Question for you audiophile experts. Thanks!

[jaxwired]

I recently upgraded my integrated amp to pre/power separates within the same manufacturers line. This doubled my power. Detail, clarity, and openness improved signficantly. I am amazed how good my reasonably priced floorstanding speakers sound.

However, there is about a 20% loss in bass slam compared to the lower powered integrated amp. Although the bass is tighter and more controlled. No hint of boominess that on rare occassions crept in with the integrated amp.

My questions are:

What is responsible for the improved detail? The amp or the pre-amp?

What is responsible for the loss of bass slam? The amp or the pre-amp?

I'm trying to decided if I need a better amp, of If I just need to get used to the new sound, or what I should do... Thanks a ton for any comments!

[Hyfi]

I recently upgraded my integrated amp to pre/power separates within the same manufacturers line. This doubled my power. Detail, clarity, and openness improved signficantly. I am amazed how good my reasonably priced floorstanding speakers sound.

However, there is about a 20% loss in bass slam compared to the lower powered integrated amp. Although the bass is tighter and more controlled. No hint of boominess that on rare occassions crept in with the integrated amp.

First of all, I am no expert.

It would be helpful if we knew what brand the electronics are and the speakers. There are several reasons for the things you are noticing. Could be that the previous integrated matched better with your speakers, have you tried a different pair for comparison?

My main guess is that the MFG has increased the midrange clarity and detail at the expense of the bass slam. If the bass notes are clearer and more precise as well as actually sounding like the bass it's played on and not just boomy and deep, keep listening for a while. I have been using a SS amp that's 440wpc into my 4ohm speakers. I recently got a hybrid SS-Tube amp with the same ratings. I started out with the same complaint. The more I listened, the more I am learning to not let it bother me as the rest of the sound in the midrange has become lifelike and true to each instruments sound, not just mushed together loud and bassy. Same thing is happening between the speakers I got with the amp and my old ones. Old ones with my SS can take the pictures off the wall, more expensive-higher end speaker...less deep bass(smaller drivers to start with) but again, all the midrange and soundstage improvements as between the amps.

There is a lot to be said to matching speakers with electronics.

I'm only giving my personal observations here, MarkW or someone else can go into much more tech detail than I can.

What is responsible for the improved detail? The amp or the pre-amp?

The detail itself appears to come from the pre, while the control of that detail is handled by the amp.

What is responsible for the loss of bass slam? The amp or the pre-amp?

I'm going to say the amp here but it just may now be a mismatch in speakers or intended to sound more high endy where tube lovers cherish the mids.

I'm trying to decided if I need a better amp, of If I just need to get used to the new sound, or what I should do... Thanks a ton for any comments!

How long have you had the new gear?

What are the pcs and what did you replace?

What are your speakers?

I advise to keep listening and see if you start hearing things never heard before, if the instrument or voice sounds more real. Ignore the loss of bass slam while you see if the note sounds like it comes from a Fender Precision, or a Rickenbacker.

[LeRoy]

Component matching is a trip. I used to have a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 bookshelf speaker that sounded freaking great when paired with my Denon H.T. receiver. However, the exact same speaker and speaker wire hooked up to my Rega Brio 3 was a terrible match. You will just have to do some experimenting with borrowing other speakers or other components and try to isolate which part of your new config is responsible for loss of bass. Maybe you just need another kind of speaker wire?

[Mr Peabody]

A couple of thoughts as a guess. If the detail and high end are significantly better, or more pronounced, the lack of bass could just be a perception of the new tonal balance. Like when you listen with bass and treble at "0" and then increase the treble it sort of makes the bass less promenant. Another thought, what is "bass slam"? With the separate power amp you should have more current and control over the bass drivers which gives a cleaner, tighter bass with less flab or rumble. As an extreme example Krell is known for excellent bass but when you put a Rap CD on it won't sound the way it does on a car stereo, no rumble or boom, in fact, it's so controlled Rap is no fun with this type of amp. I don't normally listen to Rap but it was very interesting to hear the effect of putting it on my Krell gear.

One other thing, just because they are separates is no guarantee it will out perform an integrated. Some integrated amps are built very good and can actually exceed separates. So it will depend on what you had and what you have now.

Also, no cables are between the pre and power of the integrated. You might try a different set to see what happens. If you want good bass I'd recommend Transparent. Their entry RCA's are around $75.00 or $80.00 last I saw.

Improvement in sound could come from either component but I feel most would come from the preamp.

Did you change anything else at the time, like speaker position, new speaker cables etc.?

[jaxwired]

Thanks to everyone for the excellent feedback. I guess I was looking for some confirmation on my own theories, which are:

1. The pre-amp is responsible for the increased detail.
2. The apparent loss of bass is really just that I am use to a slightly less controlled or distorted bass and the new amp is controlling the bass so well, it just seems like less bass. The bass is definately more controlled. But it almost feels abbreviated, like the hard edge has been rounded over, if that makes any sense at all. LOL.
3. I might be able to keep the new detail, but get better bass by switching to a different amp like a plinius or bel canto (both of which I could get used for the price of this new one).
4. The new pre/amp combo actually does sound superior, but I am just reacting to the new sound which I am not yet used to.

