NAbstentia & Others What are your favorite DVD-A &SACD's?

[hershon]

If any of you including my man NAbstentia who already listed a few items, have DVD-A and/or SACD albums, could you please list which are your favorites and which are your worst. Please break down by DVD-A and SACD. If possible can you try to list albums recorded in the 60's to mid 80's?

A couple of extra credit questions. Can one buy an adapter to connect to their DVD player
so you can fully play DVD-A and SACD? If so, any recommendations?

Bonus extra credit- What exactly is the track that you don't hear on regular hiome theater
5.1 dolby systems when playing DVD-A? You said your missing MLP Surround
and MLP Stereo by just playing a DVD-A on a regular home theater system. What exactly is MLP and is there a noticeable difference between 5.1 dolby surround sound?

[N. Abstentia]

Funny, I was just working on a section of my website dedicated to DVD-A/SACD, with my viewpoints on them and everything.

My favorite DVD-A discs: (and keep in mind that I'm NOT considering the actual music on these discs, just the surround mix. Of course the music is good...I bought it!) Basically what makes these good surround discs is having everything right where it should be. Vocals should be in the center, not the left rear. Drums should be spread out across the front, not only in the center. It should be alive, have a 'full' sound, and there should not be any time spent thinking about what it could have sounded like if it were to have been done right. So here are the ones I like the most:

Yes - Fragile. Simply stunning for a 1971 recording.
Queensryche - Tribe. Very well balanced. Done better than Empire.
Yes - Magnification. Yes + Symphony = made for surround.
R.E.M. - Automatic For The People. Very nice.
The Doors - LA Woman - First DVD-A I ever bought, it's amazing considering the age of the recording. Having Jim Morrison this clear is kind of erie!

SACD's:
Alison Krauss & Union Station - New Favorite. This IS my new favorite. Just got it, and I'm blown away. Simply awesome.
Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon. Recorded in 1972. Finally done right in 2004!
Peter Gabriel - Up. Made for surround, quite simply.

[N. Abstentia]

Now for the near misses. Not as good as they could have been, but not a deal breaker.

Queensryche - Empire DVD-A. Just missing something. My DCC CD is much warmer and sounds much better.
Alison Krauss & Union Station Live SACD. Vocals are totally off center to the right, does not have the air and vibrance that a live recording should have. Guitars/violins have no spank. I usually stick with the CD layer.

[N. Abstentia]

Now for the BAD:

Bruce Dickinson - Balls To Picasso DVD-A Okay, let's take a great album of music and add 15db of gain to the sub channel, put one of the finest rock vocalists ever in the very back of the mix, and we'll put random reverb on everything else. Then we'll call it 'surround'. Not.

Porcupine Tree - In Abenstia This almost went on the near miss list, but I just couldn't do it. I love the CD. I knew every second of it by heart, and it is one of the best CD's ever recorded. The DVD-A loses all the punch, air, ambience, quality, and whatever else the CD has. Drums on the CD are huge and drive many of the songs. Drums on the DVD-A sound like old trashcans. I keep reading good reviews on this disc, but they must just be talking about the music because to me the DVD-A mix is not worth the plastic it's stamped on.

[N. Abstentia]

A couple of extra credit questions. Can one buy an adapter to connect to their DVD player
so you can fully play DVD-A and SACD? If so, any recommendations?

Bonus extra credit- What exactly is the track that you don't hear on regular hiome theater
5.1 dolby systems when playing DVD-A? You said your missing MLP Surround
and MLP Stereo by just playing a DVD-A on a regular home theater system. What exactly is MLP and is there a noticeable difference between 5.1 dolby surround sound?

1) Yes, there is an adapter. It's called a new DVD player
But seriously, if your player does not support them, it will need to be replaced.

2) If you're playing a DVD-A disc on a non DVD-A player, you're not hearing the high resolution MLP track. MLP is Meridian Lossless Processing which is the codec used for high resolution DVD-A (I think it's 192khz 24 bit). It's a pretty big step above DD and DTS, if you have good equipment you'll definitely hear the difference.

[hershon]

I'm going to try out Fragile based on your recommendation. I liked Yes but was never a huge fan, I thought Fragile was a pretty good album but didn't like it enough to buy the CD when it came out but will definately buy this tommorow if its at Tower to hear if for nothing else then the sound which you recommend so I have some idea what a good DVD-A sounds like. Can you please list your website URL?

Funny, I was just working on a section of my website dedicated to DVD-A/SACD, with my viewpoints on them and everything.

