Newb has a new toy

[traut]

Hello all, being just under 30, I grew up in the digital age. I thought that vinyl was a dead medium, until I started visiting this site. Anyway, I was driving by a local audio store yesterday, and decided that I'd drop by and have a listen to some records on some quality equipment. Being a rookie, I asked the salesman to demo their entry level model, which was the Rega P2. He A/B'd a few albums with their CD counterparts, and I almost could not believe the difference! The bass, dynamics, and even detail were so much better with the vinyl. The Rega is $500 plus the cost of the cartridge, which I really could not afford at the time. They also had a used Systemdek IIX TT with a Profile arm and a Rega cartridge for sale for $200, so I asked him to demo that. I was impressed enough that I decided to buy it and play and learn with it as much as I could.

Anyway, I got home and found out that my HK receiver does not have a phono stage built in, so my first mission is finding a phono preamp. I'd like to keep the cost to $100 or less, but if I had to spend a little more to get a big jump in quality, I'm OK with that. What are my options in that price range? Also, what would you recommend doing next? Are there any inexpensive tweaks that can help the sound quality? Are there any websites dedicated to educating an analog newb like myself?

Thanks so much in advance for any and all responses.

Regards,
traut

[JohnMichael]

Welcome to AR and the world of vinyl. I would like to make several recomondations for you. www.needledoctor.com and click on phono cartridges and there is a link about installing cartridges that is good. Also check out www.amusicdirect.com for phono preamps. MD and the Needle doctor carry preamps at many price levels. Also www.partsexpress.com sell some inexpensive phono preamps but I have not heard any of them. Music Direct sells some turntable tweaks and they are very helpful if you call them. I am not familiar with your table other than by reputation which is good. I own a Rega Planar 2 and have made several modifications to it. Tweaks really do help kick it up a notch in performance. My most recent tweak was putting metal cones under the table. The cones were taller than the rubber feet and they are not in contact with shelf. The bass is tighter and the overall sound is cleaner. The idea is to drain vibrations from the table which are more harmful to the sound. Hope some of this helps.

[JohnMichael]

I am using a Rotel RQ 970BX phono preamp that is a good preamp for the price which when new is $200.00. I would think you could find a used one for not a lot of money. You might want to check out Ebay or Audiogon.

[Geoffcin]

I am using a Rotel RQ 970BX phono preamp that is a good preamp for the price which when new is $200.00. I would think you could find a used one for not a lot of money. You might want to check out Ebay or Audiogon.

Although there's a lot more pricy ones on there than affordable ones on there.

The other option would be a vintage pre-amp, or receiver. Both will have phono amps built in. My PS Audio IV has a great phono stage in it, and sometimes you can pick those up for cheap.

[jrhymeammo]

If anybody's on a budget that'll be me, oh yeah. And I aint afraid to show it. I hope I managed to insert 2 photos. If you do experience some vibration issue, try the first photo. It'll cost you under 8 bucks. 3 to 4 Hockey pucks, 3-4 hard brass screws (make sure the head is wide enough), and a hint of poster sticky dilly. Bass will become sooooooooo much tighter and treble will become crisper than KFC!!!!!!! This will work trust me. I know that I've posted the same stuff in a past but decided to post in case you havent seen it.
Here is my new budet tweak. I live in a dry area so static is an issue. Throw away your felt mat if you got one, and go buy a non-slip vinyl placemat 9 or maybe it's that thing you place under a placemat). I dont know what it's called so ask your mom, I got it as a Big Lot for 59 cents. Just trim that sucker accordingly, then Bam!!!! check out the photo, looks like I spent 30 bucks on it. It is about 3mm, 1/9 inch think so it shouldn't effect 97% of vinyl out there.
I hope this helps alot of people out there. If it looks too ugly then go spend $50-9999 on other stuff that'll perform slightly to marginally better.

[jrhymeammo]

Oops, I got too excited about the tweaks and forgot why you posted. This one is fairly close to your budget. http://www.amusicdirect.com/products...?sku=ASUMPHONO I heard this one the other day at my friend's place. I thought it was really good little box. It's already over $20 over your budet and you would have to spend more on interconnects for your new phono pre-amp to your HK. Though people can argue for hours on this issue, I would skimp out too much on cables. I use Alpha Core Micropurl Silver and couldnt be happier.

[jrhymeammo]

"I would skimp out too much on cables."

Damnit!!!!! I meant to write "I would NOT skimp out too much on cables"
Peace.

