Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 66
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: 2011 California Audio Show

  1. #1
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Oaktown!
    Posts
    1,774

    2011 California Audio Show

    Just finished up day one. Got up at 530am this morning and now just getting home about 1130. Can't wait to sleep.

    I have to say I was fearful at first when I saw the size of the rooms - but actually everything has been sounding pretty good, even the massive Salk Soundscapes in a tiny room with AVA gear and Salk's new Streamer.

    This will just be a short write up.

    Lots of digital front ends controlled by Mac products. Lots of $2k range bookshelf speakers. A better variety of music than I heard at this year's CES or last years RMAF.

    I heard the Magico Q3 in the Audio Image room - more details to come - heard folk/blue grass and a Bach pipe organ - and while everything was perfect - it was rather emotionally empty.

    The Soundscape room was showing off some entry level Vincent components with Martin Logan bookshelf speakers and new Martin Logan electro-stats. ummm...I'm going to reserve judgement and opinion till I go back on Sunday.

    Playback Design had these fantastic looking and great sounding $2k bookshelf speakers from Evolution Acoustics backed by $30.000 worth of gear. It sounds good - put honestly it is such an unrealistic pairing of components.

    Audible Arts room was showing off the Usher Mini 2 (massive floorstanders btw) and I was very surprised and pleased at the sound. Very musical. Anyone in the market for $5k floorstanders should check these out. But they are big and powerful. I made a joke that if these are the Usher Mini's I'd hate to see their Grands. o which the guy replayed...Usher doesn't make Grands. Whoa... over the head.

    I stopped in the Brodmann room first. They urgently needed the FS series speakers I had on hand so I brought them in. I have to say - having been listening to them for the past two months under ideal set up circumstances they do sound pretty damn good for $5k speakers. They offer up more of the blood and the body of music more than I've heard in most over systems at the show, so far, in that price.

    The Angle City Audio Room was showing the Trinity speakers and Melody mono blocks. Man the mid-range on these massive $2k speakers is hard to beat. Heard a violin piece in there and it was - for all intensive purposes that I can remember off hand - the first time I heard a violin on a system do that cool trick where it can sound like a hollow whistle. There is something to these speakers. And the low end was much tighter and cohesive than I've been able to get from the Trinities in my room. Now I'm thinking it is either a combo of my Mystere ia11 and room + the Tinities makes bad jojo. But I'm bring the sublime Melody AN211 home after the show to test out that combo in my apt.

    I spent a lot of time in the Fritz/WyWires room tonight. They were spinning the most vinyl and frankly having a good time. Plus happy hr. started at 430 in that room. It took some time but the $1750 bookshelves from Fritz started to grow on me. They have a relaxed presented with a supple and detailed vocal range. Granted the WyWires and vinyl helped give them what they had to play with - but I am hearing something there before I've not heard int he Fritz speakers before.

    SimpliFi Audio - Tim was playing the Gradient (sp?) speakers - more info to follow - fack me if I wanted a clean bass rocking system with the thwap of a pile driver I'd be buying up this $20k system. Massive and detailed bass and some emotion behind a pure digital system. I didn't stay as long as I'd like and will be back in the room before the weekend is out. I'll also have my review of the PSI A14M speakers | RME Babyface USB DAC | DMR cables from SimpliFi out very soon.

    Well - that is it so far. TIme for me to go to bed. I dropped in a few other rooms - most things sounded good and after the show most of those showing - at least those in the after party I was in - were in good spirits and seemed to be enjoying themselves.

    What did you hear?
    vlad008 likes this.

  2. #2
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Oaktown!
    Posts
    1,774
    So no other AudioReview member attended the show?

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central Ohio
    Posts
    6,307
    I want to hear more about the Magico speakers.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  4. #4
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    5,421
    Adam, did you get a chance to go to the Salk/Van Alstine room? I hear that it was a big hit. VA has a new Hybrid Amp that is a beast. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=96298.0
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  5. #5
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    355
    Since you asked:

    (1) I hated the sound in the MBL room: mate a 1,000 watt ss amp to a digital source, to a bright speaker, and you got sound that caused me to flee the room as fast as I could! "Audiophiles" who never attend live acoustic musical events, may well LOVE this kind of bright, etched sound. Lot's of sizzle, but no tonal beauty whatsoever.

