Home sub vs Studio sub

[Joe_Carr]

Since subwoofers just make the low end parts of the music is there really a difference between studio subwoofers and home subwoofers? I know that the connections are different but sound wise would both sound the same if you had two subs that are around the same price range and one is a home sub and one is a studio sub?

[Joe_Carr]

Basicly both home or studio subs just make bass so I don't think there will be a difference unless home subs have enhancers to make the bass sound alot bigger.

[Smokey]

Basicly both home or studio subs just make bass so I don't think there will be a difference unless home subs have enhancers to make the bass sound alot bigger.

You are creating division between subs that necessary might not be there. Job of a sub is to create bass as accurate as possible without bass being alot bigger or smaller. So an accurate sub is superior regardless of whether it is a home or studio sub.

[Joe_Carr]

Well so it doesn't matter if it's a studio sub or home both sound good?

[Joe_Carr]

I just thought that since both handle the low end it wouldn't make any difference. But I guess if both subs are good then home or studio subs will sound great.




Update:



Someone said this.


"Generally Pro Audio bass bins are not designed for low HT notes and will roll off a bit higher then 20hz, but they do it efficiently and with authority.

Look at the freq response - it would be good to hit at least 20hz.

If it's only for music you should be ok."


Is that true that studio subs don't go as low as home subs since it's only for music? If so then won't home subs be better overall then studio subs? It seems like studio subs or home subs sound the same just that the home subs can play lower tones.

[Smokey]

Update:

Someone said this.

"Generally Pro Audio bass bins are not designed for low HT notes and will roll off a bit higher then 20hz, but they do it efficiently and with authority.

That sound like description between closed port vs open port sub rather than difference between studio and home sub. The author assume that music will not have "low HT notes" which might be the wrong assumption since there are music out there that will have low notes (such as Hiphop or Classical).

[eisforelectronic]

I suppose a studio might be using bass bins, but I would normally associate those more with concert or event type venues.

[Joe_Carr]

Well actualy I been looking at home subs and studio subs on the net but the frequency response is about the same on both so I don't know why did they person say studio subs don't go lower than 20hz. Most subs are around 30hz both home and studio. But some home or studio subs are around 20hz.

[Mash]

Pro Audio "usually" refers to sound reinforcement where SPL and ruggedness trump bass accuracy and nuance. People at headbanger concerts generally are not interested in the nuances of bass- and maybe even not much of anything else.

I divide subwoofers into those that are servo-feedback controlled and those that are NOT servo-feedback controlled.

You can spend ungodly sums on true subs. Used purchases require due dilligence.

Velodyne and Paradigm come to mind for 15" servo-subs. I am sure there are others.

Velodyne offers a very nice non-servo 15" that includes a calibration mic. You power up this sub and hit "calibrate' with the mic placed where you sit. Ten repititions of a low-frequency sweep are used to set the sub's internal EQ for your listening position. This works very well for us but the sub is not as distinct at lower frequencies as is the 15" V-dyne servo-sub we have.

V-dyne also offers their digital 15" servo-sub which I believe also includes the calibration mic / EQ feature. Not cheap.

Youy can go as megabuck as you wish- we try to stay rational, so we have (in various setups, i.e. serious, semi-serious, etc to really casual):

Velodyne servo-sub, 15", two. Min freq about 14 Hz
Velodyne non-servo 15" with self-calibration (Great for TV) min freq about 16 Hz
Mackie HRS120 servo-sub (12") min freq about 20 Hz

These are really "woofers", not subwoofers.......
Cambridge Soundworks PSW 1 12" (two) Min freq... mmmm about 35 Hz. (Humpy response)
Cambridge Soundworks PS2 8" (one).... if you have nothing better.....

They multiply like rabbits when you are not watching..............

[Joe_Carr]

Well there are home and studio subs that are around 8in or 10in drivers and goes around 30hz or 35hz. Usualy these are the more affordable ones. But I see that the top of the line studio sub from Focal goes low as 20hz. Like this one

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SM11S/


Also the Genelec dual 12inch woofers goes low as 19hz even those are top of the line too from Genelec.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/7271A/


So apparently maybe it's true that studio subs don't need to play lower than 20hz. If so then it means home subs are overall better since they have more lower bass. I would assume using a nice home sub will be good using them on a recording studio.

[Monkey Mouse]

As I live in both the home audio world and also the professional world, I will add in my 2 cents...

