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  1. #1
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    Grado MF1...stylus...bent...

    Hello everybody. Just getting into "audiophiling" in baby steps. This thread is kind of a help thread...what a way to start off here, but hey! Whatyagonnadoo!

    I recently attained a Denon DP-30L, a really nice direct drive turntable, I believe from the early 80's at a GREAT deal!

    I was detailing/cleaning it up, because it was of course used, not abused, but slightly dusty and dirty. I buffed up the cover...aircanned it, very clean in and out (insides were dustless!), took my time, now its nice!

    BUT! BUT! Here's the effed up part. The cartridge, its a tan Grado MF1 cartridge with matching original stylus. It came with a little stylus protective clip which I think Grado stylus' come with, anyway, since I'm new to this stuff and I didn't have any instructions on how to put back the little protective clip, I pressed it up onto the cartridge so I would snap in place for protection as I was going to do some final details.

    Then the suddenly clip snapped in two right down the middle and I ended up pressing the needle up against the body of the cartridge! It left the stylus/needle misaligned. The pain, you can imagine. I had to sit it off for a while...

    I used tweezers to straighten it out carefully. I slightly dented the cantilever but didn't bent it. The stylus is now slightly crooked from its base/rubber gromet, the cantilever is not bent. When I look at it straight on from the front the cartridge, the stylus leans slightly curved to my right.

    Now, I hooked it up and played a Jazz record (Madhouse 6), a spare promo LP copy I had, to test it out. And much to my amazement, the sound was fabulous! There was no audible noise that was out of norm.

    Before this I cleaned the needle with stylus cleaner and its nice and clean (bright aluminum) with no defects from what I can see and its still sounds great.

    So I'm wondering, its $75 bucks for a new stylus (Grado Silver), okay, kind of pricey understandably, but I really wanted to keep the deal sweet...Will the stylus in this condition ruin records?

    Should I adjust the tracking force because of the slight crookedness?

    Oh and the cartridge rides a little low, is that normal? In inches I'd say its about 1 to 2/16ths above the record as it plays. With the counter weight adjusted so its not forcing the arm down too much and not too light.

    Thanks for your suggestions and help!

  2. #2
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    Sadly, the only recommendation anyone can give you is to replace the stylus. This is a precision device although a very fragile one which is very carefully aligned at the factory. The damage you did means it will not perform as intended. Nobody can tell you whether or not this damage will accelerate record wear but it is highly likely that it will because although it looks small and light, the force per unit of area (pressure) on the grove walls can be tremendous.

    Tracking force should be set carefully with a force gage, usually a balance type, not a spring type. Do not rely on the amount of deflection you think looks appropriate as a substitute. Sometimes the tonearm settings are calibrated but even this should be checked with a gage which is generally not very expensive.

    Part of cartridge alignment is the height of the tonearm so that you set the correct vertical tracking angle. one way or another, this should be adjustable. Visual inspection is also a very crude way to achieve this alignment and most discophiles would not find it acceptable.

  3. #3
    Forum Regular Modernaire's Avatar
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    Thanks for reading my drawn out post skeptic!

    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    Sadly, the only recommendation anyone can give you is to replace the stylus. This is a precision device although a very fragile one which is very carefully aligned at the factory. The damage you did means it will not perform as intended. Nobody can tell you whether or not this damage will accelerate record wear but it is highly likely that it will because although it looks small and light, the force per unit of area (pressure) on the grove walls can be tremendous.
    Yeah, looks like then I'll take this the pro way and get a new stylus. I agree, although it may still sound good, the force might ruin records and the needle in the long run. And I do have a lot to listen too.

    Tracking force should be set carefully with a force gage, usually a balance type, not a spring type. Do not rely on the amount of deflection you think looks appropriate as a substitute. Sometimes the tonearm settings are calibrated but even this should be checked with a gage which is generally not very expensive.
    Where do attain the "force gage, usually a balance type" from? Why balance?

    Deflection? Is that the height from the recod the cartridge sits?

    Part of cartridge alignment is the height of the tonearm so that you set the correct vertical tracking angle. one way or another, this should be adjustable. Visual inspection is also a very crude way to achieve this alignment and most discophiles would not find it acceptable.
    Hoe do I adjust the height of the tonearm so I can correctly set the vertical tracking angle?

    It has the counter weight on the tonearm...is that something I need some gauge for?

