What’s the best $800 sub I can buy for a Hi-Res Audio setup?

[quick01]

My setup is used almost exclusively (80/20) for music. Primarily I listen to 2-channel & multi-channel Hi-Res audio (SACD/DVD-A), concert DVD’s and of course redbook CD’s. I listen to everything from Blues and Metal to Classical and Bluegrass. Volume-wise, I typically listen in the 90–100db range with an occasional 105 db peak. My mains are full size towers rated down to 37Hz, so the sub crossover will be turned down to 40 or 50Hz. A concern I have is my listening room is fairly large (23’x 18’ w/14’ vaulted ceiling). I’m considering the SVS 25-31PC+ or SVS 20-39PC+. Any other subs I should add to my list? Thanks John


My 5.1 setup:
Toshiba 35"
Parasound HCA-2003(L/C/R)
h/k PA2000(rears)
h/k AVR 525(pre-amp)
Denon DVD-2900
JBL S310-II's
JBL S-Ctr II
JBL S36-II's(rears)
Velodyne CHT-12 **SOLD!**
23'x18'x14'vaulted ceiling (LxWxH)Living room.

[bargainseeker]

My setup is used almost exclusively (80/20) for music. Primarily I listen to 2-channel & multi-channel Hi-Res audio (SACD/DVD-A), concert DVD?s and of course redbook CD?s. I listen to everything from Blues and Metal to Classical and Bluegrass. Volume-wise, I typically listen in the 90?100db range with an occasional 105 db peak. My mains are full size towers rated down to 37Hz, so the sub crossover will be turned down to 40 or 50Hz. A concern I have is my listening room is fairly large (23?x 18? w/14? vaulted ceiling). I?m considering the SVS 25-31PC+ or SVS 20-39PC+. Any other subs I should add to my list?

I have both an SVS 20-39PC+ and an SVS PB10-ISD subwoofer. Both are excellent subwoofers. If your use of the subwoofer was 50/50 music and home theater or mostly home theater, then I would recommend the 20-39PC+ without question. However, since your use is 80/20 music, the choice is tougher. I find that I somewhat prefer the sound of the PB10-ISD on music. So in the SVS line, you may want to consider getting two PB10-ISD subwoofers instead of a single 20-39PC+. By all accounts the SVS Ultra series is outstanding for music. So if you can stretch your budget to $1149, I would recommend the SVS PC-Ultra. Another good subwoofer option for music is the Hsu Research VTF-3.

[quick01]

bargainseeker: Thx for the info. I'd love to get an Ultra but the PC+ will already be "bustin" my budget. I mean after all, I'm been using a Velo CHT-12 for two years with my current setup. I've been told that the PC+ will be a huge step up from that. Do you really think I'd be able to tell that much of a difference between the 20-39+ and the 20-39Ultra?

[bargainseeker]

bargainseeker: Thx for the info. I'd love to get an Ultra but the PC+ will already be "bustin" my budget. I mean after all, I'm been using a Velo CHT-12 for two years with my current setup. I've been told that the PC+ will be a huge step up from that. Do you really think I'd be able to tell that much of a difference between the 20-39+ and the 20-39Ultra?

Those who have tested a wide range of SVS subwoofers seem to feel that the Ultra is a bigger step up from the Plus than the Plus is from the ISD. They seem to feel that the Ultra betters the Plus in transient response and in "pressurizing the room" with low bass. That being said, if I had never gotten the PB10, I would have continued to be perfectly satisfied with my PC+. However, in terms of the technology used, the woofer in the PB10 is the Ultra's little brother. So it is perhaps no surprise that the transient response of the PB10 sounds better than that of the PC+.

[quick01]

I checked out the response curve on the PB10. Wow! It's flat almost down to 20Hz. Impressive indeed! I hadn't even considered the PB10. But, a dual PB10 setup would be a tough sell to the wife. Why not just buy one PB12? Is the PB10 driver and design that much better?

[drseid]

If music listening is your top priority, then I would recommend the ACI Force subwoofer located at www.audioc.com

Another possibility if you are willing to sacrifice a bit on sound for about a $200-300 savings, is the UFW-10 at www.av123.com

Both of these should be great for music...

I personally love my ACI Titan sub, and the ACI Force is very similar. ACI will be tough to beat for music...

For HT, SVS rules, IMO.

