Toshiba Cinema Series 52HMX84... ?

[stan2]

i did a search on this board.. no reviews popped up. anyone see any reason not to go for this in the 52" category? the cinema series is tosh's best. it has 2 hdmi inputs; HD2+ chip. $2800 or so. considerably less than mitsu's new line of HD2+ 52"sets. toshiba has always been reliable around my house. what do you guys think? time to pull the trigger?

[edtyct]

Hi Stan,

I have absolutely no personal experience with this TV, but it seems to hold up well among the recent DLPs. So long as you're not troubled by the rainbow effect, and you've done your basic research on price and features, it sounds like a winner. The main reason that I'm replying to your query is nostalgic. Like you, I have had a happy history with Toshiba's sets. Before the advent of digital monitors, I had a rare widescreen analog Toshiba rear-projection CRT that I still recall with fondness. When high-definition RPTVs first hit, the Toshibas were among the most respected on the market for color and greyscale (when calibrated), and I was highly pleased with mine. Granted, things change, but nothing that I've encountered leads me to believe that the Toshiba DLPs are to be avoided. So it gets one semi-informed vote from me, for what it's worth. At least my post can mark time until someone with a little more info comes along.

Ed

[misterq4u]

Toshiba is the way to go. Sony is only slightly above in terms of features.
PQ is no less than Sony.
I know about Toshiba since 1984.

http://www.audioreview.com/TVs%2032%20inch%20and%20above/Toshiba/PRD_330064_2725_1719132crx.aspx

[jocko_nc]

I have been watching one for a couple of months now. Great set. I thought it was superior to the other makes.

You may want to look into the "other" 52 inch set. I think it same model number except for the "X". Look closely, there is no difference except for the extra HDMI input. It should be $300 less.

jocko

[Mr Peabody]

I have the Toshiba 64" DLP and I am happy with it. I'd say save yourself some money and get the non-Cinema series. The only difference is the Cinema series has one more HDMI input and it's black around the screen. I actually like the black around the screen but not enough to pass on the savings. And I don't want to get on my soapbox again but HDMI is nothing to get excited about, it's a glorified digital version of the old RF connector at this point. If you pull the trigger you might check www.crutchfield.com they were offering free stand with the purchase + no sales tax & possibly free delivery. I paid $24.95 delivery because of the size but it was still a third of what the local stores charged.

I use the component input and my DVD's progressive scan and the picture is awesome. The factory picture settings have the contrast jacked up but the TV allows your own personal settings. You also have the option of setting the internal light to bright or a lesser setting to save life. I thought The Toshiba was one of the best out there. The JVC DILA was close but I got a lot larger screen for the same money by going with the Toshiba.

[aRHT]

i did a search on this board.. no reviews popped up. anyone see any reason not to go for this in the 52" category? the cinema series is tosh's best. it has 2 hdmi inputs; HD2+ chip. $2800 or so. considerably less than mitsu's new line of HD2+ 52"sets. toshiba has always been reliable around my house. what do you guys think? time to pull the trigger?

hi everyone. this is my first post on this board and i just wanted to jump into this conversation (hope you dont mind). I've been in the hunt for a new large tv and have been considering this tv also. i'm graduating from a 27inch panasonic gaoo which i've loved for its clarity, sharpness and blacklevels, so basically i'm still a crt person and find that the larger screen tvs all lack in competing head to head with the old crts in terms of that, so i'm really picky about all the large format display technologies currently out.

my first choice for a dlp would be the Panasonic PT-50DL54 DLP (or 42inch model). i found its picture to be genuinely pleasing in terms of sharpness and black levels. the toshiba 52 inch is an almost equivalent tv but i found the picture to be a bit softer and a bit more "messy" overall compared to the panasonic and other dlps.

the biggest hold back for me is when viewing these sets with a non HD signal such as dvd (i cant afford HD tv programming for a while). the picture clarity and sharpness drop quite a bit (as to be expected) but when viewing a dvd on the toshiba set, i found it to be a good deal less pleasing than the panasonic. toshiba is offering 52 and 62inch sets that are selling at a couple hundred dollars lower than their competitors. do they see this performance difference also? for the price its selling for this is a great tv but i'm just wondering whether toshiba is clearing out this line becuze of something better coming out soon or there being an inherent flaw in its picture quality that doesnt allow it to compete with the other equivalent sets out there?

