Red Tails

[3LB]

I'm shocked there's not already a thread on this. I plan to go see it, though I'm going to prolly have to employ a lot of suspension of disbelief. I've seen the trailer and some of the technical content seems to be taking a lot of liberties about the capabilities of WW-II aircraft. Should look spectacular though.

What isn't spectacular however, is how long it's taken to get this project off the ground (developement started in '88). George Lucas has fronted a bunch of his own money for this movie, as major studios didn't think the premise was lucrative enough. I just hope it doesn't flounder because it's a somewhat been there seen that proposition with regards to the story (HBO did an excellent movie of its own, The Tuskegee Airmen, several years ago).

[Hyfi]

Not sure this interests me. Cuba does not seem to fit the part from the trailers I have seen but really, I am just tired of all the war related movies being thrown at us to keep us all patriotic while we continue to support and fight wars we have no business being involved in.

[recoveryone]

From the trailers it looks to follow the same story line as the HBO movie, The story line is not mainly about war, but the racial challenges that a few men endured while only asking to do what others were doing. And Cuba was in the HBO version also as a pilot

[Worf101]

I of course, will be there front and center. I've outfitted myself with a "fairly" accurate pilots uniform for the occaission. I'll post pics on Sat or Monday. My thoughts on the film going in are the following:

Graphics and Flight Models:
From a military historical perspective they've gotten a lot more right than they do wrong. I'm a military historian and a rivet head. Recent films like "Pearl Harbor" and "Fly Boys" made my head want to explode. In the former the P-40's and Zero's flew around like X-Wings and Tie-Fighters. But a cetain amount of this has to be expected in any movie. From the trailers the ships tend to be modeled correctly altough some of the German squadron markings are "off". At least the planes look right. Except for the Battle of Britain, most WWII airplane engagements were akin to Pilot A who's above and behind Opponent B, drops down on him and kills him before he knew what happened. Not very entertaining. As long as they keep it within reason, a certain amount of run and gun is expected.

History:
Lucas said on the Daily show that this movie is NOT about the politics of the Tuskegee Airmen but about their bravery. I contend that their contribution was not extraordinary to a thousand other Squadrons UNLESS you put it in historical context. However Lucas said all he wanted to do was make a film about heoric, young pilots in WWII who just happened to be black. Where he's bucking the system with this one is that in all Big Ethnic Blockbusters... well most anyway, you MUST have a white male lead to sell the product to middleclass white America...

"Dances With Wolves" - Costner
"Last Samurai" - Cruise
"Glory" - Matthew Broderick
"The Help" - I'm being facetious.

That is why he claims it too him sooooooo long to get the film green lighted. I believe he oughtta know.

Personally, I just hope it's a good film Lucas's track record hasn't been too good of late. Here's hoping he strikes gold here.

Worf

[3LB]

Graphics and Flight Models:
From a military historical perspective they've gotten a lot more right than they do wrong. I'm a military historian and a rivet head. Recent films like "Pearl Harbor" and "Fly Boys" made my head want to explode. In the former the P-40's and Zero's flew around like X-Wings and Tie-Fighters. But a cetain amount of this has to be expected in any movie. From the trailers the ships tend to be modeled correctly altough some of the German squadron markings are "off". At least the planes look right. Except for the Battle of Britain, most WWII airplane engagements were akin to Pilot A who's above and behind Opponent B, drops down on him and kills him before he knew what happened. Not very entertaining. As long as they keep it within reason, a certain amount of run and gun is expected.

I know its gotta be entertaining for the gamer crowd, but there's a few moments in the trailer that just a tad too incredible. I don't think that there were too many ME 262s in action for one thing, so it'll be intersting to see how they use them in this story. But yeah, I remember those flight scenes in Pearl Harbor where P40s are flying around like F14s. Hell, if they could really fly like that... anyway. It will be fun to see ME 262s being depicted - my goodness, they were one of the most gorgeous planes ever. I saw the one at the Smithsonian - a real stunner.

History:
Lucas said on the Daily show that this movie is NOT about the politics of the Tuskegee Airmen but about their bravery. I contend that their contribution was not extraordinary to a thousand other Squadrons UNLESS you put it in historical context. However Lucas said all he wanted to do was make a film about heoric, young pilots in WWII who just happened to be black.

Well geez, that's like doing a Willie Mays bio about a baseball player who just happened to be black. That's Lucas not wanting to scare off investors and studios execs. He prolly doesn't want too much story anyway, as it will compete with all those cool CGI dog-fights. This is the guy who brought us Star Wars and more Star Wars afterall

Where he's bucking the system with this one is that in all Big Ethnic Blockbusters... well most anyway, you MUST have a white male lead to sell the product to middleclass white America...

except for a brief appearence by Gerald McSimon&Simon to champion the cause that is true, the leads are African-American. You'd like to think that wouldn't be a detractor, but...

[Kam]

Lucas had no investors or studio execs to scare off. He funded the movie himself. Dug into his pockets and pulled out the $58mm production budget and an additional $35+ million to help with distribution.

If this movie does well, it goes right back to the people who made the movie and took all the risk to get it made. The studios cut, in this case, Fox for helping distribute, will, i can only hope, be minimal. The support for this movie won't just be on the opening weekend, but the first month, when the studio gets the higher cut of the boxoffice, and the dvd sales/rentals, and how well it is viewed on cable and then network. Most movies make money, eventually. There are very few actual 'bombs'

[Worf101]

I thought the film was "alright". The "cliches" killed it for me. If I'd wanted cliches I'd a put "Air Force" or "God is my Co-Pilot" in the DVD. It wasn't the worst I'd seen but for 50 some odd million I expected more. Not special effects, those were "fine" I wanted a story. I enjoyed the HBO movie far more, maybe because it was the first, but all in all the film left me flat. There was polite applause afterwards but that was about it. It was "okay" and I was hoping for so much more.

It was far superior to "The Red Baron" about on par with "Fly Boys" no where in the neighborhood of "12 O'Clock High" or "Command Decision", but I'm jaded. I enjoyed the 2nd scene in the Officers Club the most it was funny, sad and poignant all at the same time. My greatest test of a film is if it can stand a 2nd viewing and sadly this could not BUT if it's a choice between 'Red Tails" and no air film at all, gimme this every time. "C+" grade from me

Worf...

PS I met the woman who produced and filmed the great documentary "Red Tailed Angels" about a week ago, she didn't even know that "Red Tails" existed... Can't wait to get her thoughts.

[Worf101]

Still, even though its wasn't "Star Wars" it got me excited. How excited, enough for me to play "dress up" like some fat old nerd. Not so fat though I couldn't fit in an authentic A2.



15 year old Avirex A2. They had the militray contract for making A2/G1's for the U.S. Military at the time and were making pretty good A2 replicas. This one has it all, including inside watermarks and no side pockets. Good thing I've lost some weight lately, thing fits like a glove. Real Horsehide to boot.

Worf

[recoveryone]

I'm glad you posted a pic, cuz you were about to lose 150 cool points from that description you gave. :-D

[Kam]

It surpassed quite a few industry expectations at the boxoffice and made $19.1MM in second place behind Underworld 4.

Given it was also a playoff weekend in several major markets, that's not too bad, the real test (as if opening wasn't a test enough) will be how it holds up on the second weekend, without any football competition but going up against Liam Neeson and The Grey.

[Poultrygeist]

Worf,

I know you like military aircraft so here's a picture of my son, a Flying Tiger and "hog driver".

[3LB]

cool pic^

I seen one of these do a demo at an air show. Relatively quiet coming at you from over a hill or ridge. Amazing payload capabilities as well. And they can take a good deal of punishment.

[Poultrygeist]

The Warthog will fly with one engine blown off and the pilot sits in a titanium bath tub that will stop a 20mm round. They've been up-fitted for all the smart weaponry.

[Worf101]

Worf,

I know you like military aircraft so here's a picture of my son, a Flying Tiger and "hog driver".

Thanks for the Pic P.G. Tell him I said "thanks for his service" and "Keep Em Flying"!!!!

Worf