rp tv 9" vrs 7" crt big difference

[lomarica]

are there any rear projection tv's with 9" crt's available? I remember reading how much better the picture is with 9" crt's vrs 7". Is this still the case or am I better of going dlp etc...

The depth and weight of the tv are not relevant for my setup. Also does the 1080i vrs 1080p issue apply to my case, ie will a 9" crt with 1080i be better than a 7" crt with 1080p

maybe there is a 9"crt with 1080p?

thanks

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

There is a big difference between 7" and 9" CRT's. 7" cannot deliver full high definition images, but the 9" CRT's can. My television can accept a 1080P signal via my AV switcher through its HDMI inputs, but I do not know of any other 9" CRT's that can. 1080i is usually the native resolution for most 9" CRT's. I highly recommend the Toshiba 65h84 if you can find one, but there are others out there that are also excellent. In most camps CRT's still rule the roost when It comes to picture quality.

[lomarica]

thanks for the quick repy ok that is what I thought and the 65 inch widescreen is exactly that I am after I will check out the Toshiba. do you know any of the other models numbers to check out?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Check out Hitachi. They seem to get excellent reviews. Mitsubishi's always seem to have bluish blacks after calibration, so I cannot recommend them. Since so many manufacturers are moving away from them, I cannot think if anyone else that offers them.

[bigal1142]

I also have a Toshiba 65H84 HDTV. But the picture seems to be dimming on me. The quality of the picture is fine. It just dims… Also, when I fire it up(turn it on) I get vertical lines on the picture. But they go away after 2-5 mins. any thoughts????

Sir Terrence the Terrible
I see you have a “custom 9” tube”. Is this some upgrade you did yourself or had done? Is it EZ/Hard, cheap/pricey???? Sorry for the 20 ??? but I really like my TV and don’t want to sell it for cheap when these issues I’m having can be resolved. Any help or info would be deeply appreciated.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I also have a Toshiba 65H84 HDTV. But the picture seems to be dimming on me. The quality of the picture is fine. It just dims… Also, when I fire it up(turn it on) I get vertical lines on the picture. But they go away after 2-5 mins. any thoughts????

It is time for your tube lenses to be cleaned. I would highly recommend that you get an ISF certified technician to clean your lenses. I do not recommend doing this yourself unless you know exactly what you are doing. That technician should also be able to address the vertical lines in your picture as well. Picture dimming is a sure sign that the lenses have dirt on them.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
I see you have a “custom 9” tube”. Is this some upgrade you did yourself or had done? Is it EZ/Hard, cheap/pricey???? Sorry for the 20 ??? but I really like my TV and don’t want to sell it for cheap when these issues I’m having can be resolved. Any help or info would be deeply appreciated.

I had this upgrade done, and it is expensive. The expensive part was the tubes themselves, as they had to be custom made to fit into the television. Also the process entails removing all of the internal processing, upgrading the HDMI repeater to a module based system(makes upgrades easier), and moving that processing to an outboard video processor(also a module based system). I also had a better screen added (a Da lite screen). The upgrade turned the television into just a monitor with no speakers or internal processing except a high resolution D/A converter.

[pixelthis]

I also have a Toshiba 65H84 HDTV. But the picture seems to be dimming on me. The quality of the picture is fine. It just dims… Also, when I fire it up(turn it on) I get vertical lines on the picture. But they go away after 2-5 mins. any thoughts????

Sir Terrence the Terrible
I see you have a “custom 9” tube”. Is this some upgrade you did yourself or had done? Is it EZ/Hard, cheap/pricey???? Sorry for the 20 ??? but I really like my TV and don’t want to sell it for cheap when these issues I’m having can be resolved. Any help or info would be deeply appreciated.

Anybody on this board knows about my absolute hatred for all things Toshiba.
Their stuff has the life span of a fruitfly, basically.
Maybe people will learn, after reading about all of the problems with their stuff on this site.
AS for any kind of "crt" display, well what can I say?


CRT IS DEAD

[pixelthis]

I also have a Toshiba 65H84 HDTV. But the picture seems to be dimming on me. The quality of the picture is fine. It just dims… Also, when I fire it up(turn it on) I get vertical lines on the picture. But they go away after 2-5 mins. any thoughts????

Sir Terrence the Terrible
I see you have a “custom 9” tube”. Is this some upgrade you did yourself or had done? Is it EZ/Hard, cheap/pricey???? Sorry for the 20 ??? but I really like my TV and don’t want to sell it for cheap when these issues I’m having can be resolved. Any help or info would be deeply appreciated.

Anybody on this board knows about my absolute hatred for all things Toshiba.
Their stuff has the life span of a fruitfly, basically.
Maybe people will learn, after reading about all of the problems with their stuff on this site.
AS for any kind of "crt" display, well what can I say?


CRT IS DEAD

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Pixel,
This gentleman is looking for help, not your opinion. You need to learn when to contribute to help, and when to contribute your opinion.

Nobody cares whether you like CRT's or not, that question wasn't asked. Nobody cares if you dislike Toshiba, nobody asked what you liked.

Who cares what you hate!

[pixelthis]

Pixel,
This gentleman is looking for help, not your opinion. You need to learn when to contribute to help, and when to contribute your opinion.

Nobody cares whether you like CRT's or not, that question wasn't asked. Nobody cares if you dislike Toshiba, nobody asked what you liked.

Who cares what you hate!

Its not a question of what I hate, its a question of when CRT lovers are going to give up
their horse and buggies and enter the 21st century, all I AM SAYING.
And I am not saying I hate these antiques, that is your interpetation.
I am merely stating the obvious, that they are
DEAD
Tech that has been superceded by better.
AND any discussion of them is like arguing about how many angels are on the head of a pin, all I am saying.
Any delusional person persisting in using this obsolete tech should be gently directed toward a decent DLP projector, a three chip model, preferably.
SORRY IF i came on too strong.
CRT is ...
DEAD!!
Better?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Its not a question of what I hate, its a question of when CRT lovers are going to give up
their horse and buggies and enter the 21st century, all I AM SAYING.

If they never do it, is it any of your business? Some folks like the natural looking picture a RPTV can deliver, and they may not want to part with it any time soon.

And I am not saying I hate these antiques, that is your interpetation.
I am merely stating the obvious, that they are
DEAD

With 400+ million sets still in use worldwide, It is hardly dead. There are not 400+ million flat panels in the field yet.

Tech that has been superceded by better.

Better what? More WAF friendly? It seems to me we traded convience for performance. There are not that many flat panels that can routinely do 50,000:1 contrast performance. Not many that can acheive the black levels, proper color rendition and balance, and keep in mind, all the bluray movies you view are still QC by professional CRT monitors that are tube based.

AND any discussion of them is like arguing about how many angels are on the head of a pin, all I am saying.

Who cares what you have to say, nobody asked for your opinion, they asked for your help.

Any delusional person persisting in using this obsolete tech should be gently directed toward a decent DLP projector, a three chip model, preferably.
SORRY IF i came on too strong.
CRT is ...
DEAD!!
Better?

CRT's are dead when nobody uses them anymore (and they still do), when they stop making them(and they still do) and when demand for them is zero(not the case yet)

A DLP projector still has quite a long way before acheiving the contrast ratios, and color accuracy of a CRT. But if you want to consider something dead before it actually dies, maybe a self proclamation might be in order. LOL Keep in mind, you have been using an outdated receiver for years, did it stop you from enjoying what you were watching?

[pixelthis]

If they never do it, is it any of your business? Some folks like the natural looking picture a RPTV can deliver, and they may not want to part with it any time soon.




With 400+ million sets still in use worldwide, It is hardly dead. There are not 400+ million flat panels in the field yet.




Better what? More WAF friendly? It seems to me we traded convience for performance. There are not that many flat panels that can routinely do 50,000:1 contrast performance. Not many that can acheive the black levels, proper color rendition and balance, and keep in mind, all the bluray movies you view are still QC by professional CRT monitors that are tube based.



Who cares what you have to say, nobody asked for your opinion, they asked for your help.




CRT's are dead when nobody uses them anymore (and they still do), when they stop making them(and they still do) and when demand for them is zero(not the case yet)

A DLP projector still has quite a long way before acheiving the contrast ratios, and color accuracy of a CRT. But if you want to consider something dead before it actually dies, maybe a self proclamation might be in order. LOL Keep in mind, you have been using an outdated receiver for years, did it stop you from enjoying what you were watching?

CRT is dead when nobody makes them anymore.
PEOPLE USING something that is obsolete and hardly made anymore is kinda like
the dino brain kicking the hind leg while T-REX enjoys his meal.
But everybodies gotta have a hobby...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

CRT is dead when nobody makes them anymore.

