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  1. #1
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    Unhappy First DVD-A...

    ...And it won't play. The DVD changer is a Panny DVD-F87, and the receiver is a Yamaha HTR 5740. The audio settings on the changer are: PCM Digital Output = up to 96KHz, Dobly Digital = Bitstream, DTS Digital Surround = Bitstream. The changer reads the disk then starts playing like I'd expect, but there's no audio. Lit indicators are: "DVD" (selected) "D.Mix", "PRG" (progressive scan for video) the track number, and "GRP" (group 1) which I can't find any info about in the manual. When the changer is in play mode, some functions at the remote don't work (I know that some aren't supposed to) or return a sluggish response from the player. The PCM indicator on the receiver is lit along with the Dolby PL light, but only the front left & right speaker indicators are lit. Also, when I run a white noise test from the changer, I only hear sound from the left & right, which makes sense. I'm able to switch the receiver to DTS and select Neo:6 music, but I don't think that makes any difference anyway. At the TV I see the screen flash some rectangle boxes, the screen goes blank after that for about a second, and then it's back at the DVD logo. This sequence repeats constantly. I'm sure this isn't enough info, but it's about all I can think of to put out here.

    I have no idea what's wrong or what to do next, but I'll be real disappointed if I bought a bad DVD-A from CD Universe.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Rich

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    My brother has one of these F changers. I have not read the manual recently but if I do recall properly, it will only play DVD-A in two channel mode.

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    I believe that DVA-Audio, like SACD, must be decoded in the player, not the receiver.

    Unless things have changed recently, I believe you need to have the player to decode the DVD-Audio tracks and then pass them, via the six analog outputs on the player, to six corresponding inputs on the receiver.

    IOW, receivers DO handle DD, DTS (via bitstream) and redbook CD (via PCM) decoding via a digital feed (coax or toslink) but they don't handle the hi-rez formats, at least not yet.

  4. #4
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    Yeah like markw said, unless you're connected via the multi-channel analog you're going to get nada from DVD-A.

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    What are the audio formats ....

    Some DVD-A's have a variety of audio formats on them. In most cases they will have a DTS 5.1, Dolby Digital 5.1 mix, which can go through your digital connection (coax or optical) however there should also be MLP 5.1, which can only go through 5.1 analog connections. I looked up that player and it does have the 5.1 analog outputs, which you willl need to connect to the receiver if you want to listen to MLP, but if you just want to listen to DTS or DD on the disc than you only need your digital connection. Most likely you will have to go into the settings on the actual player and tell it which mode to play in as well. On my DVD player you have to go under menu, then audio, then output and change the DVD-A setting from either DVD-Video ro DVD-Audio. When the machine is in DVD-Audio mode it will want to read the MLP portion and when it is in DVD-Video mode it will want to read the digital portion. I am sure that this is what you are experiencing and this should fix the issue. I've had loads of experience and problems with this same thing. One other thing...make sure that your receiver is set up to do either digital or analog based on what the player is sending it...sometimes the receiver has an 'auto' setting so it will automatically play either digital or analog if that's what is coming....mine also has a multi-channel imput that I must select when doing 5.1 analog (DVD-A or SACD).

    Ask more questions if this doesn't help.

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    Operator's Guide = Worthless!!!

    Well, there's nothing in the guide to indicate extra cabling is required, but the guide is extremely hard to follow anyway, at least for my eyes.

    I read machani's review of this player, and some quotes include:
    Quote Originally Posted by machani
    I bought this DVD-changer for two reasons: DVD-Audio playback and multi-disk capability. The F87 appears to be an exact replica of the Panasonic F85, except that the digital audio output is coaxial instead of optical which the F85 has. It can play a variety of formats: DVD, DVD-A, DVD-RAM, SACD, VCD, CD, CD-RW, etc.
    And this:

    Quote Originally Posted by machani
    CONNECTIONS: I connected the player using component video cables, since I have a HD TV monitor. I also I have it connected to my JVC RX-6030 receiver using the digital coax and also to my Cayin TA-30 tube amplifier using RCA cables (in stereo mode). I use the JVC receiver for movies and the Cayin amplifier for music in stereo mode.
    I just looked at a diagram of the back of the changer and did notice accomodations for 5.1 analog output so I guess I mis-interpreted what he said in his review. And I guess you have to tell the changer to output to those connections "in stereo mode" right? My receiver will accept a six channel analog input, and I've got boatloads of RCA cables so I guess it's worth the money I paid for the DVD to connect it up.

    Thanks for the help all.

    PS: Thanks PS. You responded while I was composing this (at work so I have to fit actual work in) so there'll be some redundancy here. -Rich

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    Yes, more questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
    Some DVD-A's have a variety of audio formats on them. In most cases they will have a DTS 5.1, Dolby Digital 5.1 mix, which can go through your digital connection (coax or optical) however there should also be MLP 5.1, which can only go through 5.1 analog connections. I looked up that player and it does have the 5.1 analog outputs, which you willl need to connect to the receiver if you want to listen to MLP, but if you just want to listen to DTS or DD on the disc than you only need your digital connection. Most likely you will have to go into the settings on the actual player and tell it which mode to play in as well. On my DVD player you have to go under menu, then audio, then output and change the DVD-A setting from either DVD-Video ro DVD-Audio. When the machine is in DVD-Audio mode it will want to read the MLP portion and when it is in DVD-Video mode it will want to read the digital portion. I am sure that this is what you are experiencing and this should fix the issue. I've had loads of experience and problems with this same thing. One other thing...make sure that your receiver is set up to do either digital or analog based on what the player is sending it...sometimes the receiver has an 'auto' setting so it will automatically play either digital or analog if that's what is coming....mine also has a multi-channel imput that I must select when doing 5.1 analog (DVD-A or SACD).

    Ask more questions if this doesn't help.
    ...What does MLP stand for, just for my own information.

    And now the obligitory and sometimes inflamatory cable question: Since we have analog frequencies present at these outputs, what consideration should I give to cabling? I said I have boatloads of RCA cables but is there a prefered configuration? I'll only need about a 1 meter length and I'm a big fan of Acoustic Research.

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    Meridian Lossless Packing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    ...What does MLP stand for, just for my own information.

    And now the obligitory and sometimes inflamatory cable question: Since we have analog frequencies present at these outputs, what consideration should I give to cabling? I said I have boatloads of RCA cables but is there a prefered configuration? I'll only need about a 1 meter length and I'm a big fan of Acoustic Research.

    this is what MLP stands for. There are a few sites out there that explain what it is in more detail. It's essentially a high-rez format that in most cases offers more refinement and definition over DTS or DD. I, however, always find myself preferring the thickness of DTS over MLP.

  9. #9
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    don't sweat the cable s too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    And now the obligitory and sometimes inflamatory cable question: Since we have analog frequencies present at these outputs, what consideration should I give to cabling? I said I have boatloads of RCA cables but is there a prefered configuration? I'll only need about a 1 meter length and I'm a big fan of Acoustic Research.
    All you need is six solid analog cables with RCA's on the ends, and that one meter length pretty makes anything else moot. AR cables are more than adequate but you might try what you have lying around first. The point of diminishing returns is a lot lower on cables than the marketing mavens want you to believe.

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    Those 5.1 analog outputs may only output dolby digital or dts from a built in dolby digital/dts in that player. I do not believe that player has a decoder for 5.1 DVD-A, but only a 2.0 or a 2.1 DVD-A. MLP if I am correct stands for Meridian Lossless Packing which is another name for DVD-A sound. I think Meridian had some input on the invention of this.

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    Uhhh... I think K's right.

    Quote Originally Posted by kelsci
    Those 5.1 analog outputs may only output dolby digital or dts from a built in dolby digital/dts in that player. I do not believe that player has a decoder for 5.1 DVD-A, but only a 2.0 or a 2.1 DVD-A. MLP if I am correct stands for Meridian Lossless Packing which is another name for DVD-A sound. I think Meridian had some input on the invention of this.
    I was under the assumption that you were working with a DVD-Audio player, but upon checking it out on the web, this doesn't look like one of them.

    Just like if you had wanted to play back SACD discs, you would need a player that's capable of it, you need a player that's capable of playing DVD-Audio discs.

    As you just found out, just because it says "DVD" doens't mean it'll play back the hi-rez DVD-Audio format in just any DVD player. You may get something, but it won't be Hi-Rez DVD-Audio.

    Sorry for the misleading info before. It just proves that the word "assume" consists of three distinct parts.

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    Mlp

    MLP - Meridian Lossless Packing is the data-reduction technique selected for DVD-Audio. MLP sounds better because it is a lossless data algorithm. It is not like MP3 for instance. You get back exactly what you put it, so it does not distort or change any of the audio information. MLP on average reduces the size of the file by about 50%. So, with MLP you can put 6 channels of 24/96 on the disk, and still not hit the 9.6 Mbs data limitation. MLP can also be used to simply get longer recording times onto the disk.

    According to the specs on CRUTCHFIELD that player does do DVD-Audio...here is the spec sheet...

    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-C3NnHLV...133DVDF87S#Tab

  13. #13
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    Well, that's good news for both RiT and I.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
    According to the specs on CRUTCHFIELD that player does do DVD-Audio...here is the spec sheet...

    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-C3NnHLV...133DVDF87S#Tab
    It's good for RiT in that he CAN do DVD-Audio after all and for me as it seems the only mistake I made here is thinking I made one.

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    Well, the guide does say DVD-A...

    Yes, it will "playback" DVD-A and HDCD, and even though the specs @ crutchfield don't show the 5.1 audio out RCA jacks, I do still have to use them correct?

    Note: I have the uncanny ability to make things more confusing and complicated than they need to be, witnessed by markw's false mistake. It doesn't even have to be obvious.

    OTOH, he's from North Jerrrsey, (I from SJ) so we can't be too sure anyway!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Yes, it will "playback" DVD-A and HDCD, and even though the specs @ crutchfield don't show the 5.1 audio out RCA jacks, I do still have to use them correct?
    Yeah, the only way to getDVD-Audio is vis those analog jacks. IT sounds like your manual was written as a well as my Denon 2802 manual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Note: I have the uncanny ability to make things more confusing and complicated than they need to be, witnessed by markw's false mistake. It doesn't even have to be obvious.

    OTOH, he's from North Jerrrsey, (I from SJ) so we can't be too sure anyway!
    SJ? Wazzat? South Jersey? I thought you were from Texas?

  16. #16
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    More clarity and/or possible confusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Yes, it will "playback" DVD-A and HDCD, and even though the specs @ crutchfield don't show the 5.1 audio out RCA jacks, I do still have to use them correct?

    Note: I have the uncanny ability to make things more confusing and complicated than they need to be, witnessed by markw's false mistake. It doesn't even have to be obvious.

    OTOH, he's from North Jerrrsey, (I from SJ) so we can't be too sure anyway!
    Rich...

    If you take my advice from earlier you should be golden. I think that will solve the issue, however I wanted to at least offer one more piece that is important in some cases. My example in this case will be the DVD-A of Hotel California.

    There are 4 possible ways to listen to this DVD-A. It has the following audio options:

    DTS 5.1
    Dolby Digital 2.0
    Advanced Resolution Surround (MLP)
    Advanced Resolution Stereo 2.0

    Now, here's the thing...you are only given 2 options at a time, depending on if your player is set to DVD-VIdeo or DVD-Audio. You MUST on most machines tell the machine to play DVD-Video or DVD-Audio while the machine does NOT have anything in the tray, otherwise the option to change it is blocked off.

    So, let's say you have it set for DVD-Audio, then the menu pops up and you can choose (in my examples case) either Advanced Resolution stereo or surround. In order to choose DTS or DD you have to stop the disc and go into the players setup and choose DVD-Video in order to get the digital audio choices (DD or DTS).

    Not all DVD-A's are like this, oddly enough the outside of the Hotel California does not even mention that it has DTS, whereas the Fleetwood Mac DVD-A for SAY YOU WILL claims to have DTS, but actually does NOT, just in case you were considering picking up these titles.

    On most DVD-A you are given all of the audio options from ONE menu and when you have your digital connection and analog connections ready to go than when you switch from digital to analog the only thing you should have to do is change your receiver from digital to analog, depending on what you are playing. Like I said before, you probably have a multi-channel button on your receiver for when you are playing SACD or DVD-A (MLP stuff).

    I know that this sounds incredibly confusing and that is one reason why most people don't bother with DVD-A as it's a pain in the butt to get going and you also need to have on-screen stuff happening to you know what to select, SACD is much easier in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    Yeah, the only way to getDVD-Audio is vis those analog jacks.
    No you don't. You can play DVD-Audio without 5.1 analog jacks, you however will NOT be able to play the Advanced Resolution/MLP audio portions. You can still play the DTS or DD parts of the disc. In which case all you need is a digital coax or optical connection.

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    I dig into to your example ASAP PS. Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    I dig into to your example ASAP PS. Thanks again.
    If, after you try the solutions that I recommended, you are still having issues you can call me and I can walk you through some other possibilities....i've fussed around with tons of DVD-A over the years and dealt with many difficult players as well in the process. I have about 25 DVD-A's and once SACD came around I haven't really bought too many more. They are pretty good, but now they have such a limited selection. I am waiting for more Queen DVD-A's, but doesn't look like that is going to happen. It's too bad too cause they are really good in 5.1.

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    Which DVD-A title are you using anyway?

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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
    No you don't. You can play DVD-Audio without 5.1 analog jacks, you however will NOT be able to play the Advanced Resolution/MLP audio portions. You can still play the DTS or DD parts of the disc. In which case all you need is a digital coax or optical connection.
    Hell, anybody can do DD/DTS with a standard DVD player and any HT receiver. Do you really think that's what he's asking about here?

    Why in pulperfect he!! would anyone want to bother buying a DVD-Audio player and a DVD-Audio disc unless they wanted to lsten to what you are so fond of referring to "the Advanced Resolution/MLP audio portions", or what normal people simply call "DVD-Audio"?

    Do you even bother to think about what you're saying. or are you operating on autopilot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    Hell, anybody can do DD/DTS with a standard DVD player and any HT receiver. Do you really think that's what he's asking about here?

    Why in pulperfect he!! would anyone want to bother buying a DVD-Audio player and a DVD-Audio disc unless they wanted to lsten to what you are so fond of referring to "the Advanced Resolution/MLP audio portions", or what normal people simply call "DVD-Audio"?

    Do you even bother to think about what you're saying. or are you operating on autopilot?
    Oh please. You are just upset because I corrected you when you were absolutely wrong on the matter. Don't say things that are only partially true. You made a statement that is not 100% correct. You CAN play DVD-A's without having the 6 analog connections, so maybe you should revise your comment and simply say that you MUST have analog in order to play advanced resolution or MLP.

    Don't blame me for your errors.

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    Whatever...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
    Oh please. You are just upset because I corrected you when you were absolutely wrong on the matter. Don't say things that are only partially true. You made a statement that is not 100% correct. You CAN play DVD-A's without having the 6 analog connections, so maybe you should revise your comment and simply say that you MUST have analog in order to play advanced resolution or MLP.

    Don't blame me for your errors.
    I wasn't wrong. I knew what he was asking and responded in kind. You just want to show how many words you can spew out and confuse the issue.

    Now, if all he wanted was DD/DTS, then you're right. But, if he really wanted that "DVD-Audio", then you're just a showboating blowhard but, I guess when you live in mommy's cellar you have a lot of time to play these games.

    Now, if you can tell us how he can get "DVD-AUDIO", in the sense the whole world knows it as, via a digital connection, then I'll apologize. If not, you're spewing verbal diarrhea again, which you seem to be getting a well-deserved reputation for here.

    Remember, it''s not how many words you use to hide an answer a question in, it's how few and how clear one makes it. Try, for once, directly answering a question when asked and dazzling with brilliance instead of baffling with BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    It's good for RiT in that he CAN do DVD-Audio after all and for me as it seems the only mistake I made here is thinking I made one.
    Do you have issues with being proved wrong? Apparently so. You can't deal with the fact that you were not right with what you posted. Rich also found all the information that I provided helpful, which is why he responded with...

    I dig into to your example ASAP PS. Thanks again.
    If he just follows what I told him to do instead of getting confused by your statements about how you HAVE to have analog to play DVD-A's than this would go much smoother. Maybe you need to stay out of things that you don't know very much about or be more careful when providing a solution with the words you use.

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    Musta hit a nerve.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
    Do you have issues with being proved wrong?
    No, but I wasn't wrong. Why am I not wrong? Simple. He isn't complaining about not getting DD/DTS.

    Granted, you don't need analog connections to geplay DVD-A's, but you do need them to play what the worlds calls "DVD-Audio"

    Now, if you thought all he wanted to do is play DD/DTS, then you have that a reading comprehension problem along with perhaps several grossly apparant personality disorders.

    It's plainly clear to all here, except perhaps you, that he wanted what the worlds calls "DVD-Audio" and, for that you NEED the analog cionnections. Wanna argue that? If you couldn't discern that from the thread then you're obviously lacking a few things upstairs. To much ego and not enough brains.

    As is plain for all to see, you 're the only one playing word games here but if that's the only way you can claim victory, then feel proud of yourself, child.

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