hitachi electronics closing doors in australia

[diggity]

g'day people. i am sure it is of no interest to any of the people in this forum but in australia it is news. hitachi electronics is closed for business in australia for good.dwindling sales are of course the rumour behind the news.
just thought i would post this news so anyone who reads this, and lives in the garden of eden called australia are aware that all purchasers of their electronics (barring air conditioners) will have only 3 month warranties. and this closure might possibly spread to other countries, so keep your finger on the pulse

cheers: dazza

[Rich-n-Texas]

I didn't know there was a Hitachi manufacturing plant in Aussie land, but it sounds like stores there will no longer offer Hitachi products correct? Even HDTV's?

[Mr Peabody]

I'd like to know what the story is behind Hatachi. At one point they were right in there with Sony and Mitsubishi as being recognized as one of the better video products you can get. And, if I'm not mistaken they were the first to bring out a Blu-ray camcorder. I have noticed in the past few years that their TV's don't get the buzz or market share they used to. I don't know with Samsung and Toshiba springing to life in quality TV's squoze some of the others out of the picture, such as Hatachi, or if they just have a marketing glitch. I haven't seen anything about quality problems. I need to do some checking, normally when I look at HDTV's I don't remember seeing any Hatachi and I don't think they offer a BR player though they put out the camcorder. Maybe they have been slowly fading and we just didn't notice.

I think a lot of it is marketing and what the manufacturer and store management tell their sales staff. I've been in many big box stores where the sales staff push LG as higher quality and I'm sure some will argue that too but I have not seen it. I don't think LG is any better than RCA or other value products. They are touted as being able to compete with Sony or Mitsubishi, I'm sorry, say what you will but not to me they don't. Their TV's on the sales floor PQ look inferior and I ended up buying one of their "upsampling" DVD players because it met my needs for a certain application. The LG using HDMI didn't have as good of a picture as my Denon 1600 with component. The connection isn't the point, the difference should have been the Denon was Progressive Scan, 480p, where the LG was supposed to be upsampling. To be fair, the first gen upsampling players didn't upsample copy protected movies which made the upsamplign virtually a useless feature. So it may have only been 480p as well. You offer the sales staff some incentives on a certain brand and it suddenly becomes, the stuff!. People should always do some research on their own to become informed and trust their own senses (sight, hearing etc) on making their purchses. Man, did I get off track, or what?

[GMichael]

Hitachi may build quality products. I don't know that part either way. But I have bought and sold their display parts for a few years now. Their parts department sure does NOT have their act together.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I'm almost certain Hitachi was the first company to introduce wide-screen SD TV's.

I completely agree with you Mr. P about LG. Goldstar was a bottom feeder so there's no reason to believe their latest incarnation isn't also of the same low quality. It seems like all of a sudden the market was being flooded with products made by the newly named LG and everybody (not me) was of the mindset that they had products of the same quality as the established, tried-n-true players. LG is, was and always be junk IMO, driven by a greedy marketing dept.

[diggity]

g'day all, sorry mustn.t have been too clear in my first post, they don't have a manafacturing plant in australia. what closing down is their australian headquaters. they will be no longer selling products here. i think the problem was exactly what MR P said, when people looked for hdtv's they didnt consider hitachi.

as for quality. the store i work for used to be one of the biggest sellers of their hd lcd and plasmas. we used to convert so many people from lg to hitachi because of the quality. in one week i moved 16 panels in five days. alot for just one brand. but when they moved production from japan to china the reliabilty went downhill and fast. we stopped carrying them and havent sold one in 2 years.

they will still be sold until no stock is left but only with a three month warranty. and that warranty is only valid in the store you buy it in. if you move it is your bad luck. and there will be no replacement if it cannot be fixed, it will replaced with the cheapest tv the store has as the store will have to pay for the repair or replacement themselves.

cheers: dazza

[diggity]

I'm almost certain Hitachi was the first company to introduce wide-screen SD TV's.

I completely agree with you Mr. P about LG. Goldstar was a bottom feeder so there's no reason to believe their latest incarnation isn't also of the same low quality. It seems like all of a sudden the market was being flooded with products made by the newly named LG and everybody (not me) was of the mindset that they had products of the same quality as the established, tried-n-true players. LG is, was and always be junk IMO, driven by a greedy marketing dept.

oh yes their marketing dept must be given a massive payrise. to convince people with their glossy advertisements that their products are the top shelf is a miracle. they are gods. it has gotten to the point here down under hat people walk into my store who have had faulty lg units and want to guy another one!!! all because they think lg has changed. but dont get me started on lg, i could go for days lol

cheers: dazza

[Mr Peabody]

It serves them right for moving manufacturing to China. Maybe some day these companies will wise up. Chine is sad, everybody moves over their for cheap labor and the country is so polluted it looks like something out of a Sci Fi movie. People wearing masks and not even being able to see the sun in the morning daylight until some of the haze burns off. This isn't being done to keep prices down for consumers either, it's pure greed and going into the pockets of corporate demons.

[Woochifer]

I'm almost certain Hitachi was the first company to introduce wide-screen SD TV's.

I completely agree with you Mr. P about LG. Goldstar was a bottom feeder so there's no reason to believe their latest incarnation isn't also of the same low quality. It seems like all of a sudden the market was being flooded with products made by the newly named LG and everybody (not me) was of the mindset that they had products of the same quality as the established, tried-n-true players. LG is, was and always be junk IMO, driven by a greedy marketing dept.

I think your perception is about a decade or two behind the reality. At one point, Korean companies like LG, Samsung, and Hyundai were all considered bottomfeeders who could only compete with the Japanese electronics giants (who themselves once upon a time were also considered bottomfeeding junk peddlers compared to the American electronics giants) on price. Now, they are very much competing on equal terms with the Japanese companies. Even Sony had to swallow its pride and to turn to Samsung for help when their LCD development fell behind the curve.

IIRC, LG right now is the #2 OEM supplier of LCD panels worldwide. Even if the brand on the case does not say LG, it's very likely that the display itself was manufactured by LG (e.g., Apple's iMacs and Cinema Displays, which are known for their image quality, use either LG or Samsung LCD panels). They are in a variety of other OEM markets as well, so even if you got a hatin' on for the LG brand, any number of products you own might already have LG components inside.

[Woochifer]

I'd like to know what the story is behind Hatachi. At one point they were right in there with Sony and Mitsubishi as being recognized as one of the better video products you can get. And, if I'm not mistaken they were the first to bring out a Blu-ray camcorder. I have noticed in the past few years that their TV's don't get the buzz or market share they used to. I don't know with Samsung and Toshiba springing to life in quality TV's squoze some of the others out of the picture, such as Hatachi, or if they just have a marketing glitch. I haven't seen anything about quality problems. I need to do some checking, normally when I look at HDTV's I don't remember seeing any Hatachi and I don't think they offer a BR player though they put out the camcorder. Maybe they have been slowly fading and we just didn't notice.

Hitachi has been in flux for a while. At one point, they coproduced their plasma TVs with Fujitsu and were the clear leaders in developing plasma TVs. Fujitsu-branded TVs were sent to the high end installers, and Hitachi sets went to Circuit City and other mass market vendors, but the TVs themselves came off the same assembly lines. But, my understanding is that Fujitsu has now exited the consumer HDTV market, and Hitachi is having to compete with a whole slew of other players that have now caught up with them. Panasonic and Pioneer have surpassed their plasma technology, and IIRC Hitachi has to source their LCD panels from other OEM vendors.

Keep in mind though that Hitachi is gigantic conglomerate. They sell industrial robots, power tools, forklifts, trucks, shipping cranes, memory chips, hard drives, and a whole bunch of other OEM electronics. Consumer electronics is probably one of their smallest market niches, and it would not surprise me to see them exit that market with its tight profit margins, and high marketing and customer support costs. Their involvement in Blu-ray is probably as an OEM drive vendor. Even if they drop out of the consumer market, they have a huge presence in the OEM market.

I think a lot of it is marketing and what the manufacturer and store management tell their sales staff. I've been in many big box stores where the sales staff push LG as higher quality and I'm sure some will argue that too but I have not seen it. I don't think LG is any better than RCA or other value products. They are touted as being able to compete with Sony or Mitsubishi, I'm sorry, say what you will but not to me they don't. Their TV's on the sales floor PQ look inferior and I ended up buying one of their "upsampling" DVD players because it met my needs for a certain application. The LG using HDMI didn't have as good of a picture as my Denon 1600 with component. The connection isn't the point, the difference should have been the Denon was Progressive Scan, 480p, where the LG was supposed to be upsampling. To be fair, the first gen upsampling players didn't upsample copy protected movies which made the upsamplign virtually a useless feature. So it may have only been 480p as well. You offer the sales staff some incentives on a certain brand and it suddenly becomes, the stuff!. People should always do some research on their own to become informed and trust their own senses (sight, hearing etc) on making their purchses. Man, did I get off track, or what?

I think you're way off here trying to form a conclusion about TVs based on how they look on the sales floor. Were those TVs calibrated? Were they running off a decent source? Is your TV at home also a plasma HDTV? I can tell you that the factory settings on every TV out there are way off from what's optimal. Unless you're using the same connections and the same source, there's no way to conclude anything about whether one TV is better than another when you have so many variables involved.

[Mr Peabody]

Except for maybe certain TV's on a special display they are all generally fed off the same source. I know that LG is consistently under whelming to me. If you like their picture that's fine but I do not. If they're factory settings are set some how worse than other manufacturers set their's, then that's their fault. When I look at TV's in a show room I don't tweak them or ask if they've been calibrated. If a model interests me I will go into the menu to make sure at least they are set to normal or factory as a reference point. So I believe the playing field on the sales floor for TV's is about as level as it can be and LG gives a poor showing in my opinion. When products are built for a company by another who builds for many, they usually have to build to the buyers specs. If LG builds for Apple and 20 other companies it don't mean all those products are identical. I try to form my opinions on the products performance more than where it came from. I actually don't know where LG is built. My issue with them is sales people telling me how great it is while I'm standing there looking at it and thinking, "you are kidding, right?"

[diggity]

I think your perception is about a decade or two behind the reality. At one point, Korean companies like LG, Samsung, and Hyundai were all considered bottomfeeders who could only compete with the Japanese electronics giants (who themselves once upon a time were also considered bottomfeeding junk peddlers compared to the American electronics giants) on price. Now, they are very much competing on equal terms with the Japanese companies. Even Sony had to swallow its pride and to turn to Samsung for help when their LCD development fell behind the curve.

IIRC, LG right now is the #2 OEM supplier of LCD panels worldwide. Even if the brand on the case does not say LG, it's very likely that the display itself was manufactured by LG (e.g., Apple's iMacs and Cinema Displays, which are known for their image quality, use either LG or Samsung LCD panels). They are in a variety of other OEM markets as well, so even if you got a hatin' on for the LG brand, any number of products you own might already have LG components inside.

while i agree with woochifer 100%. lg do an incredible job at producing screens for other manufacturers i may add that most of the circiutry behind that screen isn't from lg. case in point is the sony/samsung partnership. the lcd panel is the same, however all the gear behind it is manufactured in japan from sony. as a result the sony engineers can produce 30% more colour variance. the model t ford was famous for being mass produced but not so for its quality which was quite poor. (sorry for the melvinism but i didn't mean to bring cars into it ).

i remember when manufacturers went from europe to japan every said that japan was rubbish and now that circle is continuing on and japan is now the holy grail and china is rubbish. nut there are some good stuff coming from china. it will take time for them to adjust but it will happen. in the meantime people just have to shop smart and not take everything at face value.this is why i started this thread. whats happening in australia isn't much news to people in other countries, but the same thing can happen. what was once considered a quality japanese brand is now scaling back operations, and prices are plummeting on their equipment and peolple aren't being told why.

i think the fact you get a nothing warranty is the worrying thing. imagine buying a 1080p screen and it dieing in 6 months and being told bad luck. and you cannot buy longer warranties.

cheers: dazza

[Mr Peabody]

There is already quality products coming from China. Noticeably to me is certain hi fi gear.

To buy a Hitachi in that situation it would have to be so cheap you could afford to throw it away if it broke. I wonder how hard it would be to get parts for repair?

[Rich-n-Texas]

I think your perception is about a decade or two behind the reality. At one point, Korean companies like LG, Samsung, and Hyundai were all considered bottomfeeders who could only compete with the Japanese electronics giants (who themselves once upon a time were also considered bottomfeeding junk peddlers compared to the American electronics giants) on price.

You could be right. I could be about ten years behind, but 10 - 20 years ago there was no LG, at least not in the household. The LG LOGO is less than 10 years old AFAIK, and was preceeded by Goldstar (No disputing that fact right?). I guess your point though is that the Koreans nowadays don't necessarily take a back seat to the other international manufacturers. Correct assumption? I wouldn't know. I'd say my Mitsubishi TV has Japanese and AMERICAN technology in it, my older B&W's are British, and I don't think it's too likely that Yamaha receivers and Panasonic DVD players have chunks of LG in them. My washer and dryer OTOH may be a different story.

[Woochifer]

Except for maybe certain TV's on a special display they are all generally fed off the same source. I know that LG is consistently under whelming to me. If you like their picture that's fine but I do not. If they're factory settings are set some how worse than other manufacturers set their's, then that's their fault.

Sorry, but that's just wrong. A factory setting is not the same as a calibrated setting. NO manufacturer out there would dare to produce a set that's calibrated to industry reference points out of the box. Why? Because a calibrated set simply will not stand out in a brightly lit retail showroom. EVERY manufacturer purposely sets the default settings with the brightness and sharpness dialed way up, and these default settings are wildly different from brand to brand and model to model. In order to do a proper comparison, you have to adjust the settings to account for that. Are you telling me that you would simply buy a TV, bring it home, and not adjust any of the settings? That's the only way that the factory settings would be any sort of valid comparison.

When I look at TV's in a show room I don't tweak them or ask if they've been calibrated.

If that's the case, then you're not making an informed assessment of a TV set's picture quality, since the factory settings are not an accurate indication of a TV's actual capability. Panasonic makes some of the best reviewed plasma TVs on the market, yet their sets require some of the biggest adjustments in order to get the picture close to reference specs. They are very inaccurate out of the box, but stellar performers after a proper calibration. Look at any professional review -- none of them are conducted only using the factory settings, all of them are calibrated.

When products are built for a company by another who builds for many, they usually have to build to the buyers specs. If LG builds for Apple and 20 other companies it don't mean all those products are identical.

The LCD panels that Apple uses for the iMac and Cinema Displays are OEM panels that are used in different models. There are no custom runs just for Apple. The only custom specs are in how the settings are done, and the other electronics. Regardless, your assertion is that LG is a bottomfeeder brand, yet here's Apple (a presumably premium brand) contracting with LG to supply their LCD panels. This is not the same thing as Apex Digital migrating from one fly-by-night assembly line to another buying millions of low bid units at a time, regardless of quality.

You could be right. I could be about ten years behind, but 10 - 20 years ago there was no LG, at least not in the household. The LG LOGO is less than 10 years old AFAIK, and was preceeded by Goldstar (No disputing that fact right?). I guess your point though is that the Koreans nowadays don't necessarily take a back seat to the other international manufacturers. Correct assumption? I wouldn't know. I'd say my Mitsubishi TV has Japanese and AMERICAN technology in it, my older B&W's are British, and I don't think it's too likely that Yamaha receivers and Panasonic DVD players have chunks of LG in them. My washer and dryer OTOH may be a different story.

Goldstar was their brand name in North America, and they used a different one in Asia. I think LG is their combined name. This is no different than Matsush*ta coming into the American market using the Panasonic brand, while most of their products in Asia are marketed under the National brand.

It is a rebranding, but it's also a reflection of where LG sits in the marketplace. At one point in time, Goldstar and Samsung were both considered bargain basement junk. Samsung moved upmarket without any rebranding, while LG decided to do a rebranding. Today, I doubt that anyone would argue that Samsung has not achieved parity with Japanese companies like Sony, Mitsubishi, JVC, Pioneer, etc.

LG has been a top tier OEM vendor for several years now, and it would not surprise me one bit if they supply the panels for Mitsubishi and Yamaha (both of which market flat screen HDTVs, but lack the capacity to manufacture their own panels).

[Mr Peabody]

Wooch, come back to earth, you are really stretching to try to make a point. Are you saying no one buys TV's by looking at them in the store? I'd say 99% of people make their buying decisions on TV's by how they look on display. Maybe only you or Sir T would bring one home and tweak it before making a decision. A TV isn't like an amp you can throw in the back seat and bring home for a test drive. The only thing we have is how they look on display and what we can find out by research. I adjust my set when I get it home. If they all turn up the brightness and contrast as you say, then I guess they all are still on an even playing field, aren't they. If they all looked the same then there wouldn't be much of a decision to make, would there. I've been buying TV's for some time, in and out of stores, and I haven't noticed anyone in stores doing anything different than me. If we are all doing it wrong maybe you should enlighten us on the proper steps to TV purchasing. Or, at least tell me how you go about it. Maybe my next TV purchase will be quite different.

