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  1. #1
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    I Think I May Have Been Screwed Over!

    Hey guys, a few days ago I decided to purchase a marantz 2270 off audio gon for my dorm room. I bought it for 250 dollars which is a lot of money to me. I called the seller twice, once to tell him my interest, and second time to verify he receive the money. I called him the second time after emailing him to see if he got the paypal, with no answer. Lastly, the day after speaking to him on the phone, I emailed him asking if he could provide the tracking number for me. This all seemed to be routine stuff for an audiogon transaction, and was problem one of the least involved transactions I have been a part of.
    He responed with " You are driving me crazy with unnecessary emails. I will ship it. Leave me alone"

    Upon reading that I was extremely insulted and I called him and told him how rude I found that and that I would like a refund. He hadn't shipped the amp yet. He got all flustered with me and told me he has better things to do than to talk to me and hung up. I wrote him an email telling him I don't care who is right or wrong I just simply want my money back because I think he was extremely rude to me and I am willing to sacrifice the seven dollars I would lose through paypal.

    Call Audio Classics ( they were the people who I sent my money to for him, he doesnt have a paypal) and ask them to return your money. I have no control over Paypal nor do I deal with them The unit is boxed and ready to ship, but I have another buyer. You ought to read all your Emails and phone calls. There is no need for your repeated phone calls over a simple $250 transaction. I just sold a $4000 integrated amp and the buyer and I have 3 Emails and that was all that was needed. I knew it wasn't a good idea to deal with you for I can spot tire kickers. There is no need for you and I to have any contact. Deal with Audio Classics and they'll return your money. Go consult your legal team and plan strategy. Gary

    I contacted audio classics and left them a message. I didn't respond to him, becasue honestly I didn't want anything else to do with that jerk. Plus he said we didnt need to talk anymore. A day later he emailed me again
    he said "IN AUDIOGON OR EBAY THERE IS A CONTRACT. IN A CONTRACT THERE ARE 2 MAIN ESSENTIALS: OFFER AND ACCEPTANCE. I OFFERED AND YOU ACCEPTED, THEREFORE THERE IS A VALID CONTRACT FOR BOTH OF US. YOU ACCEPTED MY OFFER, THEREFORE YOU ARE LEGALLY BOUND TO PAY FOR IT AND YOU DID. AFTER TALKING TO AN EBAY EXPERT, THERE WAS NO FRAUD INVOLVED OR MISREPRESENTATION ON EITHER SIDE. AS I SAID BEFORE YOUR CONTINUAL EMAILS AND PHONE CALLS EVEN AFTER THE DEAL WAS COMPLETED WERE TRULY IRRITATING. ASK YOUR LEGAL FRIENDS ABOUT OFFER AND ACCEPTANCE. I LOVE THE FACT THAT YOUR SISTER AND BROTHER -IN-LAW ARE LAWYERS, THEY MUST BE SO IMPRESSED WITH YOUR TENDER EGO. DID YOU SHOW THEM THE NUMBER OF EMAILS AND PHONE CALLS YOU MADE ON A MEASLY $250 CONTRACT. DID YOU EVER GO TO THE PHONE COMPANY AS STATE TO THEM THAT YOU ARE A POOR COLLEGE STUDENT AND WOULD THEY LOWER THE BILL BECAUSE YOU ARE A POOR COLLEGE STUDENT. WOULD IT WORK AT A RESTAURANT , COLLEGE BOOK STORE, CAR LOT, MOVIE THEATER OR THE TOLL BOOTH ON A BRIDGE OR HIGHWAY?GARY"

    I wrote back " Gary, look I am not interested in arguing with you. We clearly see the world very differently. You have two options, give me my money back or send me the receiver. Let me know what you are doing. If you choose to send the receiver I expect to receive tracking information when you ship tomorrow. In your second to last email you said you have another buyer. I am assuming that fell through. Send me my money or the receiver. If you choose to send me the receiver I will just sell it once it is received. Thank you."

    What should I do. I am afraid that will get screwed by him. I cannot afford to lose this money. Thanks everyone. I apologize for the length. Just trying to let you know what's going on.

  2. #2
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Most people conducting sales online are basically honest, but even honest people sometimes take offense to interaction that wouldn't bother most people. I'd suggest just taking it easy and waiting for the seller to ship. Your PayPal account should show you whether the money was claimed.

  3. #3
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    If in the event that I am neither refunded nor shipped the receiver, what action should I take?

