help me build my system

[michaeljr6]

hey guys i'm new to all of this and i'm hoping you guys can help me out. first of all, i'm thinking of building my system for my living room. if you guys can reccomend or any advice it would be a lot of help. my goal is to have a great sounding clear and loud 2 channel, so my imaginary setup is: L+Rspeakers would be by B&W DM 604 S2, preamp by Morrison ELAD, and two Odyssey Stratos stereo amp.

now if you guys can tell me if this is good or do i need to chang anything would be a lot of help to me.

[paul_pci]

You call this your imaginary set up, so am I to assume you haven't purchased said items yet? I think B&W 600 line is on series 3 now. Have you listened to said items? compared them to other potential purchases? Do you have a working budget? You're on the right track, just want to clarify where your at exactly.

[michaeljr6]

i've listen to them with almost the same setup minus the speakers. the speakers that were played on there were a pair of Martin Logan's. which was very nice to listen too. i'm not sure about the B&W being on par with martin logan. but should i choose a different set of speakers?

you are correct about the B&W series i just got them mixed up. well my budget is around $9K and if you guys could help me choose a product that would be great sounding around the price that would be GREAT. i know 9k isn't a lot for a system compared to the apogee but i'm pretty sure there's a setup that is at least better than what i have currently.

again these products that i list are just in my mind for right now.

[patpong]

First of all, you should know what is your main music preference... what type of music you like that most....??? very important. If you like rock, Jazz, then, you need bass, then you should stay away from tubes, planar speaker. Cone speakers and solid-state is for you. But, if you like classical, like vocal music, tubes and planar speaker will give you much more clearity and really sharp focus. Even a ten of thousands of dollars cone speakers, like the Wilson Grand slam wouldn't give equal clearity in top octive sounding or the violin sound as a mid price planar speakers like the Martin Logan or Magnapan...

[paul_pci]

If you're budget is really that much, i'd think that the B&W 604s would be too entry level for you and you should at least audition the 700 line, if not consider other speaker lines as well such as Dynaudio, Vienna Acoustics, Sonus Faber, Paradigm Signature line, etc. As for components, you could look into Arcam, Bell Canto, Classe, Krell, and other high end gear.

[michaeljr6]

First of all, you should know what is your main music preference... what type of music you like that most....??? very important. If you like rock, Jazz, then, you need bass, then you should stay away from tubes, planar speaker. Cone speakers and solid-state is for you. But, if you like classical, like vocal music, tubes and planar speaker will give you much more clearity and really sharp focus. Even a ten of thousands of dollars cone speakers, like the Wilson Grand slam wouldn't give equal clearity in top octive sounding or the violin sound as a mid price planar speakers like the Martin Logan or Magnapan...

wow that's a very knowlegable post there. i didn't know the difference the cone and the planar. but now i know! i'm still new to this. but i will will go around and research before maing any big purchase. btw i like your planar speakers in your avatar

[drseid]

i've listen to them with almost the same setup minus the speakers. the speakers that were played on there were a pair of Martin Logan's. which was very nice to listen too. i'm not sure about the B&W being on par with martin logan. but should i choose a different set of speakers?

you are correct about the B&W series i just got them mixed up. well my budget is around $9K and if you guys could help me choose a product that would be great sounding around the price that would be GREAT. i know 9k isn't a lot for a system compared to the apogee but i'm pretty sure there's a setup that is at least better than what i have currently.

again these products that i list are just in my mind for right now.

Is your budget 9K for the speakers alone? If so, then there are all kinds of options open to you... As a matter of fact, if you liked the MLs, they are definitely one of them as they have several models in your price range. I will recommend some other brands, but keep in mind my own preferences... I don't care much for MLs or B&W speakers as a general rule, so the brands I mention below may not match with your own preferences...