My favorite DVD-A discs: (and keep in mind that I'm NOT considering the actual music on these discs, just the surround mix. Of course the music is good...I bought it!) Basically what makes these good surround discs is having everything right where it should be. Vocals should be in the center, not the left rear. Drums should be spread out across the front, not only in the center. It should be alive, have a 'full' sound, and there should not be any time spent thinking about what it could have sounded like if it were to have been done right. So here are the ones I like the most:

Yes - Fragile. Simply stunning for a 1971 recording.
Queensryche - Tribe. Very well balanced. Done better than Empire.
Yes - Magnification. Yes + Symphony = made for surround.
R.E.M. - Automatic For The People. Very nice.
The Doors - LA Woman - First DVD-A I ever bought, it's amazing considering the age of the recording. Having Jim Morrison this clear is kind of erie!

SACD's:
Alison Krauss & Union Station - New Favorite. This IS my new favorite. Just got it, and I'm blown away. Simply awesome.
Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon. Recorded in 1972. Finally done right in 2004!
Peter Gabriel - Up. Made for surround, quite simply.

[hershon]

It looks like I'm in luck here as the way I'm interpreting my manual my JVC DVD receiver plays DVD-A's and there is a seperate indicator on it when it plays but what about SACD's? Do you need a seperate player for that?

1) Yes, there is an adapter. It's called a new DVD player
But seriously, if your player does not support them, it will need to be replaced.

2) If you're playing a DVD-A disc on a non DVD-A player, you're not hearing the high resolution MLP track. MLP is Meridian Lossless Processing which is the codec used for high resolution DVD-A (I think it's 192khz 24 bit). It's a pretty big step above DD and DTS, if you have good equipment you'll definitely hear the difference.

[N. Abstentia]

What's the model # on your player? Also keep in mind that you'll have to use the multichannel analog outputs going to your reciever, you cannot get DVD-A or SACD through the digital connection. You HAVE to have the 6 analong cables.

You're kinda SOL on SACD, best you can do without an SACD player is the standard CD layer.

My website is www.chuckamuck.com but there's not much there right now, I've wiped it clean and I'm starting it over.

[N. Abstentia]

How sad. Nobody else is responding. I kinda hoped DVD-A/SACD would be a little more popular here. I guess I'm the only one here that has any?

[sy_lu]

MLP is Meridian Lossless Processing which is the codec used for high resolution DVD-A (I think it's 192khz 24 bit). It's a pretty big step above DD and DTS, if you have good equipment you'll definitely hear the difference.

For DVD-A disc that has both 5.1ch and 2ch mix track, the max. is 96/24 for 74 min. with MLP.

[sy_lu]

It looks like I'm in luck here as the way I'm interpreting my manual my JVC DVD receiver plays DVD-A's and there is a seperate indicator on it when it plays but what about SACD's? Do you need a seperate player for that?

I can be wrong but I don't think JVC makes a SACD DVD player. You can get a low priced universal DVD player from Pioneer or Samsung. I must said however, I was not impressed with the older Pioneer and returned it on the same day I brought it. It has very poor SACD play back and marginal DVD-A performance. A better universal players uses either separate DAC or hybrid DAC for DVD-A or SACD. Others converts SACD's DSD bit stream to PCM. A lot of the bad things can happen especially if the goal was to cut cost.

As far as recording goes, there are PCM mastered and DSD mastered recordings for SACD. Within my collections, I find the DSD mastered far better than PCM mastered. I had mentioned before, I only buy SACD these days. A more accurate statement is I only buy DSD mastered SACD these days. I don't think PCM mastered SACD within my collection are that good. This may be due to format conversion or just the way they were recorded. It is just that so far I don't have good experiences with them to get me to buy any more of those disc.

[Woochifer]

If you're looking for a great surround mix, Steely Dan's Everything Must Go is about as good a surround music mix as I've heard so far. It's one of those mixes that spaces out the instruments such that you get exceptionally stable side imaging cues and can clearly differentiate front-to-back positioning on the various elements. I don't yet own a SACD or DVD-A player, but the DTS track on that disc already sounds very good.

Another one that I like is Pat Metheny Group's "Imaginary Day" which does a lot of imaging cues with the guitar sounds (not stupid sounding stuff like the old L-to-R panning effects in the early days of stereo, but mixing the center and surround channels differently to alternately make the guitar sound narrower and more focused or wider and more ambient), and percussion instruments. Though not a DVD-A or SACD, his "Speaking of Now" concert DVD is another very interesting mix to listen to because it's a 4.1 mix that was deliberately done with a silent center channel. Some recording engineers (such as the ones over at Chesky Records) prefer to mix multichannel music without the center channel, and this concert DVD is a good example of how that approach can make the music sound more spacious.

The thing about these 5.1 mixes is that they were originally recorded with multichannel mixes in mind. With older recordings, it might not be possible to get the kind of seamless surround effect with some newer recordings, because the original tracks don't provide enough material. Keep in mind that a 5.1 remix of an older recording requires the engineer to go all the way back to the original multitrack master tape and basically create a brand new mixdown. This can improve the sound quality as well because the mix does not have to go through successive passes through older analog tape machines that degraded the signal as the mixdowns progress.

The key to really getting the true effect from 5.1 music soundtracks is to use timbre matched speakers all the way around and position them properly. I was using mismatched surrounds and I thought that sounded pretty good, until I finally added the matching surrounds and that made the most compelling difference with 5.1 music soundtracks. Things like solid side imaging, unlimited soundstaging up front, and pinpoint locational imaging really come to life with proper positioning and timbre matching.

[jamison]

favorite SACDS

Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon
Peter Frampton - Frampton comes alive

Dvd A:
Fleetwood Mac Rumours
Metallica - The Black Album - The Unforgiven and Nothing else matters are phenomenal the rest of the tracks are only mediocre.
Steve Miller Fly like an Eagle

here is my wish list for SACD /DVD A

1. Rush - Moving Pictures / 2112
2. Pink Floyd - WIsh You Were Here
3. Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms
4. Yes - 90125
5 Judas Priest - Screaming For veangeance
6. Madonna - The immaculate collection
From what i can tell these formats are not selling well. it would be nice if someone knew some statistics on how they are selling. I. E. the amount of DVD A compared to SACD etc.
I think these formats have tremendous potential and the greatest potential is new recordings that can take advantage of the new technology. I know im stuck on the music i grew up with but a lot of the music today just doesnt grab me anymore. it has forced me to diversify more. i now listen to some Jazz, new age, and classical, although i prefer rock, heavy metal and pop.

[N. Abstentia]

I read an article about the sales of DVD-A and SACD, it said that sales last year were about the same as the year before, and since lots of titles came out in that time that wasn't a good thing. However, it said that they do not track ONLINE sales which is where most people buy these type of discs. How useless.

I know I've only bought 1 DVD-A at a store, and it took me an hour to drive there.

[hershon]

I just bought 3 different DVD-A's, one based on NAbstentia's recommendations & I have overall mixed feelings. I'm assuming my JVC RX-DV31SL DVD/Receiver plays DVD-A to the full effect because it has a seperate light for DVD-A that goes on when one is played and my light went on. For some strange reason though, I had to reinsert the discs a couple of times to be read/play right as it was producing a horrid unlistenable sound until it read correctly and all the rear speaker & sub buttons lightened up as well. Don't have any idea what caused/causes this problem.

Back to the DVD-A's. I bought 3 of them- Yes "Fragile" based on NAbstentia's recommendation, The Who "Tommy" based on my interest and The Searchers (Needles & Pins, When You Walk in the Room, etc.) greatest hits based on my curiosity. Both the Yes and Searchers CD were priced at $15.99 at Best Buy and the Who was $25.99 at Tower.

Before I go on, due to time limitations in my schedule, I only listened to about 10-15 minutes of each DVD-A.

Yes-Fragile NAbstentia was right the quality on this was amazing Much better than the other 2 DVD-A's. The thing for me is, though it sounded great, I didn't feel the normal experience I do when listening to a regular CD (I listen through 5 channels & the sub but not at PL2 or Dolby just 5 Channel listening option) and I prefer listening to a regular CD over the DVD-A. As I said the sound of the DVD-A was amazing coming out of each speaker but I just didn't get that gut immediate feeling I do when hearing a regular CD. Maybe if I listened to a classical music album on DVD-A I'd relish that more than a classical music CD.. Actually when listening to the Yes DVD-A the music sounded more like it was being played and conducted by an orchestra instead of an immediate rock sound if that makes any sense.

The Searchers- Greatest Hits. A total bogus rip off. It just sounded like they put the same 2 channel music into more channels at different volume levels, if that makes any sense. A total dud a big nothing. In other words, they didn't have a guitar coming from 1 speaker, a vocal from another, etc. So it looks like this wasn't really remixed into DVD-A per se.

The Who Tommy Parts of it were pretty good but it wasn't spectacular or anything. My expectations might have been too high. I'd give it a "B" but who wants to hear a "B" on DVD-A.

In short, unless my opinions totally change when I listen to each DVD-A in its entirety, the DVD-A experience isn't for me as it didn't take my listening experience to a higher level. In a way I'm glad because if it did, I would be replacing all my Cd's with DVD-A's as they became available much like when I totally replaced at a small fortune my record collection with CD's.

Anyone share my feelings, or am I being too premature?

I read an article about the sales of DVD-A and SACD, it said that sales last year were about the same as the year before, and since lots of titles came out in that time that wasn't a good thing. However, it said that they do not track ONLINE sales which is where most people buy these type of discs. How useless.

I know I've only bought 1 DVD-A at a store, and it took me an hour to drive there.

[N. Abstentia]

I'd say you're being to premature. First of all, make sure your DVD player is hooked up through the 6 analog outputs to the multi inputs on your reciever. If you're not doing that, you don't have DVD-A. You have Dolby Digital or DTS. You can also verify that you're playing the MLP track by looking at the audio track that your DVD player is currently playing. If it says DD or DTS, you're not getting it.

Also, what kind of speakers are you using? I found that speaker matching and a killer center channel made a huge difference.

[hershon]

I should have said earlier its a DVD receiver thus not a seperate DVD player and therefore I'm assuming it plays DVD-A right because there's a seperate buttom lit up when DVD-A is played. Orb speakers & Acoustic Research Sub. As I said, specifically in regards to the best DVD-A I heard, Yes's Fragile, the sound was great except I miss the immediacy and feel of a regular CD if that makes any sense at all.

I'd say you're being to premature. First of all, make sure your DVD player is hooked up through the 6 analog outputs to the multi inputs on your reciever. If you're not doing that, you don't have DVD-A. You have Dolby Digital or DTS. You can also verify that you're playing the MLP track by looking at the audio track that your DVD player is currently playing. If it says DD or DTS, you're not getting it.

Also, what kind of speakers are you using? I found that speaker matching and a killer center channel made a huge difference.

[N. Abstentia]

When you push the 'audio track' (might just be labled 'audio') button on your DVD remote, what audio track does it display?

[eqm]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Queen's "A Night at the Opera" for a MLP and 96/24 DTS mix, or Studio Voodoo's 96/24 OR MLP to just plain show off steering. BTW Hershon...is there a separate setup for the speaker and sound levels for the DVD-A section? Many DVD players need to be set apart from the receivers because all processing is done at the source end. I understand you have a combo dvd/receiver unit...but is that a separate setup? Hope this helps.

[nightflier]

My forray into multichannel was a gamble. Since there were no receivers that could take two 5.1 channel inputs, I picked one and stuck with it: SACD. I listen to a lot of classical, so I've been able to get most of what I like, although DVD-A has far more classic rock and current titles. Some of my best SACD's:

- Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (great mix)
- Roger Waters - The Wall: Live In Berlin (something about live surround sound that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up)
- Incubus - A Crow Left of the Murder (great for those Friday evenings after a hard week at work)
- Diana Krall - The Look Of Love (my first SACD purchase, still awesome, and I don't really care for jazz all that much)

And a whole collection of classical SACD's from Telarc, although I sense this is not a classical music croud.

My wishlist:

- Lower prices ($25? Yeah right. I'll just listen to a regular CD, instead)
- Better selection (when is Sony/Philips going to get in gear on this format?)
- No more single layer disks (it's like they just don't want SACD to succeed!)
- Two channel & Mono SACDs? (Huh, except for a slight improvement in sound, that's called a CD. And the Stones can stick were the sun won't shine...)
- Movie soundtracks (sure beats having to watch the whole movie just to hear that one track; and then you're sill having to listen to the dialog through it. It's just not the same thing)
- DVD-A, SACD, CD Hybrid disks (if an artist wants the largest possible audience to enjoy her/his music, that would be the way to do it)
- A discount for trading in a CD with the same music (sure beats clogging up those landfills)

David Geffen, Ken Berry, are you reading this?

[hershon]

Well you were right and I was a bit premature last night- its dat ole fashion crack!, at least listening to the Yes Fragile DVD-A all the way through it sounded great and more enjoyable than listening to a regular CD.

It looks like my DVD/Reciever definately plays DVD-A's correct. The front cover of the instruction manual says it plays DVD-A and so do a bunch of other pages. The following lights up on my DVD player when I'm playing DVD-A, the DVD-A button lights up, I then get the writing PPCM (for when DVD Audio Packed PCM signals go on whatever that means), LFE (low frequency effect atteuator, whatever that means) and something called B.S.P. (I have no idea what that is whatsoever) & the words digital auto auto surround sound on my receiver.