  4. #4
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    More facts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmoney
    Hey guys, a few days ago I decided to purchase a marantz 2270 off audio gon for my dorm room. I bought it for 250 dollars which is a lot of money to me. I called the seller twice, once to tell him my interest, and second time to verify he receive the money. I called him the second time after emailing him to see if he got the paypal, with no answer. Lastly, the day after speaking to him on the phone, I emailed him asking if he could provide the tracking number for me. This all seemed to be routine stuff for an audiogon transaction, and was problem one of the least involved transactions I have been a part of.
    He responed with " You are driving me crazy with unnecessary emails. I will ship it. Leave me alone"

    Upon reading that I was extremely insulted and I called him and told him how rude I found that and that I would like a refund. He hadn't shipped the amp yet. He got all flustered with me and told me he has better things to do than to talk to me and hung up. I wrote him an email telling him I don't care who is right or wrong I just simply want my money back because I think he was extremely rude to me and I am willing to sacrifice the seven dollars I would lose through paypal.

    Call Audio Classics ( they were the people who I sent my money to for him, he doesnt have a paypal) and ask them to return your money. I have no control over Paypal nor do I deal with them The unit is boxed and ready to ship, but I have another buyer. You ought to read all your Emails and phone calls. There is no need for your repeated phone calls over a simple $250 transaction. I just sold a $4000 integrated amp and the buyer and I have 3 Emails and that was all that was needed. I knew it wasn't a good idea to deal with you for I can spot tire kickers. There is no need for you and I to have any contact. Deal with Audio Classics and they'll return your money. Go consult your legal team and plan strategy. Gary

    I contacted audio classics and left them a message. I didn't respond to him, becasue honestly I didn't want anything else to do with that jerk. Plus he said we didnt need to talk anymore. A day later he emailed me again
    he said "IN AUDIOGON OR EBAY THERE IS A CONTRACT. IN A CONTRACT THERE ARE 2 MAIN ESSENTIALS: OFFER AND ACCEPTANCE. I OFFERED AND YOU ACCEPTED, THEREFORE THERE IS A VALID CONTRACT FOR BOTH OF US. YOU ACCEPTED MY OFFER, THEREFORE YOU ARE LEGALLY BOUND TO PAY FOR IT AND YOU DID. AFTER TALKING TO AN EBAY EXPERT, THERE WAS NO FRAUD INVOLVED OR MISREPRESENTATION ON EITHER SIDE. AS I SAID BEFORE YOUR CONTINUAL EMAILS AND PHONE CALLS EVEN AFTER THE DEAL WAS COMPLETED WERE TRULY IRRITATING. ASK YOUR LEGAL FRIENDS ABOUT OFFER AND ACCEPTANCE. I LOVE THE FACT THAT YOUR SISTER AND BROTHER -IN-LAW ARE LAWYERS, THEY MUST BE SO IMPRESSED WITH YOUR TENDER EGO. DID YOU SHOW THEM THE NUMBER OF EMAILS AND PHONE CALLS YOU MADE ON A MEASLY $250 CONTRACT. DID YOU EVER GO TO THE PHONE COMPANY AS STATE TO THEM THAT YOU ARE A POOR COLLEGE STUDENT AND WOULD THEY LOWER THE BILL BECAUSE YOU ARE A POOR COLLEGE STUDENT. WOULD IT WORK AT A RESTAURANT , COLLEGE BOOK STORE, CAR LOT, MOVIE THEATER OR THE TOLL BOOTH ON A BRIDGE OR HIGHWAY?GARY"

    I wrote back " Gary, look I am not interested in arguing with you. We clearly see the world very differently. You have two options, give me my money back or send me the receiver. Let me know what you are doing. If you choose to send the receiver I expect to receive tracking information when you ship tomorrow. In your second to last email you said you have another buyer. I am assuming that fell through. Send me my money or the receiver. If you choose to send me the receiver I will just sell it once it is received. Thank you."

    What should I do. I am afraid that will get screwed by him. I cannot afford to lose this money. Thanks everyone. I apologize for the length. Just trying to let you know what's going on.
    Bigmoney, exactly how long has it been since you sent the money and do you know whether he received in? Assuming he got the money and acknowledges that, then the last email is saying in effect, "Fnck off. Don't ask for you money back; I'll ship the receiver when I'm good and ready and not before. (I've got my $4000 buyer to worry about -- you're small potatoes)". He is obviously a rude and inconsidate person at best

    I'd like to be clear on the role of Audio Classics with whom I'm not familiar; are they providing an escrow service? I gather you payed them via PayPal and they did (or were supposed) pay him. PayPal permits some recourse in case goods aren't shipped, however I can't say what the provisions are off hand. Also, it's possible that you have some recourse with Audio Classics but again you have to check that. In either case you might have to wait a period of time before they would consider non-shipment the situation a breach of contract, e.g. 10 days.