The manufacturer is NAD and this is all the current product line. I have switched no other components nor have I changed placement. The speakers are Monitor Audio RS6's. My cable is all Chord Company which I love. I have played with two diffferent Chord interconnects and some difference does exist, but it's not going to make a big enough diff.
I've only had the equipment for 2 days.

[Kevio]

My guess would be that the increased detail is actually the result of less bass. Speakers are the greatest source of distortion in a system. Distortion is especially bad in the lower octaves. When big bass goes into the speaker, a bunch of mid-range distortion comes out too. This distortion obscures the detail in midrange that you're hearing now. The solution is to get better speakers or add a subwoofer to the system.

[jaxwired]

Do you guys think that solid state electronics actually have a "run-in" time when purchased brand new? I've only got about 4 hours on this pre/amp combo and I am probably delusional, but it sure seems like the bass just started to sound more solid and prominent all of a sudden.

Another question, I've read that amps perform better warmed up. Do any of you leave your amps on all the time? Would this be ok (ignoring the power usage...)?

[Hyfi]

Do you guys think that solid state electronics actually have a "run-in" time when purchased brand new? I've only got about 4 hours on this pre/amp combo and I am probably delusional, but it sure seems like the bass just started to sound more solid and prominent all of a sudden.

Another question, I've read that amps perform better warmed up. Do any of you leave your amps on all the time? Would this be ok (ignoring the power usage...)?

I think your on the right track. It takes time for the capacitors to charge. Leave the unit on for a week and listen critically then. It is better to leave some on. When I put my Stratos back in the loop this month, I intend to try leaving it on all the time.

[Mr Peabody]

I have really not noticed much difference in my solid state gear when first turning it on to later in the listening session. I've never purposely left my gear on. Keeping the unit warm is what the "stand by" is for, isn't it?

Now my tube gear is a different story. You can really hear it change as it warms up. 20 to 30 minutes it loosens up and the coolness leaves but it takes a good 45 minutes before it reaches prime. So I really have to give thought about what I start listening with, whether the sound is all that important. I should let it warm up before listening but I can't bare wasting that tube time. Aw, the pitfalls of tubes, lovely isn't it.

[hifitommy]

the loss of slam might be that the new amp mates/interacts differently with your speakers. the area that provided the perceived slam may be less emphasized with the nad. the clarity could very well be because the new electronics are cleaner.

if the clarity is only in the bass, then the reduced amount of bass may account for that.

i would try to get the dealer to allow some other amp trials. this is where dealing with a real dealer with a store is beneficial.

all this is dependent on the fact nothing else changed like speaker position.

[pixelthis]

I recently upgraded my integrated amp to pre/power separates within the same manufacturers line. This doubled my power. Detail, clarity, and openness improved signficantly. I am amazed how good my reasonably priced floorstanding speakers sound.

However, there is about a 20% loss in bass slam compared to the lower powered integrated amp. Although the bass is tighter and more controlled. No hint of boominess that on rare occassions crept in with the integrated amp.

My questions are:

What is responsible for the improved detail? The amp or the pre-amp?

What is responsible for the loss of bass slam? The amp or the pre-amp?

I'm trying to decided if I need a better amp, of If I just need to get used to the new sound, or what I should do... Thanks a ton for any comments!

It might have "doubled" your power but not the apparent volume.
DOUBLE YOUR POWER and your volume goes up about five watts or so.
And the amp is probably a bit responsible for the increased detail , guess is that your speakers were a tad underdriven.
If your preamp is good it will pass the audio with minimal effect.
Dont know about your "bass slam", my guess is your new system is more accurate,
most rigs I have seen tend to emphasis teh bass, as that is what most want.

[E-Stat]

What is responsible for the improved detail? The amp or the pre-amp?

Either or both. I agree with Kevio that it is quite possible that you have been clipping the amp and causing some full range distortion that obscured detail. Separate preamps, however, typically have stiffer power supplies which can also add to clarity and improved dynamics. The very best preamps in my experience have power supplies larger than those found in some amplifiers!

What is responsible for the loss of bass slam? The amp or the pre-amp?

The most likely answer is that following the reasoning above, you were experiencing higher levels of amplifier distortion. Simple bass doubling distortion can be pleasing in that it adds false "richness".

I'm trying to decided if I need a better amp, of If I just need to get used to the new sound, or what I should do... Thanks a ton for any comments!

I would focus on treating the room and experimenting with speaker placement. Room induced bass peaks can obscure lower bass response.

I find the determination of audio quality differs from that of video quality. Although some folks like artificially brighter colors, most folks can tell what is natural. Sometimes high resolution audio signals, however, are not as *pleasing* once they are devoid of various kinds of distortions. Although I don't obsess over break in effects, my experience is they are real. At the very least, give the amplifiers at least an hour or so for the bias to settle.

rw

[E-Stat]

DOUBLE YOUR POWER and your volume goes up about five watts or so.

Perhaps you meant decibels and the answer is 3 db.

rw

[pixelthis]

Perhaps you meant decibels and the answer is 3 db.

rw

I did, nice catch.
And I didn't know the exact number but I was close.