the time, money, and commitment necessary to achive absolute nirvana, and i guess that's why I'm lurking around here now.

    All that being said, do what you gotta do. Sorry you might not be around.

    Gene
    The difference is that YOU have the knowledge. You wouldnt take a 300$ bookshelf speaker and say its only a little bit worse than a Watt Puppy or a Apogee Duetta. You know the difference and you can apreciate the difference between HIFI and High End
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  4. #29
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Hmmm, I never saw the sign on the terms of service that dictated that the AR forums would be all about high end audio only. Shame on us for discussing "hifi" in your rarified presence.

    If you want to look for a different forum and discussion than what gets tossed around on this board, then by all means find your place and go there. I hope you're happier wherever you wind up. These kinds of self-serving "I quit" threads are nothing more than parting shots intended to tell others on a particular board that they're not worthy.



    Input of equal level? You mean, your input is more important, valid, and useful just because you own a "high end" system?



    No ending? I've not seen ANY discussions on this board comparing $300 bookshelfs with $20k full range speakers, yet you're telling us that you see "no ending in these kinds of discussions." If you're "resigning" over something as imaginary/rhetorical/fabricated as that, then this quitter thread is even more pointless than the others that I've seen over the years.



    And other members have nothing better to do than to expect everybody else to either spend the equivalent of a second mortgage on an audio system, or to fawn at their feet and hang on their every word just because of the equipment that they own.

    If this is "stressing [you] endlessly" then you should take a step back and just enjoy the damn system that spent so much effort building and bragging about. Something tells me that more listening and less typing will help your mindset considerably. Good luck.
    I dont brag about the system, i just post pictures because i want to SHARE my experiences. But all i get in the gallery is some ****head comments and everyone considers ot bragging because they cant afford it.
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  5. #30
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T BOMB25
    Hey Peter Klim! he didnt answer me so i guess we right.Woochifer very well said,Cam ruthless but honest i like it Mix that was funny let us real audiophiles have good objective discussions.Boy some real suckups on here i wont say any names but you know who you are im a little suprised about someone im still unimpressed ! ! !
    Sad that you have no idea what your missing. And you just started....
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  6. #31
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Most of the time

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA

    I take a tremendous beating on this forum from practically everyone .

    Good Luck with wherever you go.
    You deserve what you get. And you give a lot more than you get, that's for sure.
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  7. #32
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    You'll be back

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Sad that you have no idea what your missing. And you just started....
    Once you realize that the only way people can pull your chain is if you let them.

    Audioreview.com has the best forums on the web. It's the reason I stay. If you want to persue your hobby someplace else that's fine. But be assured that your going to run into the same problems you have here somewhere else, as most of what it bothering you is self inflicted.

    Good luck!
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  8. #33
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Audioreview has the BIGGEST community. I am in another forum for a long time, and there are 0 problems, 0 fights and only constructive arguments.

    -Flo

    PS: But enough of that, i have said what i wanted to say and a few people actually got it.
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  9. #34
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    I WILL miss you, Florian

    You've been a lot of fun for me and many others I dare say, but if you're not having fun yourself, then I guess it's time to bail.

    You have a great system, (or systems), and I enjoy looking at them very much. I'll never own a system like that. I'm one of those guys whose going to have to do with a $5000 kit -- and not because I can't appreciate a $20k system or a $500k one for that matter.

    And I grant that the, "What's the best 5.1 surround system for under $200?" questions are boring, but some of those people will expand their horizons with encouragement.

    Pardon a few negative comments about yourself, because basically you're a good guy:

    First, your technical knowledge does not begin to approach that of various members. These people can speak solid science and fact whereas you speak opinion most often. Even I can do that much!

    Second, don't delude yourself that you're anywhere near the top of high-end, (I'm not saying you do). If you want to see real high-end, check out mikel's equipment and listening room ...
    Thirdly, you haven't learned yet -- as RGA has begun to -- that there are other valid opinions and perspectives besides your own.

    Anyway, maybe we'll see you again somewhere. Enjoy.

  10. #35
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    "Input of equal level"? "High end sytems"?

    Flo, yuo seemed like a nice guy with lota of bucks to throw at a fairly expensive system. I (we?) don't begrudge you that pleasure but, please understand, not everyone is in a financial position to be able to do that.

    But, everyone is in a position to eke the most pleasure out of what they can afford.

    It's that group that needs the most here. After all, with enough money, many problems can be made to disappear. It's geting the most on a tight budget that is more difficult. You'll find more mid priced systems here than the "high end" systems here and, like it ot not, that's a fact of life in general.