[JohnMichael]

I am using a Rotel RQ 970BX phono preamp that is a good preamp for the price which when new is $200.00. I would think you could find a used one for not a lot of money. You might want to check out Ebay or Audiogon.

I checked www.audiogon.com and they have a used Rotel RQ 970BX listed for $125.00.

[traut]

thanks for all of the help so far, I've got a few questions...

Geoffcin - I did an ebay search, and there are quite a few preamps with phono stages available for <$100. Would I be able to use a regualar preamp with my receiver? Would the output from the pre just go into a standard audio component input on the receiver?

Anybody - the preamps that caught my eye on ebay are from NAD (1130 and 1020), Rotel (RQ-970BX), Dynaco (PAT 4), and Pioneer (C-21). Besides, the Rotel, which JohnMichael already mentined, does anyone have any experience with these or similar models? (esp. w/ the phono stage). There's also a NAD PP-1 phono preamp on Audiogon.

JM and jrhymeammo - thanks for the links and advice!

[Geoffcin]

thanks for all of the help so far, I've got a few questions...

Geoffcin - I did an ebay search, and there are quite a few preamps with phono stages available for <$100. Would I be able to use a regualar preamp with my receiver? Would the output from the pre just go into a standard audio component input on the receiver?

Anybody - the preamps that caught my eye on ebay are from NAD (1130 and 1020), Rotel (RQ-970BX), Dynaco (PAT 4), and Pioneer (C-21). Besides, the Rotel, which JohnMichael already mentined, does anyone have any experience with these or similar models? (esp. w/ the phono stage). There's also a NAD PP-1 phono preamp on Audiogon.

JM and jrhymeammo - thanks for the links and advice!

That's EXACTLY what I do with mine. You can simply feed the output of the preamp into the aux/tape 2 or such input on your receiver.

[Bernd]

Hello Traut,

Congrats on your purchase. The Systemdeck is a very fine TT. It was made in Scotland to compete with the Linn TTs. When CD (convenience) became more important than Vinyl (soundquality), the Ramsay family sold the rights to the Systemdecks to Audio Note UK and they're still making TTs to that design today. The Ramsay brothers now manufacture Loudspeakers (www.loudspeaker-art.com). But I am rambling, sorry.
If it were me I would go for a stand alone Phonoamp, because a phono stage in an Integrated amp is at best acceptable but often just an after thought.
The Nad you mentioned is a good stage, but I think you can do better.
The Project Phonobox LE2004 is the best sub £99 stage in my opinion and will blow any integrated stage into the water.
If you are prepared to spent a bit more you would have the Creek OBH-32SE or the Musical Fidelity XLPSV3 for similar outlay of £250. But for £299 you would get a Trichord Dino and that is what I think the Systemdeck deserves.
I would then change the arm to a Rega RB250 and have it re wired with Cardas cable and the counterweight changed to a Michell Counterweight.
Then tackle the Cartridge.
I know it's a lot to take in but playing vinyl is not about "insert disc, press play and forget".
If you go too cheap with the Vinyl replay chain you will become aware that it isn't quite getting it right; so much so that it detracts from the enjoyment of what is basically the highest resolution consumer music carrier we have available to us.
If done right you will not want to listen to Digital too much.
Hope this helps and feel free to ask any questions. Nothing is easier then to play a record incorectly.
Have fun

Peace

Bernd

[JohnMichael]

Hello Traut,

Congrats on your purchase. The Systemdeck is a very fine TT. It was made in Scotland to compete with the Linn TTs. When CD (convenience) became more important than Vinyl (soundquality), the Ramsay family sold the rights to the Systemdecks to Audio Note UK and they're still making TTs to that design today. The Ramsay brothers now manufacture Loudspeakers (www.loudspeaker-art.com). But I am rambling, sorry.
If it were me I would go for a stand alone Phonoamp, because a phono stage in an Integrated amp is at best acceptable but often just an after thought.
The Nad you mentioned is a good stage, but I think you can do better.
The Project Phonobox LE2004 is the best sub £99 stage in my opinion and will blow any integrated stage into the the water.
If you are prepared to spent a bit more you would have the Creek OBH-32SE or the Musical Fidelity XLPSV3 for similar outlay of £250. But for £299 you would get a Trichord Dino and that is what I think the Systemdeck deserves.
I would then change the arm to a Rega RB250 and have it re wired with Cardas cable and the counterweight changed to a Michell Counterweight.
Then tackle the Cartridge.
I know it's a lot to take in but playing vinyl is not about "insert disc, press play and forget".
If you go too cheap with the Vinyl replay chain you will become aware that it isn't quite getting it right; so much so that it detracts from the enjoyment of what is basically the highest resolution consumer music carrier we have available to us.
If done right you will not want to listen to Digital too much.
Hope this helps and feel free to ask any questions. Nothing is easier then to play a record incorectly.
Have fun

Peace

Bernd

I have to second the rewired RB250 tonearm. Mine is rewired and it is a definite improvement. Vinyl is a hands on activity but your time and tweaks will be rewarded with incredible sound.