    (2) The Audio Note speakers were limited, because they only had a digital source, though the best one I have ever heard. The sound was OK, but not great.

    (3) The Magico Q3s sounded horrible on digital: flat, two-dimensional, with little dynamics or tonal beauty. When playing vinyl, the Q3s came to life: detailed, dynamic, with great timbre and density. On my Coltrane/Hartman vinyl, the system captured both Hartman's deep, smoky vocals and the liquid beauty of Coltrane's sax (an extremely sexy combination), On my Ray Charles/Betty Carter record, you could feel the heat between these two greats singing "baby it's cold outside". People even applauded at the end of the song! A cut from Sinatra's "Only the Lonely" brought me to tears! Later, I was in the men's room when the Magico representative came in. I asked him how he was holding up (this on the second day), and he replied, "great". He then volunteered that people stayed in the room longer when he was playing vinyl. DUH! An expensive, but great system, with the latest Audio Research tube equipment, including the D250 amp with the new KT 120 tubes.

    (4) I didn't like the sound of the big, expensive Wilson speakers in a huge room. The sound was stunningly flat, lifeless, even on the the fantastic Eric Dolphy "out to Lunch" record. Much better was the sound in the smaller Wilson room, this with the Sophia III speaker. Here Chet Baker's trumpet was appropriately dynamic, but, still lyrical; Pepper Adams' baritone sax was full and dynamic; and yes, Ray and Betty sounded sexy.

    (5) The High Violoncello II speakers (at a cool $80,000), sounded stupendous on most of my records. On the Chet record, Pepper Adam's baritone sax was as rich and explosive as I have ever heard it. The "Yulunga" track from Dead Can Dance's "Into the Labyrinth" was plain scary! Not quite as good on vocals.

    (6) Not as dynamic, but also exciting in other ways, was Audio Vision's room with the Nola speakers. Ray and Betty sounded as hot as they did via the Magico Q3. Stan Getz sounded like he was trying to seduce Astred Gilberto on "The Girl From Ipanema" (successively, my wife tells me). the system was lively, clear, dynamic, but never harsh. And this was using inexpensive Naim aa equipment. Via tubes, I might have well fallen in love with these speakers.

    (7) One of my favorite rooms was the one with the Usher Mini II speakers ($5,700!), VPI Scout tt, and Wells phono and amp. Here they played the stupendous Hugh Masekela "Coal Train" track at full, live SPLs! The SPL HAD to be WAY over 105 dB! With NO distortion! Chet Baker and Pepper Adams were almost as dynamic as they were via the $80,000 Acapella speakers. Oliver Nelson's classic "Stolen Moments" with Eric Dolphy on alto and flute, Freddie Hubbard on trumpet, George Barrow on baritone, and Bill Evans on piano was just gorgeous. Each great has an extended solo, but it all comes together in a meltingly beautiful finish. I loved that the room's representative (Wells?) played many non-audiophile vinyl, including Hendrik and the Doors. Let her rip!!! Not only do these Usher speakers sound accurate and dynamic, but they also look beautiful.

    (8) Another room I loved was the one with a $15,000 Vivid speaker and Luxman integrated amp with phono (only $6,000!). This little speaker looked like something from outer space (good IMO). Everything, from Ray and Betty to Coltrane and Hartman to Grant Green sounded soulful, organic and palpable. The music just appeared in the room. Perhaps not for rockers, but one of the best on classical and jazz (90 % of my listening).

    (9) Last, but certainly not least, was the totally unexpected sound in the deHavilland room with the 97 dB Sonist speaker ($5,895!), a Glow 5 wpc amp with volume control ($648 !!!) the Kara Chaffee Model 222 tube magnetic playback preamp, and an Ampex 351 tape deck. And, yes, with some unbelievably realistic reel-to-reel tapes, most just bought on ebay. Sinatra and Ellington ("Francis A and Edward K") brought me to tears! The sound on each and every tape was detailed, harmonically rich, with swelling, organic dynamics. Yes, I love my vinyl, and prefer it to digital, but Kara's tapes put my vinyl to shame. IMO, we are going backward in quality: from reel-to-reel, to vinyl, to digital. BTW, Mario of Audio Note, told me to listen to the Kara system. Mario later told me that he got Kara to play his tapes via the Audio Note speakers at one audio show. I'd pay to hear that!