New, I would look at Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature System (5K/pr. -- I bought these -- top to bottom excellent performers with a slight warm bias... vocals sound amazing (but not quite as clear as the Merlins), fast as all get out, with *very* low bass capabilities that are not boomy at all, non-fatiguing natural highs), Merlin VSM-MM (9K/pr. -- very nice for a small to medium sized room for vocals and resolution, but bass is not as deep or powerful as the Tylers and some others in the range), Dali Helicon 400s (6K or so a pr. -- beautiful looking speakers that are good all-around performers but a bit pricey for what you get, IMO), Legacy Focus 20/20 (9K/pr. -- excellent rock speaker -- lacks the resolution and speed of the others mentioned, but just "works" when you are listening to music that has a lot of low bass energy like many rock tracks). Ayon Butterflies (5.5K/pr.) -- excellent speaker from 35hz and up with tremendous balance, but the last octave was lacking *a bit* however when compared to the others with the exception of the Merlins.

Used, I would add my favorite speaker under 20K new -- the McIntosh XRT-28s (9K/pr used)... Lots of drivers in tall arrays combine brilliantly for vocals that are amazing, and a soundfield that is truly awe inspiring. Low bass extension to 18Hz is about as much as anyone could ever need for music (if not more than enough). Bass integrates extremely well with the rest of the speaker... Note: these speakers demand *power* -- your amp has plenty of it, but I would make sure it is a good match with these before commiting to a purchase -- works best with McIntosh solid state monos.

Von Schweikert DB99s... (6K/pr, used) -- about as good as the Tylers with a very similar overall sound, but does not require higher power amplification as they are 99db efficient. These actually are a perfect match with reasonablly priced Opera Audio Consonance Tube amplification and CD players (this is how I heard them demoed, BTW). I loved these.

---Dave

[Bernd]

First of all, you should know what is your main music preference... what type of music you like that most....??? very important. If you like rock, Jazz, then, you need bass, then you should stay away from tubes, planar speaker.

It is wrong advice to generalise. I have an all tube amp. Plenty of Bass.No complaints.

Hi michaeljr6,

$9K is a pretty good budget to start you off.I am sure you will get plenty of advice and your short list will turn into a long list.
I would prioritise and maybe start off with just an amp, speakers and one source. I think if you spent your budget wisely on these items you will get better quality and you can at a later date, if you want to, add another source, etc. etc.
Your choice of music will play a part in your selection, but I believe a good piece of Audio Equipment should handle everything competently.

Have fun

Bernd

[Florian]

Well planars can have tons of bass, just depends on the driving electronics and the room
Also as not many know there are electrostatics, planar magnetics, ribbons, hybrids ---they are all quite different and require different rooms and electronics. But all share the trait of not having a box and requiring a big room or good room acoustics.

So here are some pointers for Equipment and Speakers.


Electronics

GamuT
Wadia
Pathos
Unison Research
YBA
Krell
Mark Levinson
Goldmund
Sphinx (very rare)
Speed Spectrum Technologies
Manley
Audio Research
Conrad Johnson

Speakers

Apogee Acoustics (buy any used, restore)
Magnepan (3.6 and up have good (quantity) of bass)
Avalon
Kharma
Genesis
Soundlab
ART (i trust Bernd's ear)
VMPS (RM30, 40 only with MLS Cabinets)
Ayon
Martin Sound Systems
Martin Logan
Infinity RS 4.5, IRS Series
Alon
Final (Swiss)
Tannoy
Meridian
Jadis

Cables

Magnan (my dream)
Siltech
Audioquest
Cardas

Power filters

PS Audio....nuff said

Room Acoustics

Tact (active elements)
Fast Audio ( passive elements)
R-T-F-S ( passive elements)
Behringer (active elements)
DIY ( passive elements)
DEQX (active elements)

Have a look and tell us what you like most or whats most appealing to you and we can give you some pointers on matching electronics

[matt39]

You know I kind of like Bernd's suggestion to keep it simple. Since you already have an interest in Odyssey Stratos why not pair it with the Tempest preamp? They ought to work well together. As an alternative to the B&W speakers I would suggest Dynaudio. Their floorstanders, even their introductory Audience series, ought to play loud and well. Think Audience 82 or maybe something in the new Focus series. For a source I'd recommend a Music Hall cd25.2, Audio Refinement Complete or the Jolida JD100A. With some sensible, but good, cables from companies like Signal, Blue Jean, Cobalt or Zebra Cable you should have a good looking, good sounding system which comes in well within your budget. I would do a lot of listening and maybe some more research at a site like Audioholics which has some good, sensible articles on auditioning, choosing and buying equipment and accessories. Remember too that our suggestions and opinions are, in the end, only guidelines. It is your own impressions of the equipment which really count. Hope this helps a little and have fun!
Gary

[michaeljr6]

Is your budget 9K for the speakers alone? If so, then there are all kinds of options open to you... As a matter of fact, if you liked the MLs, they are definitely one of them as they have several models in your price range. I will recommend some other brands, but keep in mind my own preferences... I don't care much for MLs or B&W speakers as a general rule, so the brands I mention below may not match with your own preferences...

