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  1. #1
    Forum Regular Corto Maltese's Avatar
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    Linn + Dynavector + X-LPS V3?

    I have the opportunity to buy slightly used Dynavector DV Karat 17D2, at very, very reasonable price (swapping for a pair of interconnects that I have). It would go on Linn Axis with Linn Basic Plus. My Phono Stage is Musical Fidelity X-LPS V3. I’ve read the reviews and asked around. It seems to be an awesome cart, but this one review, by loukasb, has me worried: http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/dynav...9_5823crx.aspx
    Would anyone be able to help me and perhaps explain why would the signal from this specific cart be too low for my Phono Stage? I don’t have the specs for this cart, but specs for Musical Fidelity are here:
    http://www.musicalfidelity.com/produ...sv3_specs.html
    Specs for the new cart (DV Karat 17D3) are here:
    http://www.dynavector.com/products/cart/e_17d3.html
    Looks to me that output of new cart is 3 mV, and measured sensitivity of X-LPS V3 is 3.5 mV. I realize that signal is not going to be elevated and used to it’s full potential, but it should work quite fine, right?
    Or is all of this just a question of “the pursuit of perfection”?
    For this system, my amp is Synthesis Nimis and my speakers are Tannoy CS10.
    It would be great if I could take and try the cart for a few days, but that’s out of the question. It was used on Oracle, and PS was kW. I can not buy kW, even the (ab)used one is out of my reach.
    All of your inputs are welcome and thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Found these specs from the enjoythemusic review of the 17D2 cart...

    Specifications

    Type: Low output moving coil cartridge with
    flux damper and softened magnetism
    Output Voltage: 0.23mV (at 1KHz, 5cm/sec.)
    Channel Separation: 25 dB (at 1KHz)
    Channel Balance: 1.0 dB (at 1KHz)
    Frequency Response: 20 - 20,000Hz (± 1dB),
    20 - 100,000Hz
    Compliance: 15 x 10-6 cm/dyn
    Tracking Force: 1.8 - 2.0grams
    DC Resistance: R=38 ohms
    Recommended Load Impedance: 100 ohms
    Cantilever: 1.7mm length, 0.25dia solid diamond
    Stylus: Micro-ridge
    Weight: 5.3 grams

    0.23 seems a little too low for your phonopre to get the full potential out of it. It will work, but you will get better results with a different phonopre...

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

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  3. #3
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Bert is correct that the voltage output of the Dynavector is a little low for your phono pre-amp. I would grab the cartridge anyway if the interconnects are unused and not needed. It is certainly a good cart. I would have the stylus checked just to be sure.

    One way you can use the cart with your existing phono pre is using a phono step up transformer. In the early days of moving coil popularity many preamps had a moving magnet phono stage. To use a mc you would pass the signal from the turntable to the tranny and on to the phono pre-amp. You might find one used that would raise the output and then you could use your existing phono pre-amp.
    JohnMichael
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  4. #4
    Forum Regular Corto Maltese's Avatar
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    Thanks!

    I see the problem... it's not 3 mV, its 2.3 mV - too much.
    Yes, I'll grab it anyway, then consider the options. Just for a heck of it, I'll mount it and listen for a few days. It might swing my mind around the new phono, or make me look for a step-up transformer.
    Thank you for your help, gents!

  5. #5
    Forum Regular jim goulding's Avatar
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    Whoa. Is the output voltage .023 millivolts or 2 point something? If it's the latter, you might find that you're OK unless your phono pre is strickly for MM designs. This is a low compliance design if memory serves and should like to see a rigid, higher mass arm for best tracking. Having said that, get it. It's got a lotta cred.
    designer/manufacturer of custom made time and phase correcting real wool surrounds

  6. #6
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    OK, I got some numbers to add as well.....

    Looks to me that output of new cart is 3 mV, and measured sensitivity of X-LPS V3 is 3.5 mV. I realize that signal is not going to be elevated and used to it’s full potential, but it should work quite fine, right?
    Where did you get this 3mV figure?
    basite came up with 0.23mV output from ETM.com, but Dynavector claims 0.3mV.
    Sentivity of your X-LPS is 3mV(milli volt) in MM setting, which equates to about 38dB of gain. Gain of 38dB is enough to play a High Output Moving Coil cartridges, but your 17D2 is a LOW OUTPUT MOVING COIL cartridge.

    Your X-LPS in MC setting has sensitivity of 350 micro volt or 0.35mV, which equates to about 56-57dB of gain.

    0.3mV needs about 61dB of gain.
    0.23mV needs about 63dB of gain

    I've heard some great things about X-LPS V3, except for its ability to play some of the lowest Output MC.

    I think you would be able to play 17D2 with X-LPS V3, but I wouldnt expect to rock parites.

    Let us know how yoru new setup sounds. I would love to try 17D2 one day.

    Enjoy,

  7. #7
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Where did you get this 3mV figure?
    basite came up with 0.23mV output from ETM.com, but Dynavector claims 0.3mV.

    Dynavector's site gives 0.3mV for the 17D3, a quick google search gave me a dynavector page for the 17D2, which is 0.26mV

    (link to site for 17D2 specs: http://www.dynavector.co.jp/english/...rt/e_17d2.html )

    as JRA also said, it will work. Just don't expect the full qualities of the cart...
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  8. #8
    Forum Regular Corto Maltese's Avatar
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    Lapsus cantum...

    Sorry for my typing mistake.
    Dynavector is history, I was not fast enough. But, today I ended up with Grado Platinum (4.8 mV). Local dealer set it up, and I don’t have any need to play with his set-up. Maybe Grado is not the best cart out there, but Linn reacts very, very well with it. All together, system got serious improvement. Nice, round, mellow, well balanced sound, with decent sound stage, keeping the detail at a reasonably high level. For the money, system is now excellent. One could prefer more details, or more highs, or something else… I would recommend this combination to anybody on the budget. One thing is excruciatingly important: proper set-up. Let a pro do it. This Grado is Moving Iron, and they apparently are sometimes as sensitive as MCs.
    Thanks for your comments, guys. It does help, and auditioning is something that I do not have too much time for. And sorry for not responding in a timely manner – I had to make some dough, and in my business that means a few days out at a time.
    Thanks!

  9. #9
    Forum Regular Corto Maltese's Avatar
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    BTW, the gentleman that got that Dynavector cart said something very interesting. On his table and (higher mass) arm, that thing outperformed Naim CDS3 that he has. If you ever get a chance to get it, you must. I thought I couldn’t use it, so I didn’t get it.
    Yes, you have to love vinyl, and be ready to get up and flip / change the disc…
    I still enjoy the sound. Source is just a tool and if that means little bit of inconvenience, so be it.
    I am very happy with Grado cart – it outperformed Shure easily, but I would like to hear Dynavector on my Axis. Karat is at home on TT where the platter is 35 lbs, and the arm costs $2500(+). It would be interesting what would do with Axis and Basic + combination.

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