    As I understand it isn't possible to leave feedback at Audiogon currently without the agreement of the receipient, which is to say it's impossible to lea ve negative feedback. The good news is that you can tell us here his moniker so we can avoid him; there's to fear from doing so given that what you have said here is accurate.

  5. #5
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    I sent the money to him Friday morning. Audio classics is the company who serviced his amp I believe. They are serving as a middle man to get the money to him. I sent them the money and they will be giving it to him. He received the money. He was very nice and willing to communicate until I gave him the money. Once I gave him the money he thought I had no right to contact him anymore and that I should just wait and trust him that Ill get my amp at his convenience. This is because I only gave him a "measly 250 dollars" Which I guess is no biggie to him but is a lot to me. So I guess I just didn't feel comfortable giving my money to someone like that and figured I could look somewhere else for an amp.

    Audio classics should be open tomorrow, and I will call them to request a refund. At this point I just want my money or the amp. I am not a man to argue over things that don't matter especially with jerks like gary. If I get the amp fine, but I would rather have my money at this point. I surely know that I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone.Unfortunately I don't have his user name because he took the ad off Audiogon. Is there anywhere else I can find it? Possibly in an email he sent me?

  6. #6
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I Think I May Have Been Screwed Over!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmoney
    If in the event that I am neither refunded nor shipped the receiver, what action should I take?
    If you pay via PayPal and you're dissatisfied, you can file a complaint with PayPal. When I've done that, PayPal holds the payment until the dispute is resolved. However, at this point, you have agreed to purchase the Marantz. Wanting your money back just because the seller has been impolite isn't entirely fair.

  7. #7
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    I work too hard for my money to be insulted by someone and still give them my money. I can find a receiver anywhere else. My opinion is neither right nor wrong, but it is mine. I have already filed a dispute with pay pal and notified audio classics that I would like a refund. I am man of principle, and I think it is important to fight for what you believe in.

  8. #8
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    Do I understand correctly? This is Sunday and you paid Friday (2 days ago.) And this has spun out of control in this short period of time? Whew!

    I'd talk to Audio Classics on Monday. It seems they are in possession of the unit. Ask them if they are refunding or shipping. Then ask when. Then give them some time to do it, whichever choice it is.

    My one suggestion is to just be matter-of-fact with them. Keep them on your side as much as possible. You don't need another person aggravated.

    If you do receive the receiver instead of a refund, it should work just as well. The personality of the prior owner will not transfer to the unit.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular filecat13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlsstl
    The personality of the prior owner will not transfer to the unit.
    ...a fact I have benefitted from many times. Well written.
    I like sulung tang.

  10. #10
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    Bigmoney:

    This is a true shame that you had to be treated that way. The few times I've sold an item on Gon, I shipped it out immediately upon payment clearing through Paypal. Every buyer contacted me right after they sent the money as follow up, sometimes a few times. Nothing wrong with what you did at all. Just keep in mind that depending on how you use Paypal, it can take 5 business days before the funds are actually transferred to the recipient's account. Did the seller not explain this to you? All he had to say was he'd ship the amp as soon as funds cleared and thank you for the business. Instead he had to resort to abusive behavior and in my opinion, should be banned from doing business on Gon heretofore. I would wait a little bit and see if he ships it to you. After all, he did state you have a contract with him and he's obligated to make the shipment. If he doesn't at keeps your money, I would then contact the board of directors for Audiogon. $250.00 is a lot of money when you have tons of other bills. I'm real sorry to hear how this went.

  11. #11
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    the guy obviously has a short fuse and doesnt have much regard for those with tighter financial reins than he has. it also appears that Audio Classics is responsible for shipping the unit, so that timetable is up to them, or at least he doesnt want to make any effort to intercede here either. that said, regardless of how irritated he has become, it seems apparent that he fully understands his obligation in this transaction, so i think you will get either the receiver as agreed, or a full refund (he just doesnt seem to want to put much of a priority on $250 of someone else's money).

    if you do get the receiver, $250 aint bad for a 2270 that has been gone through by a tech (i am assuming that Audio Classics know what they are doing), and its supposed to be one of the better and sweeter sounding receivers of its era.
    AR MGC-1, AR C225 PS, M&K V-1B, Pioneer VSX 47TX, Oppo BDP-83, Squeezebox v3, Vortexbox Appliance.

