Ultra Clarifier "Dual Beam" does this device improved CD sound?

[hershon]

Does this device or any device that you know of actually improve CD sound quality or is this another suckers game. Please go to this link on this device and let me know what you think. http://www.bedini.com/clarifier.htm Actually, right after I posted this I came upon a great site for a company called Music Direct which sells this product and alot of high end audio stuff at greatly reduced prices and offers a 30 day return policy. http://www.amusicdirect.com/default.asp

The owner seems to be very knowledgeable and he actually said this product does work and produces noticeable results and uses one himself. He also mentioned additional ways to improve sound quality of CDs are from something called vibration control & power conditioning
& also recommended some liquid solution which I purchased called Walker Audio Vivid CD & DVD Enhancer that you put on a CD just once that will permanently improve the CD's sound and something called a sound improvement disc that you place over the CD when playing. Any thoughts? You guys know way more about this stuff than I do.

[Richard Greene]

I can't comment on the specific Bedini device because I have not used it.

However when the Bedini Clarifier was originally introduced in the US, I led a blind audition comparing its effects with an "unclarified" CD.

In fact I did not "clarify" any CD's, but listeners often thought I did -- that was caused by their overactive audiophile imaginations. Read that sentence again and think about how it could affect audiophile recommendations.

Many A-B differences "heard" in audio are only imagined -- our "audio memory" is a very short term memory ... and audiophiles are pressured into believing differences among components are almost always audible. That belief is a very important part of the audio "religion" -- however under blind conditions audiophiles often can't hear differences that they had claimed to hear minutes earlier in a "warm-up" audition ... before the identities of the components were hidden (blind audition). I've done this myself and witnessed it many times during double-blind auditions.

No materials used in the CD (polycarbonate and aluminum), except for possibly some inks that could be used for some labels, can be magnetized. Therefore, demagnetizing a CD is not feasible.

In my opinion the product is likely to be a complete waste of money.
I've been an audiophile since 1966 and have built speakers & subwoofers as a hobby
since 1971.

[Feanor]

...
However when the Bedini Clarifier was originally introduced in the US, I led a blind audition comparing its effects with an "unclarified" CD.

In fact I did not "clarify" any CD's, but listeners often thought I did -- that was caused by their overactive audiophile imaginations. Read that sentence again and think about how it could affect audiophile recommendations.
...
In my opinion the product is likely to be a complete waste of money.
I've been an audiophile since 1966 and have built speakers & subwoofers as a hobby
since 1971.

In the case of the Clarifier, the statement is made, "With its patented Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration, the Clarifier polarizes the polymer in such a way as to maximize the laser's ability to retrieve stored data." How do you polarize a polymer? Maybe someone can explain, but from my limited knowledge, a polymer is a quite complex molecule that doesn't have a pole to align. OK, maybe the Clarifier does polarized the polymer: so how does that make the CD sound better?

These devices abound with such psuedo-scientific claims. In some cases no explanation at all is offer to explain why the device might work, just send us your money! My advice: DON'T.

[hershon]

First off, I'm as skeptical as you but I really can't see it hurting me or anyone else, to take a chance on this product, if we can get our money back if we're not satisfied (other than the return shipping cost). According to Music Direct, who's salespeople I respect, a bunch of them own the product and they would not carry a product that didn't work, as it wouldn't sell and/or be constantly returned & damage the stores reputation. As Music Direct sells very high end stuff and they didn't push this or any other product on me (in fact I actually came to them about the product as they carry it for 50% less than other online stores), I consider them credible. Again, I should stress, if they didn't have a 30 day return policy, I never would have bought or taken a chance on this product. I just look at it like I have everything to win if somehow it miraculously does improve CD sound noticeably and have nothing other than a small return shipping charge to lose.

What I intend to do is play 2 different Beatles CD's that I'm not wild about the sound on, first without clarification, then with. I'll either notice an apparent difference or not as I have excellent ears and to be honest have no desire to shell out $200 for a product that won't produce significant improvement. Then just to double check myself, I'm going to make before I clarify anything, 2 CDR's of each disc, clarifying one & leaving the other in its original state, and play thenm back to back. While I agree psychologically I may be predisposed into noticing a difference, unless the difference was significant I wouldn't want to buy the product, so I don't think my bias will be much of a factor. As for another example, I bought and returned last week a Marantz 5400 CD player and an Onkyo 390 CD player as neither of them improved the sound quality of my CD sound as much as I would have liked them to. In any case I will report the results of my experiment on this board.

In the case of the Clarifier, the statement is made, "With its patented Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration, the Clarifier polarizes the polymer in such a way as to maximize the laser's ability to retrieve stored data." How do you polarize a polymer? Maybe someone can explain, but from my limited knowledge, a polymer is a quite complex molecule that doesn't have a pole to align. OK, maybe the Clarifier does polarized the polymer: so how does that make the CD sound better?