here are some review of both sets:
http://www.dlptvreview.com/dlptvrevi...-pt50dl54.html
http://www.dlptvreview.com/dlptvrevi...hibadlptv.html

how does one go about evaluating these sets in store as most of the big box outlets dont do any calibrating and i've viewed the same sets in diff stores and found that sometimes one looks better than the other, but go someplace else the reverse is true. also how do you evaluate the sets performance based on different sources? do you walk with your own dvds? just wondering since i'll have to do this myself when the time comes.

I'm also considering some of samsungs dlps and sony's wega lcd series. hope someone can shed some more light on this.

[edtyct]

You've put your finger on a major problem with buying many consumer-electronics items--the inability to make firsthand comparisons. In the case of TVs, bringing a DVD is a good idea, but if you can't get to a DVD player or to the set's basic adjustments, it won't do you any good. The best place to get the kind of attention that you want is a higher-end AV salon, the kind that actually calibrates their monitors and invites scrutiny. Unfortunately, they tend to have limited offerings and require top dollar. For services rendered, they deserve the big bucks in my opinion, but not everybody can afford them, and not everybody has such venues in their area. Somewhere down the line, even most educated consumers have to trust someone with a supposedly objective view--either on a board like this one, in a magazine, or in a store. I don't know where you're located, but a solid mid-level chain like Tweeter will also allow customers to tinker with the showroom units.

I was reading Randy Tomlinson's (an ISF calibrator who writes for TPV) review of the Toshiba 52HM84, which was basically complimentary but had some reservations about the set's handling of the greyscale and about excessive edge enhancement via HDMI, which detracted from performance where, as Tomlinson put it, "big potential should lie." (Unlike Mr. Peabody above, I, and many others, get very excited by the look of DVD and HD via DVI and HDMI on microdisplays.) However, the Toshiba received good grades for high-definition programming and standard cable broadcasts, which it apparently handles with great aplomb. Concerning grey scale, however, the Toshiba appears to be a slightly anomalous DLP, given its washed-out blacks. But, as you say, nothing at this point is going to beat a good CRT, whether rear-projection or direct view, for the kind of inky primordial darkness that most of us know and love. If it weren't for the convenience factor in the microdisplays' favor, CRT might still be king, though I don't think that CRT always deliver the kind of window-on-the-world three dimensionality that the best fixed-pixel displays can. Now, if the impending slimline CRTs can do the job that 9-inch CRTs have done in the past, just maybe CRTs will get a new lease on life, at least for a while with a few companies. But it remains to be seen how drastic cuts in cabinet size will affect their one trump card.

By the way, the Samsung DLPs can look stunning, with very good blacks. The Sony Wega LCDs have come a long way in that regard, but no one will mistake them for CRTs. Pictures at average brightness levels and higher, however, like sporting events, Discovery HD, et al. are absolutely beautiful on them. I've never seen the screen-door effect on the later generations, nor any hint of false contouring. Again, low light levels will bring out artifacts on both these sets. The picture that you will see on them in most mass- market electronic stores, however, may look too bright, but they won't totally misrepresent their strong suits. Personally, I could live with the black levels on a Sony LCD; not everyone could.

Ed

[randking]

Just don't get a Zenith. Whatever you do.

[Mr Peabody]

When comparing you'd almost have to carry around your own DVD movie and player. I didn't do that but I did go into the menu of the TV's I was considering to check the settings. You have to do that at least. Take the Toshiba, for instance, one store may have the picture set to "sports" so you see a big bright picture and another may have it set to "cinema" which gives the TV a much darker picture. Someone else may have looked at it before you and put their own adjust on it. I guess there is some peace of mind in knowing the TV should look better in your home than the best picture you get at the store.