  12. #12
    I put the Gee in Gear.... thekid's Avatar
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    Since the guy seems to have a loose screw I'd give him 3-5 days to provide you with the shipping info. If nothing happens, open up a dispute with Paypal. Paypal will contact the seller and advise at complaint has been made and how he will react is anyone's guess. However once Paypal is convinced he is not operating on good faith they will refund your money if the gear is not shipped. My guess is you will see the gear in about 7-10 days after filing the complaint or you will get your $ back in 30-45 days.

    Good luck!

  13. #13
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    More time

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmoney
    I sent the money to him Friday morning. Audio classics is the company who serviced his amp I believe. They are serving as a middle man to get the money to him. I sent them the money and they will be giving it to him. He received the money.
    ...
    Audio classics should be open tomorrow, and I will call them to request a refund. At this point I just want my money or the amp. I am not a man to argue over things that don't matter especially with jerks like gary. If I get the amp fine, but I would rather have my money at this point. ...
    BM, Friday to Sunday isn't a long time. Is Audio Classics shipping the amp? That being the case they, not he, will know the tracking number. And of course they will only know it once they ship it. Give them a day or two starting Monday. When I sell stuff I tell people when I will ship; sometimes I have to specify a couple of days delay, (though usually the item is packed and ready by the time I've received payment).

    There is no excuse for your seller's rudeness; (there is never an excuse for rudeness), however I feel you have been a little unreasonable expecting shipment over the weekend.

  14. #14
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Be patient! Geez......

    Give this guy more then 2 days, if someone would email and call me after 2 days and bug the **** out of me over 250$ i'd be pissed too. (i also work hard for my money)

    Take a deep sleep and inquire audio classics when they are open. But be nice!
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  15. #15
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    Hmn...

    If you sent me the money on LAST Friday, the 26th. Unless I had the thing ready to ship via UPS or FedEx I couldn't get it out before Monday at the earliest. Emailing me 3 times over the weekend might have pissed me off as well. But I would've told you that I'd ship it on Monday... if you kept buggin me after that I'd just send you back your money and tell you to grow up. You can't expect someone to ship out on the weekend unless it goes US Postal Service and even they only work half a day on Sat. Be patient man. The seller was/is a jerk but not a miracle worker. I've been both a seller and a buyer so I can see both sides

    Da Worfster

  16. #16
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    So, exactly how many days has transpired since he received the money and you started calling him? Not evne one weekend?

    Audio Classics is an up-and-up company, has been around foir quite a while, does good work, and is most certainly not out to screw people.. Since it seems this thing started Friday (what time was the $$ available to them?) and this is only Sunday, I'd say you jumped the gun big time and are acting in an immature manner. Re-read what they sent you. It's true. Ask your lawyer buddies.

    They are still within their rights and as long as they act in what is considered by reasonable people a reasonable amount of time, you have no gripe with them. One working day is well withn a reasonable amount of time. Actually, I'd go as far as saying that even one week would qualify. IOW, you jumped the gun big time and simply pi$$ed them off. Your lawyer relatives should have pointed this out to you, or did you not check with thm beforehand?
    Last edited by markw; 09-29-2008 at 08:59 AM.

  17. #17
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    I think some of you have missed my point. I simply sent him an email asking for him to confirm when he received the money and a follow up email requesting that he provide a tracking number when he decides to ship. He responded with " you are driving me crazy with unnecessary emails. it will be shipped. leave me alone". I didn't make any unreasonable deadlines or request of him. I simply asked him to provide the information when he ships and he felt that was an unwarranted request. I took what he said as being very rude, that's my opinion. Everything only spun out of control once he got all upset I wanted my money back and hung up on my. I love the fact that he tells me we shouldn't speak anymore and that he has another buyer but than a day later sends me another email in all caps insulting me and informing me of his rights. To me his is acting immature. Either way, before he made that rude comment, I had done nothing out of the ordinary. I think when I lay down my money I have the right to ask for a tracking number and that he notifies me when he receives the money. After all, maybe if I combined both of those requests into one email he wouldn't have thrown a temper tantrum. I don't feel I was unreasonable. As the buyer, I have the right to REQUEST a refund for his poor service and rudeness, never did I demand anything. I knew I wasn't entitled to a refund but I do reserve to the right to request one. After all we can all request whatever we want. Once he freaked out and started insulting me I just told him to send the amp or my money. I tried to be as reasonable as possible, but I am also not going to let myself get pushed around.

  18. #18
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Life holds many surprises for you, young man. Not all plesant.

    Lesson # 1 of many: You need to learn patience. It's not all about you.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmoney
    I think some of you have missed my point. I simply sent him an email asking for him to confirm when he received the money and a follow up email requesting that he provide a tracking number when he decides to ship. He responded with " you are driving me crazy with unnecessary emails. it will be shipped. leave me alone". I didn't make any unreasonable deadlines or request of him. I simply asked him to provide the information when he ships and he felt that was an unwarranted request. I took what he said as being very rude, that's my opinion. Everything only spun out of control once he got all upset I wanted my money back and hung up on my. I love the fact that he tells me we shouldn't speak anymore and that he has another buyer but than a day later sends me another email in all caps insulting me and informing me of his rights. To me his is acting immature. Either way, before he made that rude comment, I had done nothing out of the ordinary. I think when I lay down my money I have the right to ask for a tracking number and that he notifies me when he receives the money. After all, maybe if I combined both of those requests into one email he wouldn't have thrown a temper tantrum. I don't feel I was unreasonable. As the buyer, I have the right to REQUEST a refund for his poor service and rudeness, never did I demand anything. I knew I wasn't entitled to a refund but I do reserve to the right to request one. After all we can all request whatever we want. Once he freaked out and started insulting me I just told him to send the amp or my money. I tried to be as reasonable as possible, but I am also not going to let myself get pushed around.
    I think your requests were reasonable. The guy blew a gasket for no apparent reason.

    That said, you really don't have the right to demand your money back in this situation. Or, more properly, the seller does not have to refund your money. He's correct in stating that a binding contract has taken place. You bought and paid, he ships. He is not obligated to cancel the transaction.

    At this point, your only recourse is to wait a reasonable time for the unit. If not received, you can file a complaint... and you can mark this guy off your list of preferred sellers. Sorry, but that's the harsh reality.

    Good luck - I hope it works out - and I think it will.
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  20. #20
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    I'm sorry to see that someone was quick to blow you off, but I don't think that you were ripped off. At least, not yet. Give it a few more days. If you don't receive your product or at least a tracking number by the end of the week, then it's time to start worrying.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  21. #21
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    Guys, Steve Rowell at Audio Classics just called me. He immediately refunded my money. Let me be clear that Audio Classics was nothing more than a facilitator in this transaction. They were very helpful and amicable in getting my refund. It was only Gary that was the problem here. I just want to clear any confusion that Audio Classics had anything to do with my complaint.

  22. #22
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    To give an honest assesment of the situation, you would need to show us the e-mail you sent to him that prompted his rude response... and give details of the prior phone conversations... truth is that he may have over-reacted and been rude, or you may have been very annoying and just screwed up a good deal because you were impatient.

  23. #23
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Lessee... considering the transaction was initiated Friday (time unknown), few people ship on Saturday (due to lack of commercial carriers making pickups), they were closed on Sunday, and they are on California time, I'd say you got pretty dang good service.

    You didn't even give them one full business day to ship it out! Perhaps he/they simply wanted to wash their hands of this mess.

    After all, a 2270 in good condition that has recently been gone over by a tech, with a warranty is a pretty good deal at $250. I'd say you lost out on this one.
    Last edited by markw; 09-29-2008 at 10:58 AM.

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    Doesn't, matter who's fault it was. I have my money back now. I believe he was very rude to me following my basic requests. If you don't trust what I say happened that's fine. I understand there is always two sides to the story, and while I could have been impatient and annoying it doesn't warrant his response. I have sold things to people that bombarded me with incessant emails and contact, but answered all their questions in a respectful and attentive manner. Why? Because they are giving me their money and they deserve my attention and respect. Also, because I understand how important things are to people and I want to make sure to serve them well. Maybe I am just to friendly and attentive with my buyers, but I would hope everyone else would take their sales as seriously as I do. I like to do what is right, and if it means answer a few questions than I am glad to help. I just wish more people showed some more consideration towards others. I think the fact that he was amicable until I sent him the money in which case he turned rude. That is definitely a poor testament of his character.

  25. #25
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    I agree with you Bigmoney and it's admirable that you take the approach you do when dealing with buyers. I'd want the same treatment if I was buying from someone, and I gave the same respect and positive encouragement to the guy who bought my pool table on eBay. It's not unreasonable to expect a certain amount of courtesy.

    Only problem is, the world is full of jerks and arrogant idiots, so this probably isn't the last time you'll come across someone like this. In time you'll realize that you either accept the risk of going through these types of situations, or use a more old-fashioned way of doing business in the used gear market.

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