These devices abound with such psuedo-scientific claims. In some cases no explanation at all is offer to explain why the device might work, just send us your money! My advice: DON'T.

[topspeed]

Rich is one of the smartest engineers on this board and has forgotten more about acoustic properties than you or I will ever know. His headline is so concise it needs to be repeated: Don't take audio advice from people who benefit financially from that advice

If you really want to see if this crap makes a difference, do your experiment blind. Have a friend come over and switch the discs while you are out of the room. Make sure you don't know the order or even whether they're switching the disc or not. Oh yeah, do this a bunch of times, not just once. Now see if you can hear a difference.

Let me give you an example of the power of predispositions: In college, we did an experiment in Organizational Behavior where we asked 10-15 fellow students to identify the difference between Coke and Pepsi (this was during their advertising wars). The students were in another room when the cups were poured and then came out and tried to ID each one. To make it interesting, on the second trial we poured Coke in every cup. To a man, they all said there was a difference between the two samples, simply because they were predisposed to recognize differences when in reality there were none. The power of suggestions and presuppositions cannot be underestimated my friend.

Hershon, the only way you're going to get those Beatles albums to sound better is to 1) get better remastered recordings, 2) Find the LP's and buy a TT, or 3) find the masters and do it yourself.

[hershon]

While I respect your opinion and my result will probably be as you predicted, I think I'd notice if the sound quality difference was a night and day difference in the sound, regardless of my bias. As I said, I have no desire to lay out $200 for a product if it doesn't make the sound quality significantly better, as opposed to subjectively better. If we're talking minor differences in sound quality, I agree your method is preferable. But if we're talking apparent differences that anyone could automatically tell, then my method at least for me, is the best way to judge. Again, to be redundent, if you have a 30 day return policy on this product, what do you really have to lose. In regards to salesmen, again the best argument these guys made me is, if a product doesn't work, why would they stock it and ruin their stores reputation? If it doesn't work, to be honest, I won't consider myself to have learned anything from the process, as I didn't expect it to work in the first place, but as there is a full money back guarantee, the risk, which is no risk, is worth taking if somehow it miraculously works. To me its like, if you see the most beautiful, hottest looking woman around- someone everyone wants, while the chances are she won't be available & you won't score, what do you have to lose by asking her out?

Rich is one of the smartest engineers on this board and has forgotten more about acoustic properties than you or I will ever know. His headline is so concise it needs to be repeated: Don't take audio advice from people who benefit financially from that advice

If you really want to see if this crap makes a difference, do your experiment blind. Have a friend come over and switch the discs while you are out of the room. Make sure you don't know the order or even whether they're switching the disc or not. Oh yeah, do this a bunch of times, not just once. Now see if you can hear a difference.

Let me give you an example of the power of predispositions: In college, we did an experiment in Organizational Behavior where we asked 10-15 fellow students to identify the difference between Coke and Pepsi (this was during their advertising wars). The students were in another room when the cups were poured and then came out and tried to ID each one. To make it interesting, on the second trial we poured Coke in every cup. To a man, they all said there was a difference between the two samples, simply because they were predisposed to recognize differences when in reality there were none. The power of suggestions and presuppositions cannot be underestimated my friend.

Hershon, the only way you're going to get those Beatles albums to sound better is to 1) get better remastered recordings, 2) Find the LP's and buy a TT, or 3) find the masters and do it yourself.

[drseid]

Hershon, this stuff is all snake oil... I wish it were not true, but unfortunately it is. You would be surprised how many people buy (and keep) these things anyway (I guess they have money to burn)... I recommend avoiding products such as these, as it is worse than playing the lottery, IMO.

If you plan to spend money on this stuff, quite frankly I would advise you to instead save up for more revealing speakers (not to imply your Orbs are no good, but there are always even *better* options). In the case of speakers, your money very well *could* make a difference... These types of wacky "audiophile" products will get you nowhere, IMO. Sorry to be so frank, but I don't know any other way to put it with regard to products such as these...

---Dave

[topspeed]

Fair enough. It is a hobby after all and different people enjoy different aspects. If you want to play with this gunk, go for it my friend .

[hershon]

While I'm not insuating my Orb speakers are the best speakers on the market or sound better than yours, in every high end as well as Chain Store, I've heard speakers, none to me has sounded as good as my Orbs. While there really is no problem in regards to sound, from reading these posts over the past few months, I'm convinced that I'm missing out on the holy grail of sound quality though, and am striving to reach it on a limited budget, which as more than one person here has said, and I take no issue with that, you aren't going to find perfection with another $1500 or so in upgrades. So I'm game/desperate to try any quick fix, as long as I'm not out any money, if the fix doesn't work. I've tried a relatively high end Marantz CD player that made my CD's sound worse-the salesman said that's because it brings out recording imperfections of 60/70's recordings more & a highly rated Onkyo CD player that sounded good but not any better than my existing system. I'll probably experiment with receivers next if my snake oil doesn't work.