Then you are a bit premature, they are still being made.

PEOPLE USING something that is obsolete and hardly made anymore is kinda like
the dino brain kicking the hind leg while T-REX enjoys his meal.
But everybodies gotta have a hobby...

You say this, and for years you used an obsolete receiver. Oh brother........

[pixelthis]

Then you are a bit premature, they are still being made.




You say this, and for years you used an obsolete receiver. Oh brother........

And theres' a big difference between making something obsolete work because of
cash flow problems and keeping obsolete tech for some delusional reason.
Nothing wrong with all of the tube amp, phonograph, etc types who insist on
playing with tech that is totally obsolete, people still ride horses.
Just that a modern DLP set, especially a three chip model, has really rendered
CRT totally useless.
If you want to help this guy(and I beleive he was looking for advice) you would tell him to stop wasting his time on somethjing obsolete and go with something better, funds permitting.
As for the "obsolete" receiver, it was just a priority, trying to get the best screen available, chasing the new tech that is constantly improving monitors.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

And theres' a big difference between making something obsolete work because of
cash flow problems and keeping obsolete tech for some delusional reason.
Nothing wrong with all of the tube amp, phonograph, etc types who insist on
playing with tech that is totally obsolete, people still ride horses.
Just that a modern DLP set, especially a three chip model, has really rendered
CRT totally useless.
If you want to help this guy(and I beleive he was looking for advice) you would tell him to stop wasting his time on somethjing obsolete and go with something better, funds permitting.
As for the "obsolete" receiver, it was just a priority, trying to get the best screen available, chasing the new tech that is constantly improving monitors.

If what you say is true, then why did the CRT finish an extremely close second to a Lycos set, but which soundly beat a plasma and LCD in all areas in a test conducted by Displaydata? Surely as good as DLP is is should have beaten the pants off of the CRT, but it didn't. What's up with that?

The DLP WAS a three chip design!

[pixelthis]

If what you say is true, then why did the CRT finish an extremely close second to a Lycos set, but which soundly beat a plasma and LCD in all areas in a test conducted by Displaydata? Surely as good as DLP is is should have beaten the pants off of the CRT, but it didn't. What's up with that?

The DLP WAS a three chip design!

You see, heres the problem you have.
Can you go into a store and buy a crt projector?
Maybe a refurb.
But while I could take a Shelby mustang and beat just about anybody, does that make it a viable canidate for the average buyer?
Doesnt matter if CRT beats the pants off of everything, its low light output, bulkiness,
and other factors make it a noncontender in the field.
ITS DEAD, and in a few years, after the last of the breed burn out, it will be in the history books.
Now, why am I overjoyed at the prospect of this?
Because CRT is at the end of the road, for a long time people didnt have much of a choice except a huge 200 pound display with a minischule 36" screen at best.
If you wanted to you could get a RPTV or FRONT PROJECTOR , BOTH OF WHICH REQUIRED the room to be practically dark.
You may not like it but most dont watch a lot of video in a darkened room, not even you.
Thats for movies and the like, and a lot of people cant afford that much investment
for two hi-res sources, not CRT anyway.
I have messed with CRT since 1980, even earlier, and dont have any romantic
notions about this antique form of video presentation.
Yeah, you can get a great pic, so dim that you can't see it excdept where the room is pitch black, and you and a few other hobbyists are the only ones willing to put up with that.
Its dead, in other words.
AND good riddance.
The new display form factors have room for improvement, they can go places CRT
can never get to, acheive performance you couldnt dream of with a CRT.
When cars came out some horses could out run them , and some used that as an excuse to call them a "fad".
Dont see too many on the streets anymore do you?
Dont guess I should expect you to tell someone to break the link and get a modern
display, something designed to put out some light, not just adapted to it like the CRT was
(it was always intended for direct view, never meant for projecton use)
especially Since you can't break that link yourself.

[E-Stat]

You see, heres the problem you have. Can you go into a store and buy a crt projector?

If you limit your choice to BB or Wal-Mart, that might be true. FWIW, I own two Visios, a Samsung DLP, a Sony LCD and a Magnavox LCD along with two old CRT based TVs. The 61" DLP is clearly the best, but it suffers from a rainbow effect most noticeable during movie credits where the background is completely black.