  6. #6
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Oaktown!
    Posts
    1,774
    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    Adam, did you get a chance to go to the Salk/Van Alstine room? I hear that it was a big hit. VA has a new Hybrid Amp that is a beast. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=96298.0
    Honestly I think it could have used more space. The low end was very well controlled, clean, and punchy. The mid-range lacked dynamics and was pretty flat on most music and the high end was slightly dimmed.

    With some drum pieces the system sounded fantastic. While on songs as a whole it wasn't really cutting it. I'd have opted for the Audio Note 8k speakers and 5k amp above the AVA/Salk set up.

    Based off of what I've heard from the Soundscapes before - three times now - they need a big room. Hell they are big speakers. And I think they just couldn't get the gain up enough to get the speakers moving correctly.

    But control of the bass was probably the best I heard at the show. I think if the mids had matched in dynamics the highs could have been over looked. But in this case... Certainly not the worst sound I heard.

  7. #7
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Oaktown!
    Posts
    1,774
    I have to agree with tubeman on much of what he wrote - but not all.

    - I thought the highs in the MBL room were the most effortless and natural I've ever heard. The ultra crisp and dynamic snap not to mention the completely realistic decay of the high end had me enthralled. Mid range and lows were very good but they did seem to lack the ability to translate the timbre of each new CD. Who know if that was the speakers fault of the streamer/CDP. But out of the 9 different songs I heard - several from other folks CDs - it did sound like everything was from the same mixed master disc.

    - I really enjoyed the AudioNote room. I wish they had had a table to spin some vinyl but over all I think the sound was great. I'd be very curious what that set up would be like w/ their entry level CDP or TT2.

    - Most of the big rooms were wrong or boring. The Q3 came alive with some vinyl but were ghastly from the DAC and file server. I did like the Q1's but $20k for bookshelf speakers? Humm....IDK.

    - The AudioVsionSF room w/ Naim and Nola - awful. The image was so blurred and the highs were just chaos. I'm going to blame the Naim since I've yet to hear a Naim system I liked (well w/o at least super expensive Nordost power cables and other gizmos correcting their faults) - but Nola - wow there is a speaker.

    - The Usher Mini II room was really good - wasn't it?

    - Not a fan of the Luxman either - just too generic sounding.

    Other wise some others I liked and disliked.

    - The Sony room was a bit of a let down after I heard the promotion about it from a friend. The sound was too bloomy and the highs sounded like plastic.

    - There were a lot of $2k speakers. Some were backed by some similarly priced gear while others were backed by extravagant priced gear. Out of what I heard I liked the Fritz speakers for the soft natural mid-range they provided to vocals and horns and I liked what Melody did in terms of detail. The other $2k speakers - even those backed by a butt load of money - while they were good - they were also kind of a take it or leave it.

    more to come but got to deal with some work stuff now....

  8. #8
    Ajani
    Guest
    @AA & TubeFan - Thanks for the show feedback guys... It's always interesting to hear the thoughts of other AR members on different setups... Hopefully someday soon I'll check out one of these shows and post my own opinions on the different systems...

  9. #9
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Oaktown!
    Posts
    1,774
    Someone had asked about the Tannoy speakers.

    From what I understand and the couple times I tried to go in there was a good response and large following. But I tried to check them out twice on Sunday and both time I went in they were playing one of two songs I had heard so much throughout the event - so I just walked out.

    I hate to say it be we should take a stand and not even cover rooms that are playing lame crap.

    But I heard in passing a few folks saying they liked the sound and for the moments I was in there they were actually good sounding but I just couldn't stand the music.

    They were using some large sized bookshelf speakers but I can't remember which ones. There should be a write up on the room at Dagogo at some point.

  10. #10
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    355
    atomicAdam, I just HAVE to ask this: have you EVER been to a live acoustic musical event? I don't see how you could like/love the sound at BOTH the MBL room and the Audio Note room. They had NOTHING in common. MBL produced harsh, sharp, etched, but, unrealistic highs. Audio Note, in contrast, produced mellow, but detailed music, with extended highs. The Usher speaker could do it all. And, yes, Wells tested his system by playing all types of music at live SPLs.

  11. #11
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Oaktown!
    Posts
    1,774
    Obviously I've been to a live show. But there are two things at play here.

    1) No recorded play back music will ever be just like a live show - so I don't hold it just by that standard.