[aRHT]

I was reading Randy Tomlinson's (an ISF calibrator who writes for TPV) review of the Toshiba 52HM84, which was basically complimentary but had some reservations about the set's handling of the greyscale and about excessive edge enhancement via HDMIEd

do you hav a link to this review? i wuldnt mind reading it. i'mstill interested in this set. i keep going back to my local mass market chain which has a demo unit with a "crack on it" going for the same price as a new 52inch model with stand (dont understand that). wen i talkd to the sales rep he said they would drop the price even more for me. i tinkered with the set again, watching Finding Nemo being played through a sony progressive scan dvdplayer. i still wasnt too impressed with the picture until i physically walked around to
the back of the tv and flipped a switch to throw the dvd player into progessive scan mode.
the edges improved a lot and i found the picture much more pleasing. i culdnt tell too much about the muddy black levels or greyscale in the overly lit store. I'm also conidering the 50 inch lcd version of the panasonic dlp set which they are selling the demo off at $2999ca. any opinions on this set vs the toshiba? to me, the panasonic is sharper overall and has an additional pc input which the toshiba lacks but the toshiba packs 2inches more screen. would anyone here consider a floor demo? bad idea?

But, as you say, nothing at this point is going to beat a good CRT, whether rear-projection or direct view, for the kind of inky primordial darkness that most of us know and love. If it weren't for the convenience factor in the microdisplays' favor, CRT might still be king, though I don't think that CRT always deliver the kind of window-on-the-world three dimensionality that the best fixed-pixel displays can. Now, if the impending slimline CRTs can do the job that 9-inch CRTs have done in the past, just maybe CRTs will get a new lease on life, at least for a while with a few companies. But it remains to be seen how drastic cuts in cabinet size will affect their one trump card.
Ed

thats the only thing holding me back from getting another crt. size and wieght of the cabinet. but right now i'm considering getting a good 34inch widescreen crt (either a sony or pansonic) and then going with a dlp front projector for movies. the crt will be good for gaming and critical movie watching and tv. but for a movie theatre like evening, nothing can come close to the screen size of a front projector. but i'll be giving up a lot in terms of colour, contrast, clarity and sharpness... or will i? i've read so many good things about front
projection but there's so few places for me to see them. the biggest plus for them, i can carry my front projector under my arm when i move.this seem to be my best bet as i'm still not completely happy with all the microdisplays, yet front projection is even more lacking interms of the things i want? i'm so torn about what to go with right now.

The picture that you will see on them in most mass- market electronic stores, however, may look too bright, but they won't totally misrepresent their strong suits. Personally, I could live with the black levels on a Sony LCD; not everyone could.
Ed

theres so many choices to make.each technology has its good and bad yet none fit my criteria completely. I love the (apparent?) sharpness of sony lcds but am worried about their black levels where as the panasoinc dlp seem to get colours and black levels right and i honestly havent heard as many raves for the sony lcds as the panasonic dlps.I guess i have to wait.

[jocko_nc]

What's amazing to me is how lousy DVD's are. Even the "best" DVD's look pretty crappy as compared to a true HD signal. We can go round and round about which display is better, but the point is moot. The real shortcoming is the quality of the signal, DVD's included. If you are trying to use cable, don't even think about it.

From what I have seen, there are only a couple of truly HD channel being broadcast right now, particularly Discovery HD. Not only is the broadcast HD, more importantly, the material being broadcast is HD. It was filmed and produced in HD. ESPN HD is mediocre at best. Duh, the video they play during Sportscenter was made for cable broadcast and sucks. Most of the movies I have seen broadcast in HD are nowhere near maximum resolution. Much nicer than DVD, but not outstanding, I think the source is limited. Take a look at a good program on Discovery HD and see what these displays are capable of. It is flat-out amazing.