When you talk about sound reinforcement subwoofers - ones used in concerts, clubs, mobile DJing, they all sacrifice low end rolloff for SPL. Studio subwoofers - used in recording studios typically extend just as low or even lower than ones for HT - most big studios have subs that are flat to 15 or even 10hz. Then again we are talking about monitoring systems that may cost as much as a big Mercedes. For those of us who have home project studios, there are options to get subs that extend to 20hz and are very musical with fast transient response - sort of like REL or JL sealed subs with more I/O options.

[Joe_Carr]

Well would you say that you can use nice home subs in a studio though? I thought original the studio subs and home subs will work since they just handle the low end part meaning they don't have to cover much of the frequency as studio monitors since those cover lows, mids, highs. But you can adjust the crossover so the subs will play high as 200hz or 100hz or lower depending on the speakers you are using so you can blend the sub with the speakers.

[bobsticks]

What is your budget?

I suspect that looking at the Focal and Genelec specs is a bit quixotic since we're looking at a modest computer-based system...no?

[Joe_Carr]

I was just wondering that if you had alot of money would a studio sub or home sub be better but looks like overall both are good. Maybe just the looks are mainly different on the two. But of cource I can't afford any of these unless they are around $200 or less. I was just trying to learn and see which subs was better overall. But now I know both home and studio subs are the same and good and both can be used in a studio or home.

[bobsticks]

I was just wondering that if you had alot of money would a studio sub or home sub be better...

I can appreciate your curiosity and, after all, we only learn through either experience or asking questions...I think Smokey hit the nail on the head with his first post. There are very few examples of things in this hobby in which one can declare an entire category of design "better".

[E-Stat]

... is there really a difference between studio subwoofers and home subwoofers?

The word studio has two more letters than home.

rw

[MikeyBC]

A bass bin is not a sub

[magtrw]

I can appreciate your curiosity and, after all, we only learn through either experience or asking questions...I think Smokey hit the nail on the head with his first post. There are very few examples of things in this hobby in which one can declare an entire category of design "better".

Because of this new radical design approach to producing very low
bass the Rotary subwoofer is in a class by itself. Conventional
subwoofers can not compete with this design because they are simply
not able to match the impedance of the air. Most conventional subwoofers have a very difficult time producing acoustic output below 20 hz at
audible levels. They generally require large amounts of equalization,
distortion rises rapidly, and even the most expensive available cannot
produce significant output below 10 hz. Conventional subwoofers
produce bass by high pressure (moving back and forth madly) and
because of this the distortion levels go up dramatically. Because of
the large distances the cones have to travel, transient response
also suffers. The Rotary subwoofer produces bass with low pressure
and the result is low distortion. The lower in frequency one goes the
better the Rotary subwoofer gets and transient response is near
perfect. I have had this Rotary subwoofer for over 2 years and this
technology for producing very low bass is so realistic and exciting.
Frequency response is from 25 hz down to 1 hz!!!!!!! Once one hears
this new and dramatic new technology for producing very low bass,
there is no going back.

[N. Abstentia]

You cannot use a studio sub in a home system, and vice versa. In fact, it's illegal. If you buy a studio sub, you have to submit paperwork to the proper authorities stating that your dwelling has been registered at the Courthouse as a true recording studio. You may also have to show them your business license.

Likewise, if you are caught using a home subwoofer in your studio, the RIAA will strip you of your studio license and may have to pay a hefty fine to get your license back. It's not worth the risk. Buy the proper sub for your situation.

[Mash]

The "rotary sub" concept leaves me a bit cold. I have experience with propellers and I have two related patents, so I am acquanted with the subject... This product strikes me as an attempt to build a pipe organ's bass pipes into a house.

A "home tryout" is simply not practical. Then there is the teeny question of the estimate of $25,000 plus for having that rotary sub installed in your house. Is the structure of your house stiff enough and strong enough? Would it be better to simply install a pipe organ?

You also have a cost problem moving the rotary to a new house- preferably to a "being-built" house... and you must also explain the related house mods to the potential buyers of your old house.

The 15" Velodyne servo-sub and the newer "digital" variation of same will be accurate down to 14 Hz and there is not much, if anything, below that. Besides, your ears do not hear so well below 10 Hz.

I think this is a product for those of us who have (or think we have) money to burn. The same people who buy Bentleys and RR.

[magtrw]

The "rotary sub" concept leaves me a bit cold. I have experience with propellers and I have two related patents, so I am acquanted with the subject... This product strikes me as an attempt to build a pipe organ's bass pipes into a house.

A "home tryout" is simply not practical. Then there is the teeny question of the estimate of $25,000 plus for having that rotary sub installed in your house. Is the structure of your house stiff enough and strong enough? Would it be better to simply install a pipe organ?