    Sometimes, ya gotta drive that Mercedes next to a Hyundai in this world.

  11. #36
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    $Bye$
    Look & Listen

  12. #37
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Its funny how everyone says i have tons of dough to spend. I don't. I have this as my primary hobby for 5 years and just upgraded and got lucky. I am not at the top of High End eventough the speakers are. Thats why i am working on the rest and i post many pictures and systems. But the general feedback is simply idiotic. Look at the comments "$Bye$" or "we the real audiophiles". Those are a joke and naming a B&W 800 in the same breath as a Scintilla, Watt Puppy or ML Prodigy is a joke too. I have enjoyed many people on this forum and their systems, but the simple fact is that most of them have no clue abut this hobby, have never heard or had a High End system and will argue you to the death about the 300$ Paradigm speakers.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  13. #38
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    So, when you say you quit, the effective date and time is what, exactly?

  14. #39
    Forum Regular gonefishin's Avatar
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    Hi Florian



    You sure do sound frustrated. Perhaps just stepping down and taking a new look at audio sites is required.

    I've found that different audio sites offer me different things at different times. So, I just accept that and "use" the various sites for the purpose that they fullfill the best.

    These are my personal reasons for using various audio sites and may change at any time as I see fit. My view of a site may change from time to time as my needs, wants or views change.

    My suggestion would be not to view a site as you would like to see it. But view each site for what it is...and take advantage of those parts of each site that fit with your needs or personality.

    dan
    __________________
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    enjoy the music!

  15. #40
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Unhappy Sorry to see you go Flo

    I have only been on this forum for a couple of months, but your advice has helped durring that time. I've notivced that you haven't been posting as much lately. When I saw your post yesterday with pictures of your new set up I thought that maybe you had just been busy. But I guess you just don't enjoy some of the conversations you have been in here.

    I can see why you would want to find another forum, one that only or mostly has people like yourself with very hi end systems so that you can receive advice from someone instead of always giving it. In many cases, I see that advice here is met with sarcasm and critisism.

    But I hope that you will miss us and throw in a few words of wisdom from time to time. Maybe all you need is a break.

    Remember, there will always be people who can't take advice. Even when they ask for it. That's everywhere. I've done it myself.

    Take care, good luck, and don't forget to visit.

    Michael
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  16. #41
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    Florian-

    If you are unhappy on this board, then you are doing yourself a service by leaving. Life is to short to tolerate things that make you stressed out. Apparently you have a very impressive system. If you can swing it financially, I say go for it. I have thought to myself several times that if I had the means, I would go for broke. Kids, car payments, and a mortgage kind of got in the way (no, I'm not being sarcastic). Also, keep in mind that it is folks like you, RGA, Woochifer, Markw & some other knowlegable people on this board that help people like me learn more about audio. Best of luck.

    -Mark

  17. #42
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Thanks you guys, its great to see some folk that have enjoyed my help. I am sure that i will help my friends on this forum when they have questions but you guys have my mail adress so dont hesitate to ask.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  18. #43
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    The GOAL should be to find the ultimate in music reproduction to ones best ability.

    -Flo
    With a final statement that rings as true as this one, the rest of what you said sounds pretty childish. Quit if you feel it’s the right thing for you, but don't go and give a petulant "I hereby quit!!!" and then blame humanity for your woes. Have some pride, man.

    The only thing that would bring down the forum is not budget envy, it would be people with knowledge and experience deciding to leave and keeping their experiences to themselves.

  19. #44
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noddin0ff
    With a final statement that rings as true as this one, the rest of what you said sounds pretty childish. Quit if you feel it’s the right thing for you, but don't go and give a petulant "I hereby quit!!!" and then blame humanity for your woes. Have some pride, man.

    The only thing that would bring down the forum is not budget envy, it would be people with knowledge and experience deciding to leave and keeping their experiences to themselves.
    Knowledge is not what some peope look for. They loose themselves in endless searches for a 500$ best bang of the buck speaker !! The people that responded and apreciate the help i have given are a true statment of what this site is for. But sites like this get damaged by folks that have nothing better to do than attack high end people with their ever growing envy. I have tons of pride and propebly some arrogance too. But this comes with all high end folk. Ask the people with Kharma's, Apogee's, Soundlabs, Genesis etc... and you will see that they dont even talk to hifi, best bang for the buck people at all. They care about music and the best reproduction of it. I just saw happen and tried to open a view eyes, but it failed misserably because they all look at it with envy and disinterest.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  20. #45
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    I have tons of pride and propebly some arrogance too. But this comes with all high end folk.
    Um, Earth to Flo...this comes with all folk.