Are you going to tell me TV's are all basically the same and can be tweaked to one standard? That's great that LG builds for others but I'm saying they haven't shown me anything to impress me. And, you can try to twist things around to make it look like I can't tell a good picture from a bad or make excuses for them all you want but until I see a product from them that convinces me it's quality, then in my book they aren't and therefore will not be in my house.

[Woochifer]

Wooch, come back to earth, you are really stretching to try to make a point. Are you saying no one buys TV's by looking at them in the store? I'd say 99% of people make their buying decisions on TV's by how they look on display. Maybe only you or Sir T would bring one home and tweak it before making a decision. A TV isn't like an amp you can throw in the back seat and bring home for a test drive. The only thing we have is how they look on display and what we can find out by research. I adjust my set when I get it home.

I'm not stretching any point here, you're simply missing it.

People do buy TVs based on how they look in the showroom, that's precisely why manufacturers purposely use factory default settings that bump the brightness and sharpness and color balances that are way off from reference specs. It's all about what stands out, not about what's accurate. In assessing picture quality in a typical big box showroom, it's easy to equate brightness and sharpness with picture quality.

If you want to accurately assess a TV's picture quality, you need to adjust the settings to get the brightness, contrast, sharpness, and color balances as close as possible. Otherwise, it would be no different than trying to evaluate amplifiers with the tone controls set to different "zero" levels.

If they all turn up the brightness and contrast as you say, then I guess they all are still on an even playing field, aren't they.

That statement would be true only if all sets were similarly inaccurate, but they are not. The adjustments needed for different TVs to match up to the same calibration specs are all over the map. On websites like the AVS Forum, whole discussions are dedicated to the different adjustments needed for different TV models. They're not the same, and are often way different. Like all other TVs, neither LG nor Panasonic are accurate out of the box, but they are inaccurate in very different ways. This is exactly why you need to get the adjustments as close as possible.

If they all looked the same then there wouldn't be much of a decision to make, would there. I've been buying TV's for some time, in and out of stores, and I haven't noticed anyone in stores doing anything different than me. If we are all doing it wrong maybe you should enlighten us on the proper steps to TV purchasing. Or, at least tell me how you go about it. Maybe my next TV purchase will be quite different.

Are you going to tell me TV's are all basically the same and can be tweaked to one standard?

TVs are not the same, but they can be calibrated to a reference specification. AT THAT POINT, you can make an accurate comparison. Ever heard of Avia or Digital Video Essentials, or even the THX Optimizer that comes with all THX-ceritified DVDs? Those are all tools that can be used for video calibration. Some people on this board have spent the extra money to have their sets calibrated by an ASF technician. Panasonic TVs in particular, benefit greatly from calibration. By most accounts, their plasma HDTVs are very high quality, but their factory settings are highly inaccurate. A store where my friend used to work calibrated their TVs, and that makes a huge difference in showing the true advantages between different models.

That's great that LG builds for others but I'm saying they haven't shown me anything to impress me. And, you can try to twist things around to make it look like I can't tell a good picture from a bad or make excuses for them all you want but until I see a product from them that convinces me it's quality, then in my book they aren't and therefore will not be in my house.

How can a product impress you if you don't even know what it's capable of? If you don't calibrate your TV at home, you haven't seen what a picture is supposed to look like with the settings properly balanced. At home, you wouldn't just take the factory settings and leave them in place, so why would you rely on them in a showroom? Believe me, if you get a calibration disc for your TV's video settings, it's like buying a new TV. (FYI, from what I've read over the years, Toshibas seem inconsistent as to the degree to which they need extensive changes to the factory settings. Some models are closer to spec out of the box than others.)

I'm not saying that all products are the same, but I am telling you that relying on the factory settings will give you comparisons that are far from apples-to-apples. You wouldn't audition speakers using different volume settings, and the same difference applies when comparing TVs.

[pixelthis]

Nobody in their right mind would buy a high end product from Goldstar, thats why they changed their name.
As for Hitachi, a friend bought one at sears the other day, got it for half off.
Hitachi always had the rep, but they stayed in rptv too long, probably thought LCD and other flat panels were a "fad".
The fact that they are pulling out of aussieland, a major market, doesnt bode well.
BASICALLY A GREAT PICTURE, poor marketing, and marketing is important in an industry where no one really needs your product(higher end electronics)

[Mr Peabody]

Wooch, you keep flipping your points from the show room to home. I've never seen anyone or even the sales staff offer to calibrate the settings in a showroom. The showroom is the only place I referred to. Actually, bringing a THX movie wouldn't be a bad idea at all, it would just mean we'd have to convince one of the minimum wage geniuses to disconnect the sets feed and hook up a disc player and be willing to do that for a few prospects. I figure if a picture can maintain clarity with it at factory settings then it will remain so if toned down.

I've used the Optimizer and my Toshiba has been right on. I set it to a recommendation I found on the web from some one who used a calibrator, the adjustments looked pretty good to me. Do you think Avia or similar would do anything more? I'm willing to adjust the settings inside the menu but I'm not going to take the back off, I don't feel qualified to do that. I enjoy audio and video to a point but I am not a technician to be sure.

Let's put this another way, have you, seen LG have a picture quality on a TV that you thought compared to a Sony, Panasonic or Mitsubishi? If so, which technology, because manufacturer's seen to have one or the other they do best.

[Woochifer]

Nobody in their right mind would buy a high end product from Goldstar, thats why they changed their name.
As for Hitachi, a friend bought one at sears the other day, got it for half off.
Hitachi always had the rep, but they stayed in rptv too long, probably thought LCD and other flat panels were a "fad".

Try reading the rest of the thread before firing this kind of an ignorant missive. Hitachi was one of the early flat screen TV pioneers with their partnership with Fujitsu. Their problem has been with the market, and the competition catching up with them.

Wooch, you keep flipping your points from the show room to home. I've never seen anyone or even the sales staff offer to calibrate the settings in a showroom. The showroom is the only place I referred to.

This is why you need to take the initiative yourself and tweak with the controls whenever you're looking at TVs in a showroom. The showroom is not about picture accuracy, it's about the wow factor, which is why the factory settings are as inaccurate as they are. The sales staff is all about steering you to the sets that provide them with the highest margins, not setting up apples-to-apples comparisons. If you want to do a valid comparison in the showroom, you have to take the initiative to make sure that any comparisons you do are conducted as evenly as possible. The remotes are usually accessible in the showroom, you just need to take a few seconds to use them. Just taking what's given without any adjustments would be no different than comparing audio equipment and not making an effort to ensure that the levels are even.

I've used the Optimizer and my Toshiba has been right on. I set it to a recommendation I found on the web from some one who used a calibrator, the adjustments looked pretty good to me. Do you think Avia or similar would do anything more? I'm willing to adjust the settings inside the menu but I'm not going to take the back off, I don't feel qualified to do that. I enjoy audio and video to a point but I am not a technician to be sure.

The THX Optimizer is fine for a showroom comparison in that it provides a color pattern that you can use to try and eyeball the settings between different sets. But, for home calibration it's actually useless. Avia and Digital Video Essentials are much better for video calibration because they include a color filter viewer that you use to set the color balances, sharpness, brightness, and contrast to reference specs. Nothing fancy, just a set of color transparencies, but it's an ingeniously inexpensive way to ensure consistency from one setting to another. It doesn't require going into the service menus (or opening up the TV), though some people swear by professional ISF calibration, which does involve tweaking with the service menus.

Let's put this another way, have you, seen LG have a picture quality on a TV that you thought compared to a Sony, Panasonic or Mitsubishi? If so, which technology, because manufacturer's seen to have one or the other they do best.

Absolutely. Once my parents' LG set was calibrated, its image quality was very comparable to other plasma sets in that price range. LG probably wouldn't be my first choice, but it's certainly not out of league with those other brands. Out of the box, the colors were very bland and required big adjustments, though the brightness and sharpness were closer to spec than other HDTVs I've seen. That's probably why they wouldn't fare too well in a showroom comparison if they're simply reset to factory specs.