You also have a cost problem moving the rotary to a new house- preferably to a "being-built" house... and you must also explain the related house mods to the potential buyers of your old house.

The 15" Velodyne servo-sub and the newer "digital" variation of same will be accurate down to 14 Hz and there is not much, if anything, below that. Besides, your ears do not hear so well below 10 Hz.

I think this is a product for those of us who have (or think we have) money to burn. The same people who buy Bentleys and RR.

First, the cost is half of what you quoted, if one builds the enclosure and installs the rotary subwoofer. There is no denying that the cost is
still high, but custom products with limited customers will always be
expensive. The enclosure that I built is multi-functional and is also
used for storage of lumber below the rotary subwoofer and the side
of the enclosure wall I hang tools, etc. The house is has no problem
handling the rotary subwoofers output, and the room has been built
specifically for audio and video. When I decide to sell the home the
enclosure would stay as it very handy for the workshop area. The
opening into the room would be very easy to fix with wood underlayment
and new carpeting. The pipe organs that I listen to are huge in size, one example is the Mormon Tabernacle' s pipe organ with choir that the rotary subwoofer reproduces this amazing instrument with
stunning realism. Pipe organs have response down to 16 hz and a
few down to 8 hz! There are "many" movie soundtracks that benefit
from the rotary subwoofer with very low bass (one example is The Apollo
13 launch with bass energy below 5 hz. Telarc has put a caution on this
CD, because of potential damage to subwoofers. So, yes it is impractical
for most situations and the cost is quite high, but the performance is
incredible and there is no maintenance involved or worries of over driving
the rotary subwoofer.

[Mash]

About cost:

Pricing from http://www.rotarywoofer.com/pricing/trw17pricing.html:

TRW-17 transducer $12,900.00

Motor Controller $450.00

BT-42 Amplifier and crossover $1050.00

Design and installation, typical $8,000-$12,000*


Total $21,950-$25,950


*Note, design and installation fees include:

1. consulting engineering for the installation,

2. design and construction of the manifold at Eminent Technology

3. installation and setup of the TRW-17 by Eminent Technology

4. measurement and performance testing of the finished installation

5. travel for Eminent Technology employees

6. contractor fees for construction necesary for the installation

So building the "enclosure, etc" do-it-yourself, assuming no reconstruction-iterations are required, but including building materials, we might subtract $3000 for a total of $22,000. This also assumes we do not have to make Sears rich buying new tools and saws, etc.

[Mash]

http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/.../msg03734.html

There are many opinions, and here with some research:

Re: The "rotary" subwoofer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

•From: Tony
•Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:58:48 +1000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:34:16 -0700, "BobW" wrote:



"Don Klipstein" wrote in message
news:slrngb5vlb.4bn.don@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

In article <48B2E233.DA6DF469@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

BobW wrote:


What a cool idea! An electronically-controlled variable-pitch propeller
on
an electric motor that creates a subwoofer with response down to dc.

They claim to have measured this thing with it putting out 1Hz at
110dB(SPL), at three meters, with less than 10% thd.

I'm gonna build one. I can't wait to watch the movie Earthquake, again.


Given that 1) people can't hear down to dc and 2) most sound systems
don't reproduce audio down to dc, I doubt that the recording contains
(valid) audio data down this low.

IIRC, some movie theaters had systems that would produce "audio" down to
maybe 10 Hz as a vibration felt through the seats rather than actual
sound. But the data for this was encoded on film destined specifically
for theater viewing and probably isn't available on consumer DVDs.

You might want to rip some audio tracks and run a spectral analysis on
them to see whether there is anything worthwhile reproducing.


The lowest note I have noticed on a music CD is E0, slightly over 20
Hz. I have done spectral analysis of bass notes in that CD and found
general lack of content below about 30-33 Hz. The lowest notes lose their
fundamentals.

- Don Klipstein (don@xxxxxxxxx)


I agree with what everyone has said about the sub 20Hz response being
pointless. However, if you investigate the real response of most subwoofers,
they have dropped off severely at 20Hz.

So, if you're willing to pay their price (about $20K total) for superior
performance in the 20Hz-40Hz range, they are worth a look see.

Bob


Maybe, but the "fan" woofer still needs an enclosure, and it's still much cheaper, easier
and more reliable to collect a few used cheap car subs from eBay with low Fs (25-30 Hz),
medium Qts (0.4 or so) and decent Xmax (10+ mm) and optimize big reflex or bandpass boxes
for them - they will easily fill out the 20+ Hz bottom octave or two.
Tony

Amen on that "more reliable" part. The pitch change mechanism must be a wear item.
***** Are we really discussing Wurlitzers?