New, I would look at Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature System (5K/pr. -- I bought these -- top to bottom excellent performers with a slight warm bias... vocals sound amazing (but not quite as clear as the Merlins), fast as all get out, with *very* low bass capabilities that are not boomy at all, non-fatiguing natural highs), Merlin VSM-MM (9K/pr. -- very nice for a small to medium sized room for vocals and resolution, but bass is not as deep or powerful as the Tylers and some others in the range), Dali Helicon 400s (6K or so a pr. -- beautiful looking speakers that are good all-around performers but a bit pricey for what you get, IMO), Legacy Focus 20/20 (9K/pr. -- excellent rock speaker -- lacks the resolution and speed of the others mentioned, but just "works" when you are listening to music that has a lot of low bass energy like many rock tracks). Ayon Butterflies (5.5K/pr.) -- excellent speaker from 35hz and up with tremendous balance, but the last octave was lacking *a bit* however when compared to the others with the exception of the Merlins.

Used, I would add my favorite speaker under 20K new -- the McIntosh XRT-28s (9K/pr used)... Lots of drivers in tall arrays combine brilliantly for vocals that are amazing, and a soundfield that is truly awe inspiring. Low bass extension to 18Hz is about as much as anyone could ever need for music (if not more than enough). Bass integrates extremely well with the rest of the speaker... Note: these speakers demand *power* -- your amp has plenty of it, but I would make sure it is a good match with these before commiting to a purchase -- works best with McIntosh solid state monos.

Von Schweikert DB99s... (6K/pr, used) -- about as good as the Tylers with a very similar overall sound, but does not require higher power amplification as they are 99db efficient. These actually are a perfect match with reasonablly priced Opera Audio Consonance Tube amplification and CD players (this is how I heard them demoed, BTW). I loved these.

---Dave

unfortunately i don't have 9K just for speakers, if i did i would be very happy to get the selection that you posted. there are soo many speakers out there it's ridiculous, but it seems you know how to select them. when i finally decide on the speakers i will come talk to you for more advice thanks

[michaeljr6]

It is wrong advice to generalise. I have an all tube amp. Plenty of Bass.No complaints.

Hi michaeljr6,

$9K is a pretty good budget to start you off.I am sure you will get plenty of advice and your short list will turn into a long list.
I would prioritise and maybe start off with just an amp, speakers and one source. I think if you spent your budget wisely on these items you will get better quality and you can at a later date, if you want to, add another source, etc. etc.
Your choice of music will play a part in your selection, but I believe a good piece of Audio Equipment should handle everything competently.

Have fun

Bernd

i agree with everything you said, i plan to follow your advice while building my system!

[michaeljr6]

Well planars can have tons of bass, just depends on the driving electronics and the room
Also as not many know there are electrostatics, planar magnetics, ribbons, hybrids ---they are all quite different and require different rooms and electronics. But all share the trait of not having a box and requiring a big room or good room acoustics.

So here are some pointers for Equipment and Speakers.


Electronics

GamuT
Wadia
Pathos
Unison Research
YBA
Krell
Mark Levinson
Goldmund
Sphinx (very rare)
Speed Spectrum Technologies
Manley
Audio Research
Conrad Johnson

Speakers

Apogee Acoustics (buy any used, restore)
Magnepan (3.6 and up have good (quantity) of bass)
Avalon
Kharma
Genesis
Soundlab
ART (i trust Bernd's ear)
VMPS (RM30, 40 only with MLS Cabinets)
Ayon
Martin Sound Systems
Martin Logan
Infinity RS 4.5, IRS Series
Alon
Final (Swiss)
Tannoy
Meridian
Jadis

