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  1. #1
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    What About Mods Made To Existing Gear

    I wanted to get a bit of discussion on this to see how you all felt. I'm talking about these places on the internet or perhaps even locally that do mods on hi fi gear. A member was telling me about a local place that does mods on Conrad Johnson, one of the most familiar or most modded pieces I've heard of is the Jolida tube CD player. On the Jolida piece I have to wonder after putting all that after market money into it would you have just been better off buying a better player in the first place. Do these mods offer any real value, modding vs just buying the next step up? Do you think some tinker could actually improve on what a manufacturer's engineer has already done? I guess that may be easy by just adding better parts in certain areas but beyond that? For instance, this place that does the CJ will put in some type of extra tube circuitry for enhancement and rerouting. Isn't the big selling point in a tube amp "direct point to point wiring"? I've seen places advertising hot rodding Denon and Sony CD players and I'm sure you all have seen various other pieces that can be modded. I guess maybe the real answer may not be reached unless we could do some type of listening comparison between a modded unit and a similar factory piece at the same price as the unit after mods. Any way, thoughts, experiences?

  2. #2
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I think part of the idea is maybe a dollar spent on upgrades after the fact gets you a real dollar's worth of upgrade. A dollar upgrade on the original components translates into multipliers on top of multipliers and might increase the retail price by 4 or 5 dollars.

  3. #3
    Forum Regular Kevio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Do you think some tinker could actually improve on what a manufacturer's engineer has already done?
    Manufacturer's engineers are certainly fallible. Once a product is released with schematics and all, the design possibly gets a lot more critical review that it did while in development. Mistakes will invariably be found and improvements can be made through modifications.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I wasnt impressed with the mod done to my Music Hall CDP. IMO it sounds worse and was not worth the money. Mods are hit and miss.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  5. #5
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    My limited upgrading experience has been extremely negative but it's based on only a couple of cases.

    First, I had the capacitors on my old Phase Linear 400 upgraded from 5900 uF to 22,000 uF per side. The pro technician did a beautiful job but it cost me C$500. I heard no significant difference in sound. But of course Phase Linear 400 was a POS to begin with and I should have known better.

    Secondly, I had the op amps and connectors & wiring upgraded in my Assemblage DAC 1.5. There was some improvement in the smoothness of presentation. Again, the work was done well, in this case by Parts ConneXion, but with shipping the job cost over C$350. The money would have been much better spent towards a new DAC, e.g. a Cambridge DacMagic.

  6. #6
    Ajani
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    Thumbs down as well...

    My problem with modding is that there is no guarantee of improved sound. Tinkering with a manufacturer's design by adding better quality components may or may not improve the sound. It might make it sound worse or just different. So what happens when I spend the money to mod my equipment and afterwords realize that I preferred the way it sounded before? Do I get a full refund and the gear returned to its original state? Or am I stuck with a bill and an inferior sounding product?

    It's a different situation if you buy an already modded unit that you were able to audition at the store....

  7. #7
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    I wasnt impressed with the mod done to my Music Hall CDP. IMO it sounds worse and was not worth the money. Mods are hit and miss.
    What mod did you have done? I have a Music Hall CD25 with the Level 1 mod by Parts Connexion. I've never heard the stock version.

  8. #8
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    What mod did you have done? I have a Music Hall CD25 with the Level 1 mod by Parts Connexion. I've never heard the stock version.

    I used Reference Audio Mods and had new op amps, caps and clock put installed. It made the music more foward. It did remove some of the digital sound but it doesnt have the same transparency or sound stage and the treble is pushed back. The forte of the 25.2 was its transparency, sound stage and treble.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  9. #9
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    I wanted to get a bit of discussion on this to see how you all felt. I'm talking about these places on the internet or perhaps even locally that do mods on hi fi gear. ...Do these mods offer any real value, modding vs just buying the next step up?
    At the low end, I think the improvements can be meaningful. Frank Van Alstine got his start as a "tinkerer" at Jensen's Stereo Shop back in the 70s. He specialized then (as today) with one of the greatest value driven lines in audio history, Dynaco. I've owned half a dozen models over the years, a couple of which I built from the kit. What FVA did to a PAT-5 back in '75 was pretty amazing for what was a modest investment. Another category is what some modifiers can do with really inexpensive mass market CD / DVD players. As with FVA, they focus entirely on "go fast" pieces that make a difference.

    Feanor, I also did a power supply upgrade once, but I did the work myself at much lower cost and got a bigger bang for my buck. It was also back in the 70s on an Audire power amp. It was a nice 100 watt / channel designed by Julius Siknius that had about 20,000 uF of filter capacitance. Inspired by FVA's Double Dyna mod to the Stereo 400, I built an outboard supply with an additional 120,000 uF of capacitance and upgraded the bridge to a 30 A unit. I found four beer can sized caps relatively inexpensively at an electronics surplus store and used a readily available project cabinet. If memory serves, it cost me about $100. The amp's dynamic capability took on a whole new meaning driving Magneplanar MG-IIs. It would also play for a good thirty seconds with the power turned off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Do you think some tinker could actually improve on what a manufacturer's engineer has already done?...For instance, this place that does the CJ will put in some type of extra tube circuitry for enhancement and rerouting.
    I think one of the benefits is the ability to upgrade an older unit to newer technology, both in circuit topology and parts. I suspect the company to which you refer doesn't make any meaningful improvements to an ART 3, but could potentially breathe new life into an older PV-5.

    On the other hand, I've more recently looked into mods to my 90s Audio Research preamp by Great Northern Sound. The founder is an ex-ARC guy who has mod kits for a wide range of ARC products. Unfortunately, they are costly and I doubt they would offer the kind of value I've previously gotten.

    rw

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