Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    552

    Turntable Purchase

    I am considering pulling the trigger on a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon. The reviews have been good, and at $399, it looks like a great value. Do any of you Analog-Hounds have a better recommendation?

  2. #2
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,908
    The Music Hall MMF-2.2 on the clearance page at musicdirect.com

  3. #3
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    Posts
    10,176
    Either of those would be good choices.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    5,421
    I would spend a little more and get the DC version of the Debut so you can use Grado Cartridges without a hum. The Debut is built better than the Music Hall from what I have seen.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  5. #5
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,908
    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    I would spend a little more and get the DC version of the Debut so you can use Grado Cartridges without a hum. The Debut is built better than the Music Hall from what I have seen.
    Are you sure a Grado won't hum on the DC version? The motor doesn't look all that different to me. It's still an unshielded synchronous motor right there under the platter. Given that Music Hall turntables have Pro-Ject tonearms and share the same parts - feet, belts, dust covers, even switches, I've never noticed a difference in build quality. I've owned both.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    5,421
    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob View Post
    Are you sure a Grado won't hum on the DC version? The motor doesn't look all that different to me. It's still an unshielded synchronous motor right there under the platter. Given that Music Hall turntables have Pro-Ject tonearms and share the same parts - feet, belts, dust covers, even switches, I've never noticed a difference in build quality. I've owned both.
    I guess I am not 100% certain but I did read where some people have had luck with no DC hum. How ever I could see that you could possibly get a hum as the needle gets closer to the end of the record as it gets closer to the motor. I would call the Needle Doctor and ask them. I really like the Debut for the price. I helped a friend build a budget system with the Debut and an Ortofon blue upgrade.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  7. #7
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,908
    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    I guess I am not 100% certain but I did read where some people have had luck with no DC hum. How ever I could see that you could possibly get a hum as the needle gets closer to the end of the record as it gets closer to the motor. I would call the Needle Doctor and ask them. I really like the Debut for the price. I helped a friend build a budgets system with the Debut and an Ortofon blue upgrade.
    Almost everyone discussing hum on the Debut turntables is really talking about motor vibration. They rarely have Grado or other unshielded cartridges because the Debut ships with a compatible cartridge. The DC supposedly helps with that vibration issue, by some reports, but it seems anecdotal and perhaps not truly the result of the new motor. They're probably just having better results from the new way the motor is mounted.

  8. #8
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,710
    I don't see how a DC motor can induce hum in anything as there is no AC involved.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  9. #9
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    Posts
    10,176
    Seems simple enough, don't use Grado.

  10. #10
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,908
    There is AC involved. It's AC around the stator and DC to the rotor.

  11. #11
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    St. Charles Mo
    Posts
    3,271
    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    I would spend a little more and get the DC version of the Debut so you can use Grado Cartridges without a hum. The Debut is built better than the Music Hall from what I have seen.
    pretty much the same tables!
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  12. #12
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,710
    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob View Post
    There is AC involved. It's AC around the stator and DC to the rotor.
    An electric motor is either AC or DC they are not combined.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  13. #13
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,717
    I have a Debut Carbon (not DC) and can tell you the hum on mine came from the motor mount. It came shipped from the factory cranked down on the sorbothane suspension. After 5 minutes on Google (it's a fairly common problem), the most cost effective fix came from a pair of .25 cent sorbothane washers from Home Depot. Simply remove the two phillips screws that affix the motor bracket to the sorbothane suspension and insert the washers between the screws and the metal plate that holds the motor. Dial it back down gently until it's low enough that it won't scrape the platter but take care to not compress the suspension so much. It took about 3 minutes and completely eliminated the hum. The 'table is dead quiet now. A lot of folks also simply removed the screws altogether and let the motor float on the suspension (rubber bands hold it in place), but I didn't care for this solution. As for noise from AC vs DC, I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment.

  14. #14
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,908
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9 View Post
    An electric motor is either AC or DC they are not combined.


    Like this-

    http://youtu.be/Vk2jDXxZIhs

  15. #15
    3db
    3db is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    527
    I've yet to come across a syncrhronous motor that used DC to energize the rotor. Its always been permanent magnets. I'm also betting dollars to donuts that turntables using synchronous motors employ permanent magnets and not DC because its cheaper and more economical.
    Main System/Second System
    Receiver Yamaha RX-V1800/Yamaha RX-V1500
    Turntable ProJect Xpression III with Ortofon Red
    Display Samsung UN65KU6491 65"/
    Vizio SV-470M 47"
    BluRay/CD Yamaha BD-S681/Sony BDP-S360
    Media Player Iomega with 1TB internal drive/WDTV + 3TB drive
    Speakers PSB Image T-45/Alphas Front, PSB Image 8C/100C Center, PSB Image 1B/Alpha Mites Surrounds
    Subwoofer Rythmic LV12-R/PSB Subsonic 5
    Remotes: Logitech Harmony 650 for both systems

  16. #16
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,908
    I suspect that's true - that the turntable motor uses a permanent magnet. I was searching for whatever Pro-Ject could attribute the DC name to, since the motor is AC.

  17. #17
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,710
    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob View Post
    It's still just an AC synchronous motor. The DC is used to simulate a permanent magnet. IE: AC motor
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •