DTS ES and DD EX in a 5.1 System

[Lexmark3200]

What happens when a DVD that boasts a 6.1 DTS ES or Dolby Digital EX soundtrack is played back through a 5.1 system? Is anything "lost" per se without that sixth back surround channel? My receiver does decode DTS ES and DD EX signals, but I am only running a 5.1 array, yet I choose DTS ES and DD EX soundtracks from DVD menus when they are available----what happens when you play back films with 6.1 channel soundtracks through 5.1 systems? Is the "extended" sound somehow being "ghosted" or "matrixed" between the standard surrounds?

[zapr]

............It would be the same as running the front centre in phantom mode. You'll hear things localize between the rear surrounds........Zapr.

[Lexmark3200]

............It would be the same as running the front centre in phantom mode. You'll hear things localize between the rear surrounds........Zapr.

Thanks Zap,

So Im not really listening to "Discrete" 6.1 without the back surround channel, but kind of "ghosted" 6.1? Is it much different from 5.1?

[zapr]

.........If you were to run a test sequence on your speakers, when the noise comes to the rear centre it will sound from the two rear surrounds at the same time creating a rear phantom centre speaker. Listening to a 6.1 dvd on a 5.1 system, the signal to the rear centre would be distributed to both rear surrounds. Just for example, I have the T2 extreme dvd which is 6.1 and played on my 5.1 system, I hear sounds directly behind me. Although a centre channel would localize better...........Zapr

[Lexmark3200]

.........If you were to run a test sequence on your speakers, when the noise comes to the rear centre it will sound from the two rear surrounds at the same time creating a rear phantom centre speaker. Listening to a 6.1 dvd on a 5.1 system, the signal to the rear centre would be distributed to both rear surrounds. Just for example, I have the T2 extreme dvd which is 6.1 and played on my 5.1 system, I hear sounds directly behind me. Although a centre channel would localize better...........Zapr

Thanks Again Zap...

So, then, what is the point of a 6.1 system exactly if you are hearing the sixth channel's signal between the two surrounds of a standard 5.1 setup? Just some dedicated signal every now and then from the center rear?

[vivisimonvi]

So, then, what is the point of a 6.1 system exactly if you are hearing the sixth channel's signal between the two surrounds of a standard 5.1 setup? Just some dedicated signal every now and then from the center rear?

Depends if you find it convenient to place a speaker directly behind you. My receiver is 6.1 capable but I find it HIGHLY inconvenient to place another speaker behind me in my setup. I find the matrixed effect from two back surrounds to work very well (depending on how good your surrounds matrix a "back surround" effect). It's all a matter of opinion, although not a lot of movie soundtracks support 6.1. Heck, we've gone this far why not have a 10.1 system in the next decade? Just stick with the standard 5.1 setup with good surround back speakers... I would think adding another discrete channel would rob power and add more stress to your receiver anyways.

[Monstrous Mike]

Thanks Again Zap...

So, then, what is the point of a 6.1 system exactly if you are hearing the sixth channel's signal between the two surrounds of a standard 5.1 setup? Just some dedicated signal every now and then from the center rear?

I think these guys have covered this already here. It is similar to using the fronts without a centre and using the Phantom Center Mode. Any panning from right to left, etc. will likely sound better with a rear centre. Also any dialog will appear to come from directly behind you, if that is what is encoded by the sound engineer.

In the end, it really is a matter of opinion and whether you can position a centre rear speaker properly in your home. I think having a receiver that is 6.1 capable and matrixes the rear center to the rear surrounds is a pretty good compromise. It is a lot better than a 5.1 receiver which simply discards that rear center channel information.

[Jim Clark]

Bawhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahaha

stop it! You're killing me (wipes tears from his eyes)

bawhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahaha

jc

[Lexmark3200]

I think these guys have covered this already here. It is similar to using the fronts without a centre and using the Phantom Center Mode. Any panning from right to left, etc. will likely sound better with a rear centre. Also any dialog will appear to come from directly behind you, if that is what is encoded by the sound engineer.

In the end, it really is a matter of opinion and whether you can position a centre rear speaker properly in your home. I think having a receiver that is 6.1 capable and matrixes the rear center to the rear surrounds is a pretty good compromise. It is a lot better than a 5.1 receiver which simply discards that rear center channel information.

Fair enough.

[This Guy]

dude give it a rest. You know you asked this question about 8 times in the past year, we keep telling you, except you continue to ask the question as if nobody answered it. He's just messing with you new members. Do a search for this screen name, as well as "To live and die in New York". Both are the same person asking the same question over and over. I thought this guy changed cause he was actually starting some legit posts, but i guess that didn't last too long.

[Lexmark3200]

dude give it a rest. You know you asked this question about 8 times in the past year, we keep telling you, except you continue to ask the question as if nobody answered it. He's just messing with you new members. Do a search for this screen name, as well as "To live and die in New York". Both are the same person asking the same question over and over. I thought this guy changed cause he was actually starting some legit posts, but i guess that didn't last too long.

FIrst of all, "dude", you cant prove that I am "messing" with anyone-----I am NOT messing with anyone and I say that here with angst and disgust toward a glaring generalized comment such as yours----I dont know any "To live and die in New York" and I am not "messing" with any new members----I really did want to know what happens when playing a 6.1 DVD through a 5.1 system. Seems the characteristics of surround systems change from disc to disc in this scenario, so I was just curious. I think its YOU who needs to give it a rest because I clearly stated to the last poster "FAIR ENOUGH, THANK YOU" and was accepting his analysis of the topic until you stepped in.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Bawhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahaha

stop it! You're killing me (wipes tears from his eyes)

bawhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahaha

jc

Jim,

Dang man, I know why you are laughing and its too funny. You do not have to out any imposter, just wait and they'll out themselves.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

dude give it a rest. You know you asked this question about 8 times in the past year, we keep telling you, except you continue to ask the question as if nobody answered it. He's just messing with you new members. Do a search for this screen name, as well as "To live and die in New York". Both are the same person asking the same question over and over. I thought this guy changed cause he was actually starting some legit posts, but i guess that didn't last too long.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL........ouch it hurts.............I have no more emoticons to express my feelings.....hehehehehehehe.....ooopps here is one I guess that sums it up!

[JSE]

dude give it a rest. You know you asked this question about 8 times in the past year, we keep telling you, except you continue to ask the question as if nobody answered it. He's just messing with you new members. Do a search for this screen name, as well as "To live and die in New York". Both are the same person asking the same question over and over. I thought this guy changed cause he was actually starting some legit posts, but i guess that didn't last too long.

And John Beresford or something like that. 3 screen names and counting.


JSE

[Lexmark3200]

Jim,

Dang man, I know why you are laughing and its too funny. You do not have to out any imposter, just wait and they'll out themselves.

God, you clowns are too funny.....I myself am cracking up reading these hilarious posts you actually take time out of your day to write....I met clowns like you at the CES show and CEDIA exhibits in Vegas, and they exhibited the exact same behavior....until it went too far and they were arrested by LVPD when their opinions and accusations went, lets say, over the edge. But my god, was it entertaining!

[Lexmark3200]

And John Beresford or something like that. 3 screen names and counting.


JSE

Oh I knew it was a matter of time until I heard from you, Mr. JSE.....I have read and bore witness to ALL your posts on here, attacking innocnent people who are simply trying to learn and/or share problems with gear.....I KNEW YOU couldnt possibly stay out of this for too long, because, well, its just in your nature, isnt it? Gonna attack someone new now once again, are ye? AMAZING people like you actually exist in this world....absolutely amazing. Fun of the chase, eh, JSE?

[JSE]

God, you clowns are too funny.....I myself am cracking up reading these hilarious posts you actually take time out of your day to write....I met clowns like you at the CES show and CEDIA exhibits in Vegas, and they exhibited the exact same behavior....until it went too far and they were arrested by LVPD when their opinions and accusations went, lets say, over the edge. But my god, was it entertaining!

In Vegas were you? John Beresford went there to visit his folks a couple months back. Don't your parents live there to? Hmmmm, funny.

JSE

[JSE]

Oh I knew it was a matter of time until I heard from you, Mr. JSE.....I have read and bore witness to ALL your posts on here, attacking innocnent people who are simply trying to learn and/or share problems with gear.....I KNEW YOU couldnt possibly stay out of this for too long, because, well, its just in your nature, isnt it? Gonna attack someone new now once again, are ye? AMAZING people like you actually exist in this world....absolutely amazing. Fun of the chase, eh, JSE?

Huh? Attacking innocent people? When? Show me examples. The only people I have ever had issues with are you, TLADINY, and to some extent John B. You know, YOU. Again, who are all these people I attack? This could not be farther from the truth.

JSE

[Lexmark3200]

In Vegas were you? John Beresford went there to visit his folks a couple months back. Don't your parents live there to? Hmmmm, funny.

JSE

I dont know any John Beresford. And Vegas is where most of the consumer electronics gatherings happen to take place nowadays; seems to be growing in popularity as an entertainment mecca as well as convention nucleus.

[Lexmark3200]

Huh? Attacking innocent people? When? Show me examples. The only people I have ever had issues with are you, TLADINY, and to some extent John B. You know, YOU. Again, who are all these people I attack? This could not be farther from the truth.

JSE

PEOPLE-----as in the PEOPLE you mention above----PEOPLE I DONT KNOW.

[kelsci]

Lexmark; I and others some time ago explained very well this whole deal about EX and ES sound. We who answered you went into great detail over this subject. Some of the answers you are receiving here particulaly with the emoticons may seem funny but in a sense they are not. These members of this forum including myself just cannot believe that you are asking the same question on this topic again. Are you sure you are not suffering from some kind of memory loss? I do not mean that to be funny; I am serious. Also using a different name that you have used under TO LIVE AND DIE IN NEW YORK and asking similar or the same questions could possibly mean you may not realize that you have another personality that I would call a twin or mirror image of your current personality that does not allow you to realize that you have done all this before. There is a possiblity of a third personality under the name of John Beresford; MAYBE.... I found Mr. Beresford to be somewhat different in his nature and defintely more focused on the answers he received. I am not going to berate you in anyway here. I am simply trying to make you aware that there may be something going on with you that you personally are not aware of.

I do not have a EX-ES receiver. On my rear speakers, I hear plenty of sounds between the two rears if the soundtrack has been mixed to produce sounds other than coming from the the sides of the two rear channels. Sir Terrence some time ago explained the phasing angle which goes to zero which would be REAR CENTER. When you hear sounds coming from areas in the rear other than the sides, the best derfinition to call this phenomena is called CENTER BACK SURROUND IMAGING wether the disc has an EX-ES matrix track or not. FINDING NEMO has tons of EX information in the rear. A non-EX disc that also has plenty of rear action across the rear speakers is THE MATRIX.

[Lexmark3200]

Lexmark; I and others some time ago explained very well this whole deal about EX and ES sound. We who answered you went into great detail over this subject. Some of the answers you are receiving here particulaly with the emoticons may seem funny but in a sense they are not. These members of this forum including myself just cannot believe that you are asking the same question on this topic again. Are you sure you are not suffering from some kind of memory loss? I do not mean that to be funny; I am serious. Also using a different name that you have used under TO LIVE AND DIE IN NEW YORK and asking similar or the same questions could possibly mean you may not realize that you have another personality that I would call a twin or mirror image of your current personality that does not allow you to realize that you have done all this before. There is a possiblity of a third personality under the name of John Beresford; MAYBE.... I found Mr. Beresford to be somewhat different in his nature and defintely more focused on the answers he received. I am not going to berate you in anyway here. I am simply trying to make you aware that there may be something going on with you that you personally are not aware of.

I do not have a EX-ES receiver. On my rear speakers, I hear plenty of sounds between the two rears if the soundtrack has been mixed to produce sounds other than coming from the the sides of the two rear channels. Sir Terrence some time ago explained the phasing angle which goes to zero which would be REAR CENTER. When you hear sounds coming from areas in the rear other than the sides, the best derfinition to call this phenomena is called CENTER BACK SURROUND IMAGING wether the disc has an EX-ES matrix track or not. FINDING NEMO has tons of EX information in the rear. A non-EX disc that also has plenty of rear action across the rear speakers is THE MATRIX.

I do not suffer from any kind of mental delaipdation as you suggest; perhaps this topic was covered some time back, but I was not aware of the depth the topic possessed; at any rate, I really WAS confused to what I was hearing when playing back 6.1 DVDs through the standard 5.1 setup, or if I should even be doing that. I was here in this forum some time back, under this name, but know of no "Live and Die..." or "John Beresford" as you accuse me of (well, you actually cut me some slack on the Beresford issue)....so, your receiver is 5.1 only and you do hear sounds coming from between the surrounds? I dont understand the whole center back surround imaging thing.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

PEOPLE-----as in the PEOPLE you mention above----PEOPLE I DONT KNOW.

I wrote a song about it, wanna hear it? Goes sumptin like dis...

People I don't know...
I am in denial......
these people are me....
but I don't wanna agree

I am busted
Don't want nobody to know it
So I row along all alone
In the river denial

Why is my nose growing
were is all of this going
I cannot tell the truth
so my nose has been let loose

I row row all alone
with these people I don't know
I know I am lying
while rowing down de-ni-al

Oh yeah!!!!!

Hey that was good
Whew, all that singin made me thirsty

Hey hey what is that headed my way........Its your nose!! its coming after me

[kelsci]

Lexmark; You did not read my post carefully. I did not say that you are suffering from a mental delapidation. If there is something going on with you, I said that it is very possible you would be unaware of it. While I have more experience in the electronics surrounding home theater, I also have nearly the same length of experience with the psych business. I am writing answers to questions quite logically for a long time with a case of major affective disorder(an expression for "depression") going on since 1982 that has taken me on a very unpleasant roller coaster ride. Even as I type this, my brain feels like it was hit with a frypan and flattened like a pancake. A chemical disorder of the brain is nothing to be ashamed of today. The famamous and infamous have plenty of trouble with depression ( which is called a unipolar disorder) and the infamous bi-polar disorder, manic depression. I have also scene people who went into the throes of a psychosis(where people loose touch with reality and may cause other unwarrented side effects).

Lexmark; on the last go around, I went into the explanation of what you apparently are having problems understanding. I would have to search for a piece of info that Sir Terrence supplied me before going into this subject and attempting to explain it again perhaps with a better approach. Some of the technology I will not have access too but I think I could explain it enough. One thing you can do on your own that is simple and is what I told you the last time. If you have a DVD with the THX optimode option such as the last two Star WARS films, you need to play the audio section segment of the THX optimode test and listen to the pink noise tests involving phasing. There are two tests on that menu that involve the center back surround imaging. That would be a start. Hopefully, I will get back to you on the subject. Kelsci

[Woochifer]

I wrote a song about it, wanna hear it? Goes sumptin like dis...

People I don't know...
I am in denial......
these people are me....
but I don't wanna agree

I am busted
Don't want nobody to know it
So I row along all alone
In the river denial

Why is my nose growing
were is all of this going
I cannot tell the truth
so my nose has been let loose

I row row all alone
with these people I don't know
I know I am lying
while rowing down de-ni-al

Oh yeah!!!!!

Hey that was good
Whew, all that singin made me thirsty

Hey hey what is that headed my way........Its your nose!! its coming after me

Geez T-man, I can't keep up with you anymore! Member of royalty, sound engineer, comedian, poet, songwriter, emoticon historian, what's next in your occupational aspirations?

That was pretty friggin funny! The way that you put yourself into the psychological mindset of a troll was genius. I think either the FBI should come to your front door with some of their cold cases, or you just landed a part on the Sopranos (y'know as the poet psychiatrist laureate that cures Dr. Melfi's paranoid run-on-sentencitis, speaks in iambic pentameter from the 69 spot, and gets whacked by a jealous Tony in episode #11).

Hey, it's Friday and the first round's on me!