    (including those with a $XXX budget and looking for help finding the best bang for their buck)

  21. #46
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    One of the easier emotions to experience in a hobby you are nose deep in is burn-out, and from this outsiders perspective, you are knocking at the door. When a recreational hobby reaches a point of apparent unhealthy stress, it is time to take a few steps back. Ive found many ways to gain perspective back into life, be it through a simple walk through the local park or time away from the hobby.

    Remember, these people who own the products you speak of were once like most of the others. We all start somewhere, and most of us have to pay our dues. The High End crowd you speak of is typically composed of two types. First is the type that loves music, and can afford some of the better equipment constructed to give the best experience possible. The other type can fund high-end easily, but unfortunately care very little about the music. Their concern is obtaining high dollar, name brand approved audiophile gear and lavishing in the feel of owning something high tone. Rarely do these people attend live concerts and rarely are these people active musicians, and that is about as close to the music as you can get. Do not make the mistake of making that mistake.

    As my post count indicates, I am quite new to these boards. However, in that very short time your character has struck me as overwhelmingly confident. Remember, you are voluntarily participating in a board that attracts people of all sort, including bargain hunters and those who are less educated and experience than yourself. Yes, you will encounter different opinions, experiences, those of envy, etc.., and while it can be frustrating, its life!

    Reading through your posts, in the back of my mind I kept thinking; Clearly this is a forum with a majority that he feels are not up to his level, perhaps its time to pursue a place with a higher concentration of those who have the same type of cash invested in their systems.

    In the end, I feel it is you who have so much to learn, but a strong chip on the shoulder will prevent any growth. Posting self-inspired I quit posts are for those who truly do feel quite highly of themselves, perhaps too much so. Typically its in bad taste and does you no justice whatsoever, this situation being of no exclusion! Ironically, the majority who create these last words stick around longer than most of the others.

    Once again I will repeat a point I wish to drive home, and that is gaining perspective.

  22. #47
    cam
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    High End Audio snob, i wouldnt have to be if people like you understood that a 300$ bookshelf speaker will never even scratch a Infinity Epsilon or Apogee. But no, people like you cant take comments from High End peopl, because you feel insulted and start arguments over money.
    You must be getting me mixed up with someone else, because I would for go a $300 bookshelf or even a $1000 bookshelf for a $1000 floorstander any day of the week. I have heard some $300 bookshelf speakers that sound as good as they can for the money. But for me, whatever speaker line I may purchase in the future, It will definately be a floorstander. And also from the prices out there I doubt I would ever have to spend more then $1500. And that would be high end for me.

  23. #48
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Of course hifi should have a place in society, but i look for forums which were meant to be for people to share experiences so the ultimate in music reproduction could be obtained for all who are interested.
    This is not necessarily the best forum to achieve that goal. There's nothing wrong with your objective nor the more down-to-earth focus found here. I lurked here for a while marvelling at how much time certain folks invested discussing that which they believe is of no value - cables. I began posting to share my positive experience in that regard and was asked to help moderate.

    I guess I get enough of the "high end fix" since I have known JWC and HP of The Absolute Sound for over twenty five years. Visiting Sea Cliff always leaves me amazed at what is possible. And ultimately, lighter of pocket with that exposure! So which amp should we listen to first? The VTL Wotans, Edge Signature Monoblocks, ASL Hurricanes, or the Halcros? Too many good choices.

    On the other hand, I would like to think that I can assist others with the goal of making a modest system sound better. While I have been thoroughly enjoying my newish Sound Labs U-1 speakers (and have some Harmonic Tech Magic power cords on order for the VTL amps), I spend as much time fiddling wth and enjoying my vintage Advent based system in the garage. My passion for enjoying music can be satisfied on different levels.

    rw

  24. #49
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    You both make some good points. I am definetly into music over equipment but do feel that good equipment is necessary to further increase the musical pleasure. Ill properbly stick around but in a much smaller consistency in the areas i know. Planar Systems and more exotic audio.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  25. #50
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    I take a tremendous beating on this forum from practically everyone ...
    I hope you haven't considered any of my responses as "beating up on you", but you'll have to admit that chances are very high that AN will somehow work it's way into the discussion with your posts.

    rw

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