No picture with Denon AVR 4306 HDMI switching

[mille162]

I'm hoping I've made a misake somewhere, but it's looking less and less likely. I've got Comcast's Motorola HD DVR (model # DCT6412 III). Using HDMI from box to 4306 in and HDMI from 4306 out to Toshiba TV (34HF85). I'm getting audio but no video...screen flickers from solid green to purple to black and back again.

I've tried DVR directly to TV and picture is fine. It's outputting 1080i.

TV shows 4306's onscreen menu and DVD (also hooked up via HDMI).

I've tried switching HDMI inputs and reassigning them with no changes.

I've tried every possible combination of input signal setting and output setting, none make a difference.

Componet from DVR to 4306 (and HDMI to TV) works fine.

After 45 min on the phone with Comcast technician, they feel the only possible cause is the Denon is somehow NOT HDCP compliant and there's nothing that can be done to fix this. I'm stuck with going back to componet cables to get picture, or sending video direct to the TV.

I bought the 4306 for the simplicity of video switching and HDMI compatibility, did I waste my money or does anyone have an idea of what I might be doing wrong?

I can list all the exact settings/OSD readings if that will help determine the problem (but based on the owners manual, I'm 99% sure I have it all set right).

TIA

[Mr Peabody]

I don't have your answer but I do have a comment and a question. I have the Moxi DVR HD cable box from Charter which is made by Motorola/Digeo and the digital outputs wouldn't give me audio from either optical or coaxial. This is not HDMI but bare with me. After a long fued with the idiots at the cable company and contacting Motorola directly who was no help, I finally contacted Primare, the manufacturer of my processor, and they were aware that the processor had a compatibility problem with the Motorola boxes. My processor previously worked with a Dishnet receiver just fine and no problems with my DVD player digital out. Primare said their digital inputs were calibrated for a good digital signal, insinuating that Motorola some how has a sloppy digital feed. They said they had a fix and told me to send my processor in. They said they had to lower the tolerances on the digital input. I don't know if that's what really was going on but when I got the processor back it then did work with the Moxi. So I would lean heavily toward your problem being compatibility between the Denon and the box. I recommend contacting Denon's tech support.

When I bought my HDTV and a new DVD player with the latest rage HDMI about a year or so ago I became a man on a mission, fighting windmills, because HDMI was not what it was said to be. I was shocked to learn that at the time no TV or DVD player output 5.1 from the HDMI out. Oh yeah, it was digital audio but only 2 channel (2.0). HDMI was nothing more than a digital version of a F connector. So my question is does your cable box output 5.1 through the cable box or your DVD player?

Another thought I had was the cables but surely if one worked with the TV it should work with the receiver.

I feel for you, I've been there. All I can say is be persistent.

[mille162]

I spoke with Comcast at length again. They claim the problem is with Denon's HDCP capabilities. They have only 1 brand (Motorola) and 1 model HD DVR (DCT6412 III), at least in my region (Philadelphia)

I spoke with two local high-end shops that sell the 4306. Both have had problems, the one shop I spoke with for about 30 min and they've had same problem with (2) 4306's and a 4806. 2 customers were using Comcast's HD DVR, 1 was using Direct TV. Their research pointed to a problem with the DENONs and they said they were told a firmware update would be out in a few months. Their solution is to go back to componet and optical inputs for the DVR

I got ahold of DENON/Marantz tech support. They claim they'd had several customers call in with same problem, all using either the Motorola or Scientific Atlanta DVR's. DENON's position is they are 100% HDCP/HDMI compliant and in their tests, the other manuf's equipment was the problem. They are doing nothing to correct any problems and they suggest just waiting until an update comes out from Comcast. They tech said a SA update is due in March for known HDCP issues, but no word on Motorola.

I've got a family member at Motorola tracking down a contact person there to follow-up on the problems and a date for a possible solution.

