Audionote discussion

[djluke]

Hello

I noticed an old audionote discussion going on, with a lengthy responce from Peter at AN UK.

Can I just put my comments down here.

I have been spend years swopping hi-fi components, and generally enjoying listening to music. It seems to me that the listening is the thing here. And my personal experience of Audionote products is 'THEY ARE ONE OF THE BEST MANUFACTURERS OF HIGH END AUDIO - PERIOD'

How many products truly fullfil the goal, in forgetting the technology and enjoying the music. The recent posts slipped into politics and negatives. Over the years we have all seen many maufactures vanish, Wharfedale, Garrard to name two. And the current obssession with 'theatre systems' has split the markets up. Ok, hi-end theatre is exciting, but how many can really afford the quality levels we are talking about in stereo land. Audionote have suceeded in sticking to their philosophy of hi-end, accurate and more important 'livable' sound. I have many friends who have Audionote products, and will not change brands. Indeed many 'drop out' of the hi-fi world because they are one thing 'satisfied' and see no need to change anything.
This surely is the ultimate goal, satisfaction in the music. I will buy more Audionote stuff as soon as I can afford it, no matter how long I have to wait...

Julian
Leeds
England

[kexodusc]

I don't think many will question the fine products AN produces (well, I'm only familiar with the speakers and a few pieces of electronics). I've been impressed with every AN speaker I've heard except the AX models.
Just another excellent choice and different flavor for people to look into.

[theaudiohobby]

Audio Note is just one of many...and many have found nirvana in other brands, and some after trying Audio Note.

[topspeed]

Glad you like AN. We all strive to find satisfaction, and if Peter's stuff does it for you, more power to ya! My only concern is that you appear to have closed your mind to all of the available options. Understand there is no perfect speaker, no perfect amp, no perfect anything. This rings particularly true in a hobby as subjective as audio. This is a hobby, and unless you have heard every single speaker and front end combo out there, I'm worried you may miss something. That, my friend, would be a shame.

[RGA]

I sent you a private message.

[Jim Clark]

. This is a hobby, and unless you have heard every single speaker and front end combo out there, I'm worried you may miss something. That, my friend, would be a shame.

Speedy, that's a semi - scary comment. There are any number of people for whom the hobby is simply watching movies in the family room or listening to tuneage in the study. "The show is the thing", you know what I mean? Of course there's always going to be something better but so what? I'd think that for many the stated to goal is to get there as far as gear goes. Once there, it should be celebrated because then thoughts of equipment and god forbid power cords, cables, and other ancillary crap can cease and the focus can be directed 100% where it belongs - on the music. Everyone's threshold is going to be different based on any number of criterea but the goal is always the same, to enjoy the music. One thing I know for certain is that even the poorest souls caught up in the death spiral of audiophillia aren't going to be able to listen to "every single speaker and front end combo out there" and why should they want to.

jc

[GMichael]

I sent you a private message.

Glad to see your post RGA. Some of us were worried about you.

[topspeed]

Speedy, that's a semi - scary comment. There are any number of people for whom the hobby is simply watching movies in the family room or listening to tuneage in the study. "The show is the thing", you know what I mean? Of course there's always going to be something better but so what? I'd think that for many the stated to goal is to get there as far as gear goes. Once there, it should be celebrated because then thoughts of equipment and god forbid power cords, cables, and other ancillary crap can cease and the focus can be directed 100% where it belongs - on the music. Everyone's threshold is going to be different based on any number of criterea but the goal is always the same, to enjoy the music. One thing I know for certain is that even the poorest souls caught up in the death spiral of audiophillia aren't going to be able to listen to "every single speaker and front end combo out there" and why should they want to.

jc

Agreed. The music is absolutely the goal and upon reflection, I could have chosen my wording more succintly. My concern was the close-minded tone of the OP, although I may be misreading it. I'm not in the camp that believes there are any absolutes in this world. There are no world references. There is no "best" at anything. There is a "best" to you, which is fine, but that may not hold true for everybody. We both like VSA's, but I'll be the first to say the mighty $160k VR11's don't impress me nearly as much as Wilson's WP7's, which cost 1/6 the price.

I may be a bit different than most on this board in that I hold no allegiances to any company or their culture. In my mind, it's within most competent company's ability to make one or two truly outstanding products, but this doesn't necessarily hold true across the entire portfolio.

