Onkyo tx-nr905 or Yamaha rx-v3800?

[thedude65]

I'am ready to buy a new av receiver (yamaha rx-v995 i own is ready for retirement).I really like everything about the nr-905( toroidal power supply,video processing chip,thx ultra 2,build quality,network capable,etc...), but i hesitate because of what i've been reading about how hot the nr-905 gets and the report of a "popping sound" at certain times heard in your speakers.Heat and electronics don't go together, for i am concerned about the 905's longevity, but is it really as bad as everyone is making it out to be? I have the yam 995 for ten yrs. and a yam 495 for 8 yrs. and have never had a problem with either(and they never get worse than warm), but besides that i am willing to try an Onkyo.I like the 3800 but feel the 905 outshines it in many areas. Am i worrying for nothing? What should i do? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!! (system: b&w 602s3 fronts, 601s3 rears, lcr600s3 center, and klipsch ksw200 200watt 12-inch sub; 50-inch 720p panny plasma, panny upconversion dvd player).

[pixelthis]

Dont know if this helps, but my Integra has the same AMP tech in its guts, and yes it does get hot, but this is considered in the design.
I ran a small fan over it for a year, but got tired of frakkin with it, its been four years
and so far so good.
Most importantly stability of the amps never wavers.
And the preamp section is quieter than a church a crack ho has just walked into.
My last Yammy had some crosstalk (you could hear the CD section on a quiet
video input if you turned it way up)
Maybe its the fact that my pre-amp is so digitized , but its the quietest I have ever seen on a receiver.
Just my two cents

[Rich-n-Texas]

Hi thedude65, welcome!

I own the RX-V3800, and I can tell you it's the last receiver I plan on buying for a long time. I got a great deal on the purchase; that's what sealed the deal for me, but truthfully, if I was buying today I'd be looking at yamaha's new models. Just go to their website and check out the latest RX lines.

The next thing I did, because I was a bit disappointed with the power supply section of the 3800 when trying to drive my B&W's (as well as letting these clowns here talk me into it ) was purchase a separate amp. My Emotiva LPA-1 really woke my speakers up, and if the B&W's you own are as fussy about power as my old gen 804's are you'd be well advised to consider one. There are two threads running right now about this amp, and quite a few threads about the 3800.

As far as that Onkyo model you're considering, I'm not sure if it has the same issues as the 805, but there was more than one issue with the 805. The popping sound was one and another was lip-sync issues. Our own L.J. did comparisons with the 805 and in the end he purcahsed the Yamaha 2700. What turns me off more than anything else is the firmware updates that are part of the ownership experience of the Onkyos. I want nothing to do with that. As far as I know there is one update for the 3800 regarding a DTS-MA issue, but that's not a problem for me as I currently have nothing requiring DTS-MA decoding.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

(Note to self: Rent The Big Lebowski this weekend)

[bfalls]

I've always considered Yamaha and Onkyo two of the top three for HT receivers, Denon being my first choice and Marantz coming in fourth. I'm not talking the entry-level models, but the serious top 2 or 3 models of each line. One thing that has always impressed me about Yamaha is their quoted parms for lower impedances. Most provide specs at 4ohms, and several of their amps down to 2ohms. This tells me they've well engineered not only their power supplies, but their output sections as well.

Heat has always been the enemy of electronics. It not only has a negative effect on longevity, but changes their operating parameters. All electronics components (transistors, ICs, etc) provide operating-range temp specs (graphs) which determine whether the component has a positive, or negative temp co-efficient. This may be caculated into the engineering parms of Class-A amps, which always run hot, but I doubt is ideal for mass-market HT receivers.

If your speakers provide a difficult load for a receiver, you may want to stay away from one which generally runs hot, or do as Rich suggests and buy outboard amps. With the latter, why buy a receiver at all and go with a HT preamp and amp setup.

[L.J.]

I would suggest that you give both a home audition. Spend some time with both units. I did run into issues with the 805 and eventually gave up after auditioning 3 separate units. My understanding is that the "popping" isuues goes all the way up to the Integra line as well. Although it seems to be HDMI related, some have noted this happening with optical connections as well. Onkyo provides a flyer with each unit that states you may hear this and that it's "normal". There are some good units out there though. Badassjazz here at AR purchased a 805 and didn't have any issues. I would suggest again that you give each a home audition and make sure you check all connections on the 905 including HDMI if possible.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Originally Posted by bfalls

If your speakers provide a difficult load for a receiver, you may want to stay away from one which generally runs hot, or do as Rich suggests and buy outboard amps. With the latter, why buy a receiver at all and go with a HT preamp and amp setup.

