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  1. #1
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    Integrated Amplifier Run-in Period

    I just purchased a new Primare I20 Integrated.

    The Dealer suggest 100 hours run-in period and play at low volume or high volume is the same.

    Question:

    1. Is the 100 hours run-in period sufficient?

    2. What is the sound different before and after run-in?

    Please, I am a new bird need you guy (Master in hi-fi) some advice.

    My-Set-up: Marantz CD4000 + Monitor Silver Connect + Primare I20 + QED Cables + Mordaunt-short 902.

  2. #2
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    That's a beautiful integrated, congrats.

    Your question will no doubt start a war so understand that everything I'm about to write is merely opinion. I'm not an engineer. I'm not a audiophile zealot. I don't believe in the magic cable fairy but I do believe front end components can sound different.

    Break-in is a combination of two things:

    From the physical side, it is the charging and expansion of the capacitors (caps) to optimum levels. Caps are like batteries and when fully charged, give the amp more headroom and better attack during transients. Some also believe this period is used to settle-in the transformers, power supplies, and even wires among other things. Again, I'm not an engineer.

    The second and probably more influential part is the psychoacoustic element to this equation. Your brain simply needs time to recalibrate to the new sonic signature of your new equipment. As it does this, the sound will slowly become more enjoyable as you become better acquainted with it.

    In my experience, amps before break-in/warm up sound somewhat congested, sometimes nasal, and will have recessed bass and tinny highs. In other words, they sound like a Sony . After break-in, my amps always sound much more natural and neutral with far better extension at both extremes.

    I am a believer in break-in and also warm-up. How long it takes is really up to you to determine.

    Hope this helps.

  3. #3
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    Thanks Topspeed.

    This amp is really beautiful (in both sound and look), during the demo, the dealer pair it with ProAc Response 2.5 - it's so wonderful. The music sound sooooo REAL.

    I am going after the ProAc Studio 125 as suggested by the dealer for budget wise. They claim that the Studio 125 will not as good as the 2.5 (of course), but the family character sound will be there.

    In fact, my wife keep quite after seeing my new amp (i guess it's so elegant and classy look that shut her mouth). Usually, wife will always complain that this amp is so awful bla bla bla.

    I got her this time.

  4. #4
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Throw some Sonus Faber Cremona's at her and you may even get a little sumptin' sumptin'!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkyong1
    I just purchased a new Primare I20 Integrated.

    The Dealer suggest 100 hours run-in period and play at low volume or high volume is the same.

    Question:

    1. Is the 100 hours run-in period sufficient?

    2. What is the sound different before and after run-in?

    Please, I am a new bird need you guy (Master in hi-fi) some advice.

    My-Set-up: Marantz CD4000 + Monitor Silver Connect + Primare I20 + QED Cables + Mordaunt-short 902.
    Break-in for electronics seems to be a myth. I tend to think that it is used to ensure that customers do not return the products, because the longer they keep them, the less likely they are to return them. As you told Topspeed, you find your system sounds great right out of the box. The sound won't change just because it's been used for a 100 hours.
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkyong1
    I just purchased a new Primare I20 Integrated.

    The Dealer suggest 100 hours run-in period and play at low volume or high volume is the same.

    Question:

    1. Is the 100 hours run-in period sufficient?

    2. What is the sound different before and after run-in?

    Please, I am a new bird need you guy (Master in hi-fi) some advice.

    My-Set-up: Marantz CD4000 + Monitor Silver Connect + Primare I20 + QED Cables + Mordaunt-short 902.
    I wonder why the dealer made that suggestion? Maybe he has a financial interest in not getting a return? If that is his recommendatiopn, ask him what it is based on? Any science involved or just a supernatural event, such as a beliefe in things unproven?
    Or, he has some credible supporting evidence such as bias controlled listening?

    His advice is bogus, nothing to think about and don't ask these questions unless you are equipped to take him on the added bs excuses he will come up with.
    mtrycrafts

  7. #7
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  8. #8
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    Does not indicate a need for break in as used in the audio world, using a component for X hours.
    A cap charges as you turn on the component. Discharges when turned off orver time. So what? A small change in dielectric property has yet been shon to be audible, except by golden ears who will not sit down to demonstrate such skills, under controlled conditions. Those who have, lost their certification.

    So, this isn't it.
    mtrycrafts

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtrycraft
    Does not indicate a need for break in as used in the audio world, using a component for X hours.
    A cap charges as you turn on the component. Discharges when turned off orver time. So what? A small change in dielectric property has yet been shon to be audible, except by golden ears who will not sit down to demonstrate such skills, under controlled conditions. Those who have, lost their certification.

    So, this isn't it.
    I have tried to prove the naysayers wrong on the issue of amp break-in/warm-up. I did the same thing with cables about a year ago. The thing that gets me is the fact that there is next to nothing outside of the audio realm of things on amp/circuit warm up / break in. In addition in the electrical engineering classes I have taken there is nothing regarding amp/circuit warm up / break in. The charecteristics of transistors do change with temp, but when designing circuits one is taught to use negative feedback to compensate for variables such as temp or to design circuits so temp is not an issue. It just gets me that manufacturers of amps costing thousands of dollars peddle such nonsense sometimes.

    As for the naysayers, if you can't beat them join em.

  10. #10
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    I have tried to prove the naysayers wrong on the issue of amp break-in/warm-up. I did the same thing with cables about a year ago. The thing that gets me is the fact that there is next to nothing outside of the audio realm of things on amp/circuit warm up / break in. In addition in the electrical engineering classes I have taken there is nothing regarding amp/circuit warm up / break in. The charecteristics of transistors do change with temp, but when designing circuits one is taught to use negative feedback to compensate for variables such as temp or to design circuits so temp is not an issue. It just gets me that manufacturers of amps costing thousands of dollars peddle such nonsense sometimes.

    Let's say that temp is an issue. That is taken care of by the time it reaches operating temp, not 100 hrs as soon as it is turned off, you start from scratch

    As for the naysayers, if you can't beat them join em.

    Sounds good to me
    mtrycrafts

  11. #11
    Forum Regular Monstrous Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkyong1
    I just purchased a new Primare I20 Integrated.

    The Dealer suggest 100 hours run-in period and play at low volume or high volume is the same.

    Question:

    1. Is the 100 hours run-in period sufficient?

    2. What is the sound different before and after run-in?

    Please, I am a new bird need you guy (Master in hi-fi) some advice.

    My-Set-up: Marantz CD4000 + Monitor Silver Connect + Primare I20 + QED Cables + Mordaunt-short 902.
    Here are some facts.

    I have taken six years of electrical engineering and break in was never mentioned during any course. I have worked for twenty years on military electronic systems and break in was never a specification, a testable performance factor nor a consideration at all for any system.

    The first time I have ever heard of break in regarding electronic components and cables was on this very audio board three years ago. As I continue to investigate, I still find that break in for cables and electronics is only discussed on audio boards and by audio salespersons. Do a google search and you'll find all your hits are audio boards, audio retailers, audio websites etc.

    Those are the facts. And you'll find many other tweaks and claims in the audio industry that are not explainable scientifically, only seem to exist in audio, defy the laws of physics and are only propegated and supported by anedotal evidence, usually by the very enthusiastic audiophile or salesperson.

    However, my opinion on this matter would be that it might be beneficial to listen to a new component for a longer period of time. There may be no actual physical change or sound difference, but as a human with a brain and ears, you may find you grow to like that sound or grow to dislike it. You may be breaking yourself in.
    Friends help friends move,
    Good friends help friends move bodies....

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