[RGA]

Agreed. The music is absolutely the goal and upon reflection, I could have chosen my wording more succintly. My concern was the close-minded tone of the OP, although I may be misreading it. I'm not in the camp that believes there are any absolutes in this world. There are no world references. There is no "best" at anything. There is a "best" to you, which is fine, but that may not hold true for everybody. We both like VSA's, but I'll be the first to say the mighty $160k VR11's don't impress me nearly as much as Wilson's WP7's, which cost 1/6 the price.

I may be a bit different than most on this board in that I hold no allegiances to any company or their culture. In my mind, it's within most competent company's ability to make one or two truly outstanding products, but this doesn't necessarily hold true across the entire portfolio.

I'm not sure that "'THEY ARE ONE OF THE BEST MANUFACTURERS" constitutes a closed minded tone. "One of the" is not stating "the" in an absolute way. The poster has not said what else he has heard but certainly doesn't imply that he has no experience. Quite the contrary in fact.

Most of the people who buy AN from Soundhounds are much older audiophiles who have been in the audiophile upgrade game for many many years and not typically 20 somethings. Terry noted that AN is typically the destination his customers get to after owning the other stuff he has ever carried. I agree with you though on your main point about the best being applicable to you or the person auditioning and not some absolute. I could totally understand for instance someone choosing the Reference 3a Mm De Capo over the similarly priced AN K/Spe - or for that matter the Magnepan 1.6 or B&W N805. Not everyone buys things the same way or values the same things in music reproduction.

[JohnMichael]

Glad to see your post RGA. Some of us were worried about you.

I second that sentiment.

[theaudiohobby]

I'm not sure that "'THEY ARE ONE OF THE BEST MANUFACTURERS" constitutes a closed minded tone. "One of the" is not stating "the" in an absolute way. The poster has not said what else he has heard but certainly doesn't imply that he has no experience. Quite the contrary in fact.

Most of the people who buy AN from Soundhounds are much older audiophiles who have been in the audiophile upgrade game for many many years and not typically 20 somethings. Terry noted that AN is typically the destination his customers get to after owning the other stuff he has ever carried. I agree with you though on your main point about the best being applicable to you or the person auditioning and not some absolute. I could totally understand for instance someone choosing the Reference 3a Mm De Capo over the similarly priced AN K/Spe - or for that matter the Magnepan 1.6 or B&W N805. Not everyone buys things the same way or values the same things in music reproduction.

One thing is sure, Audio Note UK has a much bigger profile across the Atlantic, I suppose in a sea of Quads, Naims, Linns, Burmesters, YBA, Pathos and Revox to name a few, AN is lost, I recall that Walrus (the only London dealer that carried the brand) dropped it, I never asked the reason why, but I am sure it is not because of looks because some of the obscure brands they carry are also ugly , the 2nd values of ANUK products over here is very weak compared to the US, this does not necessarily correlate with the sound quality but it reflects the perceived market value of the products which is low.

[Bernd]

Hi,
I am glad we all understand now that there really is no world reference or best anything.
But did it need all that agro before on the other posts.
I did own, for a while, an Audio Note Cd spinner 2.1 I think. Wasn't bad at all. Build quality was poor though but it sounded good.
I am always amazed how brands have very varied profiles in different countries. Why do you think that is?
Enjoy the music.

Bernd

P.S.GMichael-thanks the B.T.O. is back.

[GMichael]

.GMichael-thanks the B.T.O. is back.

Anytime. Sorry it took so long. There must be something wrong with my remote.

[RGA]

One thing is sure, Audio Note UK has a much bigger profile across the Atlantic, I suppose in a sea of Quads, Naims, Linns, Burmesters, YBA, Pathos and Revox to name a few, AN is lost, I recall that Walrus (the only London dealer that carried the brand) dropped it, I never asked the reason why, but I am sure it is not because of looks because some of the obscure brands they carry are also ugly , the 2nd values of ANUK products over here is very weak compared to the US, this does not necessarily correlate with the sound quality but it reflects the perceived market value of the products which is low.

Yes I know a fellow who bought K/B speakers in the early 1990's he had them for 12 years and then sold them for exactly what he paid for them brand spanking new. Granted there is a buying power factor of the dollar to be considered but that's still pretty good. And the K's went up in price so buyers would see the K/B as a relative deal.

