Peabody gets impressed by Klipsch

[Mr Peabody]

No, I don't think hell is frozen yet but I was mighty impressed by a pair of Klipsch Horns. They were driven by quite a system though. The Horns were tri-amped with no less than six Jeff Rowland monoblocks, a Esoteric CD playback system, system because it consisted of a transport with outboard power supply and a DAC for each channel, no preamp, the Esoteric had variable output which fed direct to the crossover and each output then to it's dedicated amp. Audiophile terms like "speakers disappearing" or "incredible sound stage" or "pinpoint accuracy" may not have applied but the correct term would be concert in your listening room more than applied. The music did reach concert level and remained crystal clear, the sound pressure was certainly easy to feel. The system was built for fun and enjoyment which was further enhanced by a feed from a computer and hooked to the computer was a music keyboard that allowed one to play along with the music or just play through the system. The computer's monitor was a 50" Pioneer plasma. The sound didn't have a problem enveloping the room. I was impressed by the clarity the Klipsch maintained and the pressure that was created in the room, and by overall sound quality.

From what I was told Klipsch still and did make good sounding speakers but you have to buy into the Heritage series. If I could find the right deal on some Heresy I might pick up a pair to play with. Not planning any drastic change but what's another pair of speakers, right?

As a side note the system had it's own dedicated power line which led into some type of power product but I'm not sure what it was. I think my friend said he used 28 pairs of Cardas cables in this system, Cardas Neutral Reference.

Another good friend, Frenchmon, accompanied me on this visit. Or, should I say I accompanied him, since he drove. We both had a blast and I'm sure he will be in some time later to share his experience and thoughts.

[thekid]

I have heard great things about Heresy, Cornwalls and the house sized LaScala's. Not something that shows up in the thrifts on CL except for big bucks. I probably don't have any amps that could drive them as intended so probably just as well.

Glad to hear you and Frenchmon had a nice audio "road trip".

[Mr Peabody]

The Horns are 104dB efficient and I believe the Heresy is 96dB efficient, so your Basic gear would rock them fine.

[harley .guy07]

yeah when I say that I am not a fan of Klipsch speakers that usually means the newer series of speakers that they produce. I have heard some good systems with there Heritage series of speakers when it comes to full bodied sound with good dynamics with amps of descent but not huge amounts of power. I would say that they aren't the last word in detail or imaging but they do give that concert feel with their dynamics and presence with good source material. They could be a good speaker to play around with and use if listening to rock music at louder levels. the other series of Klipsch seem to am a bit of brightness to them which make them somewhat unnatural sounding to my ears but every persons ears are different. And the setup you listened to proves that even sensitive speakers can benefit from biamping and having a little more juice to play with on dynamics. I have heard the same kind of sound from the newer cls series Cerwin Vega's as well. If you get a chance listen to the cls 215 some time I think you will be surprised by how well they sound compared to the stereotypical Cerwin vega sound that has scared us away from them for some time now.

[poppachubby]

Luckily for me, my Sound Dynamics can roll with a variety of Klipsch's better models. With the exception of the real top shelf stuff of course...

Today, I had the pleasure of sitting in front of a pair of Snell Series 7 Towers. What an incredible speaker. We had some old school Mac gear to power them, and a Linn Sondek LP-12 with Pro-Ject Carbon arm as source. The Snells are rear ported, but also have a tweeter in the rear. Odd design, but when set up correctly create an exceptional sound. It was my first pair of Snell...

[Mr Peabody]

I heard a pair of Snell once and remember them being really good.

I'm sure your speakers are decent Poppa but this system I'm talking about does physical violence to you. Have you been to concerts where the pressure just pounds you? It was like that when turned up.

[kexodusc]

How big was the room Mr. P? I've heard the K-Horns and a few others before in a huge room (8500 cubic feet) and at louder volumes, with the listener 12 feet away or more I found they outperformed a lot of other high end speakers in a lot of ways. I also found they don't like small rooms and short listening distances. If I knew someone with a very big room I would certainly through Klipsh on a short list of speakers to demo, but in mid or small size living room, a lot of their benefits aren't fully realized.

I always felt Klispch designed speakers for in-room performance (large rooms specifically) more than anechoic testing and such - with heavy weight on dynamics and maintaining sound quality at loud volumes (something a lot of speakers don't do all that well) this would lead to greater variability between people's experiences, but if you found the right room I bet they sing.

I totally get the "concert in the room" feeling your describing...the bass and midrange pressure you can feel in your chest...funny, for all the talk about imaging and soundstage issues some Klipsch speakers have, whenever I go out to concert amplified or acoustic music the sheer volume negates those characteristics a lot of the time anyway...I get the feeling more and more than holographic visualization in speakers is more a function of studio work than reality...