Hershon, this stuff is all snake oil... I wish it were not true, but unfortunately it is. You would be surprised how many people buy (and keep) these things anyway (I guess they have money to burn)... I recommend avoiding products such as these, as it is worse than playing the lottery, IMO.

If you plan to spend money on this stuff, quite frankly I would advise you to instead save up for more revealing speakers (not to imply your Orbs are no good, but there are always even *better* options). In the case of speakers, your money very well *could* make a difference... These types of wacky "audiophile" products will get you nowhere, IMO. Sorry to be so frank, but I don't know any other way to put it with regard to products such as these...

---Dave

[drseid]

While I'm not insuating my Orb speakers are the best speakers on the market or sound better than yours, in every high end as well as Chain Store, I've heard speakers, none to me has sounded as good as my Orbs. While there really is no problem in regards to sound, from reading these posts over the past few months, I'm convinced that I'm missing out on the holy grail of sound quality though, and am striving to reach it on a limited budget. So I'm game/desperate to try any quick fix, as long as I'm not out any money, if the fix doesn't work. I'll probably experiment with receivers next if my snake oil doesn't work.

Please understand that I was not trying to put down your Orbs... I just meant to say that a change in speakers will have the greatest chance of getting you closer to "the holy grail" you seek. This is not just specific to your Orbs... but would apply to me, and others as well.

My point is that most of us have financial constraints (I know I do), but it is where we invest our money that will have the greatest impact on the sound... To me, that area is in speakers, where differences between models and brands are the most noticeable (and improving these, sets up being able to notice differences in the rest of the chain).

Apart from upgrading speakers, I fear you will find it hard to hear a "night and day" difference with any other upgrade... Differences between other pieces of the chain are much more subtle as a general rule, and more difficult to notice in most cases (although the more revealing the speakers used, the more noticeable changes in other components in the system will be). This applies to your $1500 budget, or a $50,000+ budget, for that matter.

That said, now that I am finished with my endless semi-incoherrant rant... I'll let your own ears decide if you agree. :-)

Happy listening,

---Dave

[dean_martin]

Hershon, the only way you're going to get those Beatles albums to sound better is to 1) get better remastered recordings, 2) Find the LP's and buy a TT, or 3) find the masters and do it yourself.

Hershon, I thought you had accmulated enough anecdotal testimony to conclude that those dangblasted Beatles cds were screwed up in the mastering/transfer process. But I understand your pursuit. I hope you make it through this experimentation phase and get back to enjoying the music before you go broke.

Speaking of experimenting, try taking home a 2-channel amp for the weekend to drive your front L & R speakers using your JVC receiver as a preamp (assuming it has preamp outs). Listen to the music and see if it makes a difference to you. Your speakers may thank you.

Oh...and please post a full report on your snake oil!

[hershon]

The "Snake Oil" actually 3 different products are suppose to arrive tommorow via UPS.
I'll give an honest accessment in another thread tommorow. The products are: 1. The Quad Bedini Clarifier ($200), 2, A sound improvement disc- which you put over your CD when playing and is supposed to make it sound 30% better ($49) & of course 3. the
Bright Star Audio ISOROCK 4 PLATFORM $85 which is supposed to eliminate the vibrations from things in a component sustem such as my JVC DVD receiver. The liquid non refundable stuff you also put on a CD to improve the sound is being sent to me in a seperate package. I'll be testing these things seperately, yes using the 2 questionable Beatles CD's "Revolver" and "Rubber Soul" both with the original CD and comparing the sounds and then comparing CDR's of the same disc with each other (one CDR clarified, the other not, etc.). The main thing is, unless I find a noticeable improvement in the sound quality, I will consider these items useless and return them. If somehow miraculously, I do find the sound improved, for those products, this will not be something biased or subjective on my part, as I'm talking significant as opposed to minor improvements, which as far as I'm concerned won't be self fullfilling wishful thinking self prophesy.

Hershon, I thought you had accmulated enough anecdotal testimony to conclude that those dangblasted Beatles cds were screwed up in the mastering/transfer process. But I understand your pursuit. I hope you make it through this experimentation phase and get back to enjoying the music before you go broke.

Speaking of experimenting, try taking home a 2-channel amp for the weekend to drive your front L & R speakers using your JVC receiver as a preamp (assuming it has preamp outs). Listen to the music and see if it makes a difference to you. Your speakers may thank you.

Oh...and please post a full report on your snake oil!