In that regard (and I don't want to sound like a sales rep for Emotiva) you'll find pre/pros on the Emotiva website that apparently play very well with their amps.

http://emotiva.com/mmc1.html

[GMichael]

Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas

In that regard (and I don't want to sound like a sales rep for Emotiva) you'll find pre/pros on the Emotiva website that apparently play very well with their amps.

http://emotiva.com/mmc1.html

Now who's pushin' Emotiva? Seems like just a couple of weeks ago that you were accusing me of working for them.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Accusing you? No, maybe just busting your chops. Ease back there killer!

[GMichael]

Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas

Accusing you? No, maybe just busting your chops. Ease back there killer!

Yeah, yeah. Just playing with you there Mr flip flop.
Am I being too rough on you these days?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Worthless sarcasm detector, remember?

[L.J.]

Now now ladies. That's enough from you two.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Okay, let's get back on topic. Tell us what you need to know there thedude.

[f0rge]

have you considered Denon? i have an AVR-3808CI and cant say enough good things about it. the sound stage is amazing and it has more features than i can even use.

when i was shopping i compared it to a yammy 3800 and, to me at least, the denon blew it away...

not trying to make your choice harder, but i think you should take a look.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Originally Posted by f0rge

have you considered Denon? i have an AVR-3808CI and cant say enough good things about it. the sound stage is amazing and it has more features than i can even use.

when i was shopping i compared it to a yammy 3800 and, to me at least, the denon blew it away...

not trying to make your choice harder, but i think you should take a look.

You and only you canknucklehead.

[bobsticks]

Originally Posted by pixelthis

And the preamp section is quieter than a church a crack ho has just walked into.

That doesn't necessarily mean much. When a crack ho walks into Saint Andrews it just means business is about to pick up.

[bobsticks]

Originally Posted by L.J.

I would suggest again that you give each a home audition and make sure you check all connections on the 905 including HDMI if possible.

As usual L.J. provides the most useful insight. With the amount you're talking about investing it's worth the time and effort of plugging and unplugging some wires to make sure you're happy either unit. Hopefully this'll be your last purchase for awhile so why not get it right and be sure? You don't wanna get a few months down the road and realize that you hate the remote and the thing clicks like crickets in heat.

FWIW, I've had a couple of Onkyos over several years and they get quite hot too. It's the nature of the beast with those guys...all of 'em do it. Never used a fan and never had a problem either.

[thedude65]

thank you to everyone who replied!!! very helpful(and quite entertaining,also!!). i always knew the best thing to do is to audition at home. i just figured if everyone screamed "the onkyo will blow up!" my job was done, but there's still plenty hope for the 905 after all. i will also consider the denon.(i used to think that denon receivers of old were a little complicated, but that thinking, i guess, is unfair to the new line. i already ruled out the marantz 8002 (to expensive and not as feature-rich as the 905) and the pioneer elite 94(never cared for their menu set-ups).if anyone has any additional info,please don't hesitate to post it. anyway i have some auditioning to do. i'll keep you posted.AGAIN, THANK YOU ALL!!!!!

[Rich-n-Texas]

Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas

(Note to self: Rent The Big Lebowski this weekend)

Well it just so happened that The Big L was on the Fuse channel last night, but I'm afraid I couldn't stay tuned because it's just not the same unless Walter is allowed to say "Shut the F*** up Donnie" ya know?

Anyway, back over to you thedude.

[f0rge]

some other info, on the denon 3808 at least...

it can be a bit confusing to get everything setup, BUT it has 2 features that are a great help in both the setup and general operation of the receiver.
1. a nice OSD that can be displayed at all resolutions out of all video outputs. (i'm currently using it at 1080p over HDMI)
2. a network, IP based computer interface that can access and change roughly 90% of the receiver's settings and functionality in REAL TIME. this was a godsend for me when i was setting it up. i just put the IP of the receiver (which you can get from the OSD) into the address bar in my browser on my laptop and voila, i sat in my listening position with my laptop on my lap and changed everything i needed. of course to use it you're going to have to connect the receiver to your router...

the remote sucks, well actually there are 2 remotes, they both suck. you'll want something else.

and lastly, IT'S MADE IN JAPAN! no Chinese slave labor sub-par quality craftsmanship on this badboy.