[ren9328]

My freind has Cornwalls powered by a Proceed amp, and a Mark Levinson 380s preamp and they do sound extremely powerful.

[Mr Peabody]

Kex, I think peoples varying experience from Klipsch is the fact that Klipsch is not consistent in their product lines. I wish I could remember the model I brought home some years ago to try. It was a large tower with two 10's and a horn. They retailed at $1500.00 but felt and sounded like a sub $200.00 speaker. They fell apart terribly hooked to a Krell integrated. The music wasn't audible when the volume went up. Inspection through the large rear port showed a lack of internal bracing or padding and what passed as a crossover was basic. This and hearing other models sound less than tolerable soured me on Klipsch. Hearing the Klipschorns was a revelation. To be fair to Klipsch I did hear a $450.00 bookshelf speaker once driven by a Creek integrated that I thought was probably one of the best budget systems I had heard. Also any time I have heard their subs they seem to pound.

To answer your question I'm not sure on the room size, maybe 20x14. What may have helped was an open door way on one side of the room and a hall way led into the room on another side. He had the speakers in the corners of the long side.

[E-Stat]

No, I don't think hell is frozen yet but I was mighty impressed by a pair of Klipsch Horns.

There is no question they are dynamic, but I could never get beyond the honky midrange. With rock music, they sure crank but I do not find them able to create a large space on acoustic music.

rw

[Mr Peabody]

I didn't notice the mids being "honking" but we didn't listen to much Jazz vocals. An Eric Clapton album sounded pretty good, Eric and his female background singers sounded natural enough. Something did happen in the mids when I hit extreme volume on the EC disc, maybe it was the beginning of "honking" or the effect of too much volume for the size room. There's no doubt though that the Klipsch is not the speaker for every one, like many areas of building a system the Klipsch require some trade offs. For instance, I have my doubts as to them being able to go to the lower extremes on the bottom end. They also wouldn't be for the person wanting great sound stage imaging. Good Klipsch just offer an alternative sound in the same way a Maggie or Electrostat or whatever speaker would. One thing I couldn't get over the Klipschorns are very tall and I didn't like the mids and highs coming from so high above the sitting position. So for me the Klipschorns certainly had a "wow" factor and fun, I couldn't see them ever being my main set of speakers.

The same person who owns the Klipschorns also has some Confidence 4's in another system with Marantz Reference. So he does have an alternative from the Klipsch when needed. What an alternative.

I don't know where I'd put them but I sure wish I had a place to put a few sets of speakers. I'd like to have a pair of Heresy to play with as well as a pair of electrostats. I settle for an older pair of Aerius or SL's. Neither would require a large investment of money, it's just the storage area to safely keep them. Ah, to dream

[frenchmon]

There is no question they are dynamic, but I could never get beyond the honky midrange. With rock music, they sure crank but I do not find them able to create a large space on acoustic music.

rw

I did get a chance to play some acoustic Jazz.One recording of Pat Matheny while we where there...and it was perfect...no honky midrange at all. But you have to keep in mind 3 Jeff Roland mono amps connected to each side for a total of 700 watts per channel. The system played whatever you feed it... it was as if the music was live in you house, or at a live concert....even a low levels it was just as transparent as it was loud. And when I say transparent I mean transparent 100%. Many audiophiles may not like the set up of the system because it was very very sterile....and the owner of the system told us he built his system to be transparent with nothing added to the sound at all...but very neutral. The system was really not warm, nor was it bright at all. It played loud...fast...and hard when it needed to be. It was just straight music with no emotion added to the sound at all...no warm tones or bright tones added at all...just a pure flat lined neutral music. So in that regard audiophiles may have a problem if they are looking for any kind of emotion...warmth or brightness. I'm not saying that the Klipsh could not be emotional, Its just the way the owner built that system...dont know how he did it...how he kept any emotion out of the entire chain, but he did it...I suspect it was the Klipsh. I have never ever heard a system with nothing added at all until that day.

One thing I did notice was his upstairs system. It consisted of a pair of those huge Reference Mono Blocks that Marantz sells for $15,000 a pair...I think they where the MA-9s1 and he had the Marantz control amp that goes with it...the SC-7s1. He had a Marantz DVD player hook up to it and that may have contributed to the system not sounding as good as I remember it sounded years ago while in North Carolina...and the fact that we had just had our heads banged by the big Klipshhorns system down stairs. He also had those very expensive Dynaudio Confidence C4's with the Marantz. The thing that I notice after my ears finally came back to normal after listening to the Klipsh/Jeff Roland/Esoteric system downs stairs was that the Marantz/Dynaudio system started sounding pretty good...and had lots of emotion. The only problem that Mr P and I noticed was that the room that system was in was to small for the speakes.

frenchmon.