What I don't understand is, if the DVR works fine with the TV, why wouldn't the HDCP issue be in the DENON...the picture only disappears when the DENON is in the loop so wouldn't this be the most likely cause of the problem? I have a rought idea of how the HDCP works, but if there's an issue with the DVR's HDCP, wouldn't I also have display issues when connected to TV via HDMI?

Thanks again

[edtyct]

The Denon and the Motorola might be having trouble shaking hands (recogmizing each other) despite their HDCP compliance. Unfortunately, it happens. Can you run down to Circuit City and grab a DVD player or two with HDMI outputs, give them a try through the Denon, and then return them? Then you could see whether something is amiss with the receiver's ability to accept HDMI video. If the DVD players work through it, the Motorola is just a bad match at this point.

[mille162]

I've got one DVD through HDMI already working, tried a different brand as well when trouble shooting and it worked fine.

I'll post Motorola's response when I get an answer from them. Guess it's back to the store for a set of new componet cables in the meantime

[mille162]

Got the confirmation from Motorola that the problem lies in their DVR. They recognize that their HDMI output does not supoort HDMI repeater functionality yet (but they're working on it). A firmware update will be out in the "near future". I'll post again when I find out it's available.

Thanks again for the suggestions

[spudly]

Got the confirmation from Motorola that the problem lies in their DVR. They recognize that their HDMI output does not supoort HDMI repeater functionality yet (but they're working on it). A firmware update will be out in the "near future". I'll post again when I find out it's available.

Thanks again for the suggestions

Just an FYI, I have the exact same problem. All of my equipment is different with the exception of the DCT6412 phase III from Comcast.

Now I need to figure out how to get the firmware updated.

Thanks for your work in tracking this down as you just saved me from beating my head against the TV for a few hours.

[ryanbest]

I just received the DCT6412 III today and have the same problem. HDMI works fine directly to my Panasonic AE900 projector but through my JVC RX-D402 has the same flashing issue. Audio passes through HDMI fine. I also have an upconverting DVD player through HDMI that works fine through the RX-D402.

Let me know when you find out more about a firmware upgrade as I would rather use HDMI over component. Thanks!

[Mr Peabody]

Has anyone paid any attention to what audio mode your receiver goes into when the HDMI audio is on? At one point no DVD players were outputting 5.1 out of the HDMI. I'd be interested to know if that has changed and it also may be something you would want to pay attention to before putting a lot of effort into using it. If you only receive Dolby 2 channel the best surround you will get is PL2. About a year or so I looked into HDMI and found it was much to do about nothing.

[mille162]

My Toshiba SD-4980 DVD is outputting 5.1 DD through the HDMI. Denon AVR 4306 is receiving and processing audio signal with no problems (just not getting the picture to pass along).

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks.

Do any of your TV's have a digital audio output? My Sony does but I'm not sure how common it is. If so, you could go to the TV with the HDMI and just run the digital audio to the receiver.

I personally hope the industry keeps supporting component. I just do video switching with the TV. I figure the video don't need another component, like a receiver, in the path.

[ryanbest]

I'm getting 5.1 through HDMI from my DVD player as well. It's nice having just 1 cable.

I have a projector so no digital audio output (and I wouldn't want to run it that far). If you have your TV any distance away from your components it's nice to run just 1 cable and switch from the receiver. Otherwise I would need 2 25' HDMI cables and a projector or TV that had 2 HDMI inputs (and deal with having to switch the receiver for audio and the tv separately for video).

One benefit to the newer receivers with HDMI switching is they are upconverting signals under 480p to 480p (or higher). So if I send S-Video or Composite (oh the horror) then it'll get upconverted to 480p and sends the signal through HDMI (very handy with a projector). I found setting my DCT6412 to output 480i instead of 480p for non HD prodcasts produces a better picture. My receiver seems to upconvert SD material better.

[writemikep]

If I run my DCT6412 III using component video, I lose my HD channels for some reason. And even if they work, I get vertically squished images on the HD channels.