Is there a website that reviews DVD-A's and where is the best and/or cheapest place to buy them online? The one thing I'm getting by osmosis is that the sound on these things depends on it being totally remixed which may result in little work being done, okay work being done and a great job like the Yes DVD-A.

I'd say you're being to premature. First of all, make sure your DVD player is hooked up through the 6 analog outputs to the multi inputs on your reciever. If you're not doing that, you don't have DVD-A. You have Dolby Digital or DTS. You can also verify that you're playing the MLP track by looking at the audio track that your DVD player is currently playing. If it says DD or DTS, you're not getting it.

Also, what kind of speakers are you using? I found that speaker matching and a killer center channel made a huge difference.

[hmmmm]

Has anyone listened to Flaming Lips "Yoshima Battles the Pink Robots?" I think that sounds awesome on DVD-A. If you have a good subwoofer, then Blue Man Group sounds awesome.
I agree that the selection stinks on both of these formats though. It keeps shrinking at my best buy.
Does ACDC have any SACDs or DVD-As out yet? I'll have to pick up Yes when I get a chance.

[BinFrog]

Here are my SACD recommendations:

Pink Floyd: Dark Side (umm...duh?)

Miles Davis: In A Silent Way, Kind Of Blue (amazing what they did w/ a 3-track recording from 1959!!)

Di Meola/MacLaughlin/deLucia: Friday Night in San Francisco (not multi-channel though)

George Coleman/Mike Stern/Ron Carter/Jimmy Cobb: 4 Generations Of Miles (stunning concert sound, so crisp and if you close your eyes you are in the crowd during the beginning crowd noise...it's unreal)

Billy Joel: The Stranger (A little bit of very quiet hiss, and a bit too much reverb on his voice, but other than that it's very strong)

Franz Liszt: Leon Botstein & London Symphony Orchestra: Dante Symphony, Tasso, Lamento E Trionfo (perfect sound?)

The Police: Synchronicity (stereo only. "Walking In Your Footsteps" is breathtaking)

Joe Satriani: Strange Beautiful Music (very well done 5.1 mix, superior sound)

McCoy Tyner: New York Reunion (just a very good mix)

The Who: Live At The Albert Hall (Very, very good concert recording. Great balance of crowd noise with the music)

[Hawkeye]

Hi all, I'm new here. I've been reading through this thread and thought I'd give my 2 cents. First of all I'm fairly new to HT/surround having put together my first system a few months ago. I'm making note of all the recommendations as I slowly build my collection of DVD-A's and SACD's. So far I have just a small handful and will briefly comment on each.

Eagles - Hotel California - DVD-A - Very good (but not great) surround mix. Title tack is far and away the best (IMO), however I also like the surround mix of "Pretty Maids All In a Row" - I love being able to pick out the backing vocals which have amazing clarity in this song.

Porcupine Tree - In Absentia - DVD-A - I like PT and have a few of their other cds. N. Absentia, your comments are interesting regarding the difference between the surround mix and the redbook cd. I may pick up the cd to compare myself. Thanks.
To me the surround mix is nothing spectacular, though like most of the PT stuff I've heard, I do enjoy it.

Steely Dan - Gaucho - DVD-A - Excellent disc in both surround or stereo. Elliot Scheiner comes through and delivers yet another gem. Seems most everything he touches turns to gold.

Beck - Sea Change - SACD - Very nice surround recording, (Scheiner once again). Bought this disc as a result of numerous recommendations and I'm glad I did. Superb.

Neil Young - Greendale - DVD-A - Stripped to the bare essentials, this disc gives me the feeling of being in the recording studio with Young. Pleasent enough disc but I admit I need a bit more time with it to offer a relevant opinion.

Frank Sinatra Live at the Sands - DVD-A - Very nice. Hard to believe this was recorded in 1966. One of the nice things about this mix is the fact that the exteraneous crowd "noise" is left intact: quiet coughs, laughs, and even the tinkling of ice cubes in glasses nearby, help to give this the feeling of being there at one of the front tables. Sinatra's voice is at its best here. Highly recommended.

Alan Parsons - On Air - DTS - I am including this, one because I'm a Parsons fan but more importantly this disc is worth the price, if nothing else, for the track "Apollo" - in my opinion one of the most impressive surround tracks I've come across yet. The rest of the disc isn't half bad either.

Speaking of Parsons, and the number of times I see Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon mentioned here, please take a look at this link - an interview with Parsons (original DSOTM recording engineer), where he makes track by track comments on the James Guthrie surround mix. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...cle_id=444&pag
Interesting.