    Is this the guage your referring to:


    Its the Shure SFG-2 Stylus Tracking Force Gauge.

    One more thing, on top of the stylus bent, I scratches the side of the cartridge too in haste with a screw dirver, nothing too bad. I did that as I was removing the cartridge to inspect if I had done other damage. Just a small little scratch I made with the side of the screw driver unscrewing the cartridge. Would that affect performance in anyway?

    Thanks very much for your time and suggestions for this "newbie"!

    I'll do some research as well!
    Last edited by Modernaire; 03-14-2004 at 01:46 PM.

  4. #4
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    The scratches will not affect performance. There are many sites which can sell you tools to properly align and adjust a cartridge. The Shure stylus gage in your photo is a very good one to use. Usually, when you set up a cartridge, there is an adjustable force setting. Set that to zero. Then adjust the counterweight so that the arm is in neutral balance. Then adjust the force setting to whatever the cartridge manufacturer recommends. In an excellent quality moving magnet cartridge it may be anywhere from 3/4 gram to 1 1/2 grams. Check with Grado. Use the Shure gage to verify the force setting and tweak it if necessary. Try to obtain a test record or some other record for setting the anti skating force. Usually there are adjustments to compensate and this force should be dialed in to match the vertical tracking force. On the test record, an ungrooved section will allow you to verify this setting. If the setting is too low, the tone arm will tend to skate towards the center of the record. If it is too high, it will skate towards the outside. This setting equalizes the pressure on the inner and outer walls of the grooves. It is necessary because with an offset pivoted tone arm, there is a natural tendency for the stylus to exert greater force on the inner groove wall than on the outer one.

    Here's a site that might help. There are others as well

    http://www.theturntablefactory.com/balance.html

    Good luck.

  5. #5
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    Thanks very much for your tips and knowledge Skeptic!

    Its all Chinese to me right now...I understand a bit, but once I get the guage and contact Grado, I should be okay.

    I did straighten out the cantilver very, very carefully and it looks straight to me now, but I really don't know how long it will last or if it will damage any records. I'm playing Chicago's Greatest Hits right now and as far as I can hear, it sounds pretty darn good.

    The stylus looks straight on the record after my carefull adjustments to the cantilever. I will just get a new needle soon though.

    Thanks again for your kind help and knowledge sharing!

  6. #6
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    If it's any consolation, this same thing happend to me more than once and probably to most audiophiles at one time or another.

    Here's two tips you should consider. Never let anyone else handle your audio equipment. Saying they are sorry after they've damaged it won't bring it back and they will probably refuse to pay for repairs if you can even get them to admit they damaged it. Never handle fragile record playing equipment (or anything else fragile) after you've consumed alcohol. That's another easy way to damage it (compact discs and tapes are a better choice if you get inebriated.)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    If it's any consolation, this same thing happend to me more than once and probably to most audiophiles at one time or another.

    Here's two tips you should consider. Never let anyone else handle your audio equipment. Saying they are sorry after they've damaged it won't bring it back and they will probably refuse to pay for repairs if you can even get them to admit they damaged it. Never handle fragile record playing equipment (or anything else fragile) after you've consumed alcohol. That's another easy way to damage it (compact discs and tapes are a better choice if you get inebriated.)
    Oh, they'll offer to pay for it and hand you a $20 bill. Further conversation usually ends with "you paid WHAT for a NEEDLE"??!!!?!?

  8. #8
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    I'm a little late to the party on this thread, but I concur with the advice to replace the stylus assembly. Unless the actual stylus is of the conical variety, the alignment of stylus to groove wall is most certainly affected regardless how true the cantilever appears by eyeball engineering. With an elliptical or line contact design, it's suddenly become a groove-grinder. The initial bending and subsequent attempts to re-align the cantilever have also weakened the cantilever through metal fatigue. Grado uses a series of telescoping press-fit, incredibly thin-walled, aluminum tubes in fabricating the company's cantilevers - more expensive models use a higher parts count of the telescoping tubes. (as few as three and as many as five in current models) As you can imagine, there is only one "right" and an infinite number of "wrong" alignments. Be glad it was an inexpensive Grado with a user-replaceable stulus and not a $12,000.00 (yes, that's the right number of zeros preceeding the decimal point...) Koetsu Jade without a user-replaceable stylus.

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