Cables

Magnan (my dream)
Siltech
Audioquest
Cardas

Power filters

PS Audio....nuff said

Room Acoustics

Tact (active elements)
Fast Audio ( passive elements)
R-T-F-S ( passive elements)
Behringer (active elements)
DIY ( passive elements)
DEQX (active elements)

Have a look and tell us what you like most or whats most appealing to you and we can give you some pointers on matching electronics

good god! that's quite a list. i love your setup that you have there...must be orgasmic to the ears. i like the brands that you list up there. some of the brands there i've never heard of, which means i have not yet done enough research
thanks florian

[michaeljr6]

You know I kind of like Bernd's suggestion to keep it simple. Since you already have an interest in Odyssey Stratos why not pair it with the Tempest preamp? They ought to work well together. As an alternative to the B&W speakers I would suggest Dynaudio. Their floorstanders, even their introductory Audience series, ought to play loud and well. Think Audience 82 or maybe something in the new Focus series. For a source I'd recommend a Music Hall cd25.2, Audio Refinement Complete or the Jolida JD100A. With some sensible, but good, cables from companies like Signal, Blue Jean, Cobalt or Zebra Cable you should have a good looking, good sounding system which comes in well within your budget. I would do a lot of listening and maybe some more research at a site like Audioholics which has some good, sensible articles on auditioning, choosing and buying equipment and accessories. Remember too that our suggestions and opinions are, in the end, only guidelines. It is your own impressions of the equipment which really count. Hope this helps a little and have fun!
Gary

i will look into the preamp as well as the speakers that you mentioned. i didn't know cables were that much effective. i guess i will have to raise my limit to 10k hehe. i didn't know this would be this much fun yet costly. i will now for sure won't leave the house once i complete it. i'm hoping to build this system next month. hopfully by june or july i will have everything done. and pics will come!

[GMichael]

i will look into the preamp as well as the speakers that you mentioned. i didn't know cables were that much effective. i guess i will have to raise my limit to 10k hehe. i didn't know this would be this much fun yet costly. i will now for sure won't leave the house once i complete it. i'm hoping to build this system next month. hopfully by june or july i will have everything done. and pics will come!

I am so jealous right now!

[Florian]

good god! that's quite a list. i love your setup that you have there...must be orgasmic to the ears. i like the brands that you list up there. some of the brands there i've never heard of, which means i have not yet done enough research
thanks florian

Thanks! It took a lot of work too.

Glad you enjoy the list, there is only wonderfull stuff on there!


:-)

[JoeE SP9]

Whatever you buy do some listening first. If there are any audiophiles near where you live listen to their systems. Go to some high end dealers and listen to what they have. Above all, listen first, open wallet second. With a $10,000 budget you should end up with some very good sound. Although there are different camps as to speaker types you need to listen and decide for yourself if it will be planars or boxes. Florian, EStat and myself would never have anything but planars but we are not the only ones out here. Remember, your ears are the only ones you have to please.

[Bernd]

i agree with everything you said, i plan to follow your advice while building my system!

Thanks michaeljr6,

Well you've received lot's of decent advice here. Now, my friend, it's up to you. You will have to put the time and the legwork in. But believe me, that the more you put in, the more you will be rewarded and on top of that you will gain knowledge on how different equipment can sound to each other. Also, the full $9K don't need to be looked at as a target. Sometimes you can get great performance for less outlay.
It's hard to advice somebody on what to buy as it's only you who knows what you like. If that budget would be mine and I wanted to start a system these would be my choices to audition:

Amp:
Pathos Classic One
Sugden A21
Unison Research Unico or S6

CD (I take it that this will be your first source, as vinyl opens a different can of worms):
Ayre C-X7e
Marantz SA-17SI
Exposure 3010
Rega Jupiter

Speakers ( that's tough, the ones in my list will work with the amps.rec.):
Zingali Overture1
Revolver R45
Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor
but try and search out the ART Stiletto

Also don't forget some of your budget for Equipment support, cabling and at least some sort of room acoustic treatment..


If you feel that I can be of any help to you, you are welcome to contact me.

Have fun and I am looking forward to read about your progress.

Peace

Bernd