When you don't advertise, your gear is not cheap, your stuff is ugly, you don't do home theater or even provide the option (as in a center speaker) and when the owner of the company turns down dealers and pulls his lines from dealers who turn out to be shady then unlike some who will let anyone with a shop window sell it then you are not going to be "big." This dealer started by two audiophile dealers carries them in England http://www.noteworthyaudio.co.uk/index.html

And Bose is on every corner too so what is your point? A dealer in Vancouver is now selling Bose and dropped one of their higher end lines for it because Sales quantity still rules the day. Soundhounds in Victoria has been there 30 years - it's one of the wealthiest most intellectual regions in Canada - they sell more AN than anything else they carry including Naim or Bryston(which carries a 20 year warranty is cheaper is more user friendly has way more power and way more "reviews").

It took Soundhounds over 2 years patiently waiting for the stuff to start selling(they like Creek and tell me it sells very very badly to such a degree that the owner has told his staff to mention the whole name Creek Audio rather than just say Creek because it sounds like a an un-oiled door and nobody wants to spend money on an audio componant that even hints at an un-oiled door) Anyway so many people are so tied to magazine reviews and visual cues. Even I did not go solely by what I heard. I listened and felt it was by an order of magnitude better than anything else his shop sold (He has driopped ML, Totem, and the B&W N801 since carrying the AN line of speakers - that does not necessarily mean it was strictly sound quality - it could be the physical size of the speakers) ----- Being a Multiple magazine subscriber at the time (I no longer am a subscriber at all) I wanted to know about them as a company and to make sure they were big enough to be able to support a warranty. I asked questions on forums AA because there were few reviews. So even though I liked the sound better I did not buy them I did some looking on the net and as time passes there is a big chance people won't go back to buy - still the number of "sales" at Soundhounds versus a dealer or manufacturer pulling a line has zero influence on whether an individual going into a store is going to "like" it or not.

Soundhounds is willing to wait on brands that don't sell well but which they think is very good and they are big enough to be patient because they carry a bucket load of stuff. They carry the big name gear that sells very well so they can support Creek Audio and Audio Note. The fact that Soundhounds dropped Totem and Martin Logan in a store where people spend $69,000.00+ on Audio Note Preamplifiers and sell $30k versions of the speakers in not so rare a number can cetainly support N801 and Totem Mani 2 sales. The fact that they dropped those two other brands does not mean those two other brands suck which is what you try to imply. (An just as easily could have been dropped if people had no corners to put things in or don;t want the hassle of tubes) If you're a small dealer and the stuff isn;t selling right away you MUST drop them if you want to eat. There is a high end dealer not too far from here but he is now selling tv's and style systems because his beloved ideal to sell high end crashed down on him and now he is selling The usual suspects and any big name thing that will sell well without any listening sessions needing to be involved. In the UK AN will set the stuff up in prospective customers homes.

The bottom line is simply that you either like it or you do not - just like anything in life - I can't convince someone to like Dark Mint Chocoloate like I do -- they may not like mint or chocolate or both. Or they may like it but they like the kind from belgium more than the kind from Quebec.

[GMichael]

I was following until you got to the chocolate part. Who doesn't love chocolate? Who are they and where do they come from?

[Jim Clark]

I was following until you got to the chocolate part. Who doesn't love chocolate? Who are they and where do they come from?

Dark chocolate - yuck.

jc

[GMichael]

Dark chocolate - yuck.

jc

Just have a big glass of milk near by. It's all good.

[RGA]

Yeah but then you have to agree on the milk - chocolat milk, 2%, whole, Lactose free, skim, or that pink milk that passes itself off as strawberry.

[GMichael]

Yeah but then you have to agree on the milk - chocolat milk, 2%, whole, Lactose free, skim, or that pink milk that passes itself off as strawberry.

Oh my G.d! Life is so complicated. I should end it all. But what way? Jump off a bridge? Throw myself in front of a bus? Oh, I know, listen to music until I die of old age!