However, I don't want to use component with the settop box - I want to use my digital connections (which, with a direct connection bt my EDTV and settop, looks great). I hate that the fear of piracy is crippling our ability to do normal switching (like between my settop and my DVD player).

My setup is simple: two HDMI output devices (settop and dvd player), one HDMI/DVI-D (w HDCP, thanks for asking) input device (my EDTV), all connected (for the moment!) with a JVC RX-D402B receiver. The fact that the electronic manufacturers all just shrug their shoulders and point fingers is crap. "Fix your sh*t", as our Q/A guy says.

Is there some way I can blame Sony for this snafu? LOL.

[edtyct]

Curious: If your display and receiver have one HDMI input apiece and you have two HDMI devices, how can you connect both at the same time via HDMI? If you're relying on HDMI upconversion of an analog input on the receiver as a digital source, remember that your connection in that respect is only as good as its weakest link.

As for the STB's HD problem with component, if you're going through the JVC, it might not have sufficient bandwidth for an HD signal, though I must admit that I'd be more inclined to blame the STB if the receiver is fairly up to date.

No, you can't blame Sony, even though it had a big hand in writing the HDMI specs. Does it really baffle anyone that a multitude of A/V companies all with their own agendas can't get underneath one umbrella quickly and easily? It's a wonder that they can adopt any single standard, let alone adopt it gracefully.

[writemikep]

My receiver has two HDMI inputs and one HDMI output. So the cable box and the DVD player hook into the inputs, and the output goes to my EDTV. It's such a simple setup, and yet it doesn't work. Sigh.

[writemikep]

Well, I'm now running my DCT6412 III set top and my DVD player directly to inputs on my Panasonic TH-42PWD6 plasma tv. Fortunately, my Harmony remote (which is the BEST!!! if you don't have one), can switch between the inputs (the remote for my plasma just rotates thru the inputs every time you hit the Input button, so I was worried the Harmony wouldn't be able to specify which input went with each device, but it can).

So I'm returning my JVC RX-D402B to Best Buy (I'm within the 30 day return period), and just using an older Panasonic A/V receiver to switch my audio. The whole set up works great.

Got a response back from Motorola, confiming the firmware has to be upgraded in the DCT6412 III for HDMI repeater to work properly when routing thru a receiver. But I'm not going to spend money on a new HDMI switching A/V receiver if my remote can manage switching directly between my plasma's inputs (I have two digital inputs on my plasma, a DVI-D and an HDMI, so the video quality is fine).

I did notice a substantial decrease in video quality when I tried to use the component outputs from the cable box, as well as when I set the cable resolution to anything other than my plasma's native resolution (EDTV - 480p) when using the HDMI output. But with my current set top settings (tv size=16:9, output resolution=480p, 4:3 override=480p), the picture quality is incredible.

At least everything works now.

[Bonofied Suitor]

Your post has me worried. I was just about to drop the dime on the order of my new Denon AVR4306. I was wondering if anyone out there has one hooked up to a DirecTV H10-250 high definition DVR and a Samsung DLP TV (mine is a HL-R6768W). I want a new reciever mostly because of the HDMI switching and the updated audio options and 7.1

Switching the audio source on the receiver everytime I change the video source on the TV is getting to be a real pain but I don't want to have any problems. If there is someone out there with a HDMI switching reciever that works with the Samsung and HD DVR from Direct TV let me know what you have. I love my current Denon but I'm open to looking at other brands.

I spoke to Denon and they said the unit would pass all but 1080P signals but any user help would be appreciated.

Jeff

[mille162]

Regarding the Denon 4306 passing along only 1080i signals and not 1080p signals...can anyone offer a quick explanation why they would stop at 1080i? I also noticed that the Denon DVD players are capable of 1080i max and not 1080p, I'm sure there must be a good reason and not just typical marketing planning that it'll be offered on a new model 2 years from now so we're all faced with the "option" of upgrading again!

[edtyct]

A good reason? It depends on who you ask. For one thing, 1080p wasn't part of the HDCP standard. For another, no 1080p content has been available, and scaling to 1080p from an external processor was a relative rarity and not a particularly motivating factor for mainstream manufacturers. For one more, why offer 1080p at this point when you can offer it down the line and make at least one segment of the buying population contemplate upgrading?

Ed

[Donna6985]

Does anyone know whether or not the issue with the AVR4306 and Motorola DVR cable boxes using HDMI has been resolved yet? I am just starting to put together a home entertainment system. I just recently purchased a Sony 52" XBR3 and was looking at this receiver. I want to be able to run HDMI from the cable box through the receiver. Is it possible with this receiver yet? As far as the software/firmware update goes - what exactly would I need to ask the cable company? I'm pretty new at this.

One other question regarding the internet radio interface. My computer and DSL router are not in the same location as the home theater system will be. Is there a way to connect the internet radio - it can't be wireless correct?

Any help you can give on either of these questions will be greatly appreciated.

[mille162]

Comcast did a flash last month (found out because all of a sudden, the buttons on my remote didn't work, they screwed it up and te "my dvr" button would take you somewhere else). Called tech support to get details and they said they had no idea about the HDMI protocal and issues with passthrough. I'll try swapping cables this weekend to see if it works now. The problem isn't the receiver, the problem is the cable box. The digital signal carries an authentication code (designed to keep people from illeagely broadcasting/copying). It says if it's ok to show the signal and if it's ok to pass the signal along to another device. Basically the DVR was saying it's not ok to pass the signal along so you're only get sound, no video. Note that this is only on the HDMI interface.


As far as the wireless, I wonder if a USB wireless plug would work for you? I haven't really played with that feature so I can't say, but the hardware is cheap enough to give it a try. Let us know how you make out.

[Donna6985]

So the problem has not been corrected? I have a Motorola DCT6412 III through Service Electric Cable. So basically in order to go through the receiver I would have to use component cables and lose the 1080p? The receiver is irrelevant to this problem? Is there supposed to be a fix for the cable box ever?

[Donna6985]

Sorry - I'm really new at this and trying to decide whether or not it is now worth purchasing a new receiver at this time if I can't run the tv through it using HDMI. I have an older dvd player so it doesn't have HDMI capabilities. I have a PS3 that I can use as a dvd. Would it be better to connect the tv (Sony 52" XBR3) directly to the cable box using HDMI and then use the PS3 HDMI through the receiver for viewing DVDs and having the surround only for the DVDs or connect the tv with component cables through the receiver?

[westcott]

As edtyct pointed out, very diplomatically, it is the Motorolla. Not handshake friendly, and the Denons seems to not like this at all. Its not the Denon.

[Groundbeef]

Your post has me worried. I was just about to drop the dime on the order of my new Denon AVR4306. I was wondering if anyone out there has one hooked up to a DirecTV H10-250 high definition DVR and a Samsung DLP TV (mine is a HL-R6768W). I want a new reciever mostly because of the HDMI switching and the updated audio options and 7.1

Switching the audio source on the receiver everytime I change the video source on the TV is getting to be a real pain but I don't want to have any problems. If there is someone out there with a HDMI switching reciever that works with the Samsung and HD DVR from Direct TV let me know what you have. I love my current Denon but I'm open to looking at other brands.

I spoke to Denon and they said the unit would pass all but 1080P signals but any user help would be appreciated.

Jeff

Be careful with the H-10 series from DirecTV. When local HD channels rollout (in Vegas I would think it should be pretty soon) the H-10 won't handle them. You need the H-20 and the 5LNB reciever. Its a bit more oblong than the old 3LNB sat dish that is currently in your yard and roof.

If your lucky you can get DirecTV to swap them out for free, if not your going to have to buy one. If you have their "protection" policy, you will have much more luck getting it replaced.