    2) You and I have different ears. We hear things differently. And that is fine. There are enough makers in high high to make sure everyone can get something they like.

    I like the MBL and the AN for different reasons. Just like I liked the Teresonic system I heard over the weekend at someone's home. Just like I like the Brodmann I have here or the PMC's I had a while ago. They all sounded different but they all sound good for different reasons. Just like I don't always eat a hamburger for lunch and dinner - I don't always like just one sound.

    But on the MBLs. I understand your reaction. That was similar to one of my friends when we walked in. There is just something there that we are hearing differently. I wish I knew what it was - that would be very interesting - but most likely w/o some real testing equipment we never will.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    355
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicAdam View Post
    Obviously I've been to a live show. But there are two things at play here.

    1) No recorded play back music will ever be just like a live show - so I don't hold it just by that standard.

    2) You and I have different ears. We hear things differently. And that is fine. There are enough makers in high high to make sure everyone can get something they like.

    I like the MBL and the AN for different reasons. Just like I liked the Teresonic system I heard over the weekend at someone's home. Just like I like the Brodmann I have here or the PMC's I had a while ago. They all sounded different but they all sound good for different reasons. Just like I don't always eat a hamburger for lunch and dinner - I don't always like just one sound.

    But on the MBLs. I understand your reaction. That was similar to one of my friends when we walked in. There is just something there that we are hearing differently. I wish I knew what it was - that would be very interesting - but most likely w/o some real testing equipment we never will.
    I'm talking about a live ACOUSTIC show, NOT just most "live" shows that use amplification and speakers. Unless you attend classical musical events, it's extremely rare to hear live acoustic music. In all of my acoustical music listening, I have NEVER heard anything that sounded close to the sound in the MBL room. The sound in the Audio Note room, in contrast, produced, even via CDs, a sound that came surprisingly close to live ACOUSTIC music. The glorious music in the Sonist room, using reel-to-reel tapes, nailed both the subtle details and the tonal density of acoustic music.

    Yes, I agree with HP and JGH that the goal of hi-end audio is to reproduce the sound of acoustic music heard live. "It sounds good to me" is not really any kind of standard; it's just personal preference. Fine, but it's NOT hi-end audio.

  13. #13
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Oaktown!
    Posts
    1,774
    Quote Originally Posted by tube fan View Post
    I'm talking about a live ACOUSTIC show, NOT just most "live" ......

    Yes, I agree with HP and JGH that the goal of hi-end audio is to reproduce the sound of acoustic music heard live. "It sounds good to me" is not really any kind of standard; it's just personal preference. Fine, but it's NOT hi-end audio.
    You live in the area right? Lets go hear something together and talk about it. That would be fun. Something not amplified.

    But to the live music - it just isn't gonna happen - so folks think - what is truest to the source - and frankly that isn't going to happen either.

    Besides - when I come home I want to listen to something I like to hear that might posses qualities of a live musical performance w/o all the nasties involved.

  14. #14
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tube fan View Post
    I'm talking about a live ACOUSTIC show, NOT just most "live" shows that use amplification and speakers. Unless you attend classical musical events, it's extremely rare to hear live acoustic music. In all of my acoustical music listening, I have NEVER heard anything that sounded close to the sound in the MBL room. The sound in the Audio Note room, in contrast, produced, even via CDs, a sound that came surprisingly close to live ACOUSTIC music. The glorious music in the Sonist room, using reel-to-reel tapes, nailed both the subtle details and the tonal density of acoustic music.

    Yes, I agree with HP and JGH that the goal of hi-end audio is to reproduce the sound of acoustic music heard live. "It sounds good to me" is not really any kind of standard; it's just personal preference. Fine, but it's NOT hi-end audio.
    While I understand your logic, I think it falls into the "so what?" category... In other words; the majority of music created and recorded is not classical / other live acoustic... And most persons don't listen exclusively to live acoustic music... So using live acoustic as your sole criteria for high end is pointless to most persons...

  15. #15
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    355
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    While I understand your logic, I think it falls into the "so what?" category... In other words; the majority of music created and recorded is not classical / other live acoustic... And most persons don't listen exclusively to live acoustic music... So using live acoustic as your sole criteria for high end is pointless to most persons...
    You are missing the whole point of hi-end audio: reproduction of what you would hear live and unamplified. And, yes, that means that if you want your stereo to produce sounds like you heard at some "live" rock concert (e.g., a Stones or Who concert through thousands of ss watts and crappy speakers), you may get something that you like, but it has NO relationship to the absolute sound.