[thedude65]

Hold the phone!! Rather than spend in the price range of the Onkyo 905 or yammy 3800, i may go the same route as Rich-in-Texas and Kexodusc and get the Emotiva lpa-1 and use my yam 995 as a pre-pro for now. Then, in the near future when i get a blu-ray player i'll upgrade my yam995 to a pre-pro or mid-range receiver that has the latest audio codecs and hdmi 1.3... the lpa-1 also has a toroidal like the 905 but has a 1500w power supply compared to about 850w(i think that's right) of the 905. Also, it weighs about 11 lbs.(63 vs. 52) more and it's just an amp!!! I'll wind up actually saving money for better sound quality(at least i hope).Seems to make perfect sense. Anybody else out there agree??? p.s. i think i read the lpa-1 is not U.L. listed. Is this common for a power amp? Does it matter? Does this have anything to do with the $499 price? Just wondering........

[Rich-n-Texas]

Originally Posted by thedude65

Hold the phone!! Rather than spend in the price range of the Onkyo 905 or yammy 3800, i may go the same route as Rich-in-Texas and Kexodusc and get the Emotiva lpa-1 and use my yam 995 as a pre-pro for now. Then, in the near future when i get a blu-ray player i'll upgrade my yam995 to a pre-pro or mid-range receiver that has the latest audio codecs and hdmi 1.3... the lpa-1 also has a toroidal like the 905 but has a 1500w power supply compared to about 850w(i think that's right) of the 905. Also, it weighs about 11 lbs.(63 vs. 52) more and it's just an amp!!! I'll wind up actually saving money for better sound quality(at least i hope).Seems to make perfect sense. Anybody else out there agree??? p.s. i think i read the lpa-1 is not U.L. listed. Is this common for a power amp? Does it matter? Does this have anything to do with the $499 price? Just wondering........

Good idea Dude. The reasons I bought my 3800 was for the price ($1099 w/coupon) and the amount of built-in future proofing. The LPA-1 is a steal for the asking price and like I said it drives my B&W's with room to spare. Don't wait too much longer though because it's going to be replaced with a more expensive model.

I asked on this forum as well as sending an e-mail to Emotiva Customer Support about why it wasn't UL listed but got no response. IIRC there was a Hi-pot stamp on something so at least it's safe from an insulation breakdown standpoint. It also has CE approval. Good luck!

[L.J.]

Originally Posted by thedude65

thank you to everyone who replied!!! very helpful(and quite entertaining,also!!). i always knew the best thing to do is to audition at home. i just figured if everyone screamed "the onkyo will blow up!" my job was done, but there's still plenty hope for the 905 after all. i will also consider the denon.(i used to think that denon receivers of old were a little complicated, but that thinking, i guess, is unfair to the new line. i already ruled out the marantz 8002 (to expensive and not as feature-rich as the 905) and the pioneer elite 94(never cared for their menu set-ups).if anyone has any additional info,please don't hesitate to post it. anyway i have some auditioning to do. i'll keep you posted.AGAIN, THANK YOU ALL!!!!!

Sounds like a plan to me

[Rich-n-Texas]

Originally Posted by L.J.

Sounds like a plan to me

Gee, what an informative post. I hope we're not tearing you away from the AVS forums there sport!

[thedude65]

Hello, rich-n texas.Just got off the phone with Nick at Emotiva and was told the follow-up to the lpa-1 is due at the end of june and 7 x 125w at $599(he sounded pretty positive and HE said it, not me .. I would like to eventually add back surrounds to my system. you think it would be worth the extra $100 to wait for the new model or 50w x 2 with the lpa-1's 6th and 7th channels be fine? also, by leaving my backyard speakers connected to the "B" main terminals on my yammy995, they should still powered by the 995,right? and lastly, what kind of cables are you using to connect your yam3800 to the lpa-1? thanks again!

[Rich-n-Texas]

Originally Posted by Kexodusc

The 6th/7th channels can be bridge to make another 125 watt channel that matches the other 5, but I run all 7. The manufacturer's rating for those channels is 50 watt x 2 (when all 7 channels are driven to max output at stated THD spec). In practice, I think this is a bit conservative.

I gather from this thedude that he doesn't have any problems when running all 7. If you end up buying inefficient speakers for your back surrounds, that may be a different story. B&W speakers, as you may have read require a lot of power (making them not the ideal candidate for the "efficient" moniker) to wake them up.

I also read in his post that the LPA-1 will get an overhaul that will drive the cost up by $200, not $100. Not sure who Nick is though. If I had it to do all over again I'd make the same decision. $500 for what this amp delivers is a good bang for the buck.

Originally Posted by thedude

also, by leaving my backyard speakers connected to the "B" main terminals on my yammy995, they should still powered by the 995,right?

Yes as far as I know. I'm soon going to find that out myself with "Zone 2" of my receiver.

I purchased my amp - receiver interconnect cables from Bluejeans Cable:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/6channel/index.htm