[frenchmon]

I didn't notice the mids being "honking" but we didn't listen to much Jazz vocals. An Eric Clapton album sounded pretty good, Eric and his female background singers sounded natural enough. Something did happen in the mids when I hit extreme volume on the EC disc, maybe it was the beginning of "honking" or the effect of too much volume for the size room. There's no doubt though that the Klipsch is not the speaker for every one, like many areas of building a system the Klipsch require some trade offs. For instance, I have my doubts as to them being able to go to the lower extremes on the bottom end. They also wouldn't be for the person wanting great sound stage imaging. Good Klipsch just offer an alternative sound in the same way a Maggie or Electrostat or whatever speaker would. One thing I couldn't get over the Klipschorns are very tall and I didn't like the mids and highs coming from so high above the sitting position. So for me the Klipschorns certainly had a "wow" factor and fun, I couldn't see them ever being my main set of speakers.

The same person who owns the Klipschorns also has some Confidence 4's in another system with Marantz Reference. So he does have an alternative from the Klipsch when needed. What an alternative.

I don't know where I'd put them but I sure wish I had a place to put a few sets of speakers. I'd like to have a pair of Heresy to play with as well as a pair of electrostats. I settle for an older pair of Aerius or SL's. Neither would require a large investment of money, it's just the storage area to safely keep them. Ah, to dream

MrP...I think the Klipshorn can go very low....I don't think you noticed but that one contraption he had in his system...what ever it was, it controlled every driver in the speakers separately including the bass on the Klipsh...he kept going over to it to turn it down and then turn it up when bass was needed. He also kept going behind that contraption to switch a button. On one song we where listening to....sounded pretty good to me...you and I where both listening and liking what we where hearing. Then Chris, the owner got up and hit the switch behind that one contraption and then looked at me and said, he had forgot to turn on the bass, and all the while it sounded like the bass was already on. I thought that thing had plenty of bass...not artificial bass added like many speakers do, but what you heard was the natural bass as it was recorded. Remember the Klipsh horn has 15 inch sub woofer drivers in them and he had two of them being driven each by a 350 watt mono amp.e

And the speakers tweeters them selves only came up to chest high when we stood up, so in that regard, if sitting down, then yes they are tall. Tey are not really an audiophile speaker....I think I read some place years ago that the Klipshhorn where used in concert halls years ago.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon, even standing up the highs/mids still sounded like they were coming from a higher spot than my ears. There is no doubt the fact the system had plenty of useful bass but that is different than playing low.. The Paula Cole should have had more low end information as well the Reference Classical CD with pipe organ. With that being said, this type of low end bass is not found in many recordings. In fact, much of it was missing in my CJ system until upgrading to the CT6. I had placed the blame on my power amps when In fact it must have been the preamp. The Klipschorns definitely had enough bass to convince one they were hearing a live bass guitar, or force of an amplified kick drum.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Frenchmon, even standing up the highs/mids still sounded like they were coming from a higher spot than my ears. There is no doubt the fact the system had plenty of useful bass but that is different than playing low.. The Paula Cole should have had more low end information as well the Reference Classical CD with pipe organ. With that being said, this type of low end bass is not found in many recordings. In fact, much of it was missing in my CJ system until upgrading to the CT6. I had placed the blame on my power amps when In fact it must have been the preamp. The Klipschorns definitely had enough bass to convince one they were hearing a live bass guitar, or force of an amplified kick drum.

The Klipschorns have a know bass shelving below 40hz. It has a powerful response above that frequency. That happens to be close to the 42hz lower range of a bass guitar which is why it can reproduce it so naturally. Below 35hz its response drops like a rock which is why I always used sub woofers with them. If you mate them with either a 15" or 18" sub crossed over at between 40-60hz, and have a good amp to drive the Klipschorns, the combo is sonically lethal. In my screening room system I had custom 15" transmission line high powered sub under each Klipschorn, and four 18" subs handling the LFE. Put a Klipschorn in a false corner as the center channel - drop a screen in front of it, and you have a killer front speaker combination for a home theater or screening room. I absolutely loved this speaker combination.

[Mr Peabody]

I've had the Heresy III for a few days and thought I'd post some impressions. Happily I like them as much or maybe better than I thought I would. The midrange with my CJ gear is very good and the sound stage is better than I expected once getting placement correct. The down side is less low end extension than I'd like, a bit more difficult to get placement correct than I thought and extremely sensative to recording quality. I'm not sure how flat the response is on the Heresy but they will not add anything or hide a bad recording. I do not find them overly bright or harsh. They do sound full enough on a good recording and present a live aspect to the music. Despite the faults I find myself really enjoying these speakers and being some what amazed at how well they sound for the price. Of course, $1500.00 can buy some good speakers. The Heresy sounded very good on acoustic Jazz like Roy Hargrove. His trumpet was beautiful while drums had a live dynamic, the stand up bass was nimble and there was a lot of string and body detail. Although the stand up bass was very detailed it lacked that lower octave weight. Enjoying the Heresy really has me wishing i had the room for a Cornwall.

http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/heritage/

[poppachubby]

How big was the room Mr. P? I've heard the K-Horns and a few others before in a huge room (8500 cubic feet) and at louder volumes, with the listener 12 feet away or more I found they outperformed a lot of other high end speakers in a lot of ways. I also found they don't like small rooms and short listening distances. If I knew someone with a very big room I would certainly through Klipsh on a short list of speakers to demo, but in mid or small size living room, a lot of their benefits aren't fully realized.