The only thing that is lacking right now is good HD content. Nature programs are going to become more popular!

jocko

[edtyct]

do you hav a link to this review? I'm also conidering the 50 inch lcd version of the panasonic dlp set which they are selling the demo off at $2999ca. any opinions on this set vs the toshiba? to me, the panasonic is sharper overall and has an additional pc input which the toshiba lacks but the toshiba packs 2inches more screen. would anyone here consider a floor demo? bad idea?

right now i'm considering getting a good 34inch widescreen crt (either a sony or pansonic) and then going with a dlp front projector for movies. the crt will be good for gaming and critical movie watching and tv. but for a movie theatre like evening, nothing can come close to the screen size of a front projector. but i'll be giving up a lot in terms of colour, contrast, clarity and sharpness... or will i? i've read so many good things about front
projection but there's so few places for me to see them. the biggest plus for them, i can carry my front projector under my arm when i move.this seem to be my best bet as i'm still not completely happy with all the microdisplays, yet front projection is even more lacking interms of the things i want? i'm so torn about what to go with right now.

theres so many choices to make.each technology has its good and bad yet none fit my criteria completely. I love the (apparent?) sharpness of sony lcds but am worried about their black levels where as the panasoinc dlp seem to get colours and black levels right and i honestly havent heard as many raves for the sony lcds as the panasonic dlps.I guess i have to wait.

(1) The Perfect Vision's site is called AV Guide, I believe. The print issue with the Toshiba review, bundled with a comparison to the Sony KDF-55XS955 LCD, is #59 Jan/Feb 2005. You can purchase it at the site for $3.50. You pretty much know what you're getting with an LCD, so far as picture is concerned. In general, their blacks suffer relative to DLPs, but so much depends on execution. Plus, price and features can place any degree of difference in this respect in altogether different perspective. We can make it seem like TVs that don't quite measure up in some relative sense are going to make us terribly unhappy. In my own case, I totally appreciate the strengths of a good CRT, but I now own an LCD rear- projection set that follows on the heels of three HD CRTs (one a Sony direct-view) and a plasma. For some of the viewing I do, the Sony LCD is hands-down the most satisfying of them all. Not everyone would feel the same way, but for my viewing habits of mainly well-lit HD material, it's great. The odd black-challenged film doesn't freak me out at all. Regarding floor demos, I'm sure there are people on this site who've had good and bad experiences with them. My feeling is if the price is right, the warranty is in place, and a thorough inspection of the set doesn't turn up any deal-breaking problems, go for it. Make sure that the store will pick it up within a specified amount of time if something goes wrong.

(2) Gee, if you can afford two displays to cover your situation, more power to you. I love the 34 inch Sony XBR. Back a couple of generations, it had trouble delivering both high resolution and brightness, but not any more. My only problem with it is that after seeing a larger display, my eyes are a little disappointed with the size. If it's for situational viewing, as in a bedroom, that's one thing, but if it is on a level playing field with another widescreen option, like a front projector, I'd tend toward the larger screen every time. In fact, with the proper space, lighting, screen, viewing habits, and connected equipment, a front projector seems to me the superior option, pure and simple. Front projection is always a degree of difference better than rear projection in every respect, and, for my money, you aren't giving up anything in color, contrast, and clarity, assuming that you've chosen one that fits your needs, and that your room is properly dim. Get a handle on exactly what it is that disappoints you with microdisplays, and you may well be able to find a fixed-pixel, or even a secondhand CRT, projector that flips your skirt. The video press, like The Perfect Vision, Widescreen Review, Ultimate AV (now online only), et al., dedicates a great deal of space to front projection. I think that you may be shortchanging it. I shoiuld tell you that I don't game, however.

(3) If you're leaning toward DLP, and many people do, I don't believe that sharpness will be a problem vis a vis a Sony Grand Wega. In fact, certain characteristics of Sony sets are genuinely annoying, like no independent programming per input and no direct selection of input. The most trying thing about audio/video, to my mind, is agonizing about what to buy. Every imperfection seems like the road to a regrettable mistake. But the truth is that once you reconcile to the fact that imperfection and compromise are the rules of the game, you can be pretty damn happy once you pull the trigger on a purchase. Very few displays that an educated, serious consumer will select will result in anything but unadulterated joy. True, those of us with this particular enthusiasm are always on the lookout for something new and better, but tempering that impulse with appreciation for what you actually worked hard to obtain will certainly pay dividends. If you don't mind my saying so, you seem like just the kind of person who'll go through the agony of making a decision and will come out of it with a very satisfying piece of equipment.

Ed