  16. #16
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    355
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicAdam View Post
    You live in the area right? Lets go hear something together and talk about it. That would be fun. Something not amplified.

    But to the live music - it just isn't gonna happen - so folks think - what is truest to the source - and frankly that isn't going to happen either.

    Besides - when I come home I want to listen to something I like to hear that might posses qualities of a live musical performance w/o all the nasties involved.
    95%+ of live acoustic music events are classical. Have you EVER been heard a symphony live? Check out the SF symphony, live.

  17. #17
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tube fan View Post
    You are missing the whole point of hi-end audio: reproduction of what you would hear live and unamplified.
    That point only makes sense if the source music was originally live and unamplified... Which it usually isn't...


    Quote Originally Posted by tube fan View Post
    And, yes, that means that if you want your stereo to produce sounds like you heard at some "live" rock concert (e.g., a Stones or Who concert through thousands of ss watts and crappy speakers), you may get something that you like, but it has NO relationship to the absolute sound.
    If all someone listens to is rock and their setup sounds like a rock concert, then it doesn't matter what live, unamplified music sounds like on that system... Absolute Sound by your definition is mostly irrelevant...

    Several years ago I went to audition a pair of Magnepan speakers at a dealer in Toronto (as you no doubt know; Maggie is a top choice for lovers of live acoustic / classical music). With my favourite albums, the Maggies were the worst sounding hifi speakers I had ever heard (even up to today). The dealer then introduced me to the Revel Concerta and Performa lines and I was in love with what they did with my favorite albums.... So even if Maggies sound closer to the Absolute Sound by your measures, I would never buy them... At the end of the day, we have to live with our system and our tastes... Personal preference is what really matters in HiFi...

  18. #18
    Feel the Tempo eisforelectronic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    640
    I think the debate about what an audiophile actually wants from a system and or what is true Hi-Fi is interesting. I also think it's interesting that this issue was actually addressed in the Magico review in the latest Absolute Sound.
    Audio Physic Avanti IV w/upgraded mids and crossover
    Emotiva UMC-1
    Emotiva XPA-3
    Peachtree Audio iNova
    Rega Brio-R
    Rega RP-1
    Sony PS3
    BAT VK-D5se
    Totem Acoustic Dreamcatchers

  19. #19
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    355
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    That point only makes sense if the source music was originally live and unamplified... Which it usually isn't...




    If all someone listens to is rock and their setup sounds like a rock concert, then it doesn't matter what live, unamplified music sounds like on that system... Absolute Sound by your definition is mostly irrelevant...

    Several years ago I went to audition a pair of Magnepan speakers at a dealer in Toronto (as you no doubt know; Maggie is a top choice for lovers of live acoustic / classical music). With my favourite albums, the Maggies were the worst sounding hifi speakers I had ever heard (even up to today). The dealer then introduced me to the Revel Concerta and Performa lines and I was in love with what they did with my favorite albums.... So even if Maggies sound closer to the Absolute Sound by your measures, I would never buy them... At the end of the day, we have to live with our system and our tastes... Personal preference is what really matters in HiFi...
    This is epistemological nonsense! Without some kind of objective goal or standard, audio knowledge is impossible. BTW, all the Magnepan speakers I have ever heard fail in tonal decay, micro dynamics and bass. Plus, they are horrible at anything other than high SPLs. Plus, they don't really tolerate really high SPLs (a very small sweet spot for the Magnepans). All the Revel speakers I have heard are more accurate (taking everything into account) than any Magnepan. Electrostatics, on the other hand, can sound accurate in tonal decay and micro dynamics. Plus, they sound great at low SPLs.

  20. #20
    stuck on vintage dingus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Graham, WA
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by tube fan View Post
    You are missing the whole point of hi-end audio: reproduction of what you would hear live and unamplified.
    its certainly not the point for me ...

    i want to hear an artists work that comes out of the studio. this is usually where the creative process first comes into fruition and what comes out of the studio is usually the best sound quality that can be had of the recorded work. after that process, yes recordings of live performances can be very rewarding, but it takes a rare live recording that can match the sound quality of a competently executed studio recording.

    besides, the re-creation of live, acoustic, un-amplified sound via a recording is fantasy... cant be done with todays technology and every recording requires amplification to be heard anyway.
    AR MGC-1, AR C225 PS, M&K V-1B, Pioneer VSX 47TX, Oppo BDP-83, Squeezebox v3, Vortexbox Appliance.