---Dave

[bargainseeker]

I checked out the response curve on the PB10. Wow! It's flat almost down to 20Hz. Impressive indeed! I hadn't even considered the PB10. But, a dual PB10 setup would be a tough sell to the wife. Why not just buy one PB12? Is the PB10 driver and design that much better?

The response curve you were looking at was made in an anechoic chamber. In-room, the PB10 can easily go flat to 18Hz. SVS and TC-Sounds used what they learned in designing the Ultra woofer to design the PB10 woofer. That's why I called it Ultra's little brother. From a technical point of view, the only SVS woofer that is superior to the one in the PB10 is the Ultra. What the PB10 can't do is produce the maximum output of the 12" woofers, at least not singly. Two PB10s would produce comparable output to a single PC+ but would not be able to play as loud as a single PC-Ultra.

[quick01]

drseid: I'm not familar with ACI. I'll check it out. Thx

bargainseeker: hmmm...interesting. Good info!

................Man I can't believe I'm actually considering running a dual sub setup. This is crazy!

[SpankingVanillaice]

The best sub that sonuds really professionl to me is the JBL S120P.


JBL S120PII

[Woochifer]

The ACI and Rocket subs are sealed boxes, while the other suggestions are vented/ported designs. In a nutshell, sealed subs are somewhat easier to place, and their more gradual dropoff at the low end subjectively might sound more natural. That's why they have a reputation for sounding more "musical" than a lot of ported subs. Sealed subs aren't nearly as efficient as ported designs, but they are easier to design. Disadvantages of sealed subs are that they start to drop at a higher frequency than comparable ported subs will, and their distortion increases as the frequency drops to the lower limit. With ported subs, the output will be more consistent down to the tuned port frequency. However, once you go below the tuned frequency, then the dropoff will occur very suddenly and unless the amp has a rumble filter built in, the driver will have a lot of excessive movement that does nothing.

In the last couple of years, there have a lot of sealed subs that have been introduced into your price range. B&W and Atlantic Technology have sealed subs in your price range, and at CES, Martin Logan just introduced a new $600 subwoofer that's also a sealed design. I would also look at options from Adire Audio and Acoustic Visions. I use the Adire Rava, and for a while that was the only sealed sub I was aware of in the $500 price range. It's an excellent value and it's equally adept for both music and home theater. Doesn't pound out the SPL as high as some ported models will, but it works very well with acoustic music. You should also check into when Adire plans to reintroduce the Daeva subwoofer. It's a 15" version of the Rava, and they made it briefly last year until the amp that they paired with that unit got discontinued. They were supposed to reintroduce it when they found a new amp to go with it.

And with any sub, I would suggest that you get a SPL meter and a test disc so you can set the thing up properly. I found that in my room, the acoustics were creating huge peaks at three frequencies, which made the sub sound boomy and bloated. Using a parametric equalizer, I was able to dial back those peaks and more accurately set the level. This made the bass much better integrated with the mains, and without those peaks dictating the overall sound, my bass is now even and extended.

http://members.aol.com/sfwooch/

[quick01]

bargainseeker: I sent my PB10 back and ordered an PC-Ultra. I was trying to save a few bucks and get by with the PB10. It sounded very good, very musical, better than my CHT-12, but it just doesn't have the output needed to fill my room. On hard kick drum or bass notes it distorts and then the circuity kicks in and reduces the output. I should get my Ultra next week.

[bargainseeker]

bargainseeker: I sent my PB10 back and ordered an PC-Ultra. I was trying to save a few bucks and get by with the PB10. It sounded very good, very musical, better than my CHT-12, but it just doesn't have the output needed to fill my room. On hard kick drum or bass notes it distorts and then the circuity kicks in and reduces the output. I should get my Ultra next week.

I think you made the right choice for your large listening room. A single PC-Ultra will produce more output than even two PB10s. A single subwoofer also eliminates the potential placement and adjustment issues of two subs.

[sidney]

bargainseeker: I sent my PB10 back and ordered an PC-Ultra. I was trying to save a few bucks and get by with the PB10. It sounded very good, very musical, better than my CHT-12, but it just doesn't have the output needed to fill my room. On hard kick drum or bass notes it distorts and then the circuity kicks in and reduces the output. I should get my Ultra next week.

Well I thought the chtr-12 the new version was very good specially for home theater.