I always felt Klispch designed speakers for in-room performance (large rooms specifically) more than anechoic testing and such - with heavy weight on dynamics and maintaining sound quality at loud volumes (something a lot of speakers don't do all that well) this would lead to greater variability between people's experiences, but if you found the right room I bet they sing.

I totally get the "concert in the room" feeling your describing...the bass and midrange pressure you can feel in your chest...funny, for all the talk about imaging and soundstage issues some Klipsch speakers have, whenever I go out to concert amplified or acoustic music the sheer volume negates those characteristics a lot of the time anyway...I get the feeling more and more than holographic visualization in speakers is more a function of studio work than reality...

This is so true. Like reading a poem. I really had a wake up call with my current pair of speakers, and it was all around this aspect. The home audition is a most crucial part of speaker selection, just for the reasons you described Kex. Thanks for sharing this thought, you took the words right out of my mouth.

On another note Peabody, I was able to hear a pair of Klipsch LaScala a while back. A local DJ has a pair for sale, and I went to his home to hear them. He had a rack of pro SS gear feeding them, and I was floored by the sound. Each speaker was in a corner of the room, as they are supposed to be. What a wonderful and sweet sounding pair. the instruments sounded so real.

I told him the soundstage was almost crumby. He laughed and pulled me towards the back of a room that was about 25 feet long. From that vantage, I heard the biggest soundstage I had ever experienced next to Martin Logan. I passed on them because of the sheer size and commitment to space they require. I more or less listen in nearfield, right now about 12 feet.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I've had the Heresy III for a few days and thought I'd post some impressions. Happily I like them as much or maybe better than I thought I would. The midrange with my CJ gear is very good and the sound stage is better than I expected once getting placement correct. The down side is less low end extension than I'd like, a bit more difficult to get placement correct than I thought and extremely sensative to recording quality. I'm not sure how flat the response is on the Heresy but they will not add anything or hide a bad recording. I do not find them overly bright or harsh. They do sound full enough on a good recording and present a live aspect to the music. Despite the faults I find myself really enjoying these speakers and being some what amazed at how well they sound for the price. Of course, $1500.00 can buy some good speakers. The Heresy sounded very good on acoustic Jazz like Roy Hargrove. His trumpet was beautiful while drums had a live dynamic, the stand up bass was nimble and there was a lot of string and body detail. Although the stand up bass was very detailed it lacked that lower octave weight. Enjoying the Heresy really has me wishing i had the room for a Cornwall.

http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/heritage/

One thing I discovered about the Heresy is that it really needs a subwoofer crossed over at about 60-80hz to really make the speaker shine. The Heresy is flat to about 60hz, and then drops like a rock below that. So you lose about an octave and a half of deep bass output because of that.

I am amazed about how so many people apply the characteristic of Klipsch older Heritage models to their new models. A harsh midrange has not been a problem since the Heresy II came out, and yet those who have not heard the speaker in quite a while always attribute a harsh midrange to them. The Heresy II partly addressed that issue, and the Heresy III eliminated it.

My old screening room used a surround speaker upgraded by John Allen(he did the customization on the my Klipschorns), the speaker model was called the SR-70a and was built by Klipsch(they build all of his designs). His design was based on the the original Heresy model, but he included some driver and crossover changes to the original design that yielded a much flatter response, and lowered distortion. Those changes he made were incorporated into the Heresy II. He subsequently upgraded the SR-70, later calling it the SR-70a, which further improved upon the original SR-70 driver and crossover network, and those changes were incorporated into the Heresy III. Every one of John Allen speaker system (HPS-4000) utilizes the SR-70a for the surround array, and it is nothing more than a more efficient and powerful Heresy III speaker.

The speaker you are listening to was part of the surround array of my old screening room system,

[Mr Peabody]

I think also the rep for being harsh comes from people like me who knew Klipsch by more of the mass market stuff and not being familiar with the Heritage secret. When i learned my friend had this mega dollar system and was running it through Klipschorn speakers I almost laughed out loud. Good thing I didn't, he was already committed to serving lunch and I didn't want crow.