  21. #21
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tube fan View Post
    This is epistemological nonsense! Without some kind of objective goal or standard, audio knowledge is impossible.
    We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one... I understand the logic of objective standards, however I don't agree with your choice of standard and neither does the Revel design team BTW:

    http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2010/0...listening.html

    Quote Originally Posted by tube fan View Post
    BTW, all the Magnepan speakers I have ever heard fail in tonal decay, micro dynamics and bass. Plus, they are horrible at anything other than high SPLs. Plus, they don't really tolerate really high SPLs (a very small sweet spot for the Magnepans). All the Revel speakers I have heard are more accurate (taking everything into account) than any Magnepan. Electrostatics, on the other hand, can sound accurate in tonal decay and micro dynamics. Plus, they sound great at low SPLs.
    Well at least we agree here...

  22. #22
    RGA
    RGA is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    5,539
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    That point only makes sense if the source music was originally live and unamplified... Which it usually isn't...

    If all someone listens to is rock and their setup sounds like a rock concert, then it doesn't matter what live, unamplified music sounds like on that system... Absolute Sound by your definition is mostly irrelevant...

    Several years ago I went to audition a pair of Magnepan speakers at a dealer in Toronto (as you no doubt know; Maggie is a top choice for lovers of live acoustic / classical music). With my favourite albums, the Maggies were the worst sounding hifi speakers I had ever heard (even up to today). The dealer then introduced me to the Revel Concerta and Performa lines and I was in love with what they did with my favorite albums.... So even if Maggies sound closer to the Absolute Sound by your measures, I would never buy them... At the end of the day, we have to live with our system and our tastes... Personal preference is what really matters in HiFi...
    I still like the Comparison by Contrast article that Leonard and Peter wrote - and it works for any system or piece of gear or recording. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin.../audiohell.htm

    I don't think Magneapn does it very well - though I do find their appeal and I like the 1.7's perspective. I just find it's a very similar perspective across every genre of music I listen to. Dynamics is the most critical life energy of music and they're poor performers in this, IMO the most important, regard.

    However comparing a box right after it may make the box seem better than it really is. Just as comparing a panel on string music right after you hear a poor boxed speaker makes the panel seem better than it really is. When I first heard ML it was right after hearing some dumpy Boston Acoustic slim line tower and the overrated and rather horrible Snell B Minor. The ML Odyssey was so awesome compared to that.

  23. #23
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    355
    Quote Originally Posted by dingus View Post
    its certainly not the point for me ...

    i want to hear an artists work that comes out of the studio. this is usually where the creative process first comes into fruition and what comes out of the studio is usually the best sound quality that can be had of the recorded work. after that process, yes recordings of live performances can be very rewarding, but it takes a rare live recording that can match the sound quality of a competently executed studio recording.

    besides, the re-creation of live, acoustic, un-amplified sound via a recording is fantasy... cant be done with todays technology and every recording requires amplification to be heard anyway.
    Of course, we want our high-end audio systems to reproduce what we would have heard live in the recording studio! This should be the goal of the recording engineer.

  24. #24
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Oaktown!
    Posts
    1,774
    Quote Originally Posted by tube fan View Post
    95%+ of live acoustic music events are classical. Have you EVER been heard a symphony live? Check out the SF symphony, live.
    Right - but I actually hear a lot of Jazz bands (or rather one) often in a coffee shops here in Oakland. But I'm actually going - again - to Davies tonight.

  25. #25
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Oaktown!
    Posts
    1,774
    Quote Originally Posted by tube fan View Post
    Of course, we want our high-end audio systems to reproduce what we would have heard live in the recording studio! This should be the goal of the recording engineer.
    Right but with all the multi-tracking - dubs - and even now with virtual studios where musicians don't have to be even in the same state anymore - who is to say what a 'recording' session sounds like.

    If I had to have a system that sounded like most of the real live performances I've heard in my days - acoustic or otherwise - I'd most likely not be in this game. I like my home set up because it pleases me. I tend not to go to shows because they don't please me. Besides - If I want acoustic music I just pick up my guitar and play.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •