Courtney Love vs. Madonna

[ForeverAutumn]

If Courtney Love hadn't married Kurt Cobain would we even know who she was?

Courtney Love vs. Madonna

Courtney Love has launched a scathing attack on Madonna, dismissing her music and career as "a joke."

The former Hole star is understood to be working on new solo material, as well as overseeing the upcoming Kurt Cobain biopic.

In a new online posting, she proclaims herself a "bionic" worker, while insisting the Queen of Pop is "weak" and "calculating."

"Madonna is a great businesswoman but come on, she's weak as an artist and we all know it. I like Madge but as a relevant musician it's a joke," Courtney said.

"She's singing from such a calculating, thought-out place all the time. It's never from her gut or heart of intuition, so maybe it sounds great and slick and you can hum it.

"Hard work and major discipline doesn't equal great art and all of those are great things - I covet them. I have great discipline and I do work like a bionic thing," Love concluded.

[nobody]

I pretty much agree with her on Madonna, even if she does overstate her own abilities.

I mean, when is it that the worm turned and people started considering Madonna a serious artist? She was always considered just a pop star that used her sex appeal to get attention and sell records from what I remember in the 80s. Seems like nowadays, she's made enough money that people fawn all over her, when I don't really see that her MO has changed much at all. Personally, I rate her right alongside the Spice Girls and all those Boy Bands. They sell a lot of slickly produced product, but not the kind of thing I care about at all.

But, that's just because I don't really much care for dance pop music. If that's your thing, maybe you think she's great and all. Although personally it seems to me that she's like many pop artists in that the real secret of the records lies in the production teams and collaborators that actually create the music, while the artist strolls in and provides image and some vocals they can process the heck out of the make 'em fit the template. But, really Courtney and Madonna come from completely different worlds.

From my perspective, I'll take Live Through This over anything Madonna ever has or ever will release.

[GMichael]

CAT FIGHT!!!

[jim goulding]

Madonna is all about production and she has a big time machine behind her. The guy that put her career in second gear is Shep Pettibone. Bedtime Stories had several producers on it. Pettibone is history. That's the way it goes. She and her machine manage her career very well. I think Courtney Love is a more creative artist. I do like Madonna's husband's work, tho. Like to see more of it.

[3-LockBox]

Madonna is insufferable, to be sure, what with that phony accent and all, but to say she isn't talented is wrong. Sure she's calculating, but then so is the music industry. If Madonna wasn't as clever as she was, she'd a lasted for 5 years and then dropped out of site just like every other pop star. Hell, George Michael couldn't stay relevant for more than 5 years. Yes, Madonna used sexuallity as a draw as much as her music, but then again, she didn't invent that MO, she merely mastered it.

But you have to admit Madonna worked her ass off. She took vocal lessons after her second album and maintained them for much of her career. She kept herself in amazing shape and put on shows that rivaled the best of Vegas. And she flaunted sex, toyed with religious dogma and sexual taboos. She pimped herself like no other before or since. Others have tried to do that and they've failed miserably (Spears).

But if Madonna had never left Michigan and never made an album I wouldn't care. Someone would have taken her place. I don't care for her music, but I do admire her guile. She marketed herself and controlled her destiny instead of letting the attention deficit industry do it for her.

Courtney Love had sex with a rock star who gets more praise than he deserves, who has been deified as an icon because he killed himself (if Love deserves any credit here, I don't know). She's skank through and through - she tried to use sex as a marketing ploy too, its just in this case, she grossed people out. She's a crack whore, which might be why she's so deluded, and it explains why Love thinks the public wants another drug addled rant about Madonna, for whom Love seems to have an obsession.

As far as an actual fight twix the two, I'd pull for Madonna, but I dunno, Courtney would be a tough one. Sure, Madonna is in impecable shape, but Love has survived years of getting knocked to the ground and having her ribs kicked in by drug dealers wanting their money...it would be hard for me to bet against her.

[Swish]

I pretty much agree with her on Madonna, even if she does overstate her own abilities.

I mean, when is it that the worm turned and people started considering Madonna a serious artist? She was always considered just a pop star that used her sex appeal to get attention and sell records from what I remember in the 80s. Seems like nowadays, she's made enough money that people fawn all over her, when I don't really see that her MO has changed much at all. Personally, I rate her right alongside the Spice Girls and all those Boy Bands. They sell a lot of slickly produced product, but not the kind of thing I care about at all.

But, that's just because I don't really much care for dance pop music. If that's your thing, maybe you think she's great and all. Although personally it seems to me that she's like many pop artists in that the real secret of the records lies in the production teams and collaborators that actually create the music, while the artist strolls in and provides image and some vocals they can process the heck out of the make 'em fit the template. But, really Courtney and Madonna come from completely different worlds.

From my perspective, I'll take Live Through This over anything Madonna ever has or ever will release.

...over-the-top regarding her voice lessons and shows. Her voice is passable at best, and I don't pay to see musicians dance, I WANT TO HEAR MUSIC, so fuck the Madonnas and Michael Jacksons of the world. The only reason they dance is because the music is BORING. Otherwise, why bother? If the music can't stand on its own, who need it.

Swish

[Slosh]

I'll take The People vs. Larry Flynt over Dick Tracy any day

NP:

[SlumpBuster]

Courtney Love had sex with a rock star who gets more praise than he deserves, who has been deified as an icon because he killed himself (if Love deserves any credit here, I don't know). She's skank through and through - she tried to use sex as a marketing ploy too, its just in this case, she grossed people out. She's a crack whore, which might be why she's so deluded, and it explains why Love thinks the public wants another drug addled rant about Madonna, for whom Love seems to have an obsession.

First, best quote I ever heard regarding Courtney Love was when she was on a radio show and a caller asked her "What are you gonna do when the shoebox full of songs you found under Kurt's deathbed is empty?"


I agree that Kobain get more praise than he deserves. I never thought anything about Courtney and didn't pay any attention until Little Steven started playing selections from from America's Sweetheart on the Underground Garage. I'm sucker for Little Steven and will take a second look at any thing he recommends. He said something like "Screw you if you can't see through all the hype, these are good songs." So I checked it out, including the back catalogue, and as a result I discovered Courtney and Hole after it was all over and the hits had stopped (i.e. the last two years).

If Kurt gets too much praise, Courtney doesn't get enough. I'm not calling for alot of praise, just an acknowledgment that there were in fact some good songs. Plus, Courtney's songs will stand the ravages of time much better than Madonna's. Did you ever hear that lame song from American Life where Madonna raps?! Uhgg, its unbearable. When I imagine my own kids flipping through my stacks of CDs in 10-15 years America's Sweetheart is going to appeal to them much more than American Life.

[3-LockBox]

...over-the-top regarding her voice lessons and shows. Her voice is passable at best, and I don't pay to see musicians dance,

Not over-the-top at all...

She has said she's taken vocal lessons. Her voice steadily improved (IMO of course) from her first album to middle period, but like I said, I don't care for that style of music anyway. No, I don't want to pay to watch people to dance either. But she is successful and there is no denying that lots of people like it, buy it, pay to see it, whatever. My point is, I'm sure she could give a rats ass what any of us think, much less a skank like Courtney Love.

[3-LockBox]

When I imagine my own kids flipping through my stacks of CDs in 10-15 years America's Sweetheart is going to appeal to them much more than American Life.

People who listen to pop could care less who was what 50 years ago.

My problem with what Courtney said about Madonna doesn't stem from a like of Madonna, but the fact that Love likes to make statements about Madonna every great once in a while, and I find that curious. Courtney plays rock, Madonna is a pop star...its an apples to oranges comparison, so Love should just let it go. She seems to be saying, "why her and not me" and it sounds pathetic. Niether one of them are terribly relevant anymore anyway, so **** both of them.

[jim goulding]

People who listen to pop couldn't care less who was what 50 years age? Speak for yourself. I cut my teeth on grand opera and blues 50 years ago and I listen to pop. My daughter who is now generation is starting to warm up to classic jazz. She streams it at work and at home. We are in a minority, I suppose, but I get the feeling a lot of listeners here and elsewhere have musical tastes beyond their years. S***, man, just last week I listened to maxi EP of Madonna doing Deeper and Deeper. Sometime before that, some June Christy.

[Mr Peabody]

I agree with 3LB but give Madonna more credit. She can actually play the keyboards, she cut her own demos and relentlessly went to the New York clubs to get them played. She has always been on the cutting edge of her genre. It's all dance but she has continued to evolve her sound. I can't remember the album but the one with Frozen is an example. She went from Like A Virgin to Like A Prayer, both Pop, but Like A Prayer is a more substantial song. On the recording of Vogue she used the Hughes 3D gadget. I really don't like how she is posing now. But I guess she has always pretended to be something or somebody she isn't. If Madonna wasn't here I don't think anyone would take her place, no one could, and no one compares. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other Pop star who has lasted and continues as she has. Well, Prince, was back in the day and still puts out music if you want to call it that. If you can think of any Pop star whose career has lasted as long as hers let me know. Most today you don't see after the first album. You certainly don't see anyone else still selling her numbers that started with her back in the 80's. You may not like her but you can't deny her achievement.

I don't know much about Love except for her being in the news. I suspect that's all this thing with Madonna is, getting her name out there. And, who better to attack. You have to attack some one that will attract some attention. If you all say it's relevant I'll have to check out some Hole. I might have heard something and just not known who it was.

[jim goulding]

Yeah, Pea. Yu right. She made the scene in the early days and I'm bettin she enjoyed it. And there is no dispute about her longevity. I confess to liking Love's first album and I think she would have gotten some attention in Seattle and from the industry on her own. It's probably us that are taking her comments out of perspective if not context. There IS some truth there and some resentment evidently for her sayin it. I give her an A-. LOL.

[E-Stat]

She has said she's taken vocal lessons.

She did that for Evita in '96. I find that her voice control improved considerably between Bedtime Stories in '94 and Ray of Light in '98.

I've never been a fan of her persona or dancing, but I've always liked her music and the fine production. I have a number of 45 RPM 12" singles that are sonic gems.

rw

[Swish]

Not over-the-top at all...

She has said she's taken vocal lessons. Her voice steadily improved (IMO of course) from her first album to middle period, but like I said, I don't care for that style of music anyway. No, I don't want to pay to watch people to dance either. But she is successful and there is no denying that lots of people like it, buy it, pay to see it, whatever. My point is, I'm sure she could give a rats ass what any of us think, much less a skank like Courtney Love.

...I don't know anyone who believes they're the 'best' burgers. In fact, I would bet most of us agree they suck big time. It's the simple process of Lowest Common Denominator in my opinion, just like Madonna's music. She sells a ton of music to teeny-boppers with no taste. Big deal.

Swish