Doesnt matter if CRT beats the pants off of everything, its low light output, bulkiness,and other factors make it a noncontender in the field.

Except for those who prefer higher performance.

Thats for movies and the like, and a lot of people cant afford that much investment for two hi-res sources, not CRT anyway.

Most folks cannot afford Aston-Martins or Ferraris either. They are not obsolete.

As for me, I consider something obsolete when its performance can be replicated by other means or if it cannot be maintained. Shelby Mustangs are most certainly obsolete because there are any number of cars that outperform it in every respect, especially when it comes to handling where the Falcon based suspension was always incredibly crude. While you likewise consider tube amps obsolete, my preference today would be for a pair of VTL Siegfrieds or ARC 600Ts that can do things that few, if any SS amps can match when the criteria is musical reproduction.

rw

[pixelthis]

Except for those who prefer higher performance.

Except that CRT doesnt have really "higher" performance, not enough to make up for the
huge shortcomings

Most folks cannot afford Aston-Martins or Ferraris either. They are not obsolete.

Of course not, and they are fine cars.
But CRT was always at best a compromise as a projector source, the only reason it held its place was that there was nothing else.
Now there is.

As for me, I consider something obsolete when its performance can be replicated by other means or if it cannot be maintained. Shelby Mustangs are most certainly obsolete because there are any number of cars that outperform it in every respect, especially when it comes to handling where the Falcon based suspension was always incredibly crude. While you likewise consider tube amps obsolete, my preference today would be for a pair of VTL Siegfrieds or ARC 600Ts that can do things that few, if any SS amps can match when the criteria is musical reproduction.

One thing SS amps can't "match" is the harmonic distortion, (that "tube " sound)
and limited power output, and short lifespan.
I know tubes, have worked on tube equipment, and will never understand the romantic attachment some have to tube gear.
CERTAINLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SOUND.
If that is what you like, fine, just don't use "performance" as an excuse.

[E-Stat]

Except that CRT doesnt have really "higher" performance, not enough to make up for the huge shortcomings

So which is it?

One thing SS amps can't "match" is the harmonic distortion, (that "tube " sound) and limited power output, and short lifespan.

Only when your analysis is superficial and does not consider spectra. Distortion of line level tube gear is comparable to solid state. While the distortion of tube amps does exceed 1% for the last 10% or so of its output (where it doesn't spend a lot of time), its spectra falls right into our perceptual blind spot. Limited output? I have 300 watt per channel amps and VTL also makes 1200 watt versions.

CERTAINLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SOUND.

Just curious as to your point of reference. What are the best sounding tube components you've heard in your system?

rw

[JoeE SP9]

E-Stat, if you're ever up my way we should get together. You know, hoist a few, listen to a few. This also applies to the rest of you. If you bring light beer I'll set my neighbors on you.

[E-Stat]

E-Stat, if you're ever up my way we should get together. You know, hoist a few, listen to a few. This also applies to the rest of you. If you bring light beer I'll set my neighbors on you.

My pleasure. I spent three very formative years growing up in Springfield off State Rd back in the early 60s.

rw

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

So which is it?


Only when your analysis is superficial and does not consider spectra. Distortion of line level tube gear is comparable to solid state. While the distortion of tube amps does exceed 1% for the last 10% or so of its output (where it doesn't spend a lot of time), its spectra falls right into our perceptual blind spot. Limited output? I have 300 watt per channel amps and VTL also makes 1200 watt versions.


Just curious as to your point of reference. What are the best sounding tube components you've heard in your system?

rw

E, the problem with Pix's perspective is that it is based on the single tube CRT television, and not high resolution CRT based front projection based systems that could do 1080p long before the flat panel ever came to the consumer market.

When you look at the fact those CRT's front projectors were first introduced in 1999, and the first 1080p LCD and Plasmas some five years later, we actually went backwards in resolution for the convience of having flat panel sets. To this day when testing is done on all display devices from LCD to CRT, the Sony professional CRT monitor still trumps every flat panel on the market except for a Lycos based monitor that is used for professional QC. Even that model could not best the old CRT for contrast and color accuracy, but ever so slightly beat in black levels.

When you start off as low as Pix does, you can fully understand his opinion. When you have been drinking from the trough of mass market all of your life, that is where you derive your opinions. He has no experience with anything higher than mass market, and that is why he makes the outrageous statements he does.

We go to the movies, and the movie theater is completely dark. Anything less compresses the contrast, and takes it out of SMPTE standards. When you are at home, and have a properly calibrated set, it looks like crap in a lit room, which is why movies should be watch in a completely dark room. The director saw the film properly presented in a dark room, he edits in a dark room, the color is corrected in a dark room, the color timing is established in a dark room, so we should probably watch it in a dark room if we want to realize what the director truly wanted you to see. Just try and see shadow detail in a movie in a lit room, and you will be looking for it forever even though it is there when viewed properly.

Just consider the source, and relax and go have a beer.

[E-Stat]

E, the problem with Pix's perspective is that it is based on the single tube CRT television, and not high resolution CRT based front projection based systems that could do 1080p long before the flat panel ever came to the consumer market.

Before replacing it with a newer three gun Sony unit, Harry Pearson had a Barco projector that was pretty impressive. It did, however, require low lighting for the best result.

the Sony professional CRT monitor still trumps every flat panel on the market except for a Lycos based monitor that is used for professional QC.

No doubt.

When you start off as low as Pix does, you can fully understand his opinion.

I do not understand why folks reject the experience of that which is possible.

When you are at home, and have a properly calibrated set, it looks like crap in a lit room, which is why movies should be watch in a completely dark room. The director saw the film properly presented in a dark room, he edits in a dark room, the color is corrected in a dark room, the color timing is established in a dark room,...

You're preaching to the choir here. I always watch the DLP with all lights off.

Just consider the source, and relax and go have a beer.

Cheers!

rw

[pixelthis]

E, the problem with Pix's perspective is that it is based on the single tube CRT television, and not high resolution CRT based front projection based systems that could do 1080p long before the flat panel ever came to the consumer market.

When you look at the fact those CRT's front projectors were first introduced in 1999, and the first 1080p LCD and Plasmas some five years later, we actually went backwards in resolution for the convience of having flat panel sets. To this day when testing is done on all display devices from LCD to CRT, the Sony professional CRT monitor still trumps every flat panel on the market except for a Lycos based monitor that is used for professional QC. Even that model could not best the old CRT for contrast and color accuracy, but ever so slightly beat in black levels.

When you start off as low as Pix does, you can fully understand his opinion. When you have been drinking from the trough of mass market all of your life, that is where you derive your opinions. He has no experience with anything higher than mass market, and that is why he makes the outrageous statements he does.

We go to the movies, and the movie theater is completely dark. Anything less compresses the contrast, and takes it out of SMPTE standards. When you are at home, and have a properly calibrated set, it looks like crap in a lit room, which is why movies should be watch in a completely dark room. The director saw the film properly presented in a dark room, he edits in a dark room, the color is corrected in a dark room, the color timing is established in a dark room, so we should probably watch it in a dark room if we want to realize what the director truly wanted you to see. Just try and see shadow detail in a movie in a lit room, and you will be looking for it forever even though it is there when viewed properly.

Just consider the source, and relax and go have a beer.

Gee, does your nose get frostbite stuck up in the air that high?
WHAT A SNOB.
AND that is all CRT has going for it.
I am not considering direct view CRT, JUST SAYING that direct view is what CRT
was originally intended for, it had to be engineered to the nines to get enough light output
to even be seen in a dark room, its just not made for front projection.
And an eagle couldnt see the "differences" you state, you need a lab and a bank of expensive equipment for that.
Its minuses detract from its very small pluses, about all its good for now is to make
old farts feel superiour to the great unwased, salving their fragil egos.
Kinda expensive way to make yourself feel better than the "masses".
ESPECIALLY when the reality is much saddere, they just dont care, for that matter most
HT types don't care either.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Gee, does your nose get frostbite stuck up in the air that high?
WHAT A SNOB.
AND that is all CRT has going for it.
I am not considering direct view CRT, JUST SAYING that direct view is what CRT
was originally intended for, it had to be engineered to the nines to get enough light output
to even be seen in a dark room, its just not made for front projection.
And an eagle couldnt see the "differences" you state, you need a lab and a bank of expensive equipment for that.
Its minuses detract from its very small pluses, about all its good for now is to make
old farts feel superiour to the great unwased, salving their fragil egos.
Kinda expensive way to make yourself feel better than the "masses".
ESPECIALLY when the reality is much saddere, they just dont care, for that matter most
HT types don't care either.

Back to the old single gun CRT. See, that is the extent of your viewpoint.