[Bernd]

Hi,
I agree with RGA on his last post. I too was a magazine subsriber for many years and that did influence me in the past. I did change when a good dealer friend of mine meet me at a HiFi show and pointed out how some manufacturer handed over a suspicious looking envelope to a well known reviewer. Subscription cancelled.
I am now only getting HiFi+ which to my mind is the best read around. No silly tests or tables, just info and great in depth reviews.
My present system has been bought solely on listening. And you are right some dealers will sell anything to make a sale. It is veery difficult to find a true honest dealer who put's the music first. I am lucky to have found one of those.
Chocolate ahhh. My son eats that horrible milky stuff that passes itself of for chocolate. My vice is "Valrhona" anything by them.
But then each to their own. I never even tried to convert him. I learned the hard way people like what they like.

Enjoy the music

Bernd

[theaudiohobby]

Hi,
I agree with RGA on his last post. I too was a magazine subsriber for many years and that did influence me in the past. I did change when a good dealer friend of mine meet me at a HiFi show and pointed out how some manufacturer handed over a suspicious looking envelope to a well known reviewer. Subscription cancelled.
I am now only getting HiFi+ which to my mind is the best read around. No silly tests or tables, just info and great in depth reviews.

HiFi+, good prose, poetry and pictures but as a magazine for accurately capturing the sound of equipment, if fails completely. It is also very inconsistent, a trait it share with Hi-Fi Choice which is none too surprising since they share a number of writers. Personally, I think that Stereophile runs rings round both magazines when it comes to the business at hand, that is, describing the sound of a component. I hate ambiguity and there have been times that I almost feel like screaming in anger whilst reading HiFi+, it can be damn annoying when writers resort to self-contradictory poetry, of which Roy Gregory is a big culprit.

Ethics, I do not know enough and as a rule I do not subscribe to the grapevine, much too unreliable for me.

[Bernd]

That's exactly what I was talking about. Here are two of us and both have different opnions. I tried Stereophile and it is not for me. I also read for years HiFi News. I have stopped, as in my opnion, it has gone completley "Tabloid".
I like Hifi+ but it is used here purley as reading matter not in any shape or form will it influence my buying decisions.
I don't believe in Gossip either, and I need to see or experience anything before I act.

Enjoy the music

Bernd

[theaudiohobby]

Yes I know a fellow who bought K/B speakers in the early 1990's he had them for 12 years and then sold them for exactly what he paid for them brand spanking new. Granted there is a buying power factor of the dollar to be considered but that's still pretty good. And the K's went up in price so buyers would see the K/B as a relative deal.

When you don't advertise, your gear is not cheap, your stuff is ugly, you don't do home theater or even provide the option (as in a center speaker) and when the owner of the company turns down dealers and pulls his lines from dealers who turn out to be shady then unlike some who will let anyone with a shop window sell it then you are not going to be "big." This dealer started by two audiophile dealers carries them in England http://www.noteworthyaudio.co.uk/index.html


--SNIP--

You have me in hysterics here , I said that Audio Note (UK) has no dealer in London, Noteworthy Audio is certainly in England but not in London, Audio Note is most certainly a stronger brand in NA than England or Europe.

[Mr Peabody]

I do like my Krell but I have to give credit where it is due. I recently purchased an Audio Note 1.1x DAC and since I've put it into my system it gets most of the play. RGA was correct when he told me once I listened to the AN it might become the preferred DAC over the Krell. The Krell still has it's strong points but the AN is more natural sounding and does involve me more in the music. I would love to get more AN equipment but I would have to convert my entire system because Audio Note's amps are so low powered. I haven't heard AN speakers but at this point I refuse to let go of my Dynaudio. Maybe I could get an AN preamp but I'd still have to match it with a power amp. I've heard AN don't mix well with some other brands. It does fine in my system, I guess I got lucky. And again, it is only the source.....

You have to admire the owner of AN for sticking with his guns. Why do home theater if it's not your area of expertise? That's a mass market thing, where a company tries to be all things to everyone. Audio Note is clearly a company for those who enjoy fine 2 channel music reproduction. I heard a story from the CES show where the owner had all his extremely expensive gear set up to show but he played these old 78's on the system. I also understand he has one of the world's largest collections of vinyl.

It does take time to get a line to take off in a new market. You also have to do your best to educate the public. I remember years ago going into a shop hear in town and hearing of and listening to Arcam for the first time and now it has become a well known brand most every where.

[Mr Peabody]

By the way, any one have any experience with the Audio Note cables?