[traut]

The Project Phonobox LE2004 is the best sub £99 stage in my opinion and will blow any integrated stage into the water.
If you are prepared to spent a bit more you would have the Creek OBH-32SE or the Musical Fidelity XLPSV3 for similar outlay of £250. But for £299 you would get a Trichord Dino and that is what I think the Systemdeck deserves.
I would then change the arm to a Rega RB250 and have it re wired with Cardas cable and the counterweight changed to a Michell Counterweight.
Then tackle the Cartridge.

Bernd - Thanks for the advice, and the history lesson

This is my first TT, and right now the budget is limited (~$100), so I'll look into the Project Phonobox. I noticed these used items for sale on Audiogon today:

1. Creek OBH-8 - $150 + $11 (shipping) (also includes a Sumiko Bluepoint cartridge and the OBH2 upgaded power supply)
2. Parasound Z-Phono - $113 + $11

Does anybody have any experience with either of these?

[emorphien]

Congrats. I'm hoping to get a Rega P2 + cart soon. Not sure what cartridge to get just yet but I've got some ideas.

[Bernd]

Bernd - Thanks for the advice, and the history lesson

This is my first TT, and right now the budget is limited (~$100), so I'll look into the Project Phonobox. I noticed these used items for sale on Audiogon today:

1. Creek OBH-8 - $150 + $11 (shipping) (also includes a Sumiko Bluepoint cartridge and the OBH2 upgaded power supply)
2. Parasound Z-Phono - $113 + $11

Does anybody have any experience with either of these?

Don't know the Parasound so can't comment.
But the Creek sounds a great deal. It is already a decent stage, musically enjoyable and highly refined for the price and with the Sumiko cartridge and Creek power supply that's the one to go for. Just make sure that the cartridge is not dead and will damage your records.
The OBH-8 is set for MM and the OBH-9 for MC. Just had a look at Audiogon and I would buy that. The Sumiko Bluepoint is a high output 2.5mv mc cartridge and will work fine. You could use the cartridge as a trade in for a new Sumiko and you're away.
Good Luck

Bernd

[traut]

The OBH-8 is set for MM and the OBH-9 for MC. ...The Sumiko Bluepoint is a high output 2.5mv mc cartridge and will work fine. You could use the cartridge as a trade in for a new Sumiko and you're away.

Thanks Bernd!

So, since the OBH-8 is set for MM, does that mean it's not compatible with the Sumiko Bluepoint (which you wrote is an MC cart)? If so, I wonder why the seller is selling the two items together. The Systemdek that I purchased currently has a Rega cartridge (not sure which one) installed. Are all Rega's MM or MC, or am I going to have to find out which model it is to know?

There's a lot to all of this analog stuff, isn't there?

[JohnMichael]

Thanks Bernd!

So, since the OBH-8 is set for MM, does that mean it's not compatible with the Sumiko Bluepoint (which you wrote is an MC cart)? If so, I wonder why the seller is selling the two items together. The Systemdek that I purchased currently has a Rega cartridge (not sure which one) installed. Are all Rega's MM or MC, or am I going to have to find out which model it is to know?

There's a lot to all of this analog stuff, isn't there?

The Bluepoint is a moving coil but due to it's high output will work well into a moving magnet preamp. The Rega cartridge is a MM and will work well into a MM preamp. You can tell which Rega cart you have by the color of the body and check the Rega web page to find out which model you have.

[traut]

Cool, thanks again for all of the help!

One more question, guys. What is the normal life span of a decent cartridge? The Audiogon seller said that the Creek and Bluepoint both have about 600 hours on them.

[Bernd]

Hi Traut,

As John Michael said the Sumiko is a high output MC and will work well into the Creek.
As for cartridge life that really depends on how well cared for it was and what condition the records where in. I always check mine at 500 and then again at 800 hours under a Microscope.
Yes there is a lot to it, but isn't it fun?

Peace

Bernd

[traut]

Well, all my wishy-washyness cost me the OBH-8, so back to the classifieds.

I just found something that may be a good option, but I'm going to start a new